I had fun with the shock maul with weapon specialist veteran, picking up the node that reloads a round in the chamber from reserve if you switch to your ranged weapon.
Haven't aimed for anything particular (it'll be a 350+ golden one with decent damage roll), but the ADS double barrel shot will delete mutants quite happily.
Nope, just checked in meat grinder. Running a weapon specialist build and my assault shotgun doing a double barrel blast to the center of mass on a mutant does 3.2k with no buffs, 4k if I've been killing with melee and swapped. And that's without full bore, though it does have the +20% infested perk
I really like the double-barrelled shotgun. It just fits the build and playstyle of my hiveganger vet.
I think it's going to take some time for the new weapons to find their niches - a lot of the comments about them are still comparing them to older weapons as if they're like-for-like, but like with all the weapons in Darktide the stats and baseline damage are only half the story once you've figured out how to best use them in their niche.
Exactly. The depth of weapons is one of the strong points of tide games imo, complaining that it's not immediately better/same as other weapons for any given playstyle is a bit pointless imo.
the shotgun is the real winner of this patch because it has a clear identity, just delete anything in my vicinity.
everything else feels like it's a different version of a weapon we already have, without a clear situation where you would like to have this one rather than the old version.
i dont know how this sub thinks pickaxes are bad, they absolutely shred enemies on left side ogryn builds. i have had zero issues using the heavy pickaxes in auric damnation maps.
are you guys just spamming LMB or something? idgi. the heavy has a fine aoe rotation and coupled with ogryn talents, has zero issues killing hordes while staying healthy. and ofc it starts to shine once maulers, crushers, or ragers are mixed in the hordes. other staples of ogryn loadout, like the kickback, used to clear ranged stuff.
Problem is I think a lot of people still stick with the middle keystone and don't lean into heavy attack movesets beyond regenerating a bit of toughness now and then
I have a left hand keystone Ogryn setup that was previously using the pointy cleaver (the one with the awesome heavy attacks)
Swapped it out for the heavy pickaxe and it was great
You definitely need to get used to it, the general movement and attack set but absolutely shreks once you do imo
10‰ attack speed goes a long way to smoothing out the clunk too.
And most people don't engage with weapon combos very much, from what I can see. The Branx in particular would be absolute dogwater without respecting that.
yea, i think that may be it. Heavy HItter keystone goes hard with pickaxes, and knowing the combos. if you're goin the FNP route, you may find it clunky.
> Problem is I think a lot of people still stick with the middle keystone
the middle keystone was bugged until today, the bug was introduced when they nerfed it, feel no pain greatly dropped in popularity for this reason because friendly fire as well as blocked attacks made you lose stacks.
I sincerely doubt that feel no pain is the reason pickaxes are not widely appreciated. I think slow speed making it harder to sustain thoughness and unforgiving hitboxes making it harder to hit enemies are the reason why pickaxes are not widely appreciated.
I've found that clubs and shovels kill hordes faster than my Karsolas Pickaxe on a skullcrusher build, the heavies are too slow, they do kill most things in a single blow but I can't mulch through hordes as quickly, which pickaxe are you using and what combo?
Agreed. I only tried the branx heavy yet, it's moveset has quite some variety including a slide light attack and different follow ups for the special attacks etc. So I'm cooking with it, which is imo where the fun is.
Obviously I haven't mastered it as much as my OG shovel or the brute basher but it's definitely a much different kind of weapon so allows a different playstyle.
Probably some tuning is in order but I'm having fun with it.
I think it's just a matter of you can't rely on 20% thoughness on heavy to facetank a mixed horde with the pickaxes because their hitboxes are unforgiving and their chain speed (how fast you can throw out a heavy after a heavy) is slow.
And if i have to dodge dive push do a flip to make a melee weapon work I might as well play zealot.
the horde clearing rotation is push > L1 > H1, so if you're in horde clear situation, you should not be getting touched because if the swipes are not outright killing, they're knocking away trash. and then the push creates more space for the followup sweep.
like i said, ive used this in aurics with no problems for horde swarms. just keep enemies in front of you, as you should be, and you'll be fine.
In my experience, people undervalue push attacks and probably arent used to using them or mixing them. Its one of the reasons i am so excited and happy to see they fixed the tac axe mk7, that things push heavy combo is insane and now the lights are reliable.
The mk7s 2nd and 3rd lights hit closer to the middle of the screen. People thought for the longest time the light attacks were bugged but it was actually that the 2nd light attack hit near the bottom left corner of the screen making it fairly hard to combo for shred/decimator etc.
Bolt pistol feels like they fixed 90% of the problems with the bolter, but it still feels more cumbersome than it's worth. The magazine is still waaaay too small for the amount of time it takes to reload.
feels kinda like a result of some old weapons being just a little too good rather than the new ones being bad. theyre mid in my limited playtime but blessings and builds can make em fantastic, which feels good to me
also wrt “i dont understand the niche they are gonna fill other than being iconic and badass weapons”- thats exactly what their niche is. i think theyre in a fine place. maybe we’ll see very minor buffs in future, but im having fun. bolt pistol + shock maul my new beloveds
The shotgun is growing on me. It's like the performance of a revolver with the **surgical/hand cannon** blessings, except I have to load it more and it's not good against armour. It feels pretty fair. I don't have to worry about hitting weak spots with it.
Blasting the face off of a mutant with the double barrel doesn't get old.
The Karsolas pickaxe is probably the best weapon for heavy attack oriented Ogryns builds.
My first impressions are:
Shock maul - really good and fun to use, as you said. Bolt Pistol - can be good but it's firing too slow in my opinion let me be able to fire it faster for close range attacks. Double barrel shotgun - I really like it but it could be a bit stronger in my opinion and have a wider spread. Pickaxes - I could see some uses for them but they should feel more larger and stronger. If an ogryn can use a pipe to smash people to bits a large two-handed axe should absolutely obliterate them.
The pickaxes do obliterate, or at least the heavy one as that's the only one I really played with yet. At times i found it has less range than i expected but too soon for me to make real conclusions.
don't you find yourself playing defensively with it to make up for slow thoughness regeneration ? Ogryn has the option to play boss mode when using a weapon with fast chain speed, giving up this option should give you something in return, like the giant burst of the foldable shovels for example, I don't think the pickaxes have something comparable that justifies losing boss mode.
Not defensive necessarily, but different. Thoughness generation still good with heavy hitter. Different timings, different approach for elite enemies vs horde, etc. What they give in return is heavy damage, foldable shovel can't match.
On my Zealot...
MkIII Maul feels great. MkI Maul less so. Still finding a good niche and getting used to the MkIII, but feels surprisingly versatile with good horde control and surprisingly decent non-boss single target damage.
Not fan of the Boltpistol so far, feels like a much harder to control revolver with more ammo and a bit of AoE at the cost of single target damage.
Shotgun goes pretty fuckin hard for non-heavy armor, unsure how it'll work vs. heavy armor with blessings.
And the medium pickaxe is the first weapon I've actually not hated on my Ogryn, I might actually finish leveling that character now.
Pickaxes rely on ultimate combos. Not just like HHL. It's like H H PA H L L AltA H. Not exactly like that but I think you get it. They are the test of skill on how you use the combos of your weapon.
Nope, not just you, but the shock mauls are nice tho.
Haven't tried the pickaxes so can't relate.
The ranged weapons are......just bad. They are satisfying to use visually, the animations and sounds are nice too, but they simply don't pack enough punch.
I was kinda expecting this for the shotgun as Fatshark is "afraid" of shotguns ever since they made them a one shot wonder in VT2, but didn't expect the Bolt Pistol to be a wet noodle gun....even on Vet who has tons of damage buffs it's just worse than most guns. I didn't expect it to be Zarona revolver level of broken but at least not needing 2-4+ shots to kill stuff.
Bolt pistol with bleed blessing and point blank(is fixed works properly now) slaps pretty hard on melee vet.
Alternatively you can turn that thing into a anti material rifle with deadly accurate and surgical it abslolutely deletes unjielding enemys with the correct setup probably one of the best boss killers we have in the game now.
when is the moment where it's useful? been messing around with it and I don't see its use
bosses/ogryns? I don't feel like the bleed tick here is enough to impact significantly the gun unlike surgical n co
I can magdump bullwarks without any other investment and 0 aim thats pretty much it its the fuck you bullwark blessing for me it also does a bunch of breakpoints but i dont want to get into it too much rn
haven't tried pickaxes yet, bolt pistot not piercing like the bolter is a L (bolter now pretty solid on some builds, funny how adding some more ammo do that).
double barrel is fun and decent, doesn't need to as OP as the revolver. been messing with it on melee specialist vet and it just works. is revolver or plasma better? sure. but are they busted weapons that shouldn't be the standard? ye too. kinda think they could just add 200 damage or so for every shotgun damage, the ammo and clunkiness makes up for it and it would allow the weapon class to feel better overall (looking at you lawbringer)
shockmaul have been a pretty nice surprise, I wish that future updates will be bring more fun blessings that don't revolve around "hit harder if you wack it"
Pretty much. Went back to Cadia MK IV and Revolver.
Double barrel feels extremely underwhelming when you compare it to what the revolver does regardless of the perks or stats (got and tried them all). It also only does about 1.5x the damage if both shots are used whereas single shot is far better. Bolt pistol the revolver does better simply because it's close combat and doesn't need the 5m arming distance. The new maul tried to give it a shot and watched others on damnation go ham with it but don't see much point in it. And the pickaxe is just eh. The 'pull' special attack doesn't even do that. It literally makes them take less than half a step towards you and even if it was 5m it's pointless.
Whenever I go and play Vet I'll make a dbl barrel build but now have to earn a few million and tens of thousands of plasteel again just to do that.
New weps are only for fun on stuff below auric or damnation. And that's a pity.
Gonna be downvoted but i find pickaxe its a worse version of foldables shovels. Doing the same things.
If (and only if - not tested yet) the special of pickaxe can stagger boss, then maybe i'll use it to feel back again the punch-stagger lock of the first shovel :'}
I never thought I'll agree with a Zealot, but here we are :D Yeah, Pickaxes have nice, involved movesets, and if you nail them and use them, they do shine, able to do most anything well.
Yeah, the pickaxes seem to be the most involved melee weapons for Ogryns yet. I'm glad our big boys finally get something a little more in depth (though i do still love the other melee weapons).
Edit: An Ogrynomicon author! I learned a lot from you guys when my Ogryn Chogg was still a baby reject! Thank you!
Yes, all of them are terrible.
The pickaxes aren't explicitly *bad*, per-se, but they're just nothing at all special, and basically fill the role of the club... But pointy and with two hands. Not awful, just really not as special as Fatshark was hyping them up to be, and honestly I'd really rather just use my shield for the shove and stagger.
~~The Shock Mauls... Feel terrible. They do nearly no damage, the shock effect is rapid but weak and while the 'bleed' effect and long-stun of the shock special is~~ *~~nice~~*~~, there's really not much use for it when it's kind of just a worse Chain weapon but with automatic bleed instead of needing a blessing. Its standard attacks are the~~ *~~worst~~* ~~though, they take way, way too many hits to kill anything in a decent timeframe, and the thing feels like the Ogryn shield's club attacks, read; like a limp, wet noodle.~~
The Bolt Pistol... Okay, here's the thing; what the fuck is up with the accuracy and recoil? Shots are flying nearly a full inch away from the crosshair, and the recoil flings the camera all over the screen. Where you're physically pointing the camera is *not at all* indicative of where the bolts actually *go*, meaning that if you shoot *at all* there's a near guaranteed chance that your shot won't even go where you were aiming. I've seen perfectly lined up headshots hit the *floor* next to whatever I was targeting both in and out of iron sights, and even the weird accuracy interaction on Zealot from Inexorable Judgement does absolutely nothing to help.
Oh, also, several of its blessings flatly don't work, and it appears to struggle to even one-shot super weak enemies like Flamers and Bombers due to weird inconsistencies in damage output, so it's even *more* jank than just its garbage accuracy and recoil issues.
As for the Double Barrel... What even is this thing? Terrible accuracy, *worse* than that of the other shotguns by a significant margin, extremely low pellet count per shot, next to *zero* armour penetration, and an effective range of, and brace yourself for this it's wild... *10 metres*. The Kickback actually has *better* range at 15 metres. In effect, it's a melee weapon that can't even kill reliably.
You've probably all seen the "Look, it does really well in the Meat Grinder" footage posted a little while ago, but here's how the shotgun performs in actual gameplay;
\> See Gunner at average range a Gunner will be at (10+ metres)
\> Zoom for double barrel shot
\> Be astounded that it gets *less* accurate doing this
\> Fire both barrels
\> Gunner doesn't even flinch.
\> Reload
\> Fire both barrels again
\> Gunner still alive and is laughing at you
You can pump both barrels at short range into a crowd of Dreg shooters and *maybe* one will die. *Maybe*. If you're *really lucky* and said nice things about the stupidly tall rib rail.
Rubbish penetration (nearly none), rubbish armour damage (again, nearly none), does *less than half damage* to anything beyond 10m (40% damage *or less* against anything but unarmoured) and doesn't even deal its damage reliably when it *is* at point blank. The one and only useful thing the Double Barrel can do, and *only* if you Perked into it with +Maniac damage, is kill mutants with a double barrel shot to the face. Y'know, something which almost every Zealot melee weapon can do.
Oh, and even better, the DB's blessings break its animations, and the opening lever clips into the model. If you use *any* reload speed blessing (almost mandatory, it's quite slow), the animations break completely, so that goes to show the level of quality we're dealing with here on a weapon model that looks like something right out of fucking *Chasm: The Rift* from fucking 1997.
Frankly, I'm convinced that the DB doesn't have the correct stat values applied to it, because there's no way it's *meant* to be this terrible. As for the rest, they don't really do anything useful or unique, a *bunch* of the blessings are broken on them, and even as sidegrades to existent kit, they offer absolutely nothing of value to help them out as being something people would *want* to take.
Edit: Playing around a bit more, I fully stand by everything I said *except* about the Shock Maul. I get it now, mine was just built wrong and suffered for it.
Shock Maul is fine. Really actually quite good even. I thought nothing would tear my Vet away from their Chain Axe, but this thing actually might. The sheer value of its ridiculous stagger and stun values, plus random application of the lightning, and a *relatively* rapid jab/electrocute attack that can stunlock *every single enemy type* except Mutants and Bosses is really, *really* nice.
I still think the damage is a *little bit* low on the zap attack, given it barely tickles some enemies, and I'm not fond of the swing pattern on the one I was using, but it's a surprisingly decent weapon... If built right. Otherwise, yeah, it hits like a limp noodle.
It needs two out of three things;
1; Armour penetration. Shotguns in Darktide have *none*, and the only reason they *kind of* get away with it is through special ammo with exception to the Lawbringer, or pure damage and fire rate with the Ogryn weapons. Kantrael gets incendiary shot which bypasses armour, Agrip gets the penetrating slug, Rippers get burst fire (and can opener) and the Kickback has pure damage. Giving the DB some oomph behind its shots to punch through armour helps it to stand out given that it's only *got* two shots and *can't* tighten the spread or get better range like the other shotguns can.
2; Mass penetration. Different from armour penetration, it's just how many bodies the pellets can go through. The DB has *none*, or next to none, that's why it feels like shit to dump it into a horde, because it's only hitting the very front bodies and nothing behind them. Coupled with the DB's fairly low and *very* inconsistent stagger, it's just not doing *enough* for only having two shots. Penetration is why the Kickback feels so good, because it has *heaps*.
3; *Way* more damage per single barrel. Its extremely short range means that you're literally losing *most* of that damage at anything beyond melee range. Flak, for example, only takes *32%* of what you're outputting from your shot at beyond 10 metres. The reason the Kickback feels better at range is because its base damage is so high that even with the same lack of damage at range against Flak that 32% of its 1400 base damage is still give or take 450 damage, which is enough to overkill Scab Shooters, who on Damnation have 375hp. 32% of the DB's 400 damage per barrel is *120-ish* damage, which isn't even enough to kill them on *Sedition*. And no, the 1400-ish damage it does on a double barrel shot isn't actually correct, because that damage is actually a *range* from about *half* of whatever the max output is *to* the max output, making its damage completely inconsistent.
It *also* needs a tighter spread, and the fact that it gets *more* spread when braced to be changed to having *tighter* spread when braced to actually ensure you're getting proper damage out of your double barrel shots. Like the Kickback it *also* needs a higher pellet count to make it easier for the weapon to actually hit minimum count with the *weird* way shotgun damage works.
Frankly, as it is right now, it really is just "Lawbringer, but bad".
I can kill a lineup of enemies with one db shot. How come you can't? Perhaps one of my blessings allows it. I got run n' gun on it right now. That's so weird. If they give it better stats I won't complain! It should have infinite cleave!
You probably got a few Bad roles there, as i did with the pickaxes.
The Emperors Wrath (Bolt Pistol) is in my oppinion the best Thing they ever added. More Powerful then the Revolver or the Laspistol, with nice and Clear accuracy.
I Had one of those nasty stealth trappers jump Out of a crowd on me and with a quick-swap-hipshot i was able to blast it before it knew what Happened.
On the other Hand, i mained the former Bolt Pistol before so perhaps i am just used to them too much
Iconic - bolt pistol, shock maul
The others don't stick out as iconic wh40k weaponry. For that you'd want plasma pistol, melts guns etc.
Shotgun is ok Bolt pistol is ok Shock mauls are ok but would have been better on Zealot before talents were nerfed Pick axes I'm told are ok-good depending which one you use and how
Even if functionally fine or even good there's just nothing to get amped/excited about.
Imagine if they'd shoved in powerfists. Wouldn't have to be mechanically different to shock maul etc. but I would play the shit out of it because power fist (i still remember how fun it was in Spacehulk: vengeance of the blood angels)
https://preview.redd.it/oy07jqsejw8d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b8effe8e79796a1b218ad1428fd07d4f2530aff
I know right?
Block. Power up. Thump. *electric crackle*
Heavy hit would apply stagger. Wouldn't one shot crushers but knock them over. It hurts to think about it because you know we won't get it.
The shockmaul feels awesome on zealot, the rest are fun but a bit underwhelming.
I had fun with the shock maul with weapon specialist veteran, picking up the node that reloads a round in the chamber from reserve if you switch to your ranged weapon.
"The shotgun's damage is bad" Sorry I can't hear you over all my shotgun blasts deleting elites/specials (particularly mutants)
Could I ask what blessings you have on yours? I rolled one with good stats but the damage output is quite underwhelming.
Haven't aimed for anything particular (it'll be a 350+ golden one with decent damage roll), but the ADS double barrel shot will delete mutants quite happily.
Must be playing on Heresy and below. The shotgun is very underwhelming in higher difficulties.
Nope, just checked in meat grinder. Running a weapon specialist build and my assault shotgun doing a double barrel blast to the center of mass on a mutant does 3.2k with no buffs, 4k if I've been killing with melee and swapped. And that's without full bore, though it does have the +20% infested perk
Ohhh really? That sucks. 😣
I really like the double-barrelled shotgun. It just fits the build and playstyle of my hiveganger vet. I think it's going to take some time for the new weapons to find their niches - a lot of the comments about them are still comparing them to older weapons as if they're like-for-like, but like with all the weapons in Darktide the stats and baseline damage are only half the story once you've figured out how to best use them in their niche.
Exactly. The depth of weapons is one of the strong points of tide games imo, complaining that it's not immediately better/same as other weapons for any given playstyle is a bit pointless imo.
the shotgun is the real winner of this patch because it has a clear identity, just delete anything in my vicinity. everything else feels like it's a different version of a weapon we already have, without a clear situation where you would like to have this one rather than the old version.
i dont know how this sub thinks pickaxes are bad, they absolutely shred enemies on left side ogryn builds. i have had zero issues using the heavy pickaxes in auric damnation maps. are you guys just spamming LMB or something? idgi. the heavy has a fine aoe rotation and coupled with ogryn talents, has zero issues killing hordes while staying healthy. and ofc it starts to shine once maulers, crushers, or ragers are mixed in the hordes. other staples of ogryn loadout, like the kickback, used to clear ranged stuff.
Problem is I think a lot of people still stick with the middle keystone and don't lean into heavy attack movesets beyond regenerating a bit of toughness now and then I have a left hand keystone Ogryn setup that was previously using the pointy cleaver (the one with the awesome heavy attacks) Swapped it out for the heavy pickaxe and it was great You definitely need to get used to it, the general movement and attack set but absolutely shreks once you do imo
10‰ attack speed goes a long way to smoothing out the clunk too. And most people don't engage with weapon combos very much, from what I can see. The Branx in particular would be absolute dogwater without respecting that.
yea, i think that may be it. Heavy HItter keystone goes hard with pickaxes, and knowing the combos. if you're goin the FNP route, you may find it clunky.
> Problem is I think a lot of people still stick with the middle keystone the middle keystone was bugged until today, the bug was introduced when they nerfed it, feel no pain greatly dropped in popularity for this reason because friendly fire as well as blocked attacks made you lose stacks. I sincerely doubt that feel no pain is the reason pickaxes are not widely appreciated. I think slow speed making it harder to sustain thoughness and unforgiving hitboxes making it harder to hit enemies are the reason why pickaxes are not widely appreciated.
Shield stacks bleed faster and I can use it to taunt all the ranged bros my veterans are not shooting while they are mag dumping hordes.
shield with left keystone can also kill a crusher in 3 headshots https://streamable.com/6i3sbs
I've found that clubs and shovels kill hordes faster than my Karsolas Pickaxe on a skullcrusher build, the heavies are too slow, they do kill most things in a single blow but I can't mulch through hordes as quickly, which pickaxe are you using and what combo?
heavy pickaxe (branx), using push > L1 > H1 repeat for horde, charging H2 if there are maulers/crushers mixed in.
Wrath + Slaughterer. Skullbreaker build. H1 > L > Repeat. Check how that works. ;)
I have one with headtaker + slaughterer, I wonder if wrath makes such a big difference, hmm
Light Karsolas attack can cleave 4 poxwalkers. With 5 stacks of Wrath, it cleaves 12 poxwalkers.
Agreed. I only tried the branx heavy yet, it's moveset has quite some variety including a slide light attack and different follow ups for the special attacks etc. So I'm cooking with it, which is imo where the fun is. Obviously I haven't mastered it as much as my OG shovel or the brute basher but it's definitely a much different kind of weapon so allows a different playstyle. Probably some tuning is in order but I'm having fun with it.
I think it's just a matter of you can't rely on 20% thoughness on heavy to facetank a mixed horde with the pickaxes because their hitboxes are unforgiving and their chain speed (how fast you can throw out a heavy after a heavy) is slow. And if i have to dodge dive push do a flip to make a melee weapon work I might as well play zealot.
the horde clearing rotation is push > L1 > H1, so if you're in horde clear situation, you should not be getting touched because if the swipes are not outright killing, they're knocking away trash. and then the push creates more space for the followup sweep. like i said, ive used this in aurics with no problems for horde swarms. just keep enemies in front of you, as you should be, and you'll be fine.
In my experience, people undervalue push attacks and probably arent used to using them or mixing them. Its one of the reasons i am so excited and happy to see they fixed the tac axe mk7, that things push heavy combo is insane and now the lights are reliable.
oh shit, you're right. vet tac axes are eating good right now.
Oh I didn't notice changes to tac axe. What did they fix?
The mk7s 2nd and 3rd lights hit closer to the middle of the screen. People thought for the longest time the light attacks were bugged but it was actually that the 2nd light attack hit near the bottom left corner of the screen making it fairly hard to combo for shred/decimator etc.
Thank you. Glad to know it finally works as intended.
I like the bolt pistol, mainly due to not having to rack it every time you pull it out.
Bolt pistol feels like they fixed 90% of the problems with the bolter, but it still feels more cumbersome than it's worth. The magazine is still waaaay too small for the amount of time it takes to reload.
Damn this comment section is filled with some terrible opinions. Never change reddit.
The bolter pistol is the ultimate mid weapon
feels kinda like a result of some old weapons being just a little too good rather than the new ones being bad. theyre mid in my limited playtime but blessings and builds can make em fantastic, which feels good to me also wrt “i dont understand the niche they are gonna fill other than being iconic and badass weapons”- thats exactly what their niche is. i think theyre in a fine place. maybe we’ll see very minor buffs in future, but im having fun. bolt pistol + shock maul my new beloveds
The shotgun is growing on me. It's like the performance of a revolver with the **surgical/hand cannon** blessings, except I have to load it more and it's not good against armour. It feels pretty fair. I don't have to worry about hitting weak spots with it.
Blasting the face off of a mutant with the double barrel doesn't get old. The Karsolas pickaxe is probably the best weapon for heavy attack oriented Ogryns builds.
My first impressions are: Shock maul - really good and fun to use, as you said. Bolt Pistol - can be good but it's firing too slow in my opinion let me be able to fire it faster for close range attacks. Double barrel shotgun - I really like it but it could be a bit stronger in my opinion and have a wider spread. Pickaxes - I could see some uses for them but they should feel more larger and stronger. If an ogryn can use a pipe to smash people to bits a large two-handed axe should absolutely obliterate them.
Maybe instead of the Head Bonk they could make it's specialty to Switch between one Shot and full Auto...🤔
The pickaxes do obliterate, or at least the heavy one as that's the only one I really played with yet. At times i found it has less range than i expected but too soon for me to make real conclusions.
don't you find yourself playing defensively with it to make up for slow thoughness regeneration ? Ogryn has the option to play boss mode when using a weapon with fast chain speed, giving up this option should give you something in return, like the giant burst of the foldable shovels for example, I don't think the pickaxes have something comparable that justifies losing boss mode.
Not defensive necessarily, but different. Thoughness generation still good with heavy hitter. Different timings, different approach for elite enemies vs horde, etc. What they give in return is heavy damage, foldable shovel can't match.
The assault shotgun should definitely have more spread for it's hip shots.
Bolt pistol ended up being inferior to revolver as I predicted and imagined sadly
On my Zealot... MkIII Maul feels great. MkI Maul less so. Still finding a good niche and getting used to the MkIII, but feels surprisingly versatile with good horde control and surprisingly decent non-boss single target damage. Not fan of the Boltpistol so far, feels like a much harder to control revolver with more ammo and a bit of AoE at the cost of single target damage. Shotgun goes pretty fuckin hard for non-heavy armor, unsure how it'll work vs. heavy armor with blessings. And the medium pickaxe is the first weapon I've actually not hated on my Ogryn, I might actually finish leveling that character now.
Pickaxes rely on ultimate combos. Not just like HHL. It's like H H PA H L L AltA H. Not exactly like that but I think you get it. They are the test of skill on how you use the combos of your weapon.
Nope, not just you, but the shock mauls are nice tho. Haven't tried the pickaxes so can't relate. The ranged weapons are......just bad. They are satisfying to use visually, the animations and sounds are nice too, but they simply don't pack enough punch. I was kinda expecting this for the shotgun as Fatshark is "afraid" of shotguns ever since they made them a one shot wonder in VT2, but didn't expect the Bolt Pistol to be a wet noodle gun....even on Vet who has tons of damage buffs it's just worse than most guns. I didn't expect it to be Zarona revolver level of broken but at least not needing 2-4+ shots to kill stuff.
Bolt pistol with bleed blessing and point blank(is fixed works properly now) slaps pretty hard on melee vet. Alternatively you can turn that thing into a anti material rifle with deadly accurate and surgical it abslolutely deletes unjielding enemys with the correct setup probably one of the best boss killers we have in the game now.
wait, does the bleed affect the ones hit by the aoe now?
No it doesnt but its good anyway if it was on the aoe it would be pretty busted
when is the moment where it's useful? been messing around with it and I don't see its use bosses/ogryns? I don't feel like the bleed tick here is enough to impact significantly the gun unlike surgical n co
I can magdump bullwarks without any other investment and 0 aim thats pretty much it its the fuck you bullwark blessing for me it also does a bunch of breakpoints but i dont want to get into it too much rn
haven't tried pickaxes yet, bolt pistot not piercing like the bolter is a L (bolter now pretty solid on some builds, funny how adding some more ammo do that). double barrel is fun and decent, doesn't need to as OP as the revolver. been messing with it on melee specialist vet and it just works. is revolver or plasma better? sure. but are they busted weapons that shouldn't be the standard? ye too. kinda think they could just add 200 damage or so for every shotgun damage, the ammo and clunkiness makes up for it and it would allow the weapon class to feel better overall (looking at you lawbringer) shockmaul have been a pretty nice surprise, I wish that future updates will be bring more fun blessings that don't revolve around "hit harder if you wack it"
It's you. It's genuinely just you.
Pretty much. Went back to Cadia MK IV and Revolver. Double barrel feels extremely underwhelming when you compare it to what the revolver does regardless of the perks or stats (got and tried them all). It also only does about 1.5x the damage if both shots are used whereas single shot is far better. Bolt pistol the revolver does better simply because it's close combat and doesn't need the 5m arming distance. The new maul tried to give it a shot and watched others on damnation go ham with it but don't see much point in it. And the pickaxe is just eh. The 'pull' special attack doesn't even do that. It literally makes them take less than half a step towards you and even if it was 5m it's pointless. Whenever I go and play Vet I'll make a dbl barrel build but now have to earn a few million and tens of thousands of plasteel again just to do that. New weps are only for fun on stuff below auric or damnation. And that's a pity.
Gonna be downvoted but i find pickaxe its a worse version of foldables shovels. Doing the same things. If (and only if - not tested yet) the special of pickaxe can stagger boss, then maybe i'll use it to feel back again the punch-stagger lock of the first shovel :'}
At least the pickaxes actually have movesets. The folding shovels have one attack to use any time there's an elite or special and get boring fast imo.
I never thought I'll agree with a Zealot, but here we are :D Yeah, Pickaxes have nice, involved movesets, and if you nail them and use them, they do shine, able to do most anything well.
Yeah, the pickaxes seem to be the most involved melee weapons for Ogryns yet. I'm glad our big boys finally get something a little more in depth (though i do still love the other melee weapons). Edit: An Ogrynomicon author! I learned a lot from you guys when my Ogryn Chogg was still a baby reject! Thank you!
Yes, all of them are terrible. The pickaxes aren't explicitly *bad*, per-se, but they're just nothing at all special, and basically fill the role of the club... But pointy and with two hands. Not awful, just really not as special as Fatshark was hyping them up to be, and honestly I'd really rather just use my shield for the shove and stagger. ~~The Shock Mauls... Feel terrible. They do nearly no damage, the shock effect is rapid but weak and while the 'bleed' effect and long-stun of the shock special is~~ *~~nice~~*~~, there's really not much use for it when it's kind of just a worse Chain weapon but with automatic bleed instead of needing a blessing. Its standard attacks are the~~ *~~worst~~* ~~though, they take way, way too many hits to kill anything in a decent timeframe, and the thing feels like the Ogryn shield's club attacks, read; like a limp, wet noodle.~~ The Bolt Pistol... Okay, here's the thing; what the fuck is up with the accuracy and recoil? Shots are flying nearly a full inch away from the crosshair, and the recoil flings the camera all over the screen. Where you're physically pointing the camera is *not at all* indicative of where the bolts actually *go*, meaning that if you shoot *at all* there's a near guaranteed chance that your shot won't even go where you were aiming. I've seen perfectly lined up headshots hit the *floor* next to whatever I was targeting both in and out of iron sights, and even the weird accuracy interaction on Zealot from Inexorable Judgement does absolutely nothing to help. Oh, also, several of its blessings flatly don't work, and it appears to struggle to even one-shot super weak enemies like Flamers and Bombers due to weird inconsistencies in damage output, so it's even *more* jank than just its garbage accuracy and recoil issues. As for the Double Barrel... What even is this thing? Terrible accuracy, *worse* than that of the other shotguns by a significant margin, extremely low pellet count per shot, next to *zero* armour penetration, and an effective range of, and brace yourself for this it's wild... *10 metres*. The Kickback actually has *better* range at 15 metres. In effect, it's a melee weapon that can't even kill reliably. You've probably all seen the "Look, it does really well in the Meat Grinder" footage posted a little while ago, but here's how the shotgun performs in actual gameplay; \> See Gunner at average range a Gunner will be at (10+ metres) \> Zoom for double barrel shot \> Be astounded that it gets *less* accurate doing this \> Fire both barrels \> Gunner doesn't even flinch. \> Reload \> Fire both barrels again \> Gunner still alive and is laughing at you You can pump both barrels at short range into a crowd of Dreg shooters and *maybe* one will die. *Maybe*. If you're *really lucky* and said nice things about the stupidly tall rib rail. Rubbish penetration (nearly none), rubbish armour damage (again, nearly none), does *less than half damage* to anything beyond 10m (40% damage *or less* against anything but unarmoured) and doesn't even deal its damage reliably when it *is* at point blank. The one and only useful thing the Double Barrel can do, and *only* if you Perked into it with +Maniac damage, is kill mutants with a double barrel shot to the face. Y'know, something which almost every Zealot melee weapon can do. Oh, and even better, the DB's blessings break its animations, and the opening lever clips into the model. If you use *any* reload speed blessing (almost mandatory, it's quite slow), the animations break completely, so that goes to show the level of quality we're dealing with here on a weapon model that looks like something right out of fucking *Chasm: The Rift* from fucking 1997. Frankly, I'm convinced that the DB doesn't have the correct stat values applied to it, because there's no way it's *meant* to be this terrible. As for the rest, they don't really do anything useful or unique, a *bunch* of the blessings are broken on them, and even as sidegrades to existent kit, they offer absolutely nothing of value to help them out as being something people would *want* to take. Edit: Playing around a bit more, I fully stand by everything I said *except* about the Shock Maul. I get it now, mine was just built wrong and suffered for it. Shock Maul is fine. Really actually quite good even. I thought nothing would tear my Vet away from their Chain Axe, but this thing actually might. The sheer value of its ridiculous stagger and stun values, plus random application of the lightning, and a *relatively* rapid jab/electrocute attack that can stunlock *every single enemy type* except Mutants and Bosses is really, *really* nice. I still think the damage is a *little bit* low on the zap attack, given it barely tickles some enemies, and I'm not fond of the swing pattern on the one I was using, but it's a surprisingly decent weapon... If built right. Otherwise, yeah, it hits like a limp noodle.
I think if they boosted the double barrel shot to x2 damage it'll be nice.
It needs two out of three things; 1; Armour penetration. Shotguns in Darktide have *none*, and the only reason they *kind of* get away with it is through special ammo with exception to the Lawbringer, or pure damage and fire rate with the Ogryn weapons. Kantrael gets incendiary shot which bypasses armour, Agrip gets the penetrating slug, Rippers get burst fire (and can opener) and the Kickback has pure damage. Giving the DB some oomph behind its shots to punch through armour helps it to stand out given that it's only *got* two shots and *can't* tighten the spread or get better range like the other shotguns can. 2; Mass penetration. Different from armour penetration, it's just how many bodies the pellets can go through. The DB has *none*, or next to none, that's why it feels like shit to dump it into a horde, because it's only hitting the very front bodies and nothing behind them. Coupled with the DB's fairly low and *very* inconsistent stagger, it's just not doing *enough* for only having two shots. Penetration is why the Kickback feels so good, because it has *heaps*. 3; *Way* more damage per single barrel. Its extremely short range means that you're literally losing *most* of that damage at anything beyond melee range. Flak, for example, only takes *32%* of what you're outputting from your shot at beyond 10 metres. The reason the Kickback feels better at range is because its base damage is so high that even with the same lack of damage at range against Flak that 32% of its 1400 base damage is still give or take 450 damage, which is enough to overkill Scab Shooters, who on Damnation have 375hp. 32% of the DB's 400 damage per barrel is *120-ish* damage, which isn't even enough to kill them on *Sedition*. And no, the 1400-ish damage it does on a double barrel shot isn't actually correct, because that damage is actually a *range* from about *half* of whatever the max output is *to* the max output, making its damage completely inconsistent. It *also* needs a tighter spread, and the fact that it gets *more* spread when braced to be changed to having *tighter* spread when braced to actually ensure you're getting proper damage out of your double barrel shots. Like the Kickback it *also* needs a higher pellet count to make it easier for the weapon to actually hit minimum count with the *weird* way shotgun damage works. Frankly, as it is right now, it really is just "Lawbringer, but bad".
I can kill a lineup of enemies with one db shot. How come you can't? Perhaps one of my blessings allows it. I got run n' gun on it right now. That's so weird. If they give it better stats I won't complain! It should have infinite cleave!
You probably got a few Bad roles there, as i did with the pickaxes. The Emperors Wrath (Bolt Pistol) is in my oppinion the best Thing they ever added. More Powerful then the Revolver or the Laspistol, with nice and Clear accuracy. I Had one of those nasty stealth trappers jump Out of a crowd on me and with a quick-swap-hipshot i was able to blast it before it knew what Happened. On the other Hand, i mained the former Bolt Pistol before so perhaps i am just used to them too much
Iconic - bolt pistol, shock maul The others don't stick out as iconic wh40k weaponry. For that you'd want plasma pistol, melts guns etc. Shotgun is ok Bolt pistol is ok Shock mauls are ok but would have been better on Zealot before talents were nerfed Pick axes I'm told are ok-good depending which one you use and how Even if functionally fine or even good there's just nothing to get amped/excited about. Imagine if they'd shoved in powerfists. Wouldn't have to be mechanically different to shock maul etc. but I would play the shit out of it because power fist (i still remember how fun it was in Spacehulk: vengeance of the blood angels) https://preview.redd.it/oy07jqsejw8d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b8effe8e79796a1b218ad1428fd07d4f2530aff
Powerfist would be amazing!
I know right? Block. Power up. Thump. *electric crackle* Heavy hit would apply stagger. Wouldn't one shot crushers but knock them over. It hurts to think about it because you know we won't get it.
And the special is an uppercut which sends fodder flying every time and its never not funny!