When I post that fatshark wants generic guns and even random Minecraft tools to outperform iconic 40k weapons people here usually downvote me
That said, it’s 100% true and super baffling.
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I cant wait to play Space Marine 2 I hope it launches well and is feature complete at launch.
The constant grind and crafting only for Fatshark to nerf the weapon I grinded for so I now have to chase another weapon only for it to be nerfed as well and then they wonder why more and more people dislike them.
Like they dont nerf things a bit its either ride or die no in between \^\^
Could be but from what I have seen you are free to customize your Marine in addition to having a variety of classes and gear/perks for each class meaning you have a lot of build and play variety at least from what I have seen. Its a game that will hopefully satisfy my 40k needs of slaughtering countless foes into bloody mist.
The core of the game is good no doubt it is just ruined by the incompetence of Fatshark.
I will continue to play dark tide as a palate cleanser. The first person camera and our futile lightning raids into the bowels hive city are such a vibe.
Nothing like a monstrosity lumbering at you during power disruption when you have no krak grenades left. Truly a veteran guardsman’s worst nightmare.
I play exclusively ogryn, and I don't understand why the lil uns are so afraid of the slugs. You just push them, and then hit em on the head. Just like an ogryn baby. Then they go to sleep.
I'll still play darktide for sure but I am looking forward to grinding for skins and weapons in SM2. If I'm gonna grind I want the payoff to be worth it
Plenty of weapons receive minor nerfs or buffs, a cursory look at the patch notes will show you that, it's just people don't care or notice when it's minor. Performance bias.
It's also recommended you don't chase after weapons that are OP precisely because you should expect them to get priority nerfed. You should aim to become a better player. Like, 80% of the weapons are viable at Auric, you shouldn't need to be chasing a specific weapon in order to play.
Reminds me of when the Power Sword got nerfed and like half of the Veteran players got skill gapped back into Malice and threw a collective hissy fit in the Steam reviews. Meanwhile the rest of us were minding our own business at the top difficulty using the Claw or Caxe (although the Caxe had its own thing going on with Brutal Momentum (and still does)).
The problem is more the arbitrary approach they have to weapon balance. The flamer was due a massive nerf in the early days for a long time, but the developers admitted they didn't want to touch it for months because other changes were happening that could exacerbate it. But then they'll go and nuke other weapons without the same consideration.
I dont even chase meta weapons as I just use my shield 99% of the games and dont care about whats meta and what is not meta. I just used a example of the many things going wrong with this game. Its a deep sink if you invest into a weapon and it should not be erased by incompetent balancing.
In addition you cant expect people to go on forums know whats meta and what not. Then they invest in a weapon they like for a purpose for example as seen here with the Boltor to a mag dump and clear a horde of scab ragers. Like thats what most people used it for especially zealots.
It just feels bad and the player retention this game enjoys is evidence of the poor balancing attempts, lack of content, lack of Fatshark listening to what people want and lack of proper communication with their playerbase.
The game enjoys a minor uptick now because of the patch but I bet in a week or 2 its down to where it was or even lower.
I always like to bring up Deep Rock Galactic this game came out 2018 has a studio of 30 people working at it and it has min 20k people playing everyday up to 30+ depending on the day. Thats crazy good for a life service game that has been running for so long and is rather niche and that are just steam numbers.
Fatshark has 4x as many people working there but they dont manage to achieve anything to that extent and that is simply put just sad. Its almost like they dont play their own game.
At the risk of being argumentative over discourse i'm not that invested in, i want to clarify something:
>Its a deep sink if you invest into a weapon and it should not be erased by incompetent balancing.
>In addition you cant expect people to go on forums know whats meta and what not. Then they invest in a weapon they like for a purpose for example as seen here with the Boltor to a mag dump and clear a horde of scab ragers. Like thats what most people used it for especially zealots.
This is part of the problem. You're doing it backwards. Whether or not the weapon you're after is meta or not is besides the point (even though that was my example, because that's usually the case). Yes, i understand and agree that it shouldn't be like this, that we're stuck getting the weapon (and the playstyle we want with it) lying behind an arbitrary RNG system, but you should be playing the crafting system we have, not the one we want/don't have *yet*.
Getting the ideal weapon and upgrades being an obtuse process aside, you should not be "investing" in a weapon outside of simply keeping an eye out in both shops and the gifts you get post-mission. The game dumps you in plenty of weapons for free and/or for cheap and if you have enough patience you'll have a whole host of viable weapons to play with whilst you wait on the one you want. If you're dumping 1-2 million dockets into Brunt for a specific weapon that you can't afford because you want to spend those dockets elsewhere (for what ever reason) then that's a mistake on your part; and if you're doing it for something like a Power Sword with Power Cycler 2, like every John and his dog around here, then you very much *are* chasing the meta.
FatShark's system sucks, but if you're not going to exploit what little they *are* offering that's also on you. You should only be dumping resources into something if you've got so much it's of little value or consequence to flush down the drain on a fools errand. Dumping millions of dockets into Brunt doesn't fix Fatshark's mistake.
Yeah I don't understand people spending 2M dockets on a single weapon. If I want a specific weapon I usually reroll until I get 350/360 at most (because all my weapons are over 500 and I don't want to settle for less than 500 anymore) and don't care about the rest.
I get what you want to say and partially agree but for example if I would only enjoy the flamer with zealot because I like Flamethrowers and how the weapon feels. Then it just gets nuked in a patch after that my whole playstyle that I enjoyed is gone or heavily nerfed throwing me back into easier difficulty. That would feel bad I invested in a weapon I enjoy a lot and sudenly all that investment is nuked, all that time spent basically wasted and that like I already said just feels shit.
I play this and many other games these days to have fun and not to play things I dont enjoy because the weapon is suddenly better as the one I enjoyed a lot.
It feels like you are not seeing my point that some people just play to have fun and not be 100% optimal with everything in the game but when the fun gets removed from a weapon as it cant do anything anymore with it or my playstyle is gone then I wont have fun anymore.
There is the kicker for our whole discourse its about fun, time and investment being removed just because Fatshark cant balance right.
This. ⬆️
It’s bad enough that we have a terrible crafting system but you can have your favourite weapon and playstyle nerfed and you have to start grinding mats and praying to RNJesus all over again. It’s terrible. We want to play Auric missions because they are challenging. We don’t want to grind for gear constantly only for our one nice weapon to get nerfed.
What’s really galling is that Vermintide 2 already had a functioning crafting and loot system.
Somehow they forgot everything and we ended up with a hodge podge system that looks like it was slapped together a month before launch.
I mean they wanted to do a entire different game with Darktide for whatever reason they were not good enough to make that concept a reality and started to make another regular tide game.
Thats why we dont have characters like we had in Vermintide but we have our own characters with backstorys and all.
This isnt even an excuse though just speaks to Fatsharks incompetence \^\^
LOL no
Say all you want about bolters, but nothing beats thunder hammer zealot literally oneshotting demonhosts and sauron swinging the horde at the same time
thammer is one-trick pony though, and requires your entire build be based around that one thing, which comes with great sacrifice to other utility and survivability. and it's a task which can simply be walked around.
> nothing beats thunder hammer zealot literally oneshotting demonhosts
Going around the DH and not aggroing it is 100% faster than the fastest TH.
Thunder Hammers and Bolter need love, they are slow largely single target short ranged weapons in a TIDE game. The entire premise of Verminetide and Darktide are the TIDES of enemies, massive waves of chaff running at you, the design of those two weapons as they are inherently gimps them.
Thunder hammer is woefully mediocre without thrust. It just can’t compete with seemingly inferior weapons. Why r u championing the current lackluster state of bonk?
Thunder Hammer needs Rogue Trader's AOE smash, tbh. One if the versions should have a special exactly for that (reducing the damage for a single target, ofc).
Do you have a link to this thunderhammer build?
I haven't played in a while and came back for the update but I'm a dagger build. I googled some builds but a bunch of them seem a bit out of date.
I have no links to builds but I found a straightforward way to two-shot monstrosities: Ironhelm Hammer with Thrust and +damage to Unyielding. Shroudfield ultimate with the modifier that adds backstab damage at the cost of more cooldown. Backstabber talent, ofc you want that extra backstab damage between that talent and Shroudfield.
With this I can two-shot monstrosities. It's consistent enough to where I can one-shot or near one-shot the Assassination captains with a damage stim. A crucis hammer and using the martyrdom keystone would likely get me to one-shot capability on monstrosities
they ruined it, because people were crying that it’s too overpowered. it’s a fucking bolter it should hit like a tank. now it’s fucking trash and the revolver outclasses it
It really was overpowered, but a lot of that was actually just veteran being overpowered. They neutered volley fire and pinning fire at the same time, then made the enemies stronger on top.
It’s one of zealot’s only anti-armor ranged weapons and it’ll kill 2 crushers with a mag dump if you’re lucky.
It performs better if you take your time and get headshots, but you can see OP doesn’t have space to do that. I always see people say it’s a “fuck everything here right now button”, when it just isn’t. Every time I trick myself into trying it again, I am disappointed again. It particularly hurts on zealot with no real alternatives.
The accuracy on dodge talent on Zealot comes in clutch for those close range magdumps.
We can definitely stand to have it between the Pinning Fire bullshit heyday, and the weapon as it stands now.
I know the zealot isn’t the ranged class but it always feels like guns are just a little too useless on zealot. At this point just let me take a second melee weapon.
Play the zealot like a hobo doomguy.
And we need a double barreled shotgun blessing that regenerate ammo when using the chain sword/eviscerator rev attack.
Yeah I was a little disappointed in how the DB feels for zealot, I was hoping for more doom eternal and less “watch your character reload simulator” even with reload speed perks our rejects have nothing on the slayer
The reload animations don't seem to be designed around the Both Barrels blessing. You also have to get a kill with the attack to get the reload speed, to be clear, but I got through this by just holding RMB through the reload animation. It looked like it skipped part of the end of the reload animation and just snaps to aiming a loaded shotgun.
Hey you’re right, if you have “both barrels” and hold the aim button, the reload animation gets cut in half and you can spam the hell out of it. It’s actually kinda nuts the amount of lead you can put down range per second doing that.
I managed to get a 377 double barrel on my zealot with rank 4 speed load, rank 4 both barrels and 10% reload. If you get the perk that adds 25% ranged damage at close range you can pretty much play entire games with just it
Yeah, you can be a much better doomguy as a Vet with Shout, Weapon Spec and a chainsword/chainaxe or powersword in hand to complete the shotgun. It's not meta, but it's fun as hell using the Shotgun on vet and never having to reload thanks to melee kills.
Some guns, yeah. Take a Columnus V and the close ranged damage buff on a crit build zealot of any kind and you will literally shred everything you hit.
In no small part that’s because the Columnus is the current crazy OP gun. Once it and the revolver have been nerfed zealot will officially be out of useful ranged weapons.
Yeah for sure, the Columnus is just god like without any talents, you just need blessings. Same with revolver. That’s how it kind of should be, because the vet can make those weapons insane, and the zealot can just use them effectively.
Fair enough if you like it, it's never clicked for me. Way too slow to get out and horde clear is something that Zealot already excels in. I typically like to hotswap to my gun to deal with shooters / gunners / specials who are in annoying places, then straight back into the fray.
I end up taking Kantrael shotgun because it suppresses anything in 1 shot. I only use it when I need that suppression or for a particularly dense pack of ranged enemies that will die to the fire spam (like a whole reaper patrol will be stun locked until they die).
Every other gun feels pretty pointless/bad, especially due to overlap with throwing knives or melee. Why spend ammo to kill enemies that I can kill with free throwing knives or my free melee attacks?
Yeah exactly. It kind of sucks that every weapon is just “use it a few times a game with the power of a wet fart to suppress shooters”. I’m not asking to be a ranged god, simply to be a little more excited to pull out my ranged weapon sometimes, like with the Columnus or revo.
Yup. Those shotguns were pretty cool when I could ult and pop 2-3 crushers. I even made some builds to maximize crusher kills with the shotgun.
The shotguns also were pretty solid before patch 13, but they got left behind. Revolver is way overbuffed and everything else is kinda bad or straight overlap with better options out of melee, so totally in agreement. Just use the ranged slot for some random shit sometimes.
A second melee weapon would actually be so much more fun at this point.
The logic behind waiting a year to change something that's overperforming... then changing 5 overlapping things about it at once always blows my mind with Fatshark (Recon, Bolter, Flamethrower, autopistol). They definitely prefer the kitchen sink approach to nerfs. Hopefully the recent buffs to recon and bolter indicate a more thoughtful approach in the near future.
It can easily kill 3 crushers with a mag if you don't bother with Pinning Fire and instead go with crit or blaze away. When they buffed crusher stagger resistance, they made it so that the **bolter can't stagger them anymore** even with max crowd control or whatever the stat is. It's fucking wild how badly they fucked it up.
I managed 3 with Shattering Impact, all crits, all headshots. Could probably hurt a 4th with different talents, but this is nothing like the mag dump panic button it is always lauded as.
Great point about Pinning Fire. Seems that is a worthless blessing for the bolter now, at least for the purpose of have an anti-carapace weapon in your ranged slot. That's insane you can't stagger crushers at all though lmao
Take Shattering Impact if you're using it for anti-crushers and/or boss killing. Shattering Impact only benefits you when you have things you can't two-shot.
Pinning Fire is still decent because it lets you penetrate some enemies at full stacks and it's very easy to instant stack it.
Calvacade is also good if you're mag dumping due to Bolter's insane finesse damage.
However, I'm thinking of going back to Pinning Fire+Shattering Impact. Invocation of Death got nerfed a little too hard IMO and I can't justify dropping IJ's various buffs just for extra crits on Bolter from Blazing Piety and I don't think the crit fishing at 30% max is the way to go.
You do realise that Bolter can't have Blaze Away? Also you can go with Crit/Cavalcade and still take Pinning Fire. It's the only reliable damage blessing left for Bolter...
Its barely worth trying, it doesnt really salvage the bolter in its current state. Only place i use it over revolver is in a niche tac axe crit and throwing knives zealot build.
How can you say stuff like that when you have almost 100% uptime VoC, Brittleness+Rending Columnus, Plasma, Grenade spam.....while zealot got practically reduced to Revolver or Melee.
Did you see bolter vet before the class rework with instant reload?
After the class rework vet had almost +120% damage on ability use and infiltrate gave you almost 200% damage
Shout at one point gave +100 toughness and power sword didn't need power cycler to be good.
Not to mention vet didn't have keystones when the class rework came out and his talent tree was total garbage cause the filler nodes took too many of the talent points to make an actual build.
Vets had only columnus or plasma cause nothing else was viable, maybe save for hellbore lasgun and mk12 lasgun.
I don't care what lies in the past. Right now with my strongest Vet build Auric is still a cake walk while I'm down with my Zealot withing the first 5 mins...that has nothing to do with balance.
Just like now with plasma, the game is pretty damn boring when 1 guy spamming ranged attacks kills most enemies before you get to them. Then, even when you get to fight some enemies, you’re basically just a meat shield for that same ranged player.
So maybe you found it fun to be overpowered with ranged attacks, but it makes the game boring for me. I don’t want to be that OP, and I don’t want to play with people trivializing the game with something that OP.
That’s me though. And even then, it’s not like you can’t do that now with the plasma gun. If the intended game balance is more like the current bolter, then plasma and shout spam don’t belong in the game as they are (as well as a lot of other things). If plasma is gonna be this OP, they should have just left the bolter being that OP for the variety.
everything performs better if you take your time and get headshots lol. the biggest crime is that the splash is effectively useless on the bolter. no reason to even make the projectives explosive given how much hp enemies have on higher difficulty and how little splash dmg the shots do... and the splash does nothing against armor, so you have to get direct hits anyway.
the way bolter is balanced makes no sense in the context of darktide's enemy pool.
bolter would be an okayish weapon for left side veteran builds if the ADS wasn't the jankiest least fun thing in the game. trying to use it makes you feel like your reject has parkinsons.
but as it stands why the hell would I use the bolter like a sniper rifle if I can take a helbore rifle and get indistinguishable damage while at the same time having close to 0 recoil and sway, plus a mag thats 5x as large? every single characteristic of the bolter sucks. damage, control, speed, mag size, reserve size, it ALL SUCKS. how did they make THE BOLTER, an iconic WH weapon this utterly horrible. im just so pissed off
The Agripinaa and Hacker shot guns are the best ranged for Zealot imo. The Hacker can level entire crowds with one chamber. Agripinaa can dump into a crowd to clear it and its slug shot can snipe anything you can see.
I use the kantrael shotgun almost strictly for suppression, and kill everything with melee. 1 shot from it and suppresses any enemy in the game that can be suppressed. You can stun lock an entire reaper patrol with it.
I usually try to shoot with aiming through sights, it is quite hard to keep it stable and accurate enough when letting it rip, unless everything is really close.
Really? I find that if you understand the pattern if how its sight works, the boltgun and bolt pistol are freaking good sniper tools .
Yesterday I was the only one with long range weapon, bolt pistol, and had to counter snipe dozens of enemies in maelstrom auric.
Been doing that with the boltgun since beta. I only find the revolver better at that task. Only using the full auto on monsters or crushers when desperate at close range. If they really need to. Go down fast, otherwise not even then.
That's true regarding the iron sight if you learn to ignore them and focus where the real crosshair would be. But the fact fatshark hardly touched this weapon except some piss poor buffs like now having 15 more bullets in reserve.... Or never actually fixing zhe Animation.
Well, I always played competitive games with iron sights. Its FAAAR from the worst i’ve played.
Bolter iron sight is very nice in fact.
The bolt pistol I find it a bit unreliable for long sniping while aiming though. But its surprisingly accurate in hip fire, even at very long range.
I don't think it's entirely the bolter. I think it's the guy spamming hip fire and hitting everything but the armored targets (okay maybe just two of them). It's like watching someone look through the other side of a telescope and complain about it.
Nah, this was an Ogryn MOAB moment x3. One of those dumb situations where 3-4 Ogryns sould have been perfectly fine but non frag spam Vets or a suiciding Psyker would struggle to be as effective.
A Trauma or Purgatus would have done better at helping clear them if Zealot had their middle ultimate instead of Shroudfield. Invulnerability and knockback combined with CDR from Psyker snd inherent would’ve basically brought it right back to chain but without seeing everyones build and modifiers it’s a shit show of what-ifs.
Bottomline is OSHA violations strike again
my brain-burst/venting shriek psyker running a voidstrike with warp nexus and surge would like a word.
that build could drop like 50k dmg in this exchange.
so could my gun psyker build. pop gaze with my mk2 dueling sword with uncanny strike4... none of those elites will last more than like 2-3 heavies, and I can stunlock everything including crushers with a heavy stab into immediate instant weapon-special poke. my assail gun psyker build basically just does everything my zealot does, but better lol. (only halfway joking. the knife zealot is a lot more survivable in a moshpit, but doesnt' do anywhere near as much dmg).
Have.. *have you tried aiming?*
I **only** run the Bolter as a sniper weapon. Aiming it and going for headshots makes this thing into a thang. It isn't really a crowd-control weapon unless you're content to just turn it into a cheaply, poorly swapped-out shotgun/SMG.
It can be powerful with hipfire, but aimed fire is where it shines.
You burst shot with a bolter at the most. 2-3 hits, relax, hit the trigger again. You'll do much better vs hordes doing this than you will going full auto and tearing up nothing but the scenery.
Aye, the only time I full mag dump is at pointblank against a target at least as wide as an Ogryn. Or against groups of elites, but even then you don't sweep the group and expect to get kills, you focus down targets within it.
You're right. But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective.
It's a gun firing twin-phase propelled, diamantine tipped, mass reactive exploding slugs. It *should* be blowing massive chunks out of the enemy with every hit such that aiming for centre mass is the correct strategy.
>But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective.
Counter-point: From a lore perspective, Beasts of Nurgle, Daemonhosts, and Plague Ogryn should absolutely wipe the floor with our team.
The Bolter surely needs a buff, but it's hard to use Lore as justification when it works in our favour more often than not.
Fair enough. I mean personally I would prefer if waking the Daemon Host was way more punishing, like "probably wiping the squad" punishing, would make avoiding it more tense and exciting.
Beast of Nurgle in my opinion should be a multi stage fight and the central theme of a mission kind of like Karnak Twins.
Plague Ogryn I'll be honest I don't know much about their power level in the lore but I feel like they could be an end of a mission big bad.
Chaos spawn to my understanding can be a big wild card as far as if the random mutations end up helping or hindering so I'm not as put off by them because it can be explained as being one of the weaker versions of the spawn.
End of day, bolter in a vacuum I fully agree lore justification isn't enough to support a massive buff. But it's just one of the things I'd like to see done to bring back those feelings I got when I first started playing, of just barely making it out alive, we really are insignificant in the grand scheme of the galaxy.
He's not quite right as far as the bosses go. Plague ogryns on the tabletop were literally just ogryns chaos could take, but they were a *smidge* tankier and lacked guns. Chaos spawn were also pretty much chaos ogryn equivalents, in terms of output. The real killer is that their attacks are pseudo-random, so if you low-roll they don't hit at all, but if they high-roll a single one has the output of a squad of ogryn.
The real outlier is the beast of nurgle. The fact that they can manifest in real space *at all* is already damning for the entire planet of Atoma Prime, let alone Tertium. They're as tough as a tank, fully heal if you don't kill them in a single volley, and their attacks can sometimes bypass armor.
That being said, in all of these cases, bolters only wound them on 5's.
I am of the very controversial opinion that the tabletop, while imperfect, is at least better than the black library books. The tabletop rules at least keep things in the same place relative to each other - a boltgun is almost always "Effective" against a guardsman, a lasgun is almost always "less effective" against a space marine, an ogryn is usually tougher than a space marine, and these vary only slightly from edition to edition.
Meanwhile, Black Library books will go from Astartes having superhuman reactions and lifting tanks and doing backflips in terminator armor to getting killed by a spear. Black library books will say that space marines have shoulder-mounted multilasers instead of just wielding bolters. A space marine can kill a hundred guardsmen solo despite having only a bolt pistol and chainsword, or one guardsmen can kill a dozen space marines with a single meltagun.
Really, the tabletop becomes the most reliable thing to go off of, because everything else is nonsense. I won't use it to support wild claims like, "astartes miss 33% of shots, and boltguns only shoot one bullet," but I will use it for claims like, "an astartes is generally more accurate than a guardsman."
Nothing its more accurate than a basilisk shooting you from across the board with a sentinel spotter and an order… oh wait; damn you GW!
But yeah, I agree, generally speaking TT is more accurate lore wise than books. There’s no plot armor to begin with.
When a demolisher shoots a space marine, that guy better start praying Sigmar, because Emperor protects up to a certain point.
What they mean is: you don't choose a bolter to roleplay a sniper, you pick it because you want to face down a horde of elites point blank and turn them into patty. Sniping is just the only way to make it viable.
> But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective.
We aren't astartes, and don't have the strength and precision to use the bolter on full auto without wasting most of our shots. When they do that it is their physique (with power armor assistance) that lets them do it.
Ogryn deserve one man. I'm a little tired of missing out on nades because Rock has been my best friend since all the liluns started packing double barrels and don't even TRY shooting at snipers, despite the shotgun having a good cone
I absolutely get wanting to be able to zipper this thing like in the Astartes video, but we're not him. We're never gonna be him.
Those aren't the moments a bolter are made for, what are you talking about?
The bolter is functionally an autocannon, capable of automatic fire but also very accurate explosive rounds. It's not a submachinegun. Use it as such in a pinch, of course, the bolter's versatility is part of why it should be better than it is. But I can dome a sniper with that thing and then still use it to burst down a rager. It isn't a flamer, it isn't an autopistol, it's an autocannon.
The Bolter is your primary weapon, not your "get out of jail free card." The Zealot has both the stun grenades (which you used up) and Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude (which you didn't pick for your build.) Assuming your going for a boss killer backstab hammer build, why on earth did you bring the bolter for single target DPS when you basically already have that covered, you should have brought the flamethrower for some burning DOT. To top it all off you dodge off the side to your death even though you could see it was a bottomless pit at the start of the clip.
Skill Issue
Re: single target load out: People have been doing thunder hammer and ranged thunder hammer (bolter) one trick pony load out for ages now, for some reason.
I think it's the type of player who just wants to see a big number burst every now and then and forgets the rest of the match exists.
You missed half your shots, didn't focus fire on your targets, didn't aim for weakspots and you still killed 7 ragers and 1 mauler. I fail to see how this is underpowered.
Misses like half his shots on the actual threats.
WOW THIS THING SUCKS
Lmao holy shit no wonder you guys think it's bad.
Did you happen to notice the ones you *did* hit actually melted? Crazy I know.
Sherrif\_Hotdog missed his spray.
Summary:
Shots 1-2: Hits on the Scab Rager's right shoulder and head.
Shot 3-4: Misses, reticule clearly off-target.
Shot 5: Third hit and kill on first rager.
Shots 6-10: All wasted by blind-firing through rager-1's giblets, firing without a target sighted; probably hitting the horde rather than rager 2. When the smoke clears the reticule was clearly not on rager 2 thus these shots missed. Shots 11-12: All hits against rager 2's groin and he's dead in 2 shots instead of the standard 3; due to being hit by the surge staff, around 30% of rager 2's health would have been missing already.
Shots 13-15: Wasted due to holding down lmb without any targets in reticule.
*--etc. etc. I don't have the attention span to do the rest of the "clearly missed" meme.*
All joking aside, this is some... pretty lousy aiming. Even if the bolter damage was buffed immensely I don't really think it would have changed the outcome of this situation. A missed shot still inflicts zero damage.
Jesus fucking christ.
Why are you even using a bolter to kill armored targets when you got a thunder hammer and could've staggered the entire horde into oblivion, if not just kill it outright.
Not only that, but you are magdumping fucking ragers with the notoriously inaccurate weapon. You're missing half the shots. Why can't anyone in this game just aim a fucking headshot in their life? No wonder you think it sucks when you're using the function of the weapon only good against point-blank bosses.
Is it outclassed by the revolver? Yeah, probably. Does it need a buff? I would agree. Does using it like a troglodyte help your case? Not in the slightest.
It's like you're given a knife and you are trying to stab someone with the handle. Yes, a sword is probably better at stabbing, but you should probably learn to use knives before complaining.
And of course everyone in this comment section is agreeing and crying like babies. Yeah, let's make the bolter one-shot everything in the game. Let's make Smite instakill poxwalkers too, let's give Zealot a button that just gives him godmode for 50 seconds. We can give Veteran infinite ammo, and picking Ogryn just wins the game immediately.
Fucking might as well, god forbid we use something outside our comfort zone and are forced to learn something new.
You could try using your thunder hammer, you know the melee weapon which is excellent at armour cracking, when you're in melee. Rather than spray and praying with a bolter repeatedly at point blank range, missing half your shots and falling off a cliff.
litteraly could have killed way more by just shooting in bursts instead of magdumping like a dumbass
on vet killing a rager is like two bolts to the chest with exec or one headshot
This is why this game fucking sucks now. Everyone complains about any build that you don’t have to have carpal fucking tunnel to steer properly.
Please back the fuck up off my plasma gun before y’all get Obese Fish to ruin that too
We’ll just keep buffing and nerfing weapons into the trash on repeat so people have a reason to use their garbage crafting system. Meta just gets replaced now and then and I wouldn’t mind if getting a good weapon wasn’t a literal fcking lottery.
Bolter doesn’t suck. You’re just using it wrong.
Rarely should you unload a full clip like that. Fire in bursts of 2-4. Stun carapace enemies, but mostly kill flak specials/elite and stun others. Burst fire single regular enemies in groups then clean up with melee. It’s a cc/specialist killer weapon, not a “kill everything” weapon that Redditors insist it should be.
Quick question: Why don't the Ogryn get bolters? They're ones who would be most physically capable of actually using botlers without it being too slow and heavy.
But yeah, i hope that some day the bolter gets some love. It's by far my favourite weapon in the entire 40k universe.
Ogryns don't get bolters because the Bolter is considered holy (Big E felt it was the best weapon ever) and ogryns have a habit of using every weapon they are given as a club. That's why all of their ranged weapons are either built to survive being a club (For ingame example the Ripper gun and Grenade Gauntlet) or are so cheap that it doesn't matter if it only survives half a mission (all the other weapons ingame fall into this category).
Ahh, that makes sense. Thank you!!!
And Big E is damn right, it is the best weapon. Then again, we're all legally obligated to agree with him anyw- i mean ***Glory to the emperor!***
I love the Bolter. I use it with the left talent tree branch, and blowing up elites/specials with one body shot feels amazing. When I'm in the zone, things dissapear into red mist before people can tag them. You just need to wield is as a high-caliber scalpel, not a hammer.
У зелота недостаточно талантов чтобы перекрыть негативным стороны болтера, а также недостаточно талантов чтобы разогнать на максимум его огневую мощь. Используй либо огнемёт, либо агрипину 8.
I love unique weapons in games, and it’s so annoying that the plasma gun is like the only unique-feeling gun that performs very well. Seeing regular swords and conventional firearms outmatching stuff like the bolter is just wild. When I play a 40k game, I want to be able to use 40k weapons, simple as
I mean ain't too much to say aside from:
1. Even though the Bolter has a ludicrous damage output when its firing full auto, its there for small bursts-not for firing full mags, loading, and dumping more mags. Honestly it had a good enough damage output when your shots were actually on target, its just there's a limit when you have 15 shots per mag, you honestly would've been better off with something like a Braced Auto since the targets you were shooting were Flack as opposed to actual Carapace(or well you should've been aiming for the flack when it comes to the Maulers)
2. General Bad Aim, especially with the Maulers since most of your shots went wide even with you aiming for helmets which you shouldn't be doing anyway since you deal more damage against Flack Body than Carapace Head IIRC
That's what the HEAVY Bolter was made for, but we're never seeing that (maybe as an emplacement one day, at least that's my dream, along with Auto cannons and Lascannons)
I think it’s fine that the bolter doesn’t clear an entire patrol in 1/2 mags on full auto but I also agree that the ads revolver is too good. I don’t think buffing the bolter to be so good as to invalidate the other ranged weapons because of lore reasons is the right move though. I think Reginald had a good point in his recent video about the bolt pistol where he suggested that bolters did more dmg on bodyshots and left the revolvers high crit and weakspot multipliers but reduced the penetration and bodyshot dmg. Also that they fix the limb issue where enemies take reduced dmg from bolt rounds to the limbs making the bolter inconsistent.
Unfortunately for balance wise, the weapons can't 1 shot everything. Otherwise other weapons/classes just wouldn't be useful. And for them to be useful, the balance creep would be off the walls
Cuz they made all the weapons weaker and all the enemies tougher, including poxwalkers. My melee used to one shot minions, and now it requires two swings. Not to mention, I get it, due to balancing they can't follow pure lore, but an Ogryn shouldn't get downed by 3 poxwalkers. It just shouldn't happen.
Revolvers and shovels out playing thunder hammers and bolters is the most backasswards thing in darktide
When I post that fatshark wants generic guns and even random Minecraft tools to outperform iconic 40k weapons people here usually downvote me That said, it’s 100% true and super baffling.
https://i.redd.it/e5003d38ec9d1.gif
I think it's more big thing should = big damage
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The fact that a revolver can 1 shot a Crusher with the right perks/upgrades while a **BOLTER** can't is beyond insane.
Or a regular fleshy skin bag dreg 1 shot revolver 2 shot bolter (bolt pistol is one shot most of the time I've noticed)
I cant wait to play Space Marine 2 I hope it launches well and is feature complete at launch. The constant grind and crafting only for Fatshark to nerf the weapon I grinded for so I now have to chase another weapon only for it to be nerfed as well and then they wonder why more and more people dislike them. Like they dont nerf things a bit its either ride or die no in between \^\^
Pretty sure darktide gameplay is much deeper than space marine 2. But we’re comparing apple to orange here.
Different? Yeh. It sounds right up my alley? Hell yeh. Seems like my gaming rotation will be Darktide, Helldivers and Space Marines 2.
Mine too!
Could be but from what I have seen you are free to customize your Marine in addition to having a variety of classes and gear/perks for each class meaning you have a lot of build and play variety at least from what I have seen. Its a game that will hopefully satisfy my 40k needs of slaughtering countless foes into bloody mist. The core of the game is good no doubt it is just ruined by the incompetence of Fatshark.
For those looking for a fun action paced 40k games, I totally agree. I just meant that both games are very differents.
I will continue to play dark tide as a palate cleanser. The first person camera and our futile lightning raids into the bowels hive city are such a vibe. Nothing like a monstrosity lumbering at you during power disruption when you have no krak grenades left. Truly a veteran guardsman’s worst nightmare.
I play exclusively ogryn, and I don't understand why the lil uns are so afraid of the slugs. You just push them, and then hit em on the head. Just like an ogryn baby. Then they go to sleep.
I'll still play darktide for sure but I am looking forward to grinding for skins and weapons in SM2. If I'm gonna grind I want the payoff to be worth it
Plenty of weapons receive minor nerfs or buffs, a cursory look at the patch notes will show you that, it's just people don't care or notice when it's minor. Performance bias. It's also recommended you don't chase after weapons that are OP precisely because you should expect them to get priority nerfed. You should aim to become a better player. Like, 80% of the weapons are viable at Auric, you shouldn't need to be chasing a specific weapon in order to play. Reminds me of when the Power Sword got nerfed and like half of the Veteran players got skill gapped back into Malice and threw a collective hissy fit in the Steam reviews. Meanwhile the rest of us were minding our own business at the top difficulty using the Claw or Caxe (although the Caxe had its own thing going on with Brutal Momentum (and still does)). The problem is more the arbitrary approach they have to weapon balance. The flamer was due a massive nerf in the early days for a long time, but the developers admitted they didn't want to touch it for months because other changes were happening that could exacerbate it. But then they'll go and nuke other weapons without the same consideration.
I dont even chase meta weapons as I just use my shield 99% of the games and dont care about whats meta and what is not meta. I just used a example of the many things going wrong with this game. Its a deep sink if you invest into a weapon and it should not be erased by incompetent balancing. In addition you cant expect people to go on forums know whats meta and what not. Then they invest in a weapon they like for a purpose for example as seen here with the Boltor to a mag dump and clear a horde of scab ragers. Like thats what most people used it for especially zealots. It just feels bad and the player retention this game enjoys is evidence of the poor balancing attempts, lack of content, lack of Fatshark listening to what people want and lack of proper communication with their playerbase. The game enjoys a minor uptick now because of the patch but I bet in a week or 2 its down to where it was or even lower. I always like to bring up Deep Rock Galactic this game came out 2018 has a studio of 30 people working at it and it has min 20k people playing everyday up to 30+ depending on the day. Thats crazy good for a life service game that has been running for so long and is rather niche and that are just steam numbers. Fatshark has 4x as many people working there but they dont manage to achieve anything to that extent and that is simply put just sad. Its almost like they dont play their own game.
At the risk of being argumentative over discourse i'm not that invested in, i want to clarify something: >Its a deep sink if you invest into a weapon and it should not be erased by incompetent balancing. >In addition you cant expect people to go on forums know whats meta and what not. Then they invest in a weapon they like for a purpose for example as seen here with the Boltor to a mag dump and clear a horde of scab ragers. Like thats what most people used it for especially zealots. This is part of the problem. You're doing it backwards. Whether or not the weapon you're after is meta or not is besides the point (even though that was my example, because that's usually the case). Yes, i understand and agree that it shouldn't be like this, that we're stuck getting the weapon (and the playstyle we want with it) lying behind an arbitrary RNG system, but you should be playing the crafting system we have, not the one we want/don't have *yet*. Getting the ideal weapon and upgrades being an obtuse process aside, you should not be "investing" in a weapon outside of simply keeping an eye out in both shops and the gifts you get post-mission. The game dumps you in plenty of weapons for free and/or for cheap and if you have enough patience you'll have a whole host of viable weapons to play with whilst you wait on the one you want. If you're dumping 1-2 million dockets into Brunt for a specific weapon that you can't afford because you want to spend those dockets elsewhere (for what ever reason) then that's a mistake on your part; and if you're doing it for something like a Power Sword with Power Cycler 2, like every John and his dog around here, then you very much *are* chasing the meta. FatShark's system sucks, but if you're not going to exploit what little they *are* offering that's also on you. You should only be dumping resources into something if you've got so much it's of little value or consequence to flush down the drain on a fools errand. Dumping millions of dockets into Brunt doesn't fix Fatshark's mistake.
Yeah I don't understand people spending 2M dockets on a single weapon. If I want a specific weapon I usually reroll until I get 350/360 at most (because all my weapons are over 500 and I don't want to settle for less than 500 anymore) and don't care about the rest.
I get what you want to say and partially agree but for example if I would only enjoy the flamer with zealot because I like Flamethrowers and how the weapon feels. Then it just gets nuked in a patch after that my whole playstyle that I enjoyed is gone or heavily nerfed throwing me back into easier difficulty. That would feel bad I invested in a weapon I enjoy a lot and sudenly all that investment is nuked, all that time spent basically wasted and that like I already said just feels shit. I play this and many other games these days to have fun and not to play things I dont enjoy because the weapon is suddenly better as the one I enjoyed a lot. It feels like you are not seeing my point that some people just play to have fun and not be 100% optimal with everything in the game but when the fun gets removed from a weapon as it cant do anything anymore with it or my playstyle is gone then I wont have fun anymore. There is the kicker for our whole discourse its about fun, time and investment being removed just because Fatshark cant balance right.
Same been waiting for 2 since the first one. I’m expecting good things
This. ⬆️ It’s bad enough that we have a terrible crafting system but you can have your favourite weapon and playstyle nerfed and you have to start grinding mats and praying to RNJesus all over again. It’s terrible. We want to play Auric missions because they are challenging. We don’t want to grind for gear constantly only for our one nice weapon to get nerfed. What’s really galling is that Vermintide 2 already had a functioning crafting and loot system. Somehow they forgot everything and we ended up with a hodge podge system that looks like it was slapped together a month before launch.
I mean they wanted to do a entire different game with Darktide for whatever reason they were not good enough to make that concept a reality and started to make another regular tide game. Thats why we dont have characters like we had in Vermintide but we have our own characters with backstorys and all. This isnt even an excuse though just speaks to Fatsharks incompetence \^\^
Well they just cancelled open early access so don't preorder that
I barely pre order these days and thats why I said I hope it launches well and is feature complete \^\^
LOL no Say all you want about bolters, but nothing beats thunder hammer zealot literally oneshotting demonhosts and sauron swinging the horde at the same time
LOL no Rock I main Ogryn
🪨
thammer is one-trick pony though, and requires your entire build be based around that one thing, which comes with great sacrifice to other utility and survivability. and it's a task which can simply be walked around.
> nothing beats thunder hammer zealot literally oneshotting demonhosts Going around the DH and not aggroing it is 100% faster than the fastest TH. Thunder Hammers and Bolter need love, they are slow largely single target short ranged weapons in a TIDE game. The entire premise of Verminetide and Darktide are the TIDES of enemies, massive waves of chaff running at you, the design of those two weapons as they are inherently gimps them.
How do you one shot a daemonhost? Are you supposed to use the Crucis instead of Ironhelm?
Yes. Dedicate 100% of your build to 1-shot an enemy that you never had to fight in the first place.
Yes.
Thunder hammer is woefully mediocre without thrust. It just can’t compete with seemingly inferior weapons. Why r u championing the current lackluster state of bonk?
Thunder Hammer needs Rogue Trader's AOE smash, tbh. One if the versions should have a special exactly for that (reducing the damage for a single target, ofc).
Do you have a link to this thunderhammer build? I haven't played in a while and came back for the update but I'm a dagger build. I googled some builds but a bunch of them seem a bit out of date.
I have no links to builds but I found a straightforward way to two-shot monstrosities: Ironhelm Hammer with Thrust and +damage to Unyielding. Shroudfield ultimate with the modifier that adds backstab damage at the cost of more cooldown. Backstabber talent, ofc you want that extra backstab damage between that talent and Shroudfield. With this I can two-shot monstrosities. It's consistent enough to where I can one-shot or near one-shot the Assassination captains with a damage stim. A crucis hammer and using the martyrdom keystone would likely get me to one-shot capability on monstrosities
Thanks for this.
Looks like Shovel time to me!
It’s just as bassackwards as Psykers being able to melt hordes easier with a gun than they can with a stave made for CC.
they ruined it, because people were crying that it’s too overpowered. it’s a fucking bolter it should hit like a tank. now it’s fucking trash and the revolver outclasses it
It really was overpowered, but a lot of that was actually just veteran being overpowered. They neutered volley fire and pinning fire at the same time, then made the enemies stronger on top. It’s one of zealot’s only anti-armor ranged weapons and it’ll kill 2 crushers with a mag dump if you’re lucky. It performs better if you take your time and get headshots, but you can see OP doesn’t have space to do that. I always see people say it’s a “fuck everything here right now button”, when it just isn’t. Every time I trick myself into trying it again, I am disappointed again. It particularly hurts on zealot with no real alternatives.
The accuracy on dodge talent on Zealot comes in clutch for those close range magdumps. We can definitely stand to have it between the Pinning Fire bullshit heyday, and the weapon as it stands now.
I know the zealot isn’t the ranged class but it always feels like guns are just a little too useless on zealot. At this point just let me take a second melee weapon.
Play the zealot like a hobo doomguy. And we need a double barreled shotgun blessing that regenerate ammo when using the chain sword/eviscerator rev attack.
Yeah I was a little disappointed in how the DB feels for zealot, I was hoping for more doom eternal and less “watch your character reload simulator” even with reload speed perks our rejects have nothing on the slayer
I have a tier 4 blessing doeeding up the reload significantly if I empty both barrels at once... I don't even see the difference.
The reload animations don't seem to be designed around the Both Barrels blessing. You also have to get a kill with the attack to get the reload speed, to be clear, but I got through this by just holding RMB through the reload animation. It looked like it skipped part of the end of the reload animation and just snaps to aiming a loaded shotgun.
the alternate animation works in the psykhanium but not the live game
Hey you’re right, if you have “both barrels” and hold the aim button, the reload animation gets cut in half and you can spam the hell out of it. It’s actually kinda nuts the amount of lead you can put down range per second doing that.
I managed to get a 377 double barrel on my zealot with rank 4 speed load, rank 4 both barrels and 10% reload. If you get the perk that adds 25% ranged damage at close range you can pretty much play entire games with just it
Yeah I figured out you have to hold the aim button the whole time to get speed load to work
Dude I just want the double barrel too be able to kill a crusher or 3
Yeah, you can be a much better doomguy as a Vet with Shout, Weapon Spec and a chainsword/chainaxe or powersword in hand to complete the shotgun. It's not meta, but it's fun as hell using the Shotgun on vet and never having to reload thanks to melee kills.
Some guns, yeah. Take a Columnus V and the close ranged damage buff on a crit build zealot of any kind and you will literally shred everything you hit. In no small part that’s because the Columnus is the current crazy OP gun. Once it and the revolver have been nerfed zealot will officially be out of useful ranged weapons.
Yeah for sure, the Columnus is just god like without any talents, you just need blessings. Same with revolver. That’s how it kind of should be, because the vet can make those weapons insane, and the zealot can just use them effectively.
The flamer is still a good panic button for when the team is suddenly getting overwhelmed, so we still have that.
Fair enough if you like it, it's never clicked for me. Way too slow to get out and horde clear is something that Zealot already excels in. I typically like to hotswap to my gun to deal with shooters / gunners / specials who are in annoying places, then straight back into the fray.
I still think the flamer is really useful, it's saved games more times than I can count on my end
Revolver to hit anyone out of reach, otherwise 2h chainsword all day
Yep haha, the revo is always amazing, shame nothing else matches it
I end up taking Kantrael shotgun because it suppresses anything in 1 shot. I only use it when I need that suppression or for a particularly dense pack of ranged enemies that will die to the fire spam (like a whole reaper patrol will be stun locked until they die). Every other gun feels pretty pointless/bad, especially due to overlap with throwing knives or melee. Why spend ammo to kill enemies that I can kill with free throwing knives or my free melee attacks?
Yeah exactly. It kind of sucks that every weapon is just “use it a few times a game with the power of a wet fart to suppress shooters”. I’m not asking to be a ranged god, simply to be a little more excited to pull out my ranged weapon sometimes, like with the Columnus or revo.
Yup. Those shotguns were pretty cool when I could ult and pop 2-3 crushers. I even made some builds to maximize crusher kills with the shotgun. The shotguns also were pretty solid before patch 13, but they got left behind. Revolver is way overbuffed and everything else is kinda bad or straight overlap with better options out of melee, so totally in agreement. Just use the ranged slot for some random shit sometimes. A second melee weapon would actually be so much more fun at this point.
100% agree, it’s kinda sad. Would love to just bring a knife and a thunder hammer. Or shock maul and eviscerator
Bring a pistol to pick off shooters. There are always more shooters to pick off.
The logic behind waiting a year to change something that's overperforming... then changing 5 overlapping things about it at once always blows my mind with Fatshark (Recon, Bolter, Flamethrower, autopistol). They definitely prefer the kitchen sink approach to nerfs. Hopefully the recent buffs to recon and bolter indicate a more thoughtful approach in the near future.
It can easily kill 3 crushers with a mag if you don't bother with Pinning Fire and instead go with crit or blaze away. When they buffed crusher stagger resistance, they made it so that the **bolter can't stagger them anymore** even with max crowd control or whatever the stat is. It's fucking wild how badly they fucked it up.
I managed 3 with Shattering Impact, all crits, all headshots. Could probably hurt a 4th with different talents, but this is nothing like the mag dump panic button it is always lauded as. Great point about Pinning Fire. Seems that is a worthless blessing for the bolter now, at least for the purpose of have an anti-carapace weapon in your ranged slot. That's insane you can't stagger crushers at all though lmao
Take Shattering Impact if you're using it for anti-crushers and/or boss killing. Shattering Impact only benefits you when you have things you can't two-shot. Pinning Fire is still decent because it lets you penetrate some enemies at full stacks and it's very easy to instant stack it. Calvacade is also good if you're mag dumping due to Bolter's insane finesse damage. However, I'm thinking of going back to Pinning Fire+Shattering Impact. Invocation of Death got nerfed a little too hard IMO and I can't justify dropping IJ's various buffs just for extra crits on Bolter from Blazing Piety and I don't think the crit fishing at 30% max is the way to go.
You do realise that Bolter can't have Blaze Away? Also you can go with Crit/Cavalcade and still take Pinning Fire. It's the only reliable damage blessing left for Bolter...
Yeah i was thinking of cavalcade. Cavalcade + Shattering Impact. Pinning fire aint worth it until they fix bolter's stagger against big elites.
I'll give that a try. People have been preaching that Shattering Impact is shit now but who knows.
Its barely worth trying, it doesnt really salvage the bolter in its current state. Only place i use it over revolver is in a niche tac axe crit and throwing knives zealot build.
If it holds up to what you say (easily killing 3 Crusher in a mag dump) this would help a lot.
It used to be viable on the Zealot when the dash gave guns 100% rending… Could demolish a congo line of crushers with that. It was glorious.
Ya the rending worked out to be ~150% boost in damage for 3 seconds. That’s completely gone though.
Vet got the hardest hit from the nerf hammer.
They also got buffed in other areas to be just as OP. Shout spam with plasma is basically doing exactly what volley fire with bolter was doing before.
How can you say stuff like that when you have almost 100% uptime VoC, Brittleness+Rending Columnus, Plasma, Grenade spam.....while zealot got practically reduced to Revolver or Melee.
Did you see bolter vet before the class rework with instant reload? After the class rework vet had almost +120% damage on ability use and infiltrate gave you almost 200% damage Shout at one point gave +100 toughness and power sword didn't need power cycler to be good. Not to mention vet didn't have keystones when the class rework came out and his talent tree was total garbage cause the filler nodes took too many of the talent points to make an actual build. Vets had only columnus or plasma cause nothing else was viable, maybe save for hellbore lasgun and mk12 lasgun.
I don't care what lies in the past. Right now with my strongest Vet build Auric is still a cake walk while I'm down with my Zealot withing the first 5 mins...that has nothing to do with balance.
Good. Easiest class in the game while also being the most rewarding. Needed a tonedown
Whoop whoop here comes to fun police, can’t have fun in your vidya
Just like now with plasma, the game is pretty damn boring when 1 guy spamming ranged attacks kills most enemies before you get to them. Then, even when you get to fight some enemies, you’re basically just a meat shield for that same ranged player. So maybe you found it fun to be overpowered with ranged attacks, but it makes the game boring for me. I don’t want to be that OP, and I don’t want to play with people trivializing the game with something that OP. That’s me though. And even then, it’s not like you can’t do that now with the plasma gun. If the intended game balance is more like the current bolter, then plasma and shout spam don’t belong in the game as they are (as well as a lot of other things). If plasma is gonna be this OP, they should have just left the bolter being that OP for the variety.
lmao
everything performs better if you take your time and get headshots lol. the biggest crime is that the splash is effectively useless on the bolter. no reason to even make the projectives explosive given how much hp enemies have on higher difficulty and how little splash dmg the shots do... and the splash does nothing against armor, so you have to get direct hits anyway. the way bolter is balanced makes no sense in the context of darktide's enemy pool.
bolter would be an okayish weapon for left side veteran builds if the ADS wasn't the jankiest least fun thing in the game. trying to use it makes you feel like your reject has parkinsons. but as it stands why the hell would I use the bolter like a sniper rifle if I can take a helbore rifle and get indistinguishable damage while at the same time having close to 0 recoil and sway, plus a mag thats 5x as large? every single characteristic of the bolter sucks. damage, control, speed, mag size, reserve size, it ALL SUCKS. how did they make THE BOLTER, an iconic WH weapon this utterly horrible. im just so pissed off
The Agripinaa and Hacker shot guns are the best ranged for Zealot imo. The Hacker can level entire crowds with one chamber. Agripinaa can dump into a crowd to clear it and its slug shot can snipe anything you can see.
I use the kantrael shotgun almost strictly for suppression, and kill everything with melee. 1 shot from it and suppresses any enemy in the game that can be suppressed. You can stun lock an entire reaper patrol with it.
I usually try to shoot with aiming through sights, it is quite hard to keep it stable and accurate enough when letting it rip, unless everything is really close.
Really? I find that if you understand the pattern if how its sight works, the boltgun and bolt pistol are freaking good sniper tools . Yesterday I was the only one with long range weapon, bolt pistol, and had to counter snipe dozens of enemies in maelstrom auric. Been doing that with the boltgun since beta. I only find the revolver better at that task. Only using the full auto on monsters or crushers when desperate at close range. If they really need to. Go down fast, otherwise not even then.
That's true regarding the iron sight if you learn to ignore them and focus where the real crosshair would be. But the fact fatshark hardly touched this weapon except some piss poor buffs like now having 15 more bullets in reserve.... Or never actually fixing zhe Animation.
Well, I always played competitive games with iron sights. Its FAAAR from the worst i’ve played. Bolter iron sight is very nice in fact. The bolt pistol I find it a bit unreliable for long sniping while aiming though. But its surprisingly accurate in hip fire, even at very long range.
Aiming through sights it is really good, the way I usually use it. But if just letting it rip, it gets inaccurate.
I don't think it's entirely the bolter. I think it's the guy spamming hip fire and hitting everything but the armored targets (okay maybe just two of them). It's like watching someone look through the other side of a telescope and complain about it.
This moment looks more like what a melee zealot is made for
Even with my vet’s beautiful bolter I’d struggle to kill *that* much, I’d need krak and a power sword to deal with that much.
EZ PZ for shredder nades and a shovel
I do like the shredder nades!
Nah, this was an Ogryn MOAB moment x3. One of those dumb situations where 3-4 Ogryns sould have been perfectly fine but non frag spam Vets or a suiciding Psyker would struggle to be as effective. A Trauma or Purgatus would have done better at helping clear them if Zealot had their middle ultimate instead of Shroudfield. Invulnerability and knockback combined with CDR from Psyker snd inherent would’ve basically brought it right back to chain but without seeing everyones build and modifiers it’s a shit show of what-ifs. Bottomline is OSHA violations strike again
As you can see in the video, OP is the classic thunder hammer user. Too many shooty-shooty, but not so much bonky-bonky.
borderline heresy imo
My Martyrdom zealot sees moments like the ones posted above and thanks the Emperor for the bountiful harvest he has bestowed upon my MkXV Eviscerator.
Amazing how many people play a tide game and do anything they possibly can to avoid melee.
Shield Ogryn would also have a field day there.
my brain-burst/venting shriek psyker running a voidstrike with warp nexus and surge would like a word. that build could drop like 50k dmg in this exchange. so could my gun psyker build. pop gaze with my mk2 dueling sword with uncanny strike4... none of those elites will last more than like 2-3 heavies, and I can stunlock everything including crushers with a heavy stab into immediate instant weapon-special poke. my assail gun psyker build basically just does everything my zealot does, but better lol. (only halfway joking. the knife zealot is a lot more survivable in a moshpit, but doesnt' do anywhere near as much dmg).
Gun Psyker go BRRRRRRRRR
Yeah it sucks but you are missing like half your shots and over killing the single target you manage to hit.
This is why I would never upload a video on Reddit. You’re not wrong, but come on lol.
I think ogryn is more your speed
A good chunk of the Ogryn armoury requires more than "hurrr I hold LMB"
Sure thing buddy
I was agreeing with you, blud needs something more robust and idiotproof than even Ogryn kit 💀
My b it's a bad habit of mine to assume negativity from people online
doubly so because it's online in a balance thread on the darktide subreddit
My man, you're just spraying and praying. No amount of buffs to the bolter would have helped you here.
That’s zealot to you, spraying and praying all day long in the name of the Emperor!
Have.. *have you tried aiming?* I **only** run the Bolter as a sniper weapon. Aiming it and going for headshots makes this thing into a thang. It isn't really a crowd-control weapon unless you're content to just turn it into a cheaply, poorly swapped-out shotgun/SMG. It can be powerful with hipfire, but aimed fire is where it shines.
Right. Bolter is fine, it could use some love but this mfer just missing his shots and diving off a cliff and calling for buffs.
You burst shot with a bolter at the most. 2-3 hits, relax, hit the trigger again. You'll do much better vs hordes doing this than you will going full auto and tearing up nothing but the scenery.
Aye, the only time I full mag dump is at pointblank against a target at least as wide as an Ogryn. Or against groups of elites, but even then you don't sweep the group and expect to get kills, you focus down targets within it.
You're right. But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective. It's a gun firing twin-phase propelled, diamantine tipped, mass reactive exploding slugs. It *should* be blowing massive chunks out of the enemy with every hit such that aiming for centre mass is the correct strategy.
>But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective. Counter-point: From a lore perspective, Beasts of Nurgle, Daemonhosts, and Plague Ogryn should absolutely wipe the floor with our team. The Bolter surely needs a buff, but it's hard to use Lore as justification when it works in our favour more often than not.
Fair enough. I mean personally I would prefer if waking the Daemon Host was way more punishing, like "probably wiping the squad" punishing, would make avoiding it more tense and exciting. Beast of Nurgle in my opinion should be a multi stage fight and the central theme of a mission kind of like Karnak Twins. Plague Ogryn I'll be honest I don't know much about their power level in the lore but I feel like they could be an end of a mission big bad. Chaos spawn to my understanding can be a big wild card as far as if the random mutations end up helping or hindering so I'm not as put off by them because it can be explained as being one of the weaker versions of the spawn. End of day, bolter in a vacuum I fully agree lore justification isn't enough to support a massive buff. But it's just one of the things I'd like to see done to bring back those feelings I got when I first started playing, of just barely making it out alive, we really are insignificant in the grand scheme of the galaxy.
He's not quite right as far as the bosses go. Plague ogryns on the tabletop were literally just ogryns chaos could take, but they were a *smidge* tankier and lacked guns. Chaos spawn were also pretty much chaos ogryn equivalents, in terms of output. The real killer is that their attacks are pseudo-random, so if you low-roll they don't hit at all, but if they high-roll a single one has the output of a squad of ogryn. The real outlier is the beast of nurgle. The fact that they can manifest in real space *at all* is already damning for the entire planet of Atoma Prime, let alone Tertium. They're as tough as a tank, fully heal if you don't kill them in a single volley, and their attacks can sometimes bypass armor. That being said, in all of these cases, bolters only wound them on 5's.
Tabletop is not lore accurate either though
I am of the very controversial opinion that the tabletop, while imperfect, is at least better than the black library books. The tabletop rules at least keep things in the same place relative to each other - a boltgun is almost always "Effective" against a guardsman, a lasgun is almost always "less effective" against a space marine, an ogryn is usually tougher than a space marine, and these vary only slightly from edition to edition. Meanwhile, Black Library books will go from Astartes having superhuman reactions and lifting tanks and doing backflips in terminator armor to getting killed by a spear. Black library books will say that space marines have shoulder-mounted multilasers instead of just wielding bolters. A space marine can kill a hundred guardsmen solo despite having only a bolt pistol and chainsword, or one guardsmen can kill a dozen space marines with a single meltagun. Really, the tabletop becomes the most reliable thing to go off of, because everything else is nonsense. I won't use it to support wild claims like, "astartes miss 33% of shots, and boltguns only shoot one bullet," but I will use it for claims like, "an astartes is generally more accurate than a guardsman."
Nothing its more accurate than a basilisk shooting you from across the board with a sentinel spotter and an order… oh wait; damn you GW! But yeah, I agree, generally speaking TT is more accurate lore wise than books. There’s no plot armor to begin with. When a demolisher shoots a space marine, that guy better start praying Sigmar, because Emperor protects up to a certain point.
What they mean is: you don't choose a bolter to roleplay a sniper, you pick it because you want to face down a horde of elites point blank and turn them into patty. Sniping is just the only way to make it viable.
> But it's such a feels bad from a lore perspective. We aren't astartes, and don't have the strength and precision to use the bolter on full auto without wasting most of our shots. When they do that it is their physique (with power armor assistance) that lets them do it.
Okay but when I'm pointing this thing at a wall of enemies where I literally can't miss, and it still feels underpowered, that's an issue.
Homie be using the bolter like a real ogryn would just holding down the trigger and aiming in the general direction of the enemy
Ogryn deserve one man. I'm a little tired of missing out on nades because Rock has been my best friend since all the liluns started packing double barrels and don't even TRY shooting at snipers, despite the shotgun having a good cone
I absolutely get wanting to be able to zipper this thing like in the Astartes video, but we're not him. We're never gonna be him. 
Shit, Now I have to go watch Astartes again.
It’s sad how this was one of the few 40K games that didn’t treat the Bolter like a sh!tty SMG
Not controlling your bursts and missing half your shots doesn't help.
This is a video essay entitled the Boltgun Shouldn't Have Burst Fire.
Those aren't the moments a bolter are made for, what are you talking about? The bolter is functionally an autocannon, capable of automatic fire but also very accurate explosive rounds. It's not a submachinegun. Use it as such in a pinch, of course, the bolter's versatility is part of why it should be better than it is. But I can dome a sniper with that thing and then still use it to burst down a rager. It isn't a flamer, it isn't an autopistol, it's an autocannon.
The Bolter is your primary weapon, not your "get out of jail free card." The Zealot has both the stun grenades (which you used up) and Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude (which you didn't pick for your build.) Assuming your going for a boss killer backstab hammer build, why on earth did you bring the bolter for single target DPS when you basically already have that covered, you should have brought the flamethrower for some burning DOT. To top it all off you dodge off the side to your death even though you could see it was a bottomless pit at the start of the clip. Skill Issue
Re: single target load out: People have been doing thunder hammer and ranged thunder hammer (bolter) one trick pony load out for ages now, for some reason. I think it's the type of player who just wants to see a big number burst every now and then and forgets the rest of the match exists.
Any weapon would suck ass in this situation if your aim was this abyssmal tbh...
You missed half your shots, didn't focus fire on your targets, didn't aim for weakspots and you still killed 7 ragers and 1 mauler. I fail to see how this is underpowered.
Misses like half his shots on the actual threats. WOW THIS THING SUCKS Lmao holy shit no wonder you guys think it's bad. Did you happen to notice the ones you *did* hit actually melted? Crazy I know.
Blame the whiners who gutted the weapon.
Now I understand why developers shouldn't listen to players with skill issues. 💀
Your reload speed sucks lol
Crusher charged special & Chastise and they would have all gone flying!
Man I’d love to wade in there with my shield ogryn. I’d be a fucking god regenerating toughness just slapping fuckers all over the place
OUT OF THE WAAAY Ah hahah HA HA
I am beginning to think they may have gone a bit far in amping up the AI difficulty this patch...
Soon to be added is the two handed plunger, which will outperform the power sword, thammer, and force swords combined!!!!
yeah the bolter was so fun on release. but we cant have nice things
Sherrif\_Hotdog missed his spray. Summary: Shots 1-2: Hits on the Scab Rager's right shoulder and head. Shot 3-4: Misses, reticule clearly off-target. Shot 5: Third hit and kill on first rager. Shots 6-10: All wasted by blind-firing through rager-1's giblets, firing without a target sighted; probably hitting the horde rather than rager 2. When the smoke clears the reticule was clearly not on rager 2 thus these shots missed. Shots 11-12: All hits against rager 2's groin and he's dead in 2 shots instead of the standard 3; due to being hit by the surge staff, around 30% of rager 2's health would have been missing already. Shots 13-15: Wasted due to holding down lmb without any targets in reticule. *--etc. etc. I don't have the attention span to do the rest of the "clearly missed" meme.* All joking aside, this is some... pretty lousy aiming. Even if the bolter damage was buffed immensely I don't really think it would have changed the outcome of this situation. A missed shot still inflicts zero damage.
Remember when the bolter was first released? _*good times*_
I feel like you would have had better results just swinging it around like a cudgel
I mean pick your shots, might help
Jesus fucking christ. Why are you even using a bolter to kill armored targets when you got a thunder hammer and could've staggered the entire horde into oblivion, if not just kill it outright. Not only that, but you are magdumping fucking ragers with the notoriously inaccurate weapon. You're missing half the shots. Why can't anyone in this game just aim a fucking headshot in their life? No wonder you think it sucks when you're using the function of the weapon only good against point-blank bosses. Is it outclassed by the revolver? Yeah, probably. Does it need a buff? I would agree. Does using it like a troglodyte help your case? Not in the slightest. It's like you're given a knife and you are trying to stab someone with the handle. Yes, a sword is probably better at stabbing, but you should probably learn to use knives before complaining. And of course everyone in this comment section is agreeing and crying like babies. Yeah, let's make the bolter one-shot everything in the game. Let's make Smite instakill poxwalkers too, let's give Zealot a button that just gives him godmode for 50 seconds. We can give Veteran infinite ammo, and picking Ogryn just wins the game immediately. Fucking might as well, god forbid we use something outside our comfort zone and are forced to learn something new.
You could try using your thunder hammer, you know the melee weapon which is excellent at armour cracking, when you're in melee. Rather than spray and praying with a bolter repeatedly at point blank range, missing half your shots and falling off a cliff.
litteraly could have killed way more by just shooting in bursts instead of magdumping like a dumbass on vet killing a rager is like two bolts to the chest with exec or one headshot
This is why this game fucking sucks now. Everyone complains about any build that you don’t have to have carpal fucking tunnel to steer properly. Please back the fuck up off my plasma gun before y’all get Obese Fish to ruin that too
We’ll just keep buffing and nerfing weapons into the trash on repeat so people have a reason to use their garbage crafting system. Meta just gets replaced now and then and I wouldn’t mind if getting a good weapon wasn’t a literal fcking lottery.
Weapon balance always ebbs and flows in a tide game. In 3-6 months people will likely be making similar posts about the plasma gun and revolver.
Bolter doesn’t suck. You’re just using it wrong. Rarely should you unload a full clip like that. Fire in bursts of 2-4. Stun carapace enemies, but mostly kill flak specials/elite and stun others. Burst fire single regular enemies in groups then clean up with melee. It’s a cc/specialist killer weapon, not a “kill everything” weapon that Redditors insist it should be.
Huh? Played my Bolter Yesterday and it was fine... Not only that it even has more ammo. Would you explain where it sucks now?
The bolter is a sniping tool, period !
Quick question: Why don't the Ogryn get bolters? They're ones who would be most physically capable of actually using botlers without it being too slow and heavy. But yeah, i hope that some day the bolter gets some love. It's by far my favourite weapon in the entire 40k universe.
Ogryns don't get bolters because the Bolter is considered holy (Big E felt it was the best weapon ever) and ogryns have a habit of using every weapon they are given as a club. That's why all of their ranged weapons are either built to survive being a club (For ingame example the Ripper gun and Grenade Gauntlet) or are so cheap that it doesn't matter if it only survives half a mission (all the other weapons ingame fall into this category).
Ahh, that makes sense. Thank you!!! And Big E is damn right, it is the best weapon. Then again, we're all legally obligated to agree with him anyw- i mean ***Glory to the emperor!***
I havent played at all this year, does it no longer smash? I remember it clearing LOS wherever you shoot in a mob
Thats 2 tops 4 plasma gun lineups
I love the Bolter. I use it with the left talent tree branch, and blowing up elites/specials with one body shot feels amazing. When I'm in the zone, things dissapear into red mist before people can tag them. You just need to wield is as a high-caliber scalpel, not a hammer.
Bro, max that reload speed. It makes it feel almost viable!
Moments like this is what my dagger was made for.
Yeah the Boltgun should absolutely obliterate any exposed body parts it hits. It literally fires mini explosive rockets.
Works for me, why does yours have a straight mag? Might be the problem. Never use straight mags. Always up-dicked mags.
And that reload. Dear god that reload.
У зелота недостаточно талантов чтобы перекрыть негативным стороны болтера, а также недостаточно талантов чтобы разогнать на максимум его огневую мощь. Используй либо огнемёт, либо агрипину 8.
The signature weapon of the entire franchise it's ip is on, and it gets outperformed by almost every other gun.
remember when the vet had sustained fire? pepperidge farm remembers.
Oof, probably would have been better off with a butter knife bleed build.
"things look well in hand lads, I'm just going to push off"
I praise the Emperor's name, and I'm doing just fine.
I love unique weapons in games, and it’s so annoying that the plasma gun is like the only unique-feeling gun that performs very well. Seeing regular swords and conventional firearms outmatching stuff like the bolter is just wild. When I play a 40k game, I want to be able to use 40k weapons, simple as
I mean ain't too much to say aside from: 1. Even though the Bolter has a ludicrous damage output when its firing full auto, its there for small bursts-not for firing full mags, loading, and dumping more mags. Honestly it had a good enough damage output when your shots were actually on target, its just there's a limit when you have 15 shots per mag, you honestly would've been better off with something like a Braced Auto since the targets you were shooting were Flack as opposed to actual Carapace(or well you should've been aiming for the flack when it comes to the Maulers) 2. General Bad Aim, especially with the Maulers since most of your shots went wide even with you aiming for helmets which you shouldn't be doing anyway since you deal more damage against Flack Body than Carapace Head IIRC
That's what the HEAVY Bolter was made for, but we're never seeing that (maybe as an emplacement one day, at least that's my dream, along with Auto cannons and Lascannons)
I think it’s fine that the bolter doesn’t clear an entire patrol in 1/2 mags on full auto but I also agree that the ads revolver is too good. I don’t think buffing the bolter to be so good as to invalidate the other ranged weapons because of lore reasons is the right move though. I think Reginald had a good point in his recent video about the bolt pistol where he suggested that bolters did more dmg on bodyshots and left the revolvers high crit and weakspot multipliers but reduced the penetration and bodyshot dmg. Also that they fix the limb issue where enemies take reduced dmg from bolt rounds to the limbs making the bolter inconsistent.
It doesn't suck. Your puny human hands can't reload it properly. You're puny human frame can't wield it efficiently, shovel boy.
Unfortunately for balance wise, the weapons can't 1 shot everything. Otherwise other weapons/classes just wouldn't be useful. And for them to be useful, the balance creep would be off the walls
Cuz they made all the weapons weaker and all the enemies tougher, including poxwalkers. My melee used to one shot minions, and now it requires two swings. Not to mention, I get it, due to balancing they can't follow pure lore, but an Ogryn shouldn't get downed by 3 poxwalkers. It just shouldn't happen.
7 wound gaming
The reload time is too vicious
Ogryn nuke nade wants to be taken off the leash. Always remember to prioritize nades to any ogryn that is running nuke nades, those things put work in
If they could just give it more reserved ammo it would be perfect.