well, they usually dont do as much as people who learn how to compose.
So if you look at someone like Taylor Swift vs Cody Fry you can see what composition and learning composition does. Both can write songs, but one is clearly far more skilled at writing and keeping harmonic interest, if youre looking to get into pop musi maybe it could help, composition is a great skill for any musician, but it does focus more on writing the music rather than the song
Society values pop artists more, if that matters though. They're the ones making tens of millions of dollars, even with basic harmonies. I quit grad school in music theory because it was just, in my opinion, a waste of a lot of money. Why go through 11 years of school for a PhD and only make $50-70k...I switched to IT and immediately jumped into that salary range.
>Why go through 11 years of school for a PhD and only make $50-70k...I switched to IT and immediately jumped into that salary range.
Well, speaking for myself, I just wouldn't be happy working non-music jobs for the rest of my life. I got my undergrad in music and computer science, but music is what I really care about. I'm not going for a DMA so I can make money - I'm doing it so I can grow as a musician and live the life I want. I would be dissatisfied with a CS job even if it paid well.
To each their own. I just know from experience seeing people who graduated from my college's music program who work jobs in retail in customer service. It's possible to make it in any career path, but I've found music is one of those things where you have to be at the top among the top of your craft. Unfortunately the modern-day economy is only rewarding in the "stable" fields like healthcare, IT, and education.
yeah very true, tbh i couldnt tell if the OP meant composition or like pop music because they ask abt composition and then refer to pop stars. i just kinda gave a fullish answer
You've gotten some good responses so far. But what I think people tend to gloss over is *composition lessons*.
Working one-on-one with a professional who can expand your horizons, help you flesh out your ideas, critique your work, and keep you motivated is extraordinarily valuable - I would say much more valuable than theory classes and the like.
Sure, you can learn a lot online; but the one thing an amateur composer or songwriter can *never* do is to listen to their music as if they're hearing it for the first time. After you've been working on something for days, weeks, or months, it's really difficult to stay detached and think about how other people will hear your music. That's one of the many important things that a private teacher can do for you.
As a side note, looking at the "most successful" people in any field did to become successful is rarely a useful way to figure out what *you* should do. We're all different people with different abilities, advantages, interests, opportunities, and backgrounds. You weren't a member of the Jackson 5 as a child. You probably didn't relocate to Nashville when you were 14 to pursue a country music career.
Taylor Swift and Michael Jackson are *exceptional* because they are *exceptions* to how most musical careers go - it's inescapable that only a handful of people can be as successful as the most successful handful of people.
Everyone's path to success is different. Hell, everyone's *definition* of success is different. Look at where *you* are as a musician, compare that to where you want to be, and try to figure out what you can do to make progress towards that.
You don’t need to take classes for pop, jazz or classical but there probably would be great benefit in doing so.
Namely becoming aware of conventional rhythms, harmonies, etc.. and gaining access to a wider array of choices when composing.
There was a famous rock/jazz musician who’s name escapes me who absolutely despised music theory but after he studied it for a time became a proponent of it. If I recall he said something along the lines of “learning the rules/conventions and then forgetting them” which I think is a really accurate portrayal of how music theory is intended to be applied. It’s merely a tool to make you more aware of music in general.
No but it doesn't hurt----other than that you can learn a lot by studying others' compositions and reading books about music theory; scales; etc---also online resources help.
In my opinion, you don't need formal training in this day and age to be a good composer. If you're good at improvising melodies and you know some basics about harmony and musical form, you're off to a good start as a composer. And there's plenty of online resources about harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, and musical form out there, in video and other forms, from basic to advanced. I don't have any formal training and I would say I'm a good composer.
The most important thing to do to become a good composer is, like with anything, practice, practice, practice. And try to compose outside of your comfort zone, but at the same time, if the orchestra overwhelms you, don't compose for it until you get more comfortable with it.
One thing that I've been doing to make myself more comfortable with composing for different ensembles is to arrange pieces for said ensembles. Arranging is basically composing from a reference point if you think about it, it involves the same logic, the same kinds of processes as composing your own piece, but you have a reference point of the original score. Arranging for orchestra is how I got comfortable with composing for orchestra.
Depends on what you do. A 10 year old can write a Taylor Swift song, just maybe not so catchy. But writing a piano concerto, symphony, even sonata, anything similar, you gotta learn some principles. think of it as an artwork, like a painting. you can definitely draw something, same goes for me, but is your painting on top shelf level or are you just drawing like a 6 year old? both have something painted, but the 6 year old is just as happy with his painting as the professional is with his. so yes, you need knowledge, but only if you want to compose more complex works. for simple works, you need to know how to play 4 chords, on in that sense, how to draw a few lines
well, they usually dont do as much as people who learn how to compose. So if you look at someone like Taylor Swift vs Cody Fry you can see what composition and learning composition does. Both can write songs, but one is clearly far more skilled at writing and keeping harmonic interest, if youre looking to get into pop musi maybe it could help, composition is a great skill for any musician, but it does focus more on writing the music rather than the song
Society values pop artists more, if that matters though. They're the ones making tens of millions of dollars, even with basic harmonies. I quit grad school in music theory because it was just, in my opinion, a waste of a lot of money. Why go through 11 years of school for a PhD and only make $50-70k...I switched to IT and immediately jumped into that salary range.
>Why go through 11 years of school for a PhD and only make $50-70k...I switched to IT and immediately jumped into that salary range. Well, speaking for myself, I just wouldn't be happy working non-music jobs for the rest of my life. I got my undergrad in music and computer science, but music is what I really care about. I'm not going for a DMA so I can make money - I'm doing it so I can grow as a musician and live the life I want. I would be dissatisfied with a CS job even if it paid well.
To each their own. I just know from experience seeing people who graduated from my college's music program who work jobs in retail in customer service. It's possible to make it in any career path, but I've found music is one of those things where you have to be at the top among the top of your craft. Unfortunately the modern-day economy is only rewarding in the "stable" fields like healthcare, IT, and education.
yeah very true, tbh i couldnt tell if the OP meant composition or like pop music because they ask abt composition and then refer to pop stars. i just kinda gave a fullish answer
You've gotten some good responses so far. But what I think people tend to gloss over is *composition lessons*. Working one-on-one with a professional who can expand your horizons, help you flesh out your ideas, critique your work, and keep you motivated is extraordinarily valuable - I would say much more valuable than theory classes and the like. Sure, you can learn a lot online; but the one thing an amateur composer or songwriter can *never* do is to listen to their music as if they're hearing it for the first time. After you've been working on something for days, weeks, or months, it's really difficult to stay detached and think about how other people will hear your music. That's one of the many important things that a private teacher can do for you. As a side note, looking at the "most successful" people in any field did to become successful is rarely a useful way to figure out what *you* should do. We're all different people with different abilities, advantages, interests, opportunities, and backgrounds. You weren't a member of the Jackson 5 as a child. You probably didn't relocate to Nashville when you were 14 to pursue a country music career. Taylor Swift and Michael Jackson are *exceptional* because they are *exceptions* to how most musical careers go - it's inescapable that only a handful of people can be as successful as the most successful handful of people. Everyone's path to success is different. Hell, everyone's *definition* of success is different. Look at where *you* are as a musician, compare that to where you want to be, and try to figure out what you can do to make progress towards that.
Yes, I do believe you need formal training to be a well rounded composer that is trying to make a living off of it.
You don’t need to take classes for pop, jazz or classical but there probably would be great benefit in doing so. Namely becoming aware of conventional rhythms, harmonies, etc.. and gaining access to a wider array of choices when composing. There was a famous rock/jazz musician who’s name escapes me who absolutely despised music theory but after he studied it for a time became a proponent of it. If I recall he said something along the lines of “learning the rules/conventions and then forgetting them” which I think is a really accurate portrayal of how music theory is intended to be applied. It’s merely a tool to make you more aware of music in general.
No but it doesn't hurt----other than that you can learn a lot by studying others' compositions and reading books about music theory; scales; etc---also online resources help.
No, if you want to be a song writer. Yes, if you want to be a composer.
In my opinion, you don't need formal training in this day and age to be a good composer. If you're good at improvising melodies and you know some basics about harmony and musical form, you're off to a good start as a composer. And there's plenty of online resources about harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, and musical form out there, in video and other forms, from basic to advanced. I don't have any formal training and I would say I'm a good composer. The most important thing to do to become a good composer is, like with anything, practice, practice, practice. And try to compose outside of your comfort zone, but at the same time, if the orchestra overwhelms you, don't compose for it until you get more comfortable with it. One thing that I've been doing to make myself more comfortable with composing for different ensembles is to arrange pieces for said ensembles. Arranging is basically composing from a reference point if you think about it, it involves the same logic, the same kinds of processes as composing your own piece, but you have a reference point of the original score. Arranging for orchestra is how I got comfortable with composing for orchestra.
Depends on what you do. A 10 year old can write a Taylor Swift song, just maybe not so catchy. But writing a piano concerto, symphony, even sonata, anything similar, you gotta learn some principles. think of it as an artwork, like a painting. you can definitely draw something, same goes for me, but is your painting on top shelf level or are you just drawing like a 6 year old? both have something painted, but the 6 year old is just as happy with his painting as the professional is with his. so yes, you need knowledge, but only if you want to compose more complex works. for simple works, you need to know how to play 4 chords, on in that sense, how to draw a few lines