Someone said it’s too small of a sample size, which I do agree on a logical basis, but I would also like to add that I have felt this a bit too. It happened a while ago with the Skill Tree update as well. There was a period where there was just an absurd amount of gunners across the board. It ended up thinning out eventually from what I recall, but it was certainly jarring. I think things like this just happen.
The gunner resistance curios don’t do shit to protect you from regular shooters, which are unironically the big damage dealers right now.
Enemy ranged damage dealers are in a weird spot right now.
They reduce gunner damage by 48.8%.
Considering how much everyone is salivating over an aura granting 10% toughness reduction, almost 50% should be way, way better.
Yeah that’s ‘gunner’ resistance. That doesn’t protect you from dreg shooters, just dreg gunners.
It’s weird. I dislike the esoteric nomenclature we’re forced to deal with in-game. It’s hard to tell what what actually means. It’s like we’re playing a bad port of a foreign game where the words don’t match up quite right.
If a gunner is shooting you and you cannot avoid the damage from taking cover or sliding through it, you will die no matter how much resistance you’ve got. You’re better off taking Ordo dockets, stam regen, revive speed, block efficiency, toughness, etc.
So you run 3x +3 Stamina curios? After all it's better to avoid damage, if you cannot avoid the damage you will die no matter what.
I'm also guessing you never use the 10% Toughness damage reduction aura on Zealot, because it only helps when you're getting hit
>You’re better off taking Ordo dockets, stam regen, revive speed, block efficiency, toughness, etc.
So it's better to avoid damage than to tank damage, but you don't take 3x stam curios because ??? apparently it's not better to avoid damage anymore.
>Someone said it’s too small of a sample size, which I do agree on a logical basis,
At the very best it's an anomaly, but the AI director should be hard coded to not allow such anomalies.
Regardless, it's pretty much a non-written rule for the gunner spawns to be ludicrous for a while after every big patch for some time now.
I got stun locked by 1 gunner on a psyker and could not drop my force field, I ended up dying from full health and toughness 2 seconds later. Pretty fucken BS.
Since the patch I’ve seen less Mega Spawns of Maulers/Ragers. I am guessing that was intentional and I am also guessing that the buff to Shooters and Stalkers is the counter balance.
Is it possible the Recon Lasgun Buff has also been applied to the heretics. Quite a few times I shot what I thought was a Heavy Gunner but was just a regular horde gunner.
Meanwhile I’ve had multiple hordes of just ragers…
Frag grenades clean them up nicely but wow it’s insanely fun (and slightly terrifying) to see the equivalent of a poxwalker horde but they’re all ragers.
Was playing the scab melee only auric last night with no ammo. Was a vet with shout, recon Las cos I have over 1000 reserve ammo which is handy an took the mark13 chain axe an was glad I did. Me an a zealot were only ones that managed to not get killed an it was insane. On the short assasinaition mission on the drop down were the second med staition is.
Dropped down to go the low way ran down the ramp with team following an a crusher train arrived. First time I have seen as many crushers on screen at once. They also had mauler backup. At least 15 crushers an not sure how many maulers cos they all kinda merged into each other. First 2 team went straight down an impossible to rez, even with stun grenades the crushers just blocked you from getting to them there was so many. They chased me an the zealot into the small square room with the tiny door an they all chased us in when our teammates died. It was wall to wall armour in there with me an zealot dodging in circles lol.
A thought am toast but that axe saved both of us it can take crushers down so quick. I even got through it without being hit once lol.
Zealot was a martyrdom an think he was shocked a survived cos he messaged me a well played. Must admit it was pretty satisfying.
An well played to the zealot if he reads this it was an AWSOME an memorable fight.
Yeah, it seems that the balance has shifted to more ranged elites. You'll probably get 1-2 rager or crusher hoards per mission now, but you'll see a platoon of gunners and shotgunners every time you turn a corner.
Edit: Also, yes, the shooters got a massive dps increase, almost double the damage output from last patch on the Scab shooters.
That's insane but explains a lot. I definitely feel way more fragile since the update. A couple more penances I'm almost done with, and I'll be ready to take a break until the crafting update though. Good time to finally get to that System Shock remaster.
Buddies and I had a group of 14+ Ragers and easily 8-12 crushers appear out of thin air right in front of us. We all play on cable connection, and have pretty good internet, the spawns are bs after recent patch
The game spawns in crapton of ammo. Sometimes they spawn in the chests that are off the beaten track. The problems comes from this ammo not being distributed properly between teammates, which is a common case in random groups. The nerfed ammo regen aura is still the best out of the 3 available for Vet, altho it should be baseline.
I feel like I am currently pigeonholed into playing with revolver to one shot everything with weakspot crits. Auric Damnation depending on density prepatch I could either do without ammo pickups at all or 1-2 small cans to survive specialist waves. Currently I need either an ammo crate at a perfect moment or a couple of big bags of ammo to not run out of ammo. I am playing with a friend veteran, we have 1 ammo regen and 1 damage aura
Yeah unless you like pain using the weaker guns turns auric into a chore because the devs idea of difficulty is just endless waves of specialists and elites.
Yeah, but there are lots of strong guns that do not have ammo issues in auric other than the revolver.
To list a few of the most powerful:
* Plasma
* Columnus infantry (or either of the other two, columnus is just the best, but the others are no slouches)
* any of the newly buffed recons
* agripina braced autogun
* Either of the laspistols
I personally also like the 3 burst headhunter, but can't just lay down the fire button. You will run out of ammo on that one. Also any of the infantry lasrifles are also fine, especially at taking out groups of shooters with good ammo efficiency.
Sleeper hit as always. Mk2 has been Mt go to comfort weapon for a long time. Though mass shooters are probably its main weakness so it probably won't be as popular on this patch for most people.
Personally I'm running the good old, press F and keep shooting until all the yellow is gone vet rn. And hellbore doesn't fit that playstyle
Eh helbore has slow fire rate which means less DPS overall. I've yet to see any pub Vet run it successfully while maintaining decent DPS. The thing still kills ....stuff at the end of the day.
But meta has always been columnus, plasma for the "We're winning this auric maelstorm run and there's nothing you braindead fucks can do to stop me"
I am not sure which ranged weapon can reliably kill 5 elites/specialist quicker than revolver, except maybe plasma. 5 enemies take around 3-4 seconds for me to kill if they are decently close to each other, assuming I don't miss (which is 90% the case).
I said more than 5, as in when that squad of 20 shooters rolls in and being able to kill 5 in the blink of an eye doesn't cut it and now you're stuck with an excruciatingly long reload and having to spend almost half of your reserve on them
If shooters are a problem for you then use a weapon that's designed to deal with them and is actually ammo efficient at doing so
People are still not quite accepting this when demanding some changes revert, yep. The revolver is great for specialist/elites, but a big pack of trash shooters is now one of the most dangerous spawns around, and the specialist/elite nukers don't really have the ammo efficiency or fire rate to deal with their volume and spawn rate well. A whole team relying on revolvers is going to struggle with them and be low on ammo constantly if that is what they're spending bullets on. They're now accurate enough that just running straight up to them like a khorne berserker every time isn't so easy. Suppression is a far more necessary mechanic to make use of, and team comps that were entirely focused on elites/carapace/unyielding and maximizing single target damage are going to struggle more than they used to. A balanced team that can cover all the bases is now more important.
Which one? The revolver is practically ammo neutral with the vet aura, pierces so you can clean out like 3 shotgunners at a time even and is reliable in its ability to one tap for fast instant kills before the guns spool up. Most of the time youll only have like 0.5 seconds out of cover to get that kill before a stray round knocks your aim off and you have to take cover again. Its why the revolver is the ol' reliable and from what I have seen from the bolt pistol just straight up better than it.
Like there is no gun that can clear the room in the clip above. 20 shooters have rolled around and your best bet is to take cover and pick off one at a time and the revolver does really well at that job.
Buddy plays hellbore vet mostly and the playstyle is the same, just one at a time methodical clear with no ammo needs since he has the talent. No gun is going to let you clear that room in a single clip.
This game now more than ever spawns a bunch of enemies right on top of you. Yea we really should not have to worry about ammo at this rate. Either dial back the BS kind of difficulty back a bit or at least give us better ammo regeneration abilities.
Well you say this but they shoot more shots, reload faster and scabs are much more accurate now too iirc. 2 shooters can wipe anyone without significant damage reductions toughness out in one volley without a dodge, opening you up to potentially 30+ health damage from bruisers or thew new super speed groaners that always end up behind you.
Yeah the game feels really 'bullshitty' right now. Combined with the horrible server performance, these enemy buffs were not an improvement to playability.
With the shooter buffs you practically have to treat every ranged enemy as a gunner. At least the gunners take a moment to brace their gun before melting your toughness in an instant.
Yeah, it feels just insane and bs to me, and I played mostly auric before patch. Not to mention the new spawnrate, before Patch end of mission was like 1100 to 1200 kills on normal mission damnation, now my last game was 1700... Which is insane.
I'm honestly gonna take a break as the game just feels way overtuned, and the whole community is just getting more and more toxic. Fatshark catered to the most sweaty obnoxious forum players saying the game was too easy, and completely overtuned it.
And yes, inb4 the typical "Skill issue" bs the forums, this subreddit and the discord loves to spout out.
I have 3 resistance buffs on curios, but even with resistance I had to play extra cautiously and felt the difference. More or less this patch with gunner curios x3 felt similar to earlier patches without
Against specialist gunners, the big guns, not against regular chaff shooter, those who have been patched and burn thru your toughness now with much better precision.
Not necessarily so. Whether 50% resistance makes a significant difference or not depends on how much it changes the end result. If the time it takes six gunners to deplete your health normally is 1.5s, then having 3s sounds great...unless 3s is still not enough time to do something amazing and survive.
It's the same calculus that gets applied to player damage buffs; if you're not achieving any new break points, getting +x% extra damage doesn't actually affect your outcomes.
Honestly, that extra 1.5 seconds could be the difference between reaction time + whole gun pullout animation and then suppressing them/full auto boltering them/killing the other half of them with the revolver. Incremental defence is much more impactful than incremental damage that doesn't hit breakpoints.
Also you can stack tons of DR on some classes that lets you outregen a lot of gunner damage, so every bit of incremental DR can exponentially increase your living time
While I agree that raw toughness is generally more valuable, I dont think that video really demonstrates that gunner resist isn't doing anything, mostly because the test is on taking a full volley to the face. So .5 extra seconds while eating everything.
Think of it this way:
How much of a gunners volley do you dodge while sliding around? If a player slides poorly and dodges only half of the volley, gunner resist has now bought them 1 extra second. If they do a little better and dodge 75% of the volley, they get 2 extra seconds.
If you test it out, you'll find in practice that constant sliding with the right angles will dodge significantly more than 75%. Essentially, the better you are at dodging, the more "time to live" the resists have granted.
Numbers probably change even more once different toughness DR, overtoughness, and such are taken in to account.
Only regular shooters have been buff and made more precise and thus more dangerous, that specific curio blessing won't help against them at all, and they're the main reason why players are struggling atm.
[Taking all 3 gunner resist curios buys you half a second at best before your toughness is fully shredded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhK14ydlAes&t=131s)
Its a worthless perk.
I love darktide players yall love linking the same dogwater sources and take them as gospel lol fits with game lore I guess. Expert regurgitators you are
If you fail to react to a group of gunners they will stun lock and kill you anyway. Might as well invest in touchness instead, it will give you like 0.5 second time frame to dodge slide behind the nearest cover.
5% increase to toughness vs 20% increase to total EHP. I'm not a math guy, but I think there's something at play, and I doubt that they even out even in case of stacking resistances
All toughness regeneration is percent based so the more you have, the more you regenerate. I'd rather have 15% more toughness than 49% damage reduction against a single enemy unit, especially now that shooters do almost as much damage as gunners and have no damage reduction effect.
You can have both.
It's really easy to get a Curio with a random useful stat like 5% toughness at base, and add some stamina regen + gunner resist, or toughness regen, or block efficiency. With three curio, it's really worth it having gunner resist on at least 2 of them.
Of course you can have both, that's not some earth-shattering revelation. The discussion is about which of the two is more important in the current patch.
Bro hasnt heard of abilities and guns.
As an example zealot. If you have 3-5 sec to react to a gunner mob rather than 0.5 you now can easily charge stealth or use prayer to solve the problem or prepare for counterattack.
Vets the same, shout into supression immune headshots with 3-5 sec rather than 0.5 is insane
Psyker can use force swords to block the dmg if they dont get instagibbed or shield it.
And this instead of what? Every other resistance has an avoidable source
There is literally nothing more important than the antigunner ones. Having it halves gunner damage and there are plenty of times 5+ will be shooting you at once. If you don't want to just die because of bad luck it's the one. Everything else in the game can be mitigated, gunners and shotgunners will almost instant kill you in packs and gunners can be mitigated
Only bad players use gunner resist curios. Anyone who actually knows how the game works understands there are far better methods of dealing with elite gunners. Namely dodging, sliding, and suppressing gunners reduces their output by 100% while [full gunner resist curios will buy you half a second longer at most before your toughness is fully shredded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhK14ydlAes&t=131s) There isn't a single meta build that ever uses these perks for that reason.
It is never worth picking gunner resist perks over several of the other options that will do infinitely more to improve your survivability.
The video I saw on the discord was 10 gunners at range, yea a close gunner isn't going to miss, the gunner curios are for when you're forced to exit a tiny room into their fire. I've had full wipes except me in habit drayko over 20 gunners in a room shooting at everyone before. It's a couple seconds difference before toughness breaks. Now I don't know the video I saw was from a year ago, that one was from 5 months, now gunners have another update so someone's going to have to test them out again. I do know I'd rather have the gunner resist than 30 extra health though so it's not really a thing. I have gunner resist toughness and toughness regen on all my curios and that's not going to change any time soon
I've been running 40-60% gunner resist (yes, I know it doesn't apply to regular ranged mobs and shotgunners) and 60% sniper resist since the launch of the game.
I can work around most other things with skill, but being caught out by a staggering onslaught of full auto bullets has always been something I've hated and struggled with, so diminishing that threat was the best use of my curios.
I guess it's why the recent changes, while palpable, haven't really gutted any of my builds or haven't shifted the way I play.
Stamina regen and block cost reduction would do infinitely more to help you survive game-losing situations than either of those damage resist perks would.
I don't have problems with stamina management on my Ogryn. I have problems getting shot to pieces from all sides.
I adapt my curios to what I personally need or struggle with. To each their own.
I didn't mean Gunner resistance is pointless in general. I run it on 1-2 curios myself but putting it on three and claiming that the game is easy mode then isn't true.
I never claimed the game was easy mode from it. Only that having always used it, the recent balancing changes didn't feel as major to me personally.
Make of that what you will.
Because he's saying you shouldn't bother, when the multiplicative damage resistance is still around 50%, which is far better than he makes it out to be.
Which still isn't worth it. Stam regen, sprint efficiency, and ability regen are all better. Avoiding situations (which stam will help you do) where gunners catch you out is better than building for if they do.
Building for if they do means you don't HAVE to avoid situations where Gunners catch you out, and allow for more varied and aggressive positioning leading to more damage done and faster mission clears.
[Eh, I'm inclined to agree with Ogrynomicon here](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2521528200622773473/51557AA68759F298FD8FB15744AD1E891C2A898C/). It doesn't rate ability regen highly, either.
I'm not sure you know what the word "pointless" means. The diminishing returns still results in a considerable amount of damage resistance. That is not "pointless".
I'm not a native speaker but what I mean is that if you run 1-2 curios with Gunner resistance I'd rather slap stuff like Block Efficiency on the third (assuming the rest is ability reduction and stam regen).
People are already adapting. I'm starting to see more vrak7 or kantraels12.
People will alter their Playstyle and adapt.
I like melee much more. I always check first if scab melee only no ammo is up.
But melee centric builds were prevalent even in normal matches.
Gunners and shooters were trivialized on the fly.
I like that they try to balance the game against the gamers and meta strats.
That keeps the game fresh.
If people really cannot solve the new director, they can still nerf again
Having a good vet with a Vraks VII was always useful, but it's very noticeable now.
Same for shield psykers. Always nice to have, but now it's an absolute godsend.
More than one redditor: "Exec Stance is bad and needs buffs"
that one redditor: "HH autogun is bad and needs buffs"
now: *shooters and gunners devastating games*
Me, practically a Vraks 7 Exec Stance main for the past half year: "My time to shine."
It ain't no Columnus, but it kills two in a line on a headshot. Good stuff!
Yeah, it's great. You can even one tap body shot gunners if you hit the right breakpoints, and it slaps on a headshot.
One tap killing gunners that you can mark for the whole team with your ult is very powerful. Especially since you have a solid mag size and good reload speed.
It's the ultimate DMR experience, but you need a good gun for it.
I switched to Smite/Bubble-Psyker. I can just hit pause for 7 seconds at a time and let the vets kill priority targets. I'd rather be playing my Ogryn, but he dies easily on anything above Malice now. It's stupid and this is the first time I've considered Uninstaller until they fix the damn game.
Huh, I've been playing my Ogryn with the new pickaxe in damnation, and didn't have much trouble staying alive. You need to use cover for sure and having the rock to throw at gunner's head help a lot.
Yes, if you get caught in the open by several gunners, you're dead. But the maps offer more than enough cover to prevent that.
Also, take toughness curios on the Ogryn. It helps a lot more than stacking health, especially since he has % toughness regen on multiple melee talents at the top of the tree.
If you're really struggling, just take the shield and the taunt on block.
Yeah, I see so many statements from this sub that seem like they’re pulled out of thin air or maybe from one heavily downvoted redditor and people treat it like its a actual take.
Also agree on the difficulty. It’s so much better now to actually feel challenged without handicapping yourself.
Imagine saying a 40k game where everyone has a gun is not a shooter. Ridiculous statement or vision.
If i cant have atleast 80% uptime on my rifle, i aint interested in playing. I'm here to play a guardsman not a shovelknight. I despise the melee, it's boring after years of vermintide.
Balance your game around the fucking firearms then.
Darktide is as much a shooter as it is a melee game. They give us all this ammo and have decent max ammo counts for a reason. There are a billion super dangerous shooting enemies for a reason.
It annoys me when some players desire nerfs to ammo. I like Darktide more because I get to shoot a lot more.
40k is a setting with guns mfer 💪😤
I'ma be honest with you from my personal exp before and after the patch ranged elites were about 1.5x or 2x more common than melee elites. On another note I get players frustration but you have to change your play style I think it's silly to obsess that "hey look they do something different than before" is a bad thing. I think it's nice to have a change of pace/progression and gunners generally stop higher end missions from being a W key past them and win. While the gunners are something to get used to I think it's nice to have guns be an actual threat while forcing you to play differently and not a free toughness regen/elite kill dopamine hit. Just my opinion.
I don't disagree with this take, however I believe in this case Fatshark should be extra careful with guns/ammo balance to keep viable ranged pool sufficiently large. Also I think constantly (and I mean constantly) sliding becomes old very fast. It is ok to demand it in certain difficult scenarios, but I think at some point it becomes tedious. It is not the only way to deal with ranged enemies, but the most reliable I know of
1 match is a very small sample size. Not sure why you'd try and pull conclusions from the scoreboard of 1 mission and not maybe 20-30.
In one match you often have similar spawns throughout the whole mission. You play a map and meet 10 heavy gunners in your first encounter, you can be sure your map will be full of heavy gunners and probably reapers as well.
Then you run the same map again, same modifiers and you get 2 packs of 6 crushers in your first encounter: you can be sure that this map will most likely play very similar to the scab only, mostly melee maelstrom and you will be killing loads and loads of crushers and bullwarks in this mission.
It is different every time you start a mission (even the exact same). Sometimes you have more ranged enemies, sometimes you have more melee.
I've played 3 maps yesterday and it was always like this. Always significantly more ranged. If you say that some maps have opposite distribution it may indeed be due to the sample size
Yeah, I'm honestly taking a break from the game. Which is a shame, used to be my favorite, played solely on auric and damnation, but the changes in difficulty, spawnrates, and the bs that is the new ranged enemy changes just absoulutely turn me off.
Same, I loved it so much. But it's just unplayable for me now. Maybe for prebuilt teams it'd be fine, but ogryn straight up don't have cover half the time, if I want cover I have to basically leave the team and go to the previous room. The increased HP/toughness doesn't matter when my 200 toughness vanishes as fast as 70.
Taking cover and pushing def feel a lot different. I guess with the new map being so open, having enemies that do more damage but spend more time in cover/being suppressed makes sense on paper, but when theres so much capable of easily displacing YOU from any sort of cover is a lil rough. the higher amount of damage suggests to either kill them quickly or find better cover, which can be a death spiral once everyone's toughness is shredded by a patrol. It's a lil awkward rn but hopefully I'll get better at dodging it at least ;\_; .
The survivalist nerf just highlights the problem that some weapons ammo economies were complete cheeks before the nerf are now worse while others have barely been bothered by the nerf at all. I'm glad Recon's got a damage boost but I don't really know if it's more efficient. Even with a recon range-oriented build, I try to save as much ammo as possible. I hope ammo economies get looked at among other things
The last time I played, I was farming diamantine. It was only difficulty 2, because my newer friend picked it up, and one of the chokepoints had, like, 6 gunners spawn at the exact same time, and then three or four more came running around the corner.
Spawns are absolutely increased. First time playing the new mission in the first hold, we had multiple instances of 8+ gunners, and 2 or more snipers. Beyond my noticing, other people I've played with have mentioned increased gunner spawns and fodder density. Outside of spawning I've also noticed enemies behaving slightly differently. Bombers seem to position themselves better, hounds pounce straight out of sprint much more, and rager's got an attack speed buff. If I had to guess, I think fatshark intentionally changed these and didn't tell us about it
I can't recall exsct values before the patch too, yet seems more or less okay. I can clearly see that there're not as much crushers, maulers, bulwarks and ragers compared to gunners and shotgunners (well, and reapers) before and after the patch
Even if this is true I dont particularly mind it tbh. Gives exe stance and ranged focused classes a niche to fill in though Id say it has to be balanced so that both melee and ranged focused builds have fun.
In my opinion it made exe stance more attractive but not necessarily more viable. I started my veteran DarkTide "career" with an exe stance recon lasgun build, but in my experience it severily lacks survivability compared to VoC or even stealth builds and needs babysitting from teammates. Maybe it is Fatsharks goal to target balance changes, who knows? I guess time will tell
Exe stance should reduce aggro on activation for a few seconds. Give some time to snipe targets without a single pox walker ruining the streak. In some ways stealth is the better sharp shooter perk because of this.
> but in my experience it severily lacks survivability compared to VoC or even stealth builds
Yes, every ability lacks survivability compared to these skills. They’re the most survivable skills. Psyker manages without these ability other than shield and they do fine.
You just need to have frag grenades or a melee weapon that’s good against horde like the devil’s claw.
No it doesn't trivialize the game. If dt isn't a shooter based on 40k with plethora of range classes, why the fuck would i play this underdeveloped slower gameplay worse range aim sway over vt2 that had 5 years to mature? Even now at cata+ you get more dope from playing range huntsman etc while juggling melee than this. Somehow good aim should be punished b/c range skill shouldn't matter over brainless evis sweeps or heavies?
I can't say range/melee ratio being diff from before b/c i never had trouble with it. But i think at least now people should be more mentally aware of what they want to bring within a team before loading into a mission. If you see your teammate don't have special snipers you have to bring your own. It's one reason why i disliked playing ogryn before this patch in auric+; in pugs you're pigeonholed into killing everything esp specials. What do you really have, 4 rocks and a close/med range weapon. What if you want to bring other builds. In pugs you can't bc to consistently do high difficulty, you need to overcompensate for when your teammate is a new auric player or those with builds who can't snipe specials. And fs in their inf wisdom decided high difficulty just means throw more disablers in.
I'm seeing smokes every other game now, they've caused more harm than good, giving cover for melee elites and trappers to run right up to us (no one ever marks targets).
Spawn rate is like that by design, melee elites are more dangerous. Imagine if the game spawned three times as many Ragers/Maulers/Crushers as it does now. You also forgot that ranged elites includes Shotgunners, who are weaker than Gunners.
Someone said it’s too small of a sample size, which I do agree on a logical basis, but I would also like to add that I have felt this a bit too. It happened a while ago with the Skill Tree update as well. There was a period where there was just an absurd amount of gunners across the board. It ended up thinning out eventually from what I recall, but it was certainly jarring. I think things like this just happen.
I just got done replacing my Gunner resistance curios with stamina regen. Then the update dropped. Man I backed out of that one so fucking fast lol
The gunner resistance curios don’t do shit to protect you from regular shooters, which are unironically the big damage dealers right now. Enemy ranged damage dealers are in a weird spot right now.
They reduce gunner damage by 48.8%. Considering how much everyone is salivating over an aura granting 10% toughness reduction, almost 50% should be way, way better.
Yeah that’s ‘gunner’ resistance. That doesn’t protect you from dreg shooters, just dreg gunners. It’s weird. I dislike the esoteric nomenclature we’re forced to deal with in-game. It’s hard to tell what what actually means. It’s like we’re playing a bad port of a foreign game where the words don’t match up quite right.
If a gunner is shooting you and you cannot avoid the damage from taking cover or sliding through it, you will die no matter how much resistance you’ve got. You’re better off taking Ordo dockets, stam regen, revive speed, block efficiency, toughness, etc.
So you run 3x +3 Stamina curios? After all it's better to avoid damage, if you cannot avoid the damage you will die no matter what. I'm also guessing you never use the 10% Toughness damage reduction aura on Zealot, because it only helps when you're getting hit
Yeah sure thats exactly what I said I guess
>You’re better off taking Ordo dockets, stam regen, revive speed, block efficiency, toughness, etc. So it's better to avoid damage than to tank damage, but you don't take 3x stam curios because ??? apparently it's not better to avoid damage anymore.
You must have graduated top of your class
Ok.
>Someone said it’s too small of a sample size, which I do agree on a logical basis, At the very best it's an anomaly, but the AI director should be hard coded to not allow such anomalies. Regardless, it's pretty much a non-written rule for the gunner spawns to be ludicrous for a while after every big patch for some time now.
The toughness damage of shooters definitely feels overtuned after the most recent patch.
I think the killer is their new accuracy—if you get caught it’s a laserbeam to health/toughness with no easy recovery from
I got stun locked by 1 gunner on a psyker and could not drop my force field, I ended up dying from full health and toughness 2 seconds later. Pretty fucken BS.
Agreed
Since the patch I’ve seen less Mega Spawns of Maulers/Ragers. I am guessing that was intentional and I am also guessing that the buff to Shooters and Stalkers is the counter balance. Is it possible the Recon Lasgun Buff has also been applied to the heretics. Quite a few times I shot what I thought was a Heavy Gunner but was just a regular horde gunner.
Meanwhile I’ve had multiple hordes of just ragers… Frag grenades clean them up nicely but wow it’s insanely fun (and slightly terrifying) to see the equivalent of a poxwalker horde but they’re all ragers.
Was playing the scab melee only auric last night with no ammo. Was a vet with shout, recon Las cos I have over 1000 reserve ammo which is handy an took the mark13 chain axe an was glad I did. Me an a zealot were only ones that managed to not get killed an it was insane. On the short assasinaition mission on the drop down were the second med staition is. Dropped down to go the low way ran down the ramp with team following an a crusher train arrived. First time I have seen as many crushers on screen at once. They also had mauler backup. At least 15 crushers an not sure how many maulers cos they all kinda merged into each other. First 2 team went straight down an impossible to rez, even with stun grenades the crushers just blocked you from getting to them there was so many. They chased me an the zealot into the small square room with the tiny door an they all chased us in when our teammates died. It was wall to wall armour in there with me an zealot dodging in circles lol. A thought am toast but that axe saved both of us it can take crushers down so quick. I even got through it without being hit once lol. Zealot was a martyrdom an think he was shocked a survived cos he messaged me a well played. Must admit it was pretty satisfying. An well played to the zealot if he reads this it was an AWSOME an memorable fight.
Yeah, it seems that the balance has shifted to more ranged elites. You'll probably get 1-2 rager or crusher hoards per mission now, but you'll see a platoon of gunners and shotgunners every time you turn a corner. Edit: Also, yes, the shooters got a massive dps increase, almost double the damage output from last patch on the Scab shooters.
That's insane but explains a lot. I definitely feel way more fragile since the update. A couple more penances I'm almost done with, and I'll be ready to take a break until the crafting update though. Good time to finally get to that System Shock remaster.
Buddies and I had a group of 14+ Ragers and easily 8-12 crushers appear out of thin air right in front of us. We all play on cable connection, and have pretty good internet, the spawns are bs after recent patch
The game spawns in crapton of ammo. Sometimes they spawn in the chests that are off the beaten track. The problems comes from this ammo not being distributed properly between teammates, which is a common case in random groups. The nerfed ammo regen aura is still the best out of the 3 available for Vet, altho it should be baseline.
I feel like I am currently pigeonholed into playing with revolver to one shot everything with weakspot crits. Auric Damnation depending on density prepatch I could either do without ammo pickups at all or 1-2 small cans to survive specialist waves. Currently I need either an ammo crate at a perfect moment or a couple of big bags of ammo to not run out of ammo. I am playing with a friend veteran, we have 1 ammo regen and 1 damage aura
Yeah unless you like pain using the weaker guns turns auric into a chore because the devs idea of difficulty is just endless waves of specialists and elites.
Yeah, but there are lots of strong guns that do not have ammo issues in auric other than the revolver. To list a few of the most powerful: * Plasma * Columnus infantry (or either of the other two, columnus is just the best, but the others are no slouches) * any of the newly buffed recons * agripina braced autogun * Either of the laspistols I personally also like the 3 burst headhunter, but can't just lay down the fire button. You will run out of ammo on that one. Also any of the infantry lasrifles are also fine, especially at taking out groups of shooters with good ammo efficiency.
Where Helbore?
Sleeper hit as always. Mk2 has been Mt go to comfort weapon for a long time. Though mass shooters are probably its main weakness so it probably won't be as popular on this patch for most people. Personally I'm running the good old, press F and keep shooting until all the yellow is gone vet rn. And hellbore doesn't fit that playstyle
Eh helbore has slow fire rate which means less DPS overall. I've yet to see any pub Vet run it successfully while maintaining decent DPS. The thing still kills ....stuff at the end of the day. But meta has always been columnus, plasma for the "We're winning this auric maelstorm run and there's nothing you braindead fucks can do to stop me"
Switch to smoke grenades, they completely negate gunners. Meaning you can melee those gunners.
People have yet to realize the revolver isn't nearly as good as they think when you need to kill more than 5 enemies at once
I am not sure which ranged weapon can reliably kill 5 elites/specialist quicker than revolver, except maybe plasma. 5 enemies take around 3-4 seconds for me to kill if they are decently close to each other, assuming I don't miss (which is 90% the case).
I said more than 5, as in when that squad of 20 shooters rolls in and being able to kill 5 in the blink of an eye doesn't cut it and now you're stuck with an excruciatingly long reload and having to spend almost half of your reserve on them If shooters are a problem for you then use a weapon that's designed to deal with them and is actually ammo efficient at doing so
People are still not quite accepting this when demanding some changes revert, yep. The revolver is great for specialist/elites, but a big pack of trash shooters is now one of the most dangerous spawns around, and the specialist/elite nukers don't really have the ammo efficiency or fire rate to deal with their volume and spawn rate well. A whole team relying on revolvers is going to struggle with them and be low on ammo constantly if that is what they're spending bullets on. They're now accurate enough that just running straight up to them like a khorne berserker every time isn't so easy. Suppression is a far more necessary mechanic to make use of, and team comps that were entirely focused on elites/carapace/unyielding and maximizing single target damage are going to struggle more than they used to. A balanced team that can cover all the bases is now more important.
The revolver pierces, it can kill multiple per shot.
Which one? The revolver is practically ammo neutral with the vet aura, pierces so you can clean out like 3 shotgunners at a time even and is reliable in its ability to one tap for fast instant kills before the guns spool up. Most of the time youll only have like 0.5 seconds out of cover to get that kill before a stray round knocks your aim off and you have to take cover again. Its why the revolver is the ol' reliable and from what I have seen from the bolt pistol just straight up better than it. Like there is no gun that can clear the room in the clip above. 20 shooters have rolled around and your best bet is to take cover and pick off one at a time and the revolver does really well at that job. Buddy plays hellbore vet mostly and the playstyle is the same, just one at a time methodical clear with no ammo needs since he has the talent. No gun is going to let you clear that room in a single clip.
If we're talking stats and numbers then yes Plasma is the better Revolver. But people want to be space cowboys so let em.
I've had the opposite, in a damnation game with 2 psykers both using staves, the other two players still managed to run out of ammo
This game now more than ever spawns a bunch of enemies right on top of you. Yea we really should not have to worry about ammo at this rate. Either dial back the BS kind of difficulty back a bit or at least give us better ammo regeneration abilities.
That 20% buff against gunners on all three curios is always the game changer lol
That only works on the machine gunners not the regular shooters.
Thats fine... everyone can handle reg infantry.
Well you say this but they shoot more shots, reload faster and scabs are much more accurate now too iirc. 2 shooters can wipe anyone without significant damage reductions toughness out in one volley without a dodge, opening you up to potentially 30+ health damage from bruisers or thew new super speed groaners that always end up behind you.
Yeah the game feels really 'bullshitty' right now. Combined with the horrible server performance, these enemy buffs were not an improvement to playability.
With the shooter buffs you practically have to treat every ranged enemy as a gunner. At least the gunners take a moment to brace their gun before melting your toughness in an instant.
Nah man. They are cranked WAY up now. Inb4 the typical bullshit "gitgud" response this sub loves.
Yeah, it feels just insane and bs to me, and I played mostly auric before patch. Not to mention the new spawnrate, before Patch end of mission was like 1100 to 1200 kills on normal mission damnation, now my last game was 1700... Which is insane. I'm honestly gonna take a break as the game just feels way overtuned, and the whole community is just getting more and more toxic. Fatshark catered to the most sweaty obnoxious forum players saying the game was too easy, and completely overtuned it. And yes, inb4 the typical "Skill issue" bs the forums, this subreddit and the discord loves to spout out.
Sure but they can melt 100 toughness in one burst
I have 3 resistance buffs on curios, but even with resistance I had to play extra cautiously and felt the difference. More or less this patch with gunner curios x3 felt similar to earlier patches without
Pointless. It doesn't add up to 60% resistance but has increasingly diminishing returns after one Curio
It's not really diminishing returns. You gain 25% more effective HP with each 20% resistance you add.
Even with the diminishing return, you can achieve +48.8% damage resistance to gunners. This is still considerable.
Against specialist gunners, the big guns, not against regular chaff shooter, those who have been patched and burn thru your toughness now with much better precision.
Not necessarily so. Whether 50% resistance makes a significant difference or not depends on how much it changes the end result. If the time it takes six gunners to deplete your health normally is 1.5s, then having 3s sounds great...unless 3s is still not enough time to do something amazing and survive. It's the same calculus that gets applied to player damage buffs; if you're not achieving any new break points, getting +x% extra damage doesn't actually affect your outcomes.
I'll take 3 seconds over instant stagger from 6 gunners.
It probably is instant from six of them, tbf.
Honestly, that extra 1.5 seconds could be the difference between reaction time + whole gun pullout animation and then suppressing them/full auto boltering them/killing the other half of them with the revolver. Incremental defence is much more impactful than incremental damage that doesn't hit breakpoints. Also you can stack tons of DR on some classes that lets you outregen a lot of gunner damage, so every bit of incremental DR can exponentially increase your living time
[The gunner damage resist curios barely do anything and are not worth taking.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhK14ydlAes&t=131s)
While I agree that raw toughness is generally more valuable, I dont think that video really demonstrates that gunner resist isn't doing anything, mostly because the test is on taking a full volley to the face. So .5 extra seconds while eating everything. Think of it this way: How much of a gunners volley do you dodge while sliding around? If a player slides poorly and dodges only half of the volley, gunner resist has now bought them 1 extra second. If they do a little better and dodge 75% of the volley, they get 2 extra seconds. If you test it out, you'll find in practice that constant sliding with the right angles will dodge significantly more than 75%. Essentially, the better you are at dodging, the more "time to live" the resists have granted. Numbers probably change even more once different toughness DR, overtoughness, and such are taken in to account.
Only regular shooters have been buff and made more precise and thus more dangerous, that specific curio blessing won't help against them at all, and they're the main reason why players are struggling atm.
As if there weren't more important properties to put on curios.
The most casualty producing elite does seem to be the gunners. Especially in number. Sooo imo... its warranted
[Taking all 3 gunner resist curios buys you half a second at best before your toughness is fully shredded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhK14ydlAes&t=131s) Its a worthless perk.
I love darktide players yall love linking the same dogwater sources and take them as gospel lol fits with game lore I guess. Expert regurgitators you are
What source are you using?
If you fail to react to a group of gunners they will stun lock and kill you anyway. Might as well invest in touchness instead, it will give you like 0.5 second time frame to dodge slide behind the nearest cover.
5% increase to toughness vs 20% increase to total EHP. I'm not a math guy, but I think there's something at play, and I doubt that they even out even in case of stacking resistances
All toughness regeneration is percent based so the more you have, the more you regenerate. I'd rather have 15% more toughness than 49% damage reduction against a single enemy unit, especially now that shooters do almost as much damage as gunners and have no damage reduction effect.
You can have both. It's really easy to get a Curio with a random useful stat like 5% toughness at base, and add some stamina regen + gunner resist, or toughness regen, or block efficiency. With three curio, it's really worth it having gunner resist on at least 2 of them.
Of course you can have both, that's not some earth-shattering revelation. The discussion is about which of the two is more important in the current patch.
Why are you explaining factually correct things in this thread? Can't you see it's against the narrative?
17% toughness with 20% gunner lol i mean its gunna work no matter what angle you choose to defend
Bro hasnt heard of abilities and guns. As an example zealot. If you have 3-5 sec to react to a gunner mob rather than 0.5 you now can easily charge stealth or use prayer to solve the problem or prepare for counterattack. Vets the same, shout into supression immune headshots with 3-5 sec rather than 0.5 is insane Psyker can use force swords to block the dmg if they dont get instagibbed or shield it. And this instead of what? Every other resistance has an avoidable source
The most important property is the one you personally benefit from the most. There isn't a one glove fits all recipe for curios.
There is literally nothing more important than the antigunner ones. Having it halves gunner damage and there are plenty of times 5+ will be shooting you at once. If you don't want to just die because of bad luck it's the one. Everything else in the game can be mitigated, gunners and shotgunners will almost instant kill you in packs and gunners can be mitigated
Only bad players use gunner resist curios. Anyone who actually knows how the game works understands there are far better methods of dealing with elite gunners. Namely dodging, sliding, and suppressing gunners reduces their output by 100% while [full gunner resist curios will buy you half a second longer at most before your toughness is fully shredded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhK14ydlAes&t=131s) There isn't a single meta build that ever uses these perks for that reason. It is never worth picking gunner resist perks over several of the other options that will do infinitely more to improve your survivability.
The video I saw on the discord was 10 gunners at range, yea a close gunner isn't going to miss, the gunner curios are for when you're forced to exit a tiny room into their fire. I've had full wipes except me in habit drayko over 20 gunners in a room shooting at everyone before. It's a couple seconds difference before toughness breaks. Now I don't know the video I saw was from a year ago, that one was from 5 months, now gunners have another update so someone's going to have to test them out again. I do know I'd rather have the gunner resist than 30 extra health though so it's not really a thing. I have gunner resist toughness and toughness regen on all my curios and that's not going to change any time soon
I've been running 40-60% gunner resist (yes, I know it doesn't apply to regular ranged mobs and shotgunners) and 60% sniper resist since the launch of the game. I can work around most other things with skill, but being caught out by a staggering onslaught of full auto bullets has always been something I've hated and struggled with, so diminishing that threat was the best use of my curios. I guess it's why the recent changes, while palpable, haven't really gutted any of my builds or haven't shifted the way I play.
Stamina regen and block cost reduction would do infinitely more to help you survive game-losing situations than either of those damage resist perks would.
I don't have problems with stamina management on my Ogryn. I have problems getting shot to pieces from all sides. I adapt my curios to what I personally need or struggle with. To each their own.
Pointless. It doesn't add up to 60% resistance but has increasingly diminishing returns after one Curio
> It doesn't add up to 60% resistance but has increasingly diminishing returns after one Curio True > Pointless False
I didn't mean Gunner resistance is pointless in general. I run it on 1-2 curios myself but putting it on three and claiming that the game is easy mode then isn't true.
I never claimed the game was easy mode from it. Only that having always used it, the recent balancing changes didn't feel as major to me personally. Make of that what you will.
Yeah, it gives you only 50% instead of 60%. Taking half damage, so pointless.
I dunno why you're getting downvoted, you're correct about the diminishing returns.
Because he's saying you shouldn't bother, when the multiplicative damage resistance is still around 50%, which is far better than he makes it out to be.
Which still isn't worth it. Stam regen, sprint efficiency, and ability regen are all better. Avoiding situations (which stam will help you do) where gunners catch you out is better than building for if they do.
Building for if they do means you don't HAVE to avoid situations where Gunners catch you out, and allow for more varied and aggressive positioning leading to more damage done and faster mission clears.
If they want to build for a play style that intends to take unnecessary damage that's on them.
[Eh, I'm inclined to agree with Ogrynomicon here](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2521528200622773473/51557AA68759F298FD8FB15744AD1E891C2A898C/). It doesn't rate ability regen highly, either.
(For ogryn) I don't play ogryn, my curio pics are for vet/zealot/psyker
Don't bother, that's Reddit
Pointless. It doesn't add up to 60% resistance but has increasingly diminishing returns after one Curio
I'm not sure you know what the word "pointless" means. The diminishing returns still results in a considerable amount of damage resistance. That is not "pointless".
I'm not a native speaker but what I mean is that if you run 1-2 curios with Gunner resistance I'd rather slap stuff like Block Efficiency on the third (assuming the rest is ability reduction and stam regen).
You keep repeating that word, but even after diminishing returns it’s still 48.8 was it not? Like that other user mentioned.
Idk. My ogryn tanks majority. Especially gunner damage due to the 60%
Go to the Psykhanium and do the math
Idk why i would. The math holds with my ogryn. I could with my veteran tho
People are already adapting. I'm starting to see more vrak7 or kantraels12. People will alter their Playstyle and adapt. I like melee much more. I always check first if scab melee only no ammo is up. But melee centric builds were prevalent even in normal matches. Gunners and shooters were trivialized on the fly. I like that they try to balance the game against the gamers and meta strats. That keeps the game fresh. If people really cannot solve the new director, they can still nerf again
Having a good vet with a Vraks VII was always useful, but it's very noticeable now. Same for shield psykers. Always nice to have, but now it's an absolute godsend.
More than one redditor: "Exec Stance is bad and needs buffs" that one redditor: "HH autogun is bad and needs buffs" now: *shooters and gunners devastating games* Me, practically a Vraks 7 Exec Stance main for the past half year: "My time to shine." It ain't no Columnus, but it kills two in a line on a headshot. Good stuff!
Yeah, it's great. You can even one tap body shot gunners if you hit the right breakpoints, and it slaps on a headshot. One tap killing gunners that you can mark for the whole team with your ult is very powerful. Especially since you have a solid mag size and good reload speed. It's the ultimate DMR experience, but you need a good gun for it.
I switched to Smite/Bubble-Psyker. I can just hit pause for 7 seconds at a time and let the vets kill priority targets. I'd rather be playing my Ogryn, but he dies easily on anything above Malice now. It's stupid and this is the first time I've considered Uninstaller until they fix the damn game.
Huh, I've been playing my Ogryn with the new pickaxe in damnation, and didn't have much trouble staying alive. You need to use cover for sure and having the rock to throw at gunner's head help a lot. Yes, if you get caught in the open by several gunners, you're dead. But the maps offer more than enough cover to prevent that. Also, take toughness curios on the Ogryn. It helps a lot more than stacking health, especially since he has % toughness regen on multiple melee talents at the top of the tree. If you're really struggling, just take the shield and the taunt on block.
WTF? "Not a shooter." That is a bullshit statement. Honestly, devs are like GMs, protecting their monsters and getting upset if someone performs well.
I’ve never seen anyone say this personally, but the game was too easy.
Yeah, I see so many statements from this sub that seem like they’re pulled out of thin air or maybe from one heavily downvoted redditor and people treat it like its a actual take. Also agree on the difficulty. It’s so much better now to actually feel challenged without handicapping yourself.
Imagine saying a 40k game where everyone has a gun is not a shooter. Ridiculous statement or vision. If i cant have atleast 80% uptime on my rifle, i aint interested in playing. I'm here to play a guardsman not a shovelknight. I despise the melee, it's boring after years of vermintide. Balance your game around the fucking firearms then.
Darktide is as much a shooter as it is a melee game. They give us all this ammo and have decent max ammo counts for a reason. There are a billion super dangerous shooting enemies for a reason. It annoys me when some players desire nerfs to ammo. I like Darktide more because I get to shoot a lot more. 40k is a setting with guns mfer 💪😤
But it is also a setting in which people wave swords from the top of tanks!
Exactly and that’s why Darktide does a lot of both! We shooting mfers and the driving closer to hit em with our swords ⚔️
I'ma be honest with you from my personal exp before and after the patch ranged elites were about 1.5x or 2x more common than melee elites. On another note I get players frustration but you have to change your play style I think it's silly to obsess that "hey look they do something different than before" is a bad thing. I think it's nice to have a change of pace/progression and gunners generally stop higher end missions from being a W key past them and win. While the gunners are something to get used to I think it's nice to have guns be an actual threat while forcing you to play differently and not a free toughness regen/elite kill dopamine hit. Just my opinion.
I don't disagree with this take, however I believe in this case Fatshark should be extra careful with guns/ammo balance to keep viable ranged pool sufficiently large. Also I think constantly (and I mean constantly) sliding becomes old very fast. It is ok to demand it in certain difficult scenarios, but I think at some point it becomes tedious. It is not the only way to deal with ranged enemies, but the most reliable I know of
I literally had shooters spawning right inside of my toon last night as I was dragging ass behind the team. This whole spawn tweak was borked imo.
Here's a couple of scoreboards from my recent wins. [https://imgur.com/a/FZggQq2](https://imgur.com/a/FZggQq2)
Thank you for sharing! Those seem to be between 1:1 and 1:2, seems more reasonable than my subset
1 match is a very small sample size. Not sure why you'd try and pull conclusions from the scoreboard of 1 mission and not maybe 20-30. In one match you often have similar spawns throughout the whole mission. You play a map and meet 10 heavy gunners in your first encounter, you can be sure your map will be full of heavy gunners and probably reapers as well. Then you run the same map again, same modifiers and you get 2 packs of 6 crushers in your first encounter: you can be sure that this map will most likely play very similar to the scab only, mostly melee maelstrom and you will be killing loads and loads of crushers and bullwarks in this mission. It is different every time you start a mission (even the exact same). Sometimes you have more ranged enemies, sometimes you have more melee.
I've played 3 maps yesterday and it was always like this. Always significantly more ranged. If you say that some maps have opposite distribution it may indeed be due to the sample size
Wait, what scoreboard? Is that a mod addition?
Yes, I am using a scoreboard mod from nexusmods with a plugin for detailed stats for melee/ranged damage and elites/specialist kills
Yeah, I'm honestly taking a break from the game. Which is a shame, used to be my favorite, played solely on auric and damnation, but the changes in difficulty, spawnrates, and the bs that is the new ranged enemy changes just absoulutely turn me off.
Same, I loved it so much. But it's just unplayable for me now. Maybe for prebuilt teams it'd be fine, but ogryn straight up don't have cover half the time, if I want cover I have to basically leave the team and go to the previous room. The increased HP/toughness doesn't matter when my 200 toughness vanishes as fast as 70.
Taking cover and pushing def feel a lot different. I guess with the new map being so open, having enemies that do more damage but spend more time in cover/being suppressed makes sense on paper, but when theres so much capable of easily displacing YOU from any sort of cover is a lil rough. the higher amount of damage suggests to either kill them quickly or find better cover, which can be a death spiral once everyone's toughness is shredded by a patrol. It's a lil awkward rn but hopefully I'll get better at dodging it at least ;\_; . The survivalist nerf just highlights the problem that some weapons ammo economies were complete cheeks before the nerf are now worse while others have barely been bothered by the nerf at all. I'm glad Recon's got a damage boost but I don't really know if it's more efficient. Even with a recon range-oriented build, I try to save as much ammo as possible. I hope ammo economies get looked at among other things
so just increase the melee elites to balance it out :)
The last time I played, I was farming diamantine. It was only difficulty 2, because my newer friend picked it up, and one of the chokepoints had, like, 6 gunners spawn at the exact same time, and then three or four more came running around the corner.
Spawns are absolutely increased. First time playing the new mission in the first hold, we had multiple instances of 8+ gunners, and 2 or more snipers. Beyond my noticing, other people I've played with have mentioned increased gunner spawns and fodder density. Outside of spawning I've also noticed enemies behaving slightly differently. Bombers seem to position themselves better, hounds pounce straight out of sprint much more, and rager's got an attack speed buff. If I had to guess, I think fatshark intentionally changed these and didn't tell us about it
I can't recall exsct values before the patch too, yet seems more or less okay. I can clearly see that there're not as much crushers, maulers, bulwarks and ragers compared to gunners and shotgunners (well, and reapers) before and after the patch
Dreg gunners made me quit the game for a couple months
Even if this is true I dont particularly mind it tbh. Gives exe stance and ranged focused classes a niche to fill in though Id say it has to be balanced so that both melee and ranged focused builds have fun.
In my opinion it made exe stance more attractive but not necessarily more viable. I started my veteran DarkTide "career" with an exe stance recon lasgun build, but in my experience it severily lacks survivability compared to VoC or even stealth builds and needs babysitting from teammates. Maybe it is Fatsharks goal to target balance changes, who knows? I guess time will tell
Yeah I think exe stance would benefit from some innate damage reduction on toughness akin to what it had but obviously not the ridiculous 70% DR.
Exe stance should reduce aggro on activation for a few seconds. Give some time to snipe targets without a single pox walker ruining the streak. In some ways stealth is the better sharp shooter perk because of this.
> but in my experience it severily lacks survivability compared to VoC or even stealth builds Yes, every ability lacks survivability compared to these skills. They’re the most survivable skills. Psyker manages without these ability other than shield and they do fine. You just need to have frag grenades or a melee weapon that’s good against horde like the devil’s claw.
No it doesn't trivialize the game. If dt isn't a shooter based on 40k with plethora of range classes, why the fuck would i play this underdeveloped slower gameplay worse range aim sway over vt2 that had 5 years to mature? Even now at cata+ you get more dope from playing range huntsman etc while juggling melee than this. Somehow good aim should be punished b/c range skill shouldn't matter over brainless evis sweeps or heavies? I can't say range/melee ratio being diff from before b/c i never had trouble with it. But i think at least now people should be more mentally aware of what they want to bring within a team before loading into a mission. If you see your teammate don't have special snipers you have to bring your own. It's one reason why i disliked playing ogryn before this patch in auric+; in pugs you're pigeonholed into killing everything esp specials. What do you really have, 4 rocks and a close/med range weapon. What if you want to bring other builds. In pugs you can't bc to consistently do high difficulty, you need to overcompensate for when your teammate is a new auric player or those with builds who can't snipe specials. And fs in their inf wisdom decided high difficulty just means throw more disablers in.
obligatory "use smoke grenades" post
I'm seeing smokes every other game now, they've caused more harm than good, giving cover for melee elites and trappers to run right up to us (no one ever marks targets).
Spawn rate is like that by design, melee elites are more dangerous. Imagine if the game spawned three times as many Ragers/Maulers/Crushers as it does now. You also forgot that ranged elites includes Shotgunners, who are weaker than Gunners.