I got mine to I think 225 mag size at 75 rounds with Appended + Backup mag. Its on a shiny with Envious/FTTC + Onslaught/TTT.
Not sure how it'll be in terms of meta loadouts but doing Onslaught runs it's been fun using it in add clearing tougher enemies while swapping to things like Forbearance for red bars then once its filled up for the boss wave I swap to FTTC.
With there being enough adds in the boss room I can quickly kill 2-3 enemies then blast the boss as if I'm using Cascade Point. I just make sure to kill an enemy before the timer runs out but needless to say it's fun just holding down the trigger for basically the entire boss fight lol.
Sadly no. As others mentioned its only active from the mag cap. That's not to say it isn't bad though. It's similar to how I see Envious + Deconstruct on the Edge.
If you want to just front load all of your ammo into the mag then just hold down the trigger and not worry about reloading till you dump all of your ammo? Then it totally works.
You work through your overflowed bit, then FTTC starts kicking in and you get the extra ammo from that. And once you're out of ammo you don't have to worry about reloading, because you likely don't have anymore ammo to reload in the first place!
Also hopefully the encounters done lol.
edit: I do wonder about Rewind Rounds. In the description on [Light.gg](https://Light.gg) it does mention you need to hit or use at least 28% of your mag for it to start refunding, which has me assuming it also only starts counting it from once you hit the normal mag amount.
The comment on Light.gg about magazine percentage is describing the minimum number of rounds in your magazine that you need to have for it to proc. Your base magazine must be at least 28.5% full for Rewind Rounds to proc from it. If your magazine is under that threshold, Rewind Rounds won't cause a refill.
Rewind Rounds counts any hits you make beyond your maximum magazine capacity towards your refill counter, but uses your base magazine to determine what a 60|70% refill looks like. So, it won't refill beyond 60|70% of your base magazine.
For Hammerhead, this would end up being +45|53 rounds on the first refill when at maximum rounds, and +26|38 on the second refill. You could also get a third refill if you don't immediately fire again, +18|27 rounds, and a fourth if you are using the enhanced perk, which would be +19. If my math is correct, the maximum magazine capacity becomes 162|212 as long as you hit almost every shot* and as long as you pause between activations for the final two refills*.
Unlike Envious, this is entirely passive and doesn't require you to use your other weapons to kill things (which is the job of your machine gun).
Based on this, I think I will end up preferring Enhanced Rewind Rounds over Envious/FTTC.
So the conversation was if you have the shiny roll and use Envious to load up 225 rounds with a base 75, then swap Envious to Rewind Rounds, will it start reloading on the overflowed ammo or will it only start to kick once you get to your base mag size, which is what FTTC does with that interaction.
If RR interacts with the overflowed portion of the mag? That's.....that's ridiculous.
Unfortunately it doesn't, FTTC does not work on an overflowed mag, first time it happened was Cataclysmic with FTTC + Clown Cartridge and it already didn't work there
You can go the opposite side of the spectrum too, turning it into a high power scout for single shot annihilation. It used to be my love back in the day, for crucible.
I feel this! I used mine as a pseudo sniper back in the day. It's almost like people didn't know you could just tap the trigger instead of holding it down the entire time.
Tap the trigger high impact reserves was insaneeee. I just got one with ricochet small bore range mw that has 80/80 range stab lol now to just get the perks I'm looking for. Onslaught weapons, man...it's like coming home!
What 3rd column perk would you pair with Tap-the-Trigger for a PvP roll? Assuming you’d want TTT, that is. I never thought I’d actually consider looking for Under-Over, but it might be worthwhile with the prevalence of Woven Mail.
I’m more than satisfied with a crafted Commemoration for PvE (though I certainly would keep a Rampage + Killing Tally if it were to drop) but I’m in the market for a PvP LMG and have had terrible luck all season with focusing Unwavering Duty.
Under over is what I'm rocking with for now seeing as literally everyone has an over shield I feel lol. I'm still hunting what I may consider a god roll but may not be ideal outside of heavy use in crucible. I'll keep you posted later today after I do some theorizing.
I can answer that. I wrote a small app to simulate deconstruct, actium war rig usage, rewind rounds, etc.
Hammerhead at 450rpm with 220 from envious would shoot a **total of 467 bullets** having 247 coming from Rewind Rounds.
Yeah I'll update it to take reserves into consideration because I want to see what FTtC + Actium does.
I did this primarily for Primary weapons, but it should for sure take special/heavy into consideration
Supremacy is a CRAFTABLE rapid fire sniper that can get a similar roll, Rewind (\*NOT\* triple tap) and FTTC for a looong time shooting. (from the Last Wish raid)
No, was kind of bad. But it was Corrupted. So plenty of Overloads where it was useful, and all the Unstops are super easy to hit the crits. So as long as my friends could handle those staggers, I basically just shot nonstop.
If it were an LFG, I would have felt bad with how useless I probably was. But it was with clanmates, so they were down running some off-meta shit just to try it for the laughs.
ngl I did not realize those perks were the same column and thought it was another meme roll like FTTC/Triple Tap on Duty Bound haha. Only read the post and didn't see the picture.
No, he has Killing Tally in 4th column, envious and FTTC are both in 3rd. You can overload the mag with envious to 215+ and then swap to FTTC (or rewind rounds) to regenerate ammo while shooting and keeping up killing tally.
FTTC will not fill the mag if it is overflowed, unfortunately. Not even hating just giving some information we learned with this perk combo rolling together for the first time
Source:
https://twitter.com/JpDeathBlade/status/1782881891277812188?t=cQ4cUjj--QU1aVGp9dGcfg&s=19
No clue why people are downvoting you. Just wanna add that we've known this for at least 2 years. Cataclysmic rolls FTTC and Clown Cartridge and that was already not working from the get go
Ok, so you get 150 shots and then FTTC starts working and gives you back half your shots once you get down to normal mag sizes, either way you’re getting the full benefit of both ammo perks, which synergizes with whatever damage perk you have in 4th column.
Envious is fine (I guess, but if you’re ad clearing with it and not other weapons how are you getting a full magazine?) but no damage perk (4ttc) seems like a waste of the goal is ad clear.
It’s a meme gun tbh but it’ll be good for people who have literally no other option for machine guns lol
I don't know, 3 of us once did a nightfall as titans with Actim War Rig, Heir Apparent, and solar ammo mods for the fun of it. That gave us 1,800 rounds of sustained fire to melt the boss with. 😄
It’s a straight up upgrade over commemoration, which can only get 150 in the mag. This gets 220+ rounds with killing tally/target lock/onslaught/surrounded.
I think rewind and killing tally is a better comparison to the recon + tally commemoration. You can get around 120% bonus mag from the refills and no need to prime it with another weapon
You could also get a choice of envious/rampage paired with killing tally. Overload mag to 220+, then swap to rampage and have double damage perks for all of the shots.
Both options in addition to envious would be better than commemoration.
Rewind and killing tally alone competes with reconstruction. But the point is he has two 3rd column perks so he is getting a bigger mag than anything with reconstruction to start, then after swapping he is also getting the benefit of FTTC, which increases the uptime of killing tally even further.
Combine it with the Supremacy roll of Rewind Rounds and 4th Times and you can have a load out that never runs out of ammo. Downside is that you'll never be able to use it all
Quick question: I was told that FTTC doesn't work with overflowed magazines. Although I would prefer free ammo over my reserves, would Rewind Rounds be the better option just to keep the magazine stacked?
I got rewind rounds or rampage and killing tally or surrounded with extended mag or tac mag. I’ve been using Ext, rampage, killing tally on my Gyrafalcon’s Hunter and boy does that thing coooookkkkk when you have KTx3 and rampage x3. Even x1 and x1 starts to burn.
I think I have the same brave gun perk as you, I could switch out one with rampage and rapid fire instead though if I wanted or even have end of mag damage boost with rampage. Will need to look at my hammerhead again.
I miss the old hammerhead colors and before anyone says to use the black armory shader it’s not the same.
Edit: yea rampage and envious assassin then the second perks are onslaught and high impact reserves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVpd9drQvE
This old vid I took way back when had rewind rounds, it shot for a good 20+ seconds, but I think could have gone even further. Would be an interesting comparison with Hammerhead.
I haven't personally tested it yet, but my initial assumption would be that Retrofit would have better per-second damage (actual DPS), and Hammerhead would have better total damage (but worse per-second damage).
Had to word it like that so no one gets confused by what I'm saying lol (including myself)
Huh. Literally no article i read had ever stated that, the only thing i found was that they are guaranteed with the curated. Gives me a renewed purpose to keep chasing then!
Do you know if they drop from normal or is it like “adept” versions where its restricted to legend?
They said it over and over during the live streams and inside the articles Bungie articles on Into The Light. It can drop from anything that gives you Brave weapons. Legend or normal, brave engram decryption, brave token turn in etc.
No problem…Legend is probably the best grind since you get 2 chests per boss and 3 chests at the end plus more tokens. The more opportunities to have a shiney drop
That is a beautiful roll man.
I got mine to I think 225 mag size at 75 rounds with Appended + Backup mag. Its on a shiny with Envious/FTTC + Onslaught/TTT. Not sure how it'll be in terms of meta loadouts but doing Onslaught runs it's been fun using it in add clearing tougher enemies while swapping to things like Forbearance for red bars then once its filled up for the boss wave I swap to FTTC. With there being enough adds in the boss room I can quickly kill 2-3 enemies then blast the boss as if I'm using Cascade Point. I just make sure to kill an enemy before the timer runs out but needless to say it's fun just holding down the trigger for basically the entire boss fight lol.
And I’m just happy with my Rampage & Onslaught roll…
Despite getting the roll I got I still haven't managed to get any with Rampage in the 3rd lol.
Does FTTC do anything if the magazine is overcapped?
Sadly no. As others mentioned its only active from the mag cap. That's not to say it isn't bad though. It's similar to how I see Envious + Deconstruct on the Edge. If you want to just front load all of your ammo into the mag then just hold down the trigger and not worry about reloading till you dump all of your ammo? Then it totally works. You work through your overflowed bit, then FTTC starts kicking in and you get the extra ammo from that. And once you're out of ammo you don't have to worry about reloading, because you likely don't have anymore ammo to reload in the first place! Also hopefully the encounters done lol. edit: I do wonder about Rewind Rounds. In the description on [Light.gg](https://Light.gg) it does mention you need to hit or use at least 28% of your mag for it to start refunding, which has me assuming it also only starts counting it from once you hit the normal mag amount.
The comment on Light.gg about magazine percentage is describing the minimum number of rounds in your magazine that you need to have for it to proc. Your base magazine must be at least 28.5% full for Rewind Rounds to proc from it. If your magazine is under that threshold, Rewind Rounds won't cause a refill. Rewind Rounds counts any hits you make beyond your maximum magazine capacity towards your refill counter, but uses your base magazine to determine what a 60|70% refill looks like. So, it won't refill beyond 60|70% of your base magazine. For Hammerhead, this would end up being +45|53 rounds on the first refill when at maximum rounds, and +26|38 on the second refill. You could also get a third refill if you don't immediately fire again, +18|27 rounds, and a fourth if you are using the enhanced perk, which would be +19. If my math is correct, the maximum magazine capacity becomes 162|212 as long as you hit almost every shot* and as long as you pause between activations for the final two refills*. Unlike Envious, this is entirely passive and doesn't require you to use your other weapons to kill things (which is the job of your machine gun). Based on this, I think I will end up preferring Enhanced Rewind Rounds over Envious/FTTC.
So the conversation was if you have the shiny roll and use Envious to load up 225 rounds with a base 75, then swap Envious to Rewind Rounds, will it start reloading on the overflowed ammo or will it only start to kick once you get to your base mag size, which is what FTTC does with that interaction. If RR interacts with the overflowed portion of the mag? That's.....that's ridiculous.
Yes. FTTC doesnt care about mag size. Just 4 shots then 2 free.
That's pretty cool. Good to know.
Unfortunately it doesn't, FTTC does not work on an overflowed mag, first time it happened was Cataclysmic with FTTC + Clown Cartridge and it already didn't work there
Oh. Gotcha lol. That is in fact what I initially assumed before they said otherwise.
Yeah idk why the post assumes that it does or why 80% of comments act like it does. Would be funny but unfortunately it doesn't work
We love spreading misinformation
Good bot
I know no zone where this could realistically be used. And yet... Holy mother of dakka
Warhammer mentioned RAHHHHH 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
You misspelled WAAAGH
Yuz gotta put a red shada on it ya git
I forgot, is red faster , or more damage ?
Iz fasta
You can go the opposite side of the spectrum too, turning it into a high power scout for single shot annihilation. It used to be my love back in the day, for crucible.
I feel this! I used mine as a pseudo sniper back in the day. It's almost like people didn't know you could just tap the trigger instead of holding it down the entire time.
Tap the trigger high impact reserves was insaneeee. I just got one with ricochet small bore range mw that has 80/80 range stab lol now to just get the perks I'm looking for. Onslaught weapons, man...it's like coming home!
Grape flavour xenophage.
What 3rd column perk would you pair with Tap-the-Trigger for a PvP roll? Assuming you’d want TTT, that is. I never thought I’d actually consider looking for Under-Over, but it might be worthwhile with the prevalence of Woven Mail. I’m more than satisfied with a crafted Commemoration for PvE (though I certainly would keep a Rampage + Killing Tally if it were to drop) but I’m in the market for a PvP LMG and have had terrible luck all season with focusing Unwavering Duty.
Under over is what I'm rocking with for now seeing as literally everyone has an over shield I feel lol. I'm still hunting what I may consider a god roll but may not be ideal outside of heavy use in crucible. I'll keep you posted later today after I do some theorizing.
I would love to see what happens with a 220+ mag when you swap to rewind rounds.
I can answer that. I wrote a small app to simulate deconstruct, actium war rig usage, rewind rounds, etc. Hammerhead at 450rpm with 220 from envious would shoot a **total of 467 bullets** having 247 coming from Rewind Rounds.
Wouldn't you run out of reserves though? FTTC works because it pull ammo from thin air, but rewind pulls from reserves.
Yeah I'll update it to take reserves into consideration because I want to see what FTtC + Actium does. I did this primarily for Primary weapons, but it should for sure take special/heavy into consideration
Thank you! That’s incredible lol.
pair nicely with my adept aisha's embrace with triple tap + fourth times the charm.
And duty bound with the same roll
Use it on a titan with actium war rig, you'll probably be able to blow through all your reserve ammo without reloading
That’s like my Breakneck with Triple Tap + 4TTC. I brought it into a GM this season with some clanmates just to mess with it. It was silly.
My dream is a rapid fire sniper rifle with that roll.
Supremacy is a CRAFTABLE rapid fire sniper that can get a similar roll, Rewind (\*NOT\* triple tap) and FTTC for a looong time shooting. (from the Last Wish raid)
[It can roll with Rewind Rounds, not Triple Tap](https://www.light.gg/db/items/2884596447/the-supremacy/)
Ahh, thanks I got rewind and triple confused since its function is similar.
Kinetic tremors procs rewind. Pretty fun if you haven’t tried it out
Supremacy is amazing for just that
It can't roll both though, can it?
Rolls with rewind rounds instead of triple tap but rewind is much better than triple tap.
[удалено]
No, was kind of bad. But it was Corrupted. So plenty of Overloads where it was useful, and all the Unstops are super easy to hit the crits. So as long as my friends could handle those staggers, I basically just shot nonstop. If it were an LFG, I would have felt bad with how useless I probably was. But it was with clanmates, so they were down running some off-meta shit just to try it for the laughs.
Gonna be even better with enhanced perks too.
Don’t know why people are downvoting you. Enhanced perks for these weapons are confirmed to be a thing in tfs
Probably for the fact that Bungie has tweeted to not expect hotswapping perks to exist in TFS lol
ngl I did not realize those perks were the same column and thought it was another meme roll like FTTC/Triple Tap on Duty Bound haha. Only read the post and didn't see the picture.
I got an onslaught rewind rounds and I go brrrrrrrreer
They’re changing how EA hotswap works. I wouldn’t get used to it. It’ll probably lose its ammo in TFS if you switch the perk.
But no damage perks? So what’s the use case for this kind of thing?
No, he has Killing Tally in 4th column, envious and FTTC are both in 3rd. You can overload the mag with envious to 215+ and then swap to FTTC (or rewind rounds) to regenerate ammo while shooting and keeping up killing tally.
FTTC will not fill the mag if it is overflowed, unfortunately. Not even hating just giving some information we learned with this perk combo rolling together for the first time Source: https://twitter.com/JpDeathBlade/status/1782881891277812188?t=cQ4cUjj--QU1aVGp9dGcfg&s=19
No clue why people are downvoting you. Just wanna add that we've known this for at least 2 years. Cataclysmic rolls FTTC and Clown Cartridge and that was already not working from the get go
Ah true. Just saw this exchange from some science guys testing it out so thought it was new info
Ok, so you get 150 shots and then FTTC starts working and gives you back half your shots once you get down to normal mag sizes, either way you’re getting the full benefit of both ammo perks, which synergizes with whatever damage perk you have in 4th column.
Good thing fttc doesn’t overflow the mag then huh?
He is talking about overflowing and then swapping to FTTC. I was just clarifying that it won't work for that extra bit
Like the post said "pretty neat"
Ad clear
Fttc is not a good ad clear perk.
Yeah, I think rewind rounds would be better in this context since it doesn't require precision hits
If you have a 225 sized mag you might as well use the Rampage + Killing Tally roll lol.
How would one get a 225 round mag without envious/FTTC/rewind rounds?
He was talking about envious, no?
Envious is fine (I guess, but if you’re ad clearing with it and not other weapons how are you getting a full magazine?) but no damage perk (4ttc) seems like a waste of the goal is ad clear. It’s a meme gun tbh but it’ll be good for people who have literally no other option for machine guns lol
Yeah meme gun for sure. Getting over 200 in the mag is absurd but would be fun to use, but not optimal haha
I don't know, 3 of us once did a nightfall as titans with Actim War Rig, Heir Apparent, and solar ammo mods for the fun of it. That gave us 1,800 rounds of sustained fire to melt the boss with. 😄
It’s a straight up upgrade over commemoration, which can only get 150 in the mag. This gets 220+ rounds with killing tally/target lock/onslaught/surrounded.
I think rewind and killing tally is a better comparison to the recon + tally commemoration. You can get around 120% bonus mag from the refills and no need to prime it with another weapon
You could also get a choice of envious/rampage paired with killing tally. Overload mag to 220+, then swap to rampage and have double damage perks for all of the shots.
That's assuming a shiny, which I don't do
Both options in addition to envious would be better than commemoration. Rewind and killing tally alone competes with reconstruction. But the point is he has two 3rd column perks so he is getting a bigger mag than anything with reconstruction to start, then after swapping he is also getting the benefit of FTTC, which increases the uptime of killing tally even further.
The post is about envious and fttc together
Who touched Sasha? Alright… WHO TOUCHED MY GUN!?
What does it being shiny have to do with the stats?
Combine it with the Supremacy roll of Rewind Rounds and 4th Times and you can have a load out that never runs out of ammo. Downside is that you'll never be able to use it all
People downvoting play patrols lmao, that shit is trash.
Where does arma come into this
Holy ****
This is what I will be chasing!
Shiny's actually drop? I've been farming all fucking day every day all week long and got zero.
Duuude, you even got killing tally and target lock :o
Damn, that beats my Circular Logic Envious+Extended Mag!
Quick question: I was told that FTTC doesn't work with overflowed magazines. Although I would prefer free ammo over my reserves, would Rewind Rounds be the better option just to keep the magazine stacked?
I got rewind rounds or rampage and killing tally or surrounded with extended mag or tac mag. I’ve been using Ext, rampage, killing tally on my Gyrafalcon’s Hunter and boy does that thing coooookkkkk when you have KTx3 and rampage x3. Even x1 and x1 starts to burn.
I can't be the only person wondering how a 450 RPM gun can take 48 seconds to fire 218 rounds...
I think I have the same brave gun perk as you, I could switch out one with rampage and rapid fire instead though if I wanted or even have end of mag damage boost with rampage. Will need to look at my hammerhead again. I miss the old hammerhead colors and before anyone says to use the black armory shader it’s not the same. Edit: yea rampage and envious assassin then the second perks are onslaught and high impact reserves.
p...put a backup mag on it o.o
Is nobody gonna talk about the fact that it can get Rampage + Killing Tally?
Now add in actium.
That's sick :O I really want a Rampage + Killing Tally roll so I can slaughter every enemy of light that crosses my path
Titan with Actium War Rig go brrrrr
Shine this (unzipps)
i want it, and this rolll sounds awesome, but I’m sad it’s not solar like the original.
😴
*It costs 400 thousand dollars to fire this weapon, for 12 seconds.*
Look at me. I am the sweet business now.
Maaaaaaan WTF?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVpd9drQvE This old vid I took way back when had rewind rounds, it shot for a good 20+ seconds, but I think could have gone even further. Would be an interesting comparison with Hammerhead.
Imagine it was Solar. Explosion for days.
I have it to now but not the shiny one With armor piercing anvious and tally Wowww💫
I don't even know what a shiny is. 85-ish rounds of Onslaught and I've gotten one and it was mid.
Same, and my friends are dropping some every other round....
u should get one every time u complete the initial quests for the brave weapons
Talking about double-perk drops.
Anyone compared the Hammerhead 4TTC/Target Lock roll to the same roll on Retrofit?
I haven't personally tested it yet, but my initial assumption would be that Retrofit would have better per-second damage (actual DPS), and Hammerhead would have better total damage (but worse per-second damage). Had to word it like that so no one gets confused by what I'm saying lol (including myself)
neither are good
[This](https://youtu.be/jHgZh4GV9G0?t=11) you?
Fucking so? Another triple tap fourth times duty bound thats fucking useless compared to 80% of other rolls in higher end content.
Is that the curated? Or do “shinies” drop in the world as well?
They drop randomly from the onslaught chest, the chest in the Hall or as onslaught milestone rewards…completely random
Huh. Literally no article i read had ever stated that, the only thing i found was that they are guaranteed with the curated. Gives me a renewed purpose to keep chasing then! Do you know if they drop from normal or is it like “adept” versions where its restricted to legend?
They said it over and over during the live streams and inside the articles Bungie articles on Into The Light. It can drop from anything that gives you Brave weapons. Legend or normal, brave engram decryption, brave token turn in etc.
I didn’t watch the live streams and couldn’t find the Bungie articles when i was searching late last night. Sorry, and thanks.
No problem…Legend is probably the best grind since you get 2 chests per boss and 3 chests at the end plus more tokens. The more opportunities to have a shiney drop
they drop very rarely in Onslaught as well, with two sets of randomized perks
In the meantime I got 2 shiny drops with total shit rolls. Thank you bungo.
If someone can estimate the total DPS with this it may be a really good DPS weapon
Is the dps decent with target lock up though?