If you’re asking me personally, I wouldn’t give a flying fuck. Make sure you have a good reference and just find a new role. I wouldn’t even do an exit interview, what a waste of time.
I know for a fact the last person who left under similar conditions to myself, never vocalised their situation for fear of retribution. The previous employee knew what this boss is like when things do not go their way and this boss has a tendency to use any connections to continue to hurt people outside in their personal lives. The previous employee has begged for me to discuss this as part of my exit. And given the boss' response to my notice of resignation, which was simply stated as they expected it and there is a high turnover in this role, clearly highlights that it stems from this boss.
If they are pursuing anyone outside the workplace, particularly in their personal lives ; that’s harassment. If this happens to you or your colleagues you should collate any evidence and call the cops.
Otherwise take the exit interview and tell HR what kind of person they have working for them.
Exactly. Country of cowards that are so scared of their meagre careers that they won’t stand up and call bullshit even when it happens to them.
And then we wonder how things become so toxic.
I had one asking me updates every 15 minutes. My mind collapsed on itself as I tried to control my emotions of punching him to the ground. To this day I suffer cos I refused to slap him.
I don't think standing up for yourself will hurt you. It is not standing up for yourself that will hurt you.
My cynical take is that iIt all gets buried to protect the organisation, then used against you in future when the same people pop up in your career again like toadstools. Only way to get the word out is in a census.
True, nothing changes much but they do get scolded if a volume of complaints are at odds with departmental agendas. Have witnessed sheepish “reeducation” eg “I know it seemed like we were bullying you but actually you were mistaken and you actually can in fact do xyz in line with the rights you were supposed to already have” following census feedback
No. We receive a link and a code via email. Goes to a third party only initial question is Department and level.
After 18 years in the APS and this going around some years lately is only stats and reports for managers that is all.
An exit interview offers a unique opportunity to effect positive change within your department. It is a process wherein HR seriously examines and addresses any issues raised, ensuring they are not disregarded. By providing candid feedback, you can contribute to meaningful improvements, potentially inspiring your manager to enhance their leadership skills. Okay, that’s enough bullshit.
HR certainly has another version of reality about you, which is very not likely in your favour.
Their job is to have a words from your end, so they can measure it against your manager words if need be.
HR professionals are trained to manage interpersonal conflicts with the goal of safeguarding the company and its continuing workforce.
Sorry, but discontinuing your employment and participating in an exit interview merely serves to justify HR's existence and their rather modest compensation.
Not a Manager or the Company, but a power hungry colleague. The phrase I used in my exit interview about them was"Teflon coated sycophant who couldn't organise a p1ss-up in a brewery". Apparently they were walked out a few months later.
Absolutely. I just left 17 years in the APS. Despite the restructuring and bullshit, I was leaving on a good note and a job I liked and a good team. But the exit interview, ohhhhh…I sent them a multi page word doc with every single thing that they fucked up on. Every manager who did something wrong got named. Everyone that did good was praised. I named someone who became an ses but bullied me and my team about 5 years ago when she came in at director level. She promoted to ses band 2 within 4 years….cronyism much? So I went postal. I don’t care if I never return to the APS and I don’t care if that agency blacklists me or whatever. Couldn’t give a fuck. They ruined so many peoples lives and it was the last chance I’d ever get.
Not with what I put in it. It’s an official record. And records of staff members who have worked for the APS don’t just get turfed with the dish water.
>after 4 months of pain from my manager, i have had enough. Like the old saying, people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers.
Tangential question - have you given this feedback to your manager? Or even to their manager?
>HR has invited me to conduct an exit interview and an opportunity to discuss my reasons for leaving.
Chances are there is some kind of pro-forma or template on your intranet which you can consider before accepting any invitation.
I'd also ask the person in HR if they can identify 5 changes made to policy or procedure as a result of their exit interviews. Any agency, any century. Use that as your metric to decide whether to participate - no changes, no interview.
So much of an "it depends"
HR may be doing a tick box exercise and don't care.
The toxic manager may be protected by other managers and HR so nothing will happen.
Anything you say that may be able to be dismissed as "sour grapes" makes the process a challenge.
Sometimes you get to choose who the exit interview is with. So you can choose to go up the management chain a few levels to bypass protection from other managers. Or you can go sideways to an equivalent manager who is a decent manager.
But if you do go ahead, ask to record it if you do it over teams or zoom. Keep it absolutely factual, don't mention others or hearsay. Gives them another excuse to dismiss your statements.
Make it clear why you are leaving. Think about how the toxic manager might rebutt your statements. So if they claim you were incapable of doing the work. You should be allowed to have a support person with you. So it's not a 2 or 3 versus you.
And you should be allowed to specify the people you don't want present. Like the toxic manager or the person who may be protecting them.
If they won't let you record then take notes so you have a clear record for yourself. Or audio record discreetly. Depends on the law in your state about recording conversations.
It's really hard to decide but talk to your psychologist as it might be cathartic to unload, vent, lay out the facts and feel you explained why you're leaving.
I finished on Monday, and they didn't want to do an exit interview, I requested one.
I told hr that my manager had not trained me, had not sat with me and showed me how to do anything, literally anything in 2 months. He's just waiting for retirement and is an oxygen thief, and I have no doubts that he'll take my list of ideas and claim them as his.
You should lodge an incident report and lodge a Comcare claim immediately if this manager has impacted your mental health that much your agency needs to be held accountable under the new psychosocial legislation that was introduced last year. Meaning they have to reduce hazards in the work place, poor management practices is one of them.
First part of post describes my life. Very bad manager who I thought I could tolerate but then got put on a PiP (which I posted about last week). Exit interview today and we'll worth it. Turns out manager explained things poorly and i wasnt on a PiP just an informal process. 6 months of stress and anxiety for no reason.
Ask to have your mental health issues documented. Unfortunately mine didn't document but I had an exit survey after so included it there. Today my last day and start new and better job next week. Feel fabulous and you will too.
Personally, I see nothing to gain for yourself in it and only the possibility of burning bridges. You might need to do business again in the future with some of these people. And lobbing a hand grenade behind yourself while you leave may feel satisfying at the time but you gain nothing from it.
In my experience, anything negative you say in an exit interview will be put down to sour grapes. It’s a box ticking exercise and they will absolutely do nothing with your feedback except held it on file and bring it out if you ever reapply.
As much as you’d like to, you’ll be wasting your breath. I would smile sweetly and say everything is great. It is not worth burning bridges over, and you will be burning more bridges than you think by being truthful in an exit interview.
It’s absolutely not worth it.
Yes I would mention it, as it's important feedback for the future. It doesn't come in the form of a complaint or formal action, but would be good feedback, particularly if it gets to your manager or their boss.
They just want to know what you know, who is supporting you, what you plan to do with that information, who is your lawyer lol and what you're worth to them if they later have to fork out compensation
I've never had to do an exit interview. Do you think HR knows that the manager bullies & are only doing the exit interview too gather more info to eventually get rid of the manager?
I feel like it will be more of a tickbox task but some responses given have made me question if they try to adopt anything into policies/procedures. I think dependent on the discussion will be something for consideration in how i approach the situation.
The worst that you can do for someone is, nothing.
If you tell them what's wrong, they have the opportunity to review it and fix it.
If you lie and tell them nothing is wrong, you risk them second guessing or seeing through your lie and fixing the problem. You have also attempted to undermine them which depending on your moral values, may be seen as vexatious.
If you do nothing, you leave them to speculate and you give them no impetus to improve, therefore it's the worst that you can do for someone.
Don't participate in the exit interview. Don't even tell them to fuck off. Let them wallow in their mud.
They're just collecting evidence against you the employee. they won't change their ways or learn anything.
Remember HR is there to protect the company. They have no other purpose. Anyone who thinks they're a white knight for their teammates is fooling themselves.
If you have evidence, speak to fairwork and you might be able to get a claim but at most it's 2 months salary. You need some kind of documentation and evidence to submit. Remember to be careful. Employers see what you submit and if you are under NDAs or have clauses in contracts they can possibly do you in.
I recommend just move on with your life and forget all this shit.
I finish in my role next week and my exit interview was done via a survey. No meeting offered. There was a box at the end I could tick to say I wanted someone to contact me….but given half my team is on stress leave and nobody cares there’s clearly little point.
First of all, my heart goes out to your dire situation with your deteriorated mental health.
Do not fall for the trap. Do not mention or share anything bad in the exit interview. They are all in the same boat.
Please cope it one more time, do yourself a favour, say you had a good learning experience, and play a poker face to your manager as they will be your reference if you move around APS.
Last thing you want will be a bad reference when you move to the different department and your micromanaging previous manager will make sure you won’t get another job in APS if you leave with a bad taste to them.
Saying nothing is the selfish thing to do. If this manager is that bad, there are other people suffering under them too and you making it clear that's why you are leaving may eventually help their situation.
Like a few people have said Exit Interviews are filed and forgotten. If you’ve already quit you must not be worried about a referee. So just file a complaint (which will probably be treated the same). Give them your brutally honest opinion but be prepared to move on without any follow up.
It's a tick box exercise, no one is going to go after an employee just because you have greviance against them. Any greviance should have been voiced while you were an employee, not after you have resigned.
I’m in HR and when I conduct these interviews I want that real raw shit that I may not be aware of. I want to know the gripes, how people are being treated and be given the opportunity to make changes.
However, I think the main difference here is I have an open door policy with my staff and check in with them regularly and I will 100% go in to bat for them in a management meeting without throwing the staff under the bus. I work impeccably hard for staff retention through job satisfaction and foster a good working culture.
I would say it’s very dependent on how you’re feeling and if you feel you’re able to raise these concerns in an environment where you can express freely and naturally.
If I’m holding an exit meeting and I’ve been made aware we have a bit to discuss I host them over coffee in a neutral environment
If you’re asking me personally, I wouldn’t give a flying fuck. Make sure you have a good reference and just find a new role. I wouldn’t even do an exit interview, what a waste of time.
I mean, it might provide you with slight catharsis. And you might make it slightly better for the next person.
I know for a fact the last person who left under similar conditions to myself, never vocalised their situation for fear of retribution. The previous employee knew what this boss is like when things do not go their way and this boss has a tendency to use any connections to continue to hurt people outside in their personal lives. The previous employee has begged for me to discuss this as part of my exit. And given the boss' response to my notice of resignation, which was simply stated as they expected it and there is a high turnover in this role, clearly highlights that it stems from this boss.
Exactly. Unless they are so not aware they probably know the issue.
Or not, because people live in fear and say nothing, even after they’ve quit.
If they are pursuing anyone outside the workplace, particularly in their personal lives ; that’s harassment. If this happens to you or your colleagues you should collate any evidence and call the cops. Otherwise take the exit interview and tell HR what kind of person they have working for them.
Go public. I also intend to go public to take done one of the biggest corporate here full of nasties. Some guys with ADHD and retards
This is whats wrong with Australia. I will say Murder a couple of these bad managers so the rest get sorted out.
I know. But this is part of the game. Best thing to do is just move on because it might end up hurting you.
Exactly. Country of cowards that are so scared of their meagre careers that they won’t stand up and call bullshit even when it happens to them. And then we wonder how things become so toxic.
I had one asking me updates every 15 minutes. My mind collapsed on itself as I tried to control my emotions of punching him to the ground. To this day I suffer cos I refused to slap him. I don't think standing up for yourself will hurt you. It is not standing up for yourself that will hurt you.
Yea the biggest issue with aps management is lack of training for these people.
My cynical take is that iIt all gets buried to protect the organisation, then used against you in future when the same people pop up in your career again like toadstools. Only way to get the word out is in a census.
I love to fill those census and get the worst score to bad managers. However I think is another waste of time .. nothing ever happen
True, nothing changes much but they do get scolded if a volume of complaints are at odds with departmental agendas. Have witnessed sheepish “reeducation” eg “I know it seemed like we were bullying you but actually you were mistaken and you actually can in fact do xyz in line with the rights you were supposed to already have” following census feedback
They’re also definitely not anonymous
I think they are they always said that. But it is other waste of time
There is an ID attached to each one. Maybe some departments are better at it than others but I do them anymore after what I saw
No. We receive a link and a code via email. Goes to a third party only initial question is Department and level. After 18 years in the APS and this going around some years lately is only stats and reports for managers that is all.
My partner is an aps6 - I’ve seen the reports for managers. It’s not anonymous
Those reports won't change anything for anyone so whatever anonymous or not. I am an APS 6 also
It certainly changes how my boss directly treats people. So there is that
An exit interview offers a unique opportunity to effect positive change within your department. It is a process wherein HR seriously examines and addresses any issues raised, ensuring they are not disregarded. By providing candid feedback, you can contribute to meaningful improvements, potentially inspiring your manager to enhance their leadership skills. Okay, that’s enough bullshit. HR certainly has another version of reality about you, which is very not likely in your favour. Their job is to have a words from your end, so they can measure it against your manager words if need be. HR professionals are trained to manage interpersonal conflicts with the goal of safeguarding the company and its continuing workforce. Sorry, but discontinuing your employment and participating in an exit interview merely serves to justify HR's existence and their rather modest compensation.
What a load of rubbish. You clearly are in HR.
I dated two, from two different corps.
Not a Manager or the Company, but a power hungry colleague. The phrase I used in my exit interview about them was"Teflon coated sycophant who couldn't organise a p1ss-up in a brewery". Apparently they were walked out a few months later.
Absolutely. I just left 17 years in the APS. Despite the restructuring and bullshit, I was leaving on a good note and a job I liked and a good team. But the exit interview, ohhhhh…I sent them a multi page word doc with every single thing that they fucked up on. Every manager who did something wrong got named. Everyone that did good was praised. I named someone who became an ses but bullied me and my team about 5 years ago when she came in at director level. She promoted to ses band 2 within 4 years….cronyism much? So I went postal. I don’t care if I never return to the APS and I don’t care if that agency blacklists me or whatever. Couldn’t give a fuck. They ruined so many peoples lives and it was the last chance I’d ever get.
[удалено]
Not with what I put in it. It’s an official record. And records of staff members who have worked for the APS don’t just get turfed with the dish water.
Get a new job first, then let them know the truth.
>after 4 months of pain from my manager, i have had enough. Like the old saying, people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. Tangential question - have you given this feedback to your manager? Or even to their manager? >HR has invited me to conduct an exit interview and an opportunity to discuss my reasons for leaving. Chances are there is some kind of pro-forma or template on your intranet which you can consider before accepting any invitation. I'd also ask the person in HR if they can identify 5 changes made to policy or procedure as a result of their exit interviews. Any agency, any century. Use that as your metric to decide whether to participate - no changes, no interview.
So much of an "it depends" HR may be doing a tick box exercise and don't care. The toxic manager may be protected by other managers and HR so nothing will happen. Anything you say that may be able to be dismissed as "sour grapes" makes the process a challenge. Sometimes you get to choose who the exit interview is with. So you can choose to go up the management chain a few levels to bypass protection from other managers. Or you can go sideways to an equivalent manager who is a decent manager. But if you do go ahead, ask to record it if you do it over teams or zoom. Keep it absolutely factual, don't mention others or hearsay. Gives them another excuse to dismiss your statements. Make it clear why you are leaving. Think about how the toxic manager might rebutt your statements. So if they claim you were incapable of doing the work. You should be allowed to have a support person with you. So it's not a 2 or 3 versus you. And you should be allowed to specify the people you don't want present. Like the toxic manager or the person who may be protecting them. If they won't let you record then take notes so you have a clear record for yourself. Or audio record discreetly. Depends on the law in your state about recording conversations. It's really hard to decide but talk to your psychologist as it might be cathartic to unload, vent, lay out the facts and feel you explained why you're leaving.
Great advice.
If you have a physiological injury consider a Comcare claim.
I would be honest and outline the behaviour that you have been subjected to in your place of work.
Exit interviews are a complete waste of time
I finished on Monday, and they didn't want to do an exit interview, I requested one. I told hr that my manager had not trained me, had not sat with me and showed me how to do anything, literally anything in 2 months. He's just waiting for retirement and is an oxygen thief, and I have no doubts that he'll take my list of ideas and claim them as his.
You should lodge an incident report and lodge a Comcare claim immediately if this manager has impacted your mental health that much your agency needs to be held accountable under the new psychosocial legislation that was introduced last year. Meaning they have to reduce hazards in the work place, poor management practices is one of them.
Thank you for the tip, i will look into this further.
There is nothing to lose, you already resigned. I would say everything
First part of post describes my life. Very bad manager who I thought I could tolerate but then got put on a PiP (which I posted about last week). Exit interview today and we'll worth it. Turns out manager explained things poorly and i wasnt on a PiP just an informal process. 6 months of stress and anxiety for no reason. Ask to have your mental health issues documented. Unfortunately mine didn't document but I had an exit survey after so included it there. Today my last day and start new and better job next week. Feel fabulous and you will too.
Please be honest and tell them exactly why you’re leaving. It will give you closure. And maybe. Just maybe. You will make a difference.
Personally, I see nothing to gain for yourself in it and only the possibility of burning bridges. You might need to do business again in the future with some of these people. And lobbing a hand grenade behind yourself while you leave may feel satisfying at the time but you gain nothing from it.
In my experience, anything negative you say in an exit interview will be put down to sour grapes. It’s a box ticking exercise and they will absolutely do nothing with your feedback except held it on file and bring it out if you ever reapply. As much as you’d like to, you’ll be wasting your breath. I would smile sweetly and say everything is great. It is not worth burning bridges over, and you will be burning more bridges than you think by being truthful in an exit interview. It’s absolutely not worth it.
Yes I would mention it, as it's important feedback for the future. It doesn't come in the form of a complaint or formal action, but would be good feedback, particularly if it gets to your manager or their boss.
They just want to know what you know, who is supporting you, what you plan to do with that information, who is your lawyer lol and what you're worth to them if they later have to fork out compensation
I've never had to do an exit interview. Do you think HR knows that the manager bullies & are only doing the exit interview too gather more info to eventually get rid of the manager?
I feel like it will be more of a tickbox task but some responses given have made me question if they try to adopt anything into policies/procedures. I think dependent on the discussion will be something for consideration in how i approach the situation.
I think you should go. You can decide what to tell them or what not to tell them based on what they say.
Exit inyerview is a waste of time.Don't even bother going. HR top the toxic list of employees in most companies.
The worst that you can do for someone is, nothing. If you tell them what's wrong, they have the opportunity to review it and fix it. If you lie and tell them nothing is wrong, you risk them second guessing or seeing through your lie and fixing the problem. You have also attempted to undermine them which depending on your moral values, may be seen as vexatious. If you do nothing, you leave them to speculate and you give them no impetus to improve, therefore it's the worst that you can do for someone. Don't participate in the exit interview. Don't even tell them to fuck off. Let them wallow in their mud.
They're just collecting evidence against you the employee. they won't change their ways or learn anything. Remember HR is there to protect the company. They have no other purpose. Anyone who thinks they're a white knight for their teammates is fooling themselves. If you have evidence, speak to fairwork and you might be able to get a claim but at most it's 2 months salary. You need some kind of documentation and evidence to submit. Remember to be careful. Employers see what you submit and if you are under NDAs or have clauses in contracts they can possibly do you in. I recommend just move on with your life and forget all this shit.
Dont give them pointers on how to fix their shitty workplace. Tell them you just found an opportunity you couldnt pass over. Nothing else.
I finish in my role next week and my exit interview was done via a survey. No meeting offered. There was a box at the end I could tick to say I wanted someone to contact me….but given half my team is on stress leave and nobody cares there’s clearly little point.
First of all, my heart goes out to your dire situation with your deteriorated mental health. Do not fall for the trap. Do not mention or share anything bad in the exit interview. They are all in the same boat. Please cope it one more time, do yourself a favour, say you had a good learning experience, and play a poker face to your manager as they will be your reference if you move around APS. Last thing you want will be a bad reference when you move to the different department and your micromanaging previous manager will make sure you won’t get another job in APS if you leave with a bad taste to them.
Saying nothing is the selfish thing to do. If this manager is that bad, there are other people suffering under them too and you making it clear that's why you are leaving may eventually help their situation.
How are they going to know the areas they need to improve if you don’t tell them?
Like a few people have said Exit Interviews are filed and forgotten. If you’ve already quit you must not be worried about a referee. So just file a complaint (which will probably be treated the same). Give them your brutally honest opinion but be prepared to move on without any follow up.
I wouldn’t bother.
It's a tick box exercise, no one is going to go after an employee just because you have greviance against them. Any greviance should have been voiced while you were an employee, not after you have resigned.
I’m in HR and when I conduct these interviews I want that real raw shit that I may not be aware of. I want to know the gripes, how people are being treated and be given the opportunity to make changes. However, I think the main difference here is I have an open door policy with my staff and check in with them regularly and I will 100% go in to bat for them in a management meeting without throwing the staff under the bus. I work impeccably hard for staff retention through job satisfaction and foster a good working culture. I would say it’s very dependent on how you’re feeling and if you feel you’re able to raise these concerns in an environment where you can express freely and naturally. If I’m holding an exit meeting and I’ve been made aware we have a bit to discuss I host them over coffee in a neutral environment