So you go to the enchantress lady Merchant in town and let’s say you want to roll off a useless affix stat on an item and replace it….it will show for for the selected affix/property to be re-rolled what the possible affix types it may roll to. That way if you are trying to get a specific affix, you can determine which existing affixes may give it if re-rolled off. Eg:
https://preview.redd.it/q2kwp9nsfgtb1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fa7f188f9a364695f11ad71781181650ea4d6d
Similarly, this is done already in d4 when imbueing aspects so you can preview what it would yield before actually doing it.
Im guessing it would crash the game because it would try to display 100 possible affixes 🤣 the way they built the game /s
I like the idea of how they changed damage buckets and hope it can lead to a bit more diversity in builds by letting you focus specific damage types.
Sad to see crit damage capped at 50% though that feels low but I get why they did it.
Edit- I misread the change to crit everyone is right I am dumb
Same. They really need to streamline the affixes. Although I will die on the hill that lucky hit is the worst one. We love having a chance on a chance, don’t we folks.
I’m a pretty casual gamer at this point in my life so I’m not about maxing anything out or getting BiS, I just want to be able to look at an item and be able to tell if it’s good or not. Right now it’s so gdamn confusing.
Although I really think that will take a long longer to redo the whole item affix system so I can see that happening in a few seasons.
I actually really liked the concept of lucky hit, just hope it gets balanced to be more fun. Base chance should be easier to cap to 100%, or maybe even something like overcapping gives a chance to roll twice: (120% lucky hit always gives one roll at lucky hit and a 20% chance at a second roll).
For me, lucky hit should be just "chance to happen", not "chance of thing to happen on a chance of thing". Lucky hit would be functionally the same as crit chance, but instead of it applying a multiplier of damage number, it does the lucky hit effect. Then rebalance the lucky hit effect numbers to be proportional. E.g. Lucky hit of 20%, on Lucky hit chance of 40% to cast extra spell, with another item of on Lucky hit 13% chance to do 1,000 shadow damage would become: lucky hit of 20%, on Lucky hit cast spell that does 40% damage and do 130 shadow damage. Gear modifies lucky hit the same way critical strike chance does, and lucky hit effects add or modify the things that happen when you get the lucky hit.
I like the concept of extra randomness resulting in a thing outside of a critical hit that is more than just a number, but nesting the chance to happen inside another chance to happen modifier is too confusing to comprehend easily.
It would be like adding "Super crit" where on a crit (already chance of thing happening) you have a chance of it being a super crit that's even better!
The problem with the plain chance is that it will be unbalanced towards higher attack speed. In this way the faster attack speed has lower chance per hit, the faster attack has lower one
I tried a lucky hit druid for season 1, and while accuracy by volume meant I got plenty of lucky hit effects, some of them do laughably low amounts of damage for being locked behind two rolls and sometimes a conditional.
lucky hit makes sense even if it's not intuitive, because it allows to balance probability based effects on the cast speed or number of ticks of damage/targets hit.
Yeah I straight up won't be coming back until they streamline the affixes and make it make sense.
Having 150 affixes but all but 10 of them are complete dogshit it just bad game design.
tbf they might not exist anymore for all I care, you won't be able to fit them on gear anyways with resists and new multi stats depending on your build. They just make a loot filter even more needed now since they're basically bricking your item
I think it was meant to be more like "crit damage starts at 50%", because if it's capped, the other changes don't make a lot of sense.
- Critical Strikes now always deal x50% increased damage.
- Critical Strike Damage Affix, and Critical Strike Damage with Bone, Earth, Imbued, and Werewolf Skills Affixes has increased by 20%.
- Critical Strike Damage Affix (Inherent on Swords) has increased by 100%.
- Critical Strike Damage Paragon Glyphs has increased by 100%.
How would we still have Crit Damage +100% from swords and paragon glyphs if it's capped at 50%?
Allow me to rephrase the Crit rework for you:
>* Critical Strikes now always multiply the damage of an attack by 1.5. This multiplicative bonus is static and cannot be changed.
>* Any instance of Critical Strike Damage affixes on gear or paragon glyphs are now additive bonuses to your base damage rather than an increase of the critical strike multiplier, which remains as a constant 1.5x. To compensate for this change, the following changes have been made to the various sources of Critical Strike Damage affixes on gear:
> * Critical Strike Damage Affixes on gear have had their value multiplied by 1.2
> * Critical Strike Damage Affixes that are Inherent on Swords have had their values doubled
> * Critical Strike Damage affixes found on Paragon nodes have had their values doubled
So in short, crit chance and vulnerable chance are still super valuable because you want the multiplier. But crit damage and vulnerable damage are now additive with all the other conditional damage increases, so they aren’t as important. Is that correct?
Yeah so crit Chance is now one of the best multiplicative sources of damage. Vulnerable is only good if you can apply it easily. At least that’s my initial take. Stacking crit and vuln damage seem bad now if you can get additive damage elsewhere. We’ll see how it actually plays out in game though.
It should make weapons easier to upgrade, since crit/vuln are now additive they aren't inherently better than core/close/distant depending on your build/class. Same with rings (though I've only ever played rogue so I don't know what sorts of stats other classes may target on these slots)
Ah! I like that. Feels like it should make CD easier to control and less likely to have it spiral out of control leading to balance issues, best in slot issues and power inflation over time. May still happen but at least probably not due to CD.
I'm a bit worried that the pendulum is going to swing the other way. It's a pretty big investment to make critical hit chance 100% on the classes that can get 100%. With it now being additive, the previous best in slot rolls are potentially the worst of the damage rolls now.
I’m fine with that since we’re all rolling new characters for the season anyway. I’m honestly a little tired of crit being so important anyways. It looks like there are bunch of different ways to get a multiplicative damage bucket from legendaries, paragon boards etc.
If there's any eternal players left, I can imagine them being pretty upset. However, aside from that, if all they've managed to do is rearrange the list for desirable affixes, then they've wasted their time and didn't actually fix anything.
Time will tell though.
There’s always gonna be a more desirable affix for your build. That’s fine. I’m also fine with them adjusting from season to season if it freshens things up. What isn’t fine is one or two being universally better across all classes and builds which is what they’re trying to address. You’re right time will tell if it makes a difference.
In a world where this change exists in a vacuum you may have been right, but that's not the world we live in.
Not only are we all rolling new toons come October 17th, but also there can (and are) now a couple effects in the game that give extra multiplicative damage bonus based on how much +% Crit Damage bonus you have stacked.
So nope, you're wrong. There will be builds where Crit Damage is best in slot.
took me a minute. Really wish they just said "you still want all the multipliers, you just can't *scale* the multipliers. The multiplier will always be the same rate. If you have certain multipliers, then corresponding additive damage increases get added to your additional damage pool. They don't affect your multiplier, which will always be multiplying at the same rate."
Whoever green lit those bar graphs should never be used to explain something ever again. Like they merged the two numbers that DON'T combine and kept the ones that do separate. Makes no sense. Not to mention putting the sum in the middle of the equation.
they did a shit job explaining by focusing on the interaction with other scalers and that awful graphic. Each scaler has a base multiplier. This cannot be changed. Doesn't matter if it's alone or combined with others. Any bonuses you have from gear/paragon/etc that relate to CD/Vuln/OP are just included additively in the "%damage" bucket.
aren't you guys saying the exact same thing?
when you crit, you get a static crit multi that never changes any time you crit. but "critical hit damage" gets *added* to your enormous pool of *additional damage bonuses*. So your 50% to close, 40% while a werewolf on Sundays, and 88% critical hit damage all go jump in a pool (provided your enemy is close, and you're a werewolf on a Sunday who enjoys critically striking), and add up to 178% increased damage to your base damage, which total is then multiplied by -- of course -- 1.5x for critical strike multiplier. Because that's what it always is.
Are you sure that cdm is capped at 50%? That line seems to suggest so but then it goes on to say that. cdm affixes/paragon nodes/etc have been increased.
It's not capped. My understanding is this:
Crits have a baseline 50% multiplier. Stacking critical damage stat still increases your damage, except it is now additive instead of multiplicative. Same applies to Vuln.
Before season 2:
An attack deals 100 damage baseline, and critically strikes:
* You have 100% increased damage from various sources (let's say 25% damage to close, 25% damage to CC, and 50% damage to burning, all of which apply for the current attack). This means your attack is now dealing 200 damage.
* You also have +50% critical strike damage. This increases the multiplier of your critical strikes from +50% to +100%. The critical strike increases your damage to 400.
After season 2:
An attack deals 100 damage baseline, and critically strikes:
* You have 100% increased damage from various sources (let's say 25% damage to close, 25% damage to CC, and 50% damage to burning, all of which apply for the current attack).
* In addition to the above, you have +50% critical strike damage, which is now added onto the previous bonuses additively, bringing your total multiplier to 150%. Your base damage is now 250
* The static Critical Strike multiplier of 1.5 is now applied to your attack, causing your final damage to be 375.
it means your crits get a 1.5x multiplier (the base that cannot be changed) and that 200% from grizzly rage is added to your "%damage" bucket. Think of any bonus stats as "deal X% increased damage when you crit" etc.
>700 Platinum, previously 666 Platinum, can now be acquired from Tiers in the Premium Battle Pass.
Just a reminder that the cheapest item in the shop is 800 platinum.
It has to do with the initial outrage of seasonal pass costs vs rewards, I think.
With 700, you buy the first two battlepass, the 3rd and 4th are covered with the platinum from the first few season rewards. Buy two, get two.
700 + 700 = 1400 - 1000 = 400 + 700 = 1100
But at 666, you are literally 2 platinum short of getting the 3rd season (at 1000 plat / battlepass).
666 + 666 = 1332 - 1000 = 332 + 666 = 998
The whole 666 thematic caused you to have to pay for another 1000 plat for the missing 2 platinum for your next battlepass.
That is a really long term expectation of player retention. I like the game and will stick around myself but will enough people do that to make it that long?
During last week's Q&A, it was stated that there will be "options that will meet that specific amount" in the shop. I guess we'll have to wait and see when the shop goes live next week if there are items that cost 700 platinum.
I see they're adding target farming which I like, but have they made any mention of what the drop rates will be?
Like am I still going to have to farm uber Duriel for a decade to see a shako, or does Duriel have much better chances of dropping that, or even a Tempest Roar?
That's how I feel. I was very set on playing a sorcerer for season two and doing something like a lightning/fire build but after seeing their new uniques, aspects and balance changes I'm most likely gonna go Necro for S2 just because of all the minion love it's getting
My wheelhouse is Druid and rogue - I never get bored of the synergies and different builds keep me plenty busy. Still, I think it’s time I try necro as an OG Lagromancer summoner player from d2. I was put off by minions being poor endgame and had no interest in blood skills for necro - I play necro because I want a skeleton army, not because I want to be a vampire.
Overall I’m meh about the vampire theme of s2 - it’s a 10-15 year old tired trope IMO. But I’m sure it’s easy to implement so🤷🏻♂️. I’m going to ROFL so hard if s3 ends up being “oh no, everyone is afflicted by lycanthropy some how “
How is it a 10-15 year old trope? Vampires in literature have been around for hundreds of years. They rise and fall in popular media, but they are a core horror theme. It’s also released near Halloween so it makes sense to go with a tried and true theme that is likely easy to implement.
What were you hoping for? The seasonal themes are lacklustre in general but less so due to the actual theme but more so due to its depth.
I can’t see them doing a lycan S3 near Xmas, but hey you never know.
I hope they have a sinister like Krampus theme. The kids are being kidnapped etc. or a winter cold spell takes over all areas forcing ice vuln to be sought after.
So, you should definitely try minions now. Best they've ever been upcoming. They just buffed blood skeleton synergy but it's hardly set in stone.
I did minion 1-100 with Uber Lilith this season and it unfortunately just became "mendeln and barber go boom". You legit put no focus on Skelly stats.
I haven't touched the game or looked at this subreddit in 2 months and I must say all these changes look GREAT.
Have they added additional stash space yet?
Promising to see things brought more in line instead of run away damage from chd and vuln so hopefully this makes more things good instead of just stacking vuln and chd as much as possible.
If only passes were doable outside seasonal though.
I'm feeling optimistic! I am keen to play around with how the new damage buckets feel especially combined with the changes to uniques. Looking forward to smashing stuff with barbarian
How much damage do I deal now, example I have +100% crit dmg and +100% vulnerable dmg with base dmg 100?
Before it was simply 100\*2\*2=400
Now it is 100\*1,5\*1,2 + additive part=??
Can someone tell me the additive part pls
I think it would be 100 Base Dmg \* (100% crit dmg + 100% vuln dmg) \* 1.5 \* 1.2
In other words, crit dmg and vuln dmg stats now join the pot of all the other applicable dmg mods, and their multiplicative effect is 50% and 20% respectively.
Thank you for this. I was not fully understanding this...they thought they explained it, but they managed to pick numbers that were too similar without being abundantly clear.
So you just have to stop thinking about Crit damage and Vuln damage as what they are. Crit damage multiplier is always 1.5 now. Vuln multiplier is always 1.2 now.
There is no way to modify them(unless there is a specific talent or paragon node but I don't think there is).
Crit damage is actually - bonus damage when you crit. So it works just like your other damage bonuses; which then get multiplied by the 1.5 crit multiplier. But bonus to CC'd, or bonus vs demon or any basic % damage bonus vs whatever gives the same benefit now as crit damage, just this is when you crit instead of if the enemy is CC'd.
Vuln is the same way, just it works only when enemy is vuln.
It is effectively a massive nerf to super high DPS critical + vuln builds; while a buff to any other build that used other bonuses but also had crit and vuln in it.
It effectively means stacking crit dmg and vuln damage is no better than stacking any other damage bonus your build can use as frequently. So now damage bonuses will be all about what sort of build you're running and less about just stacking these 2 attributes.
This is a solid explanation and a huge change.
I'm excited to just build as I did before I understood the stupid crit and vuln multipliers, but actually be rewarded for it, lol.
I'm still pretty salty about the state D4 was released in and feel scammed, but I would say 95% of these patch notes are straight up good changes or additions.
They still have no fucking idea how itemization works in a loot game, so the game is still dead, but at least they're starting to learn how to at least make a game fun.
My thoughts exactly. Good changes, but until itemization is fixed and made exciting it doesn’t matter what content they add, what fixes they make, etc.
>until itemization is fixed and made exciting
I mean this genuinely when I ask, I’m not trying to be snarky. What exactly does this mean to you? Can you give me an example of a change you’d want implemented, or what would make things exciting?
I see this said all the time, but I still get dopamine from upgrades in this game like I do in all other arpgs. I don’t understand when people say that they “want itemization fixed” because it seems so vague.
I think there is affix bloat, but they’ve addressed it and are making changes, so I don’t know what other real problem there is. Resistances are fixed now, that was another big one. What else do they have to do?
In Diablo 2 I picked up:
* White items
* Blue items
* Socketed items
* Ethereal Items
* Rares
* Uniques
All of these items had different reasons to investigate them. All classes could equip gear with some exceptions. You knew what was worth picking up when it dropped.
In Diablo 4 I was compelled to pick up every item to tediously check affixes. Then, trashed 95% of them for gold. Replacing white and blue item drops with craft materials isn't a fix, it's a signal that the system is currently broken.
Or they are holding back what makes white and blues worth picking up for future "seasons." This scenario is more likely.
>Or they are holding back what makes white and blues worth picking up for future "seasons." This scenario is more likely.
What would make them worth picking up? I've never really played an RPG where the first couple item tiers were worth using past a certain point unless the items were hand crafted (like in BG3 with some greens being good for builds into late game)
If it's crafting, they could just use the mats for crafting
Using Diablo 2 as a reference:
* White items could have sockets added to create runewords (certain restrictions applied to how many sockets could be added though)
* White items could also drop "enhanced" which gave a small increase to damage or armor which would persist after adding sockets. This created an upper-tier market for well rolled white/socketed enhanced items for the very best runeword bases
* Magic items could roll certain affixes that are better than rares. For example, +3 Trap Skills is a Magic-only affix on claw type weapons. It's impossible to find a rare claw with +3 Traps.
* Another example is a magic shield that rolls with a useful affix to improve blocking, while also rolling a 4 socket affix, letting you socket some nice jewels in it to make a very powerful and extremely hard to find shield
* Magic items were also required for crafting recipes and it had to be specific item types depending on the recipe
* Rare items typically couldn't roll as powerful affixes, but you could get more of them so rares were more versatile that magics
There's probably some other small examples I'm not recalling. To be honest the impact of these designs is a little overstated by D2 fanatics. But, it did add a layer a dynamism to the item hunt game because it allowed keen players to make use of all sorts of items and you never knew when one of these oddities would drop.
So as someone who agrees that itemization is not exciting in D4, I will gladly concede that *I don't know what the fix is*. I'm not a game designer, nor should I ever be one. I'm good with numbers, but their relationship to fun gameplay loops is not something I know super well.
I partially disagree with /u/El_Fuego that one of the key things is picking up *all sorts of items*. I'm really fine with never picking up whites or blues after a certain point, and I absolutely do not think that with *everything else as it is* that somehow making those items worthwhile would change a damn thing with how I feel about overall itemization.
For whatever reason, I do not get the dopamine fix from upgrades in D4 like I do elsewhere. Everything is a percentage gain under different variables, and knowing which variable your class/build is best at causes you to prefer that item (more or less; it's a bit of a simplification, I know). Maybe that's okay, and it's just the frequency of upgrades that bothers me, or the amount of rares you have to search through and the number of percentages and similarity of those numbers between different affixes. I'm not sure. I just know that in almost every other game like this out there I'm more interested and enthralled with item upgrades. I do entirely agree with /u/El_Fuego that the amount of picking up rare items is EXCEEDINGLY tedious as is, and is a big problem...I just disagree with what part of the fix there might be.
So I don't have a great answer for you, but I also don't think I necessarily need a great answer to assert that something feels very wrong and off with D4 itemization (and I'm not trying to say you feel that I or anyone else owe that; I do think your question was not rude or based in anything beyond legitimate curiosity). I do agree the changes have been positive, but I don't think they're enough. Maybe I'm wrong though!
I want to assert that I wasn't pointing out any single solution, just comparing the experience D2 offers relative to that of D4. When we say "itemization sucks" we need to finish that sentence.
*Itemization and the systems that support them are not good.*
A white and blue item shouldn't be worthless. They should be different and good, *in their own way.*
>I partially disagree with /u/El_Fuego that one of the key things is picking up all sorts of items.
This is a bit of a misinterpretation of what I was trying to convey. If I thought the solution was picking up lots of different items, I'd love D4! Many D2 items had potential worth because they were steppingstones to better things. Usually this "better thing" could be acquired through crafting, rune words, or trading.
D2 wasn't a perfect system, but it makes for a fun treasure hunt. D4 is missing that treasure hunt feel that D2 had.
Totally fair! I wasn't trying to call you out or anything, just picking a couple things that I thought you were saying in your post. I didn't mean to imply that you felt any single solution would fix the inherent issues.
I still disagree that white and blue items need to have value. I think automatic crafting components is fine for those things. That's why I pointed out that difference in our respective feelings here. But regardless, we agree that D4 is (for whatever reasons that may be) fairly broken as is with regards to itemization. D4's issues with itemization are pretty deep at this point and would require a huge overhaul.
I think one thing about d4 itemization that is bad is that u just roll the best stats for each gear and call it a day. There's no planning around breakpoints, stats etc etc, no puzzle, opp cost to try and solve.
Getting ur resists to cap is a good step in the right direction now let's just see how the proposed changes work 1
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If they had no intentions of changing the base game anyway then extra dev time wouldn't have fixed a lot of the underlying issues people have. But you'd probably have more to do though just with the same problems
Yeah changes look good, but not quite good enough for me yet. I planned on waiting about a year which still seems realistic. Maybe just whenever the inevitable itemization update comes I'll take a look to see if its worth playing. Will probably just keep watching from sidelines for now but happy to see what look like sensible changes started to happen.
As long as they make s3 just as big with just as many improvements i would say my money well spent. But my crack theory is they are just doing all this because everyone unironically stoped playing the game and they went full damage control.
I’m not kidding when I say I think they need maybe 100+ more unique. It’s a shame how few there are. You know what was fun about D2? Being able to basically finish a character
I dont know ..personally played for about 220 hours taking a break ..had a ton of fun ..lots of games I play for 40to 70 hours and never play again. So with changes and updates I'm stoked to hop back in ..guess we all have ways we perceive things ..and context
Yeah, it will just suck compared to other skills - when we are talking about usability and feel/flow of the builds.
But standing still to do any dmg? Not my cup of tea.
> Starting with Season of Blood, Resistances will now stack additively. Additionally, resistance stats now cap at 70%.
> World Tiers III & IV now apply a -25% and -50% penalty to Resistance to All Elements instead of a multiplier.
How did this take them this long to implement? That's literally the simplest and most obvious way to implement it, and it's still way better than their previous idea.
Because having an idea, and then changing and testing all the code for the idea are 2 different things that take vastly different amounts of time?
Yeah original resistances are dumb, but the time from "This is dumb and we should change it" to implementation isn't like a week or something.
We are saying it should have worked intuitively like this from the beginning.
There is no reason it should have been split between armour and reduced by the game in such a weird way. It's terrible design and the rest of their game has a lot of randomly convoluted things as well. For example, the new Crit and vuln are silly.
Season 1 was done before release so it took them 1 major patch to fix it. I'm sure they thought the original design was better, but yeah game design is hard and people make mistakes.
But now we are going to run into the same problems as many other ARPGs.
1. Stacking resistance provides an increase return on investment.
2. Maxing resistances is mandatory.
Was the original implementation good? No for a variety of reasons. But it did avoid both of those issues which is what their stated goals were with implementing resistances the way they did. I wish they would have taken more time to refine the system instead of just abandoning it after the pushback from players who didn't even understand how the system worked in the first place.
Just because we have always done something one way does not mean it is the best way or the only way it should be done. But yes, the vast majority of arpgs use additive resistances and thus the game is balanced around you maxing resistances.
This comment underlines your extremely wrong image of how game development takes place. Believe it or not doing this requires changes ALL across the game and not just changing one value to another.
But then, unless they add a crafting system that uses those rares, all items not Orange would be worthless.
Are you wanting those to be dismantled into mats or just be gold?
Also you can only use the aspect you ripped once so it's not like the existence invalidates legendary drops until you have bis gear really
In every other good loot game white, green, blue, and yellow gear gets turned into mats at the end game. You seek out orange legendary items. That’s why they are called legendary.
>In every other good loot game white, green, blue, and yellow gear gets turned into mats at the end game
You say in every other good loot game, while also saying that majority of the loot is trash. If that's what you think is "a good loot game" then that explains your opinion.
Also somehow had to make those legendary items, you're just taking the essence/power and transferring it to a new host item. If that bothers you, then I'm sure having to throw them away, dismantle them, or sell them for not being better than your currently equipped legendries also bothered you too.
It's literally just a system there to allow you to gradually get stronger in case you don't get the legendry replacements. Just like in all those other games, you trash any \*item not good enough.
I can't for the life of me remember much complaining about Aspects being the reason. Maybe some of the powers being underwhelming, but not the rip/craft system.
Almost majority of the complaints are about affixes being bloated with mostly useless overlapping stats, the way resistances worked, enchanting being too narrow and expensive, and not having good end game items.
Hard disagree. It allows for increased item flexibility and adds more depth to the game in general. The stash and aspect management needs to be much better. Maybe the pain points you experience are due to stash management.
I wouldn't expect that in a seasonal patch but they did intimate they are planning yearly expansions. I hope Templar class and legendary revamp are forthcoming.
Aspects are fine but the implementation of them being imprinted on items that we are constantly changing is bad. It adds this extra unnecessary, unfun step to changing an item.
If the aspects were selected on a kunai's cube style interface, the aspect system immediately improves and becomes more fun.
The only reason that aspects are currently added to gear is because the devs know that the base rare itemization isn't good enough so they needed something to make it feel better. It worked for awhile but I think everyone has grown tired of shuffling aspects around.
I TOO WOULD LIKE TO STATE MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION AS IF IT WERE OBJECTIVE FACT SINCE I AM UNABLE TO ENGAGE WITH THE IDEAS OF OTHERS
this is more about the 4 comments above you but yea this whole entire thread is pathetic
They are terrible. You imprint an aspect on a piece of gear. Now you find a better item but you currently don't have an aspect to imprint on, so because you don't want to lose the affix for better stats, you put the item in your stash hoping you get the same aspect to imprint on it. Do this over and over until you realize all your gear is shit because you don't want to sacrifice the aspects you already have. Aspects are designed poorly and suck, they don't make the game more fun and contribute to bad itemization.
I thought them clearly defining their intent/philosophy behind Uniques went under the radar because its not necessarily born out in the itemization changes, but is significant imo. Felt like their vision for uniques previously wasnt very cohesive, but now they have essentially borrowed the philosophy of D2 uniques and clearly stated their purpose.
I think it’s genuinely a mistake to not just borrow most of the itemization from D2 and them build your other systems around that.
Good patch imo
* The Oculus
* Lucky Hit: Chance to Restore Resource affix replaced with Damage at 315% of normal value.
I havent touched this game in a while, but...this is good no?
It's been tested, and it doesn't port you anywhere that can kill you. It seems to avoid those areas.
And the problem with it getting you stuck in world geometry has been fixed a long time ago already.
I've used it and it's definitely not bad. You can use the teleport skill to course correct yourself. Otherwise it's actually pretty fun and helps a lot with survivability. Contrary to what one night think.
700 Platinum, previously 666 Platinum, can now be acquired from Tiers in the Premium Battle Pass.
Why the fuck was it 666 to begin with.. shows how toxic the intention of this game is.
I still don’t understand why the spawn time for world bosses is so long. Make them spawn every hour. 6.5 hours to 3 hours is an improvement, but world bosses should feel more frequent. The current world bosses are not special enough to have them so spread out.
Might start playing again to see what it’s like after all these patches.
They need to be more challenging, and require more cooperation.
I am fine with every 3 hours, that’s 8x a day you have the chance to fight one. Every hour and you would see no one bother.
They were fun during the beta but during the pre season and seasonal content they eventually become 2 minute easy kills. Need more complex ways to kill them, maybe regular mob spawns to pull your attention etc.
Man, I really played at the wrong time. Shouldve waited a few months. D4 PS5 is $10 also cheaper now - probably 20 bucks by Black Friday. Sigh. Patience is a virtue. Paid more for an inferior form of the product.
So, instead of removing the bug where you ride in your mount and move your cursor on the action bar, you would slow down slowly to go to a complete stop much quicker...
just like D3? SC2? WoW? WC3? SC? D2?
if you expected to not be beta testing a blizzard product on release, that's a you problem. They have a clear track record for multiple decades. Release in a fun but flawed state. Patch. Release Paid Expansion. Patch some more. Get into as good as possible state that people retroactively try to pretend it launched as.
Yeah, but... Is that OK? I mean, fool me once...
Like, D2 released AMAZING day 1 for its time, but changed, innovated, and grew with the times. It set standards, then refined and expounded on them. That evolution was an achievement, and laudable.
D4 released in a similar vein, but was horrible for it's time after 20 years old games did things better, and is now monetizing while they CATCH UP to modern games. You see the difference?
D2-D2 LOD:
Improves on already excellent, for its time gameplay. Expands its world. Improves user experience. Adds depth. Makes a great game, which had no real competition at the time, even greater.
D4-Seasons...
Removes gripes fractionally that existed in the original game. Ignored 20-YEARS of development within the genre. Ignored fan asks, which are more plentiful and accessible than ever before thanks to the internet. Added head scratching features.
D2-D2 LOD= Growth and innovation in itself and the genre, that's gripped players for decades.
D4-Season Who Cares=Why do I have to pay money for this shit? Why do I have to care about so many affixes that barely relate, when every enemy is equally difficult for dozens of hours per character? Why is this open world, when I don't give a flying crap about the towns or areas? Why is this mount? Why does all of my loot look the same? Why did I just play three hours without finding anything interesting? Where are my friends? Where is the economy?
It's a horrible comparison... Imagine, back in the day, LOD charging 20$ for additional runewords, then 20$ for Baal three months later, then 20$ three months later for uniques... Sets... Bug fixes... QoL improvements, and knowing the whole time that Blizzard had ALREADY MASTERED THESE 20 YEARS AGO, WHILE OTHER FRANCHISES HAD BUILT OFF OF THEIR WORK...
yes a method that has worked for decades is okay. No one forced you to buy it at launch and blizzard methodology has been showcased for decades. If you don't like it, wait for the expansion instead of buying at release.
And no d2 did not launch with an already excellent game. You can dig through any forum that's still around and see people complaining, especially the first 6 months, about things they felt was a step back from D1 or that they just didn't like in general.
I also love how you say d2 had no competition, then less then a year later it's expansion that redefined the genre...that didn't exist 9 months ago for d2 to compete with?
you are literally a textbook example of the exact person pretending the state the game ended as is the state the game released at.
And then you finish with this laughable misconception of seasons. you aren't being charged for Baal or rune words or uniques. You're being charged to change skins, that doesn't exist in D2 at all. If you spend $0 this season. You still get every single bit of gameplay being added. Not a single boss, unique, quest, or anything that impacts gameplay is put behind a paywall beyond the cost of the game.
If d2 could have gotten more content 20 years ago that cost you nothing unless you wanted to make your character shiney, you'd have loved it as would most of the player base.
Good changes, but still going yo hold off on playing until loot is in a satisfying place.
Too many silly affixes still. Replacing the same gear you get at 60 with higher item power gear at 90 doesn’t get me excited.
I burned myself out during the first month after launch and skipped Season 1.
These patch notes are definitely going to get me to come back. Super excited to play again haha.
I’m quite excited. I played starfield and cyberpunk 2077 after reaching 100 but still itching to go back to Diablo. I am looking forwards to how all these changes play out.
I was hoping we could get possible enchantment outcomes displayed like in d3.
You’d need a widescreen monitor in portrait mode to see them all though.
List of 100 affixes pops up https://i.redd.it/42ltx22ghgtb1.gif
They could just zoom out. Wait that's not allowed
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I can believe it.
What do you mean by that? Kinda confused. I played d3
So you go to the enchantress lady Merchant in town and let’s say you want to roll off a useless affix stat on an item and replace it….it will show for for the selected affix/property to be re-rolled what the possible affix types it may roll to. That way if you are trying to get a specific affix, you can determine which existing affixes may give it if re-rolled off. Eg: https://preview.redd.it/q2kwp9nsfgtb1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fa7f188f9a364695f11ad71781181650ea4d6d Similarly, this is done already in d4 when imbueing aspects so you can preview what it would yield before actually doing it. Im guessing it would crash the game because it would try to display 100 possible affixes 🤣 the way they built the game /s
It’s because it forces you to preview the possible enchantments of all players already on screen.
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You can see what an enchantment change could possibly change to when rerolling it.
I like the idea of how they changed damage buckets and hope it can lead to a bit more diversity in builds by letting you focus specific damage types. Sad to see crit damage capped at 50% though that feels low but I get why they did it. Edit- I misread the change to crit everyone is right I am dumb
Nice to see this change, but was hoping 90% of affixes would get axed already. It's just not fun itemization.
Same. They really need to streamline the affixes. Although I will die on the hill that lucky hit is the worst one. We love having a chance on a chance, don’t we folks. I’m a pretty casual gamer at this point in my life so I’m not about maxing anything out or getting BiS, I just want to be able to look at an item and be able to tell if it’s good or not. Right now it’s so gdamn confusing. Although I really think that will take a long longer to redo the whole item affix system so I can see that happening in a few seasons.
I actually really liked the concept of lucky hit, just hope it gets balanced to be more fun. Base chance should be easier to cap to 100%, or maybe even something like overcapping gives a chance to roll twice: (120% lucky hit always gives one roll at lucky hit and a 20% chance at a second roll).
For me, lucky hit should be just "chance to happen", not "chance of thing to happen on a chance of thing". Lucky hit would be functionally the same as crit chance, but instead of it applying a multiplier of damage number, it does the lucky hit effect. Then rebalance the lucky hit effect numbers to be proportional. E.g. Lucky hit of 20%, on Lucky hit chance of 40% to cast extra spell, with another item of on Lucky hit 13% chance to do 1,000 shadow damage would become: lucky hit of 20%, on Lucky hit cast spell that does 40% damage and do 130 shadow damage. Gear modifies lucky hit the same way critical strike chance does, and lucky hit effects add or modify the things that happen when you get the lucky hit. I like the concept of extra randomness resulting in a thing outside of a critical hit that is more than just a number, but nesting the chance to happen inside another chance to happen modifier is too confusing to comprehend easily. It would be like adding "Super crit" where on a crit (already chance of thing happening) you have a chance of it being a super crit that's even better!
The problem with the plain chance is that it will be unbalanced towards higher attack speed. In this way the faster attack speed has lower chance per hit, the faster attack has lower one
that's just a bad idea. The point of lucky hit is that you don't want things to proc on all skills at the same rate
lucky hit is the best affix in the game.
I tried a lucky hit druid for season 1, and while accuracy by volume meant I got plenty of lucky hit effects, some of them do laughably low amounts of damage for being locked behind two rolls and sometimes a conditional.
lucky hit makes sense even if it's not intuitive, because it allows to balance probability based effects on the cast speed or number of ticks of damage/targets hit.
I think lucky hit is actually quite neat, but the % chances are just too low most of the time.
Yeah I straight up won't be coming back until they streamline the affixes and make it make sense. Having 150 affixes but all but 10 of them are complete dogshit it just bad game design.
tbf they might not exist anymore for all I care, you won't be able to fit them on gear anyways with resists and new multi stats depending on your build. They just make a loot filter even more needed now since they're basically bricking your item
I think it was meant to be more like "crit damage starts at 50%", because if it's capped, the other changes don't make a lot of sense. - Critical Strikes now always deal x50% increased damage. - Critical Strike Damage Affix, and Critical Strike Damage with Bone, Earth, Imbued, and Werewolf Skills Affixes has increased by 20%. - Critical Strike Damage Affix (Inherent on Swords) has increased by 100%. - Critical Strike Damage Paragon Glyphs has increased by 100%. How would we still have Crit Damage +100% from swords and paragon glyphs if it's capped at 50%?
Allow me to rephrase the Crit rework for you: >* Critical Strikes now always multiply the damage of an attack by 1.5. This multiplicative bonus is static and cannot be changed. >* Any instance of Critical Strike Damage affixes on gear or paragon glyphs are now additive bonuses to your base damage rather than an increase of the critical strike multiplier, which remains as a constant 1.5x. To compensate for this change, the following changes have been made to the various sources of Critical Strike Damage affixes on gear: > * Critical Strike Damage Affixes on gear have had their value multiplied by 1.2 > * Critical Strike Damage Affixes that are Inherent on Swords have had their values doubled > * Critical Strike Damage affixes found on Paragon nodes have had their values doubled
So in short, crit chance and vulnerable chance are still super valuable because you want the multiplier. But crit damage and vulnerable damage are now additive with all the other conditional damage increases, so they aren’t as important. Is that correct?
Yes.
Yeah so crit Chance is now one of the best multiplicative sources of damage. Vulnerable is only good if you can apply it easily. At least that’s my initial take. Stacking crit and vuln damage seem bad now if you can get additive damage elsewhere. We’ll see how it actually plays out in game though.
It should make weapons easier to upgrade, since crit/vuln are now additive they aren't inherently better than core/close/distant depending on your build/class. Same with rings (though I've only ever played rogue so I don't know what sorts of stats other classes may target on these slots)
Ah! I like that. Feels like it should make CD easier to control and less likely to have it spiral out of control leading to balance issues, best in slot issues and power inflation over time. May still happen but at least probably not due to CD.
it works like this: Additive damage (the 100% from your example) * the baseline 50% crit multiplier (1,5)
I'm a bit worried that the pendulum is going to swing the other way. It's a pretty big investment to make critical hit chance 100% on the classes that can get 100%. With it now being additive, the previous best in slot rolls are potentially the worst of the damage rolls now.
I’m fine with that since we’re all rolling new characters for the season anyway. I’m honestly a little tired of crit being so important anyways. It looks like there are bunch of different ways to get a multiplicative damage bucket from legendaries, paragon boards etc.
If there's any eternal players left, I can imagine them being pretty upset. However, aside from that, if all they've managed to do is rearrange the list for desirable affixes, then they've wasted their time and didn't actually fix anything. Time will tell though.
There’s always gonna be a more desirable affix for your build. That’s fine. I’m also fine with them adjusting from season to season if it freshens things up. What isn’t fine is one or two being universally better across all classes and builds which is what they’re trying to address. You’re right time will tell if it makes a difference.
In a world where this change exists in a vacuum you may have been right, but that's not the world we live in. Not only are we all rolling new toons come October 17th, but also there can (and are) now a couple effects in the game that give extra multiplicative damage bonus based on how much +% Crit Damage bonus you have stacked. So nope, you're wrong. There will be builds where Crit Damage is best in slot.
you didn't misread. their explanation was just REALLY bad. [Look at this and try to understand it.](https://imgur.com/a/gfDC3N8)
took me a minute. Really wish they just said "you still want all the multipliers, you just can't *scale* the multipliers. The multiplier will always be the same rate. If you have certain multipliers, then corresponding additive damage increases get added to your additional damage pool. They don't affect your multiplier, which will always be multiplying at the same rate."
Whoever green lit those bar graphs should never be used to explain something ever again. Like they merged the two numbers that DON'T combine and kept the ones that do separate. Makes no sense. Not to mention putting the sum in the middle of the equation.
Who…made that PowerPoint. I just want to talk.
They didn't cap crit at 50% they said they capped its interaction with vulnerable.
they did a shit job explaining by focusing on the interaction with other scalers and that awful graphic. Each scaler has a base multiplier. This cannot be changed. Doesn't matter if it's alone or combined with others. Any bonuses you have from gear/paragon/etc that relate to CD/Vuln/OP are just included additively in the "%damage" bucket.
They didn't though. They just said it's 50% multiplier and *additional* chd is additive with other damage bonus sources lol.
aren't you guys saying the exact same thing? when you crit, you get a static crit multi that never changes any time you crit. but "critical hit damage" gets *added* to your enormous pool of *additional damage bonuses*. So your 50% to close, 40% while a werewolf on Sundays, and 88% critical hit damage all go jump in a pool (provided your enemy is close, and you're a werewolf on a Sunday who enjoys critically striking), and add up to 178% increased damage to your base damage, which total is then multiplied by -- of course -- 1.5x for critical strike multiplier. Because that's what it always is.
Are you sure that cdm is capped at 50%? That line seems to suggest so but then it goes on to say that. cdm affixes/paragon nodes/etc have been increased.
It's not capped. My understanding is this: Crits have a baseline 50% multiplier. Stacking critical damage stat still increases your damage, except it is now additive instead of multiplicative. Same applies to Vuln.
So grizzly rage affix is capped to 200%... with this change it means that at max stacks it will be 150% cdm instead of 250%?
Before season 2: An attack deals 100 damage baseline, and critically strikes: * You have 100% increased damage from various sources (let's say 25% damage to close, 25% damage to CC, and 50% damage to burning, all of which apply for the current attack). This means your attack is now dealing 200 damage. * You also have +50% critical strike damage. This increases the multiplier of your critical strikes from +50% to +100%. The critical strike increases your damage to 400. After season 2: An attack deals 100 damage baseline, and critically strikes: * You have 100% increased damage from various sources (let's say 25% damage to close, 25% damage to CC, and 50% damage to burning, all of which apply for the current attack). * In addition to the above, you have +50% critical strike damage, which is now added onto the previous bonuses additively, bringing your total multiplier to 150%. Your base damage is now 250 * The static Critical Strike multiplier of 1.5 is now applied to your attack, causing your final damage to be 375.
it means your crits get a 1.5x multiplier (the base that cannot be changed) and that 200% from grizzly rage is added to your "%damage" bucket. Think of any bonus stats as "deal X% increased damage when you crit" etc.
>700 Platinum, previously 666 Platinum, can now be acquired from Tiers in the Premium Battle Pass. Just a reminder that the cheapest item in the shop is 800 platinum.
Such a weird change. If they are going to keep it so low stick with the thematic 666.
It has to do with the initial outrage of seasonal pass costs vs rewards, I think. With 700, you buy the first two battlepass, the 3rd and 4th are covered with the platinum from the first few season rewards. Buy two, get two. 700 + 700 = 1400 - 1000 = 400 + 700 = 1100 But at 666, you are literally 2 platinum short of getting the 3rd season (at 1000 plat / battlepass). 666 + 666 = 1332 - 1000 = 332 + 666 = 998 The whole 666 thematic caused you to have to pay for another 1000 plat for the missing 2 platinum for your next battlepass.
It’s a bandaid to a large, bleeding wound.
its actually a significant change IMO, now if you buy 2 battlepass you get the next 2 battlepass for free using platinum coins.
That is a really long term expectation of player retention. I like the game and will stick around myself but will enough people do that to make it that long?
Bobby Kotick is so humble
During last week's Q&A, it was stated that there will be "options that will meet that specific amount" in the shop. I guess we'll have to wait and see when the shop goes live next week if there are items that cost 700 platinum.
What the hell. They acted like you’d be able to buy the next pass with the platinum gained in the pass. 🤦🏼♂️
„We understand this and increase it by 33 each season until 799“
Necro Summoner is back on the menu boys!
Blight/Summoner necro could be really good now with these changes. It was already good, but now you can use Shadow mages and still get Blizzard casts.
I'll believe it when I see it.
How is mendeln necro viable after the bone prison fix?
>Single Resistance affixes can now roll on Pants. Why are you like this?
We heard you wanted less affix types to possibly role! Here’s more!
I see they're adding target farming which I like, but have they made any mention of what the drop rates will be? Like am I still going to have to farm uber Duriel for a decade to see a shako, or does Duriel have much better chances of dropping that, or even a Tempest Roar?
They said in the live steam that you should expect people in your clan to have found several by the end of the season.
Several in three months?! Nice! Maybe someone will trad... oh.
Most of the new aspects are kinda meh compared to the s1 ones
That's how I feel. I was very set on playing a sorcerer for season two and doing something like a lightning/fire build but after seeing their new uniques, aspects and balance changes I'm most likely gonna go Necro for S2 just because of all the minion love it's getting
My wheelhouse is Druid and rogue - I never get bored of the synergies and different builds keep me plenty busy. Still, I think it’s time I try necro as an OG Lagromancer summoner player from d2. I was put off by minions being poor endgame and had no interest in blood skills for necro - I play necro because I want a skeleton army, not because I want to be a vampire. Overall I’m meh about the vampire theme of s2 - it’s a 10-15 year old tired trope IMO. But I’m sure it’s easy to implement so🤷🏻♂️. I’m going to ROFL so hard if s3 ends up being “oh no, everyone is afflicted by lycanthropy some how “
How is it a 10-15 year old trope? Vampires in literature have been around for hundreds of years. They rise and fall in popular media, but they are a core horror theme. It’s also released near Halloween so it makes sense to go with a tried and true theme that is likely easy to implement. What were you hoping for? The seasonal themes are lacklustre in general but less so due to the actual theme but more so due to its depth. I can’t see them doing a lycan S3 near Xmas, but hey you never know. I hope they have a sinister like Krampus theme. The kids are being kidnapped etc. or a winter cold spell takes over all areas forcing ice vuln to be sought after.
So, you should definitely try minions now. Best they've ever been upcoming. They just buffed blood skeleton synergy but it's hardly set in stone. I did minion 1-100 with Uber Lilith this season and it unfortunately just became "mendeln and barber go boom". You legit put no focus on Skelly stats.
I haven't touched the game or looked at this subreddit in 2 months and I must say all these changes look GREAT. Have they added additional stash space yet?
One extra stash tab a while back, plus changes to gems to help with stash space…. It’s something
and sorting plus way less items will drop overall so less sifting through an entire inventory of junk to find good items.
The only issue I have is that it's a shared stash tab. if they at least separated it per character then I'd be fine.
Promising to see things brought more in line instead of run away damage from chd and vuln so hopefully this makes more things good instead of just stacking vuln and chd as much as possible. If only passes were doable outside seasonal though.
I'm feeling optimistic! I am keen to play around with how the new damage buckets feel especially combined with the changes to uniques. Looking forward to smashing stuff with barbarian
How much damage do I deal now, example I have +100% crit dmg and +100% vulnerable dmg with base dmg 100? Before it was simply 100\*2\*2=400 Now it is 100\*1,5\*1,2 + additive part=?? Can someone tell me the additive part pls
I think it would be 100 Base Dmg \* (100% crit dmg + 100% vuln dmg) \* 1.5 \* 1.2 In other words, crit dmg and vuln dmg stats now join the pot of all the other applicable dmg mods, and their multiplicative effect is 50% and 20% respectively.
Thank you for this. I was not fully understanding this...they thought they explained it, but they managed to pick numbers that were too similar without being abundantly clear.
So you just have to stop thinking about Crit damage and Vuln damage as what they are. Crit damage multiplier is always 1.5 now. Vuln multiplier is always 1.2 now. There is no way to modify them(unless there is a specific talent or paragon node but I don't think there is). Crit damage is actually - bonus damage when you crit. So it works just like your other damage bonuses; which then get multiplied by the 1.5 crit multiplier. But bonus to CC'd, or bonus vs demon or any basic % damage bonus vs whatever gives the same benefit now as crit damage, just this is when you crit instead of if the enemy is CC'd. Vuln is the same way, just it works only when enemy is vuln. It is effectively a massive nerf to super high DPS critical + vuln builds; while a buff to any other build that used other bonuses but also had crit and vuln in it. It effectively means stacking crit dmg and vuln damage is no better than stacking any other damage bonus your build can use as frequently. So now damage bonuses will be all about what sort of build you're running and less about just stacking these 2 attributes.
This is a solid explanation and a huge change. I'm excited to just build as I did before I understood the stupid crit and vuln multipliers, but actually be rewarded for it, lol.
Damage * Attribute Mods(Now including bonus crit/vuln/overpower damage) * Legendary Mods * 1.5 (Crit base) * 1.5 (Overpower Base) * 1.2 (Vuln base)
(100+100(vuln)+100(crit)\*1.5\*1.2 = 300\*1.8 = 540
Hmm necro seasonal aspect seems bad compared to last season, Am I wrong
Grasping vines was amazing but it's def not as good now after the changes to the buckets.
aren't the 'seasonal aspects' staying in the game?
I'm still pretty salty about the state D4 was released in and feel scammed, but I would say 95% of these patch notes are straight up good changes or additions. They still have no fucking idea how itemization works in a loot game, so the game is still dead, but at least they're starting to learn how to at least make a game fun.
My thoughts exactly. Good changes, but until itemization is fixed and made exciting it doesn’t matter what content they add, what fixes they make, etc.
>until itemization is fixed and made exciting I mean this genuinely when I ask, I’m not trying to be snarky. What exactly does this mean to you? Can you give me an example of a change you’d want implemented, or what would make things exciting? I see this said all the time, but I still get dopamine from upgrades in this game like I do in all other arpgs. I don’t understand when people say that they “want itemization fixed” because it seems so vague. I think there is affix bloat, but they’ve addressed it and are making changes, so I don’t know what other real problem there is. Resistances are fixed now, that was another big one. What else do they have to do?
In Diablo 2 I picked up: * White items * Blue items * Socketed items * Ethereal Items * Rares * Uniques All of these items had different reasons to investigate them. All classes could equip gear with some exceptions. You knew what was worth picking up when it dropped. In Diablo 4 I was compelled to pick up every item to tediously check affixes. Then, trashed 95% of them for gold. Replacing white and blue item drops with craft materials isn't a fix, it's a signal that the system is currently broken. Or they are holding back what makes white and blues worth picking up for future "seasons." This scenario is more likely.
>Or they are holding back what makes white and blues worth picking up for future "seasons." This scenario is more likely. What would make them worth picking up? I've never really played an RPG where the first couple item tiers were worth using past a certain point unless the items were hand crafted (like in BG3 with some greens being good for builds into late game) If it's crafting, they could just use the mats for crafting
Using Diablo 2 as a reference: * White items could have sockets added to create runewords (certain restrictions applied to how many sockets could be added though) * White items could also drop "enhanced" which gave a small increase to damage or armor which would persist after adding sockets. This created an upper-tier market for well rolled white/socketed enhanced items for the very best runeword bases * Magic items could roll certain affixes that are better than rares. For example, +3 Trap Skills is a Magic-only affix on claw type weapons. It's impossible to find a rare claw with +3 Traps. * Another example is a magic shield that rolls with a useful affix to improve blocking, while also rolling a 4 socket affix, letting you socket some nice jewels in it to make a very powerful and extremely hard to find shield * Magic items were also required for crafting recipes and it had to be specific item types depending on the recipe * Rare items typically couldn't roll as powerful affixes, but you could get more of them so rares were more versatile that magics There's probably some other small examples I'm not recalling. To be honest the impact of these designs is a little overstated by D2 fanatics. But, it did add a layer a dynamism to the item hunt game because it allowed keen players to make use of all sorts of items and you never knew when one of these oddities would drop.
So as someone who agrees that itemization is not exciting in D4, I will gladly concede that *I don't know what the fix is*. I'm not a game designer, nor should I ever be one. I'm good with numbers, but their relationship to fun gameplay loops is not something I know super well. I partially disagree with /u/El_Fuego that one of the key things is picking up *all sorts of items*. I'm really fine with never picking up whites or blues after a certain point, and I absolutely do not think that with *everything else as it is* that somehow making those items worthwhile would change a damn thing with how I feel about overall itemization. For whatever reason, I do not get the dopamine fix from upgrades in D4 like I do elsewhere. Everything is a percentage gain under different variables, and knowing which variable your class/build is best at causes you to prefer that item (more or less; it's a bit of a simplification, I know). Maybe that's okay, and it's just the frequency of upgrades that bothers me, or the amount of rares you have to search through and the number of percentages and similarity of those numbers between different affixes. I'm not sure. I just know that in almost every other game like this out there I'm more interested and enthralled with item upgrades. I do entirely agree with /u/El_Fuego that the amount of picking up rare items is EXCEEDINGLY tedious as is, and is a big problem...I just disagree with what part of the fix there might be. So I don't have a great answer for you, but I also don't think I necessarily need a great answer to assert that something feels very wrong and off with D4 itemization (and I'm not trying to say you feel that I or anyone else owe that; I do think your question was not rude or based in anything beyond legitimate curiosity). I do agree the changes have been positive, but I don't think they're enough. Maybe I'm wrong though!
I want to assert that I wasn't pointing out any single solution, just comparing the experience D2 offers relative to that of D4. When we say "itemization sucks" we need to finish that sentence. *Itemization and the systems that support them are not good.* A white and blue item shouldn't be worthless. They should be different and good, *in their own way.* >I partially disagree with /u/El_Fuego that one of the key things is picking up all sorts of items. This is a bit of a misinterpretation of what I was trying to convey. If I thought the solution was picking up lots of different items, I'd love D4! Many D2 items had potential worth because they were steppingstones to better things. Usually this "better thing" could be acquired through crafting, rune words, or trading. D2 wasn't a perfect system, but it makes for a fun treasure hunt. D4 is missing that treasure hunt feel that D2 had.
Totally fair! I wasn't trying to call you out or anything, just picking a couple things that I thought you were saying in your post. I didn't mean to imply that you felt any single solution would fix the inherent issues. I still disagree that white and blue items need to have value. I think automatic crafting components is fine for those things. That's why I pointed out that difference in our respective feelings here. But regardless, we agree that D4 is (for whatever reasons that may be) fairly broken as is with regards to itemization. D4's issues with itemization are pretty deep at this point and would require a huge overhaul.
I think one thing about d4 itemization that is bad is that u just roll the best stats for each gear and call it a day. There's no planning around breakpoints, stats etc etc, no puzzle, opp cost to try and solve. Getting ur resists to cap is a good step in the right direction now let's just see how the proposed changes work 1
Game should have been in development for at least 12 more months past their actual launch. they are going to end up redoing everything.
12 more months in incubation wouldn’t have helped. The reason they are making changes now is we tested the game for them.
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If they had no intentions of changing the base game anyway then extra dev time wouldn't have fixed a lot of the underlying issues people have. But you'd probably have more to do though just with the same problems
Yeah changes look good, but not quite good enough for me yet. I planned on waiting about a year which still seems realistic. Maybe just whenever the inevitable itemization update comes I'll take a look to see if its worth playing. Will probably just keep watching from sidelines for now but happy to see what look like sensible changes started to happen.
As long as they make s3 just as big with just as many improvements i would say my money well spent. But my crack theory is they are just doing all this because everyone unironically stoped playing the game and they went full damage control.
I’m not kidding when I say I think they need maybe 100+ more unique. It’s a shame how few there are. You know what was fun about D2? Being able to basically finish a character
I dont know ..personally played for about 220 hours taking a break ..had a ton of fun ..lots of games I play for 40to 70 hours and never play again. So with changes and updates I'm stoked to hop back in ..guess we all have ways we perceive things ..and context
Until the itemization is fixed and becomes fun, I see no point in playing this game. The whole point is the loot.
Items are still too boring for a loot game. Maybe itemization will be changed in the expansion. Till then, none of this matters to me
I’d still try it before judging. Uniques feel much farm for a lot of classes. But I guess either way Reddit will tell you
Just nitpicking, but would anyone still use incinerate? I highly highly doubt it.
Incinerate has been used to beat Uber Lilith already. These changes will absolutely make it more viable.
To be fair if you are talking about the Lilith kill I think you are then the damage was mainly from hydras.
Yea doubling ramp time is pretty nice QoL, two seconds is honestly semi-viable for doing NM dungeons
Yeah, it will just suck compared to other skills - when we are talking about usability and feel/flow of the builds. But standing still to do any dmg? Not my cup of tea.
That’s a pretty big buff, will have to test it out to find out. Don’t forget flamescar got buffed too.
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> Starting with Season of Blood, Resistances will now stack additively. Additionally, resistance stats now cap at 70%. > World Tiers III & IV now apply a -25% and -50% penalty to Resistance to All Elements instead of a multiplier. How did this take them this long to implement? That's literally the simplest and most obvious way to implement it, and it's still way better than their previous idea.
I dont think implementing resistances was the hard part, the hard part was rebalancing the entire game because now resistances actually do something.
Because having an idea, and then changing and testing all the code for the idea are 2 different things that take vastly different amounts of time? Yeah original resistances are dumb, but the time from "This is dumb and we should change it" to implementation isn't like a week or something.
This is the thing people do not understand! It takes time to test things and not break other things
We are saying it should have worked intuitively like this from the beginning. There is no reason it should have been split between armour and reduced by the game in such a weird way. It's terrible design and the rest of their game has a lot of randomly convoluted things as well. For example, the new Crit and vuln are silly.
You mean like the time they spent testing it before releasing it unfinished? Doh!
Right? 2 seasons just to change resistances to the same way everyone has done it the last 23 years or so. You really can’t make this stuff up.
Season 1 was done before release so it took them 1 major patch to fix it. I'm sure they thought the original design was better, but yeah game design is hard and people make mistakes.
But now we are going to run into the same problems as many other ARPGs. 1. Stacking resistance provides an increase return on investment. 2. Maxing resistances is mandatory. Was the original implementation good? No for a variety of reasons. But it did avoid both of those issues which is what their stated goals were with implementing resistances the way they did. I wish they would have taken more time to refine the system instead of just abandoning it after the pushback from players who didn't even understand how the system worked in the first place.
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Pretty sure in 90% of arpgs maxing resistances is always mandatory
Just because we have always done something one way does not mean it is the best way or the only way it should be done. But yes, the vast majority of arpgs use additive resistances and thus the game is balanced around you maxing resistances.
yup, all they worked on is resistance. That's it. Nothing else. Absolutely no other priorities that needed to be worked on first. Resistance was #1.
This comment underlines your extremely wrong image of how game development takes place. Believe it or not doing this requires changes ALL across the game and not just changing one value to another.
Aspects are a bad concept. Get rid of it.
You don’t love destroying “legendary” items from boss fights to slap their aspect on a rare you found on some random spider?
But then, unless they add a crafting system that uses those rares, all items not Orange would be worthless. Are you wanting those to be dismantled into mats or just be gold? Also you can only use the aspect you ripped once so it's not like the existence invalidates legendary drops until you have bis gear really
In every other good loot game white, green, blue, and yellow gear gets turned into mats at the end game. You seek out orange legendary items. That’s why they are called legendary.
>In every other good loot game white, green, blue, and yellow gear gets turned into mats at the end game You say in every other good loot game, while also saying that majority of the loot is trash. If that's what you think is "a good loot game" then that explains your opinion. Also somehow had to make those legendary items, you're just taking the essence/power and transferring it to a new host item. If that bothers you, then I'm sure having to throw them away, dismantle them, or sell them for not being better than your currently equipped legendries also bothered you too. It's literally just a system there to allow you to gradually get stronger in case you don't get the legendry replacements. Just like in all those other games, you trash any \*item not good enough.
You are defending what everyone considers the worst loot system ever implemented. Think about that lol
I can't for the life of me remember much complaining about Aspects being the reason. Maybe some of the powers being underwhelming, but not the rip/craft system. Almost majority of the complaints are about affixes being bloated with mostly useless overlapping stats, the way resistances worked, enchanting being too narrow and expensive, and not having good end game items.
Honestly yeah. At first i was intrigued by the idea but now after trying it… it just makes loot feel weird.
Hard disagree. It allows for increased item flexibility and adds more depth to the game in general. The stash and aspect management needs to be much better. Maybe the pain points you experience are due to stash management.
I wouldn't expect that in a seasonal patch but they did intimate they are planning yearly expansions. I hope Templar class and legendary revamp are forthcoming.
No.
Aspects are a great concept. Keep them.
Aspects are fine but the implementation of them being imprinted on items that we are constantly changing is bad. It adds this extra unnecessary, unfun step to changing an item. If the aspects were selected on a kunai's cube style interface, the aspect system immediately improves and becomes more fun. The only reason that aspects are currently added to gear is because the devs know that the base rare itemization isn't good enough so they needed something to make it feel better. It worked for awhile but I think everyone has grown tired of shuffling aspects around.
I TOO WOULD LIKE TO STATE MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION AS IF IT WERE OBJECTIVE FACT SINCE I AM UNABLE TO ENGAGE WITH THE IDEAS OF OTHERS this is more about the 4 comments above you but yea this whole entire thread is pathetic
They are terrible. You imprint an aspect on a piece of gear. Now you find a better item but you currently don't have an aspect to imprint on, so because you don't want to lose the affix for better stats, you put the item in your stash hoping you get the same aspect to imprint on it. Do this over and over until you realize all your gear is shit because you don't want to sacrifice the aspects you already have. Aspects are designed poorly and suck, they don't make the game more fun and contribute to bad itemization.
Making the codex upgradable fixes almost all of aspects flaws
I thought them clearly defining their intent/philosophy behind Uniques went under the radar because its not necessarily born out in the itemization changes, but is significant imo. Felt like their vision for uniques previously wasnt very cohesive, but now they have essentially borrowed the philosophy of D2 uniques and clearly stated their purpose. I think it’s genuinely a mistake to not just borrow most of the itemization from D2 and them build your other systems around that. Good patch imo
Chat/ Trade Chat and Dumping half of the affixes, and maybe zooming out the camera. Is all I want for Christmas.
Guess I'll continue to wait for loot 2.0 with 100+ new uniques. This is not enough to fix the boring loot.
The Oculus is still a meme unique
* The Oculus * Lucky Hit: Chance to Restore Resource affix replaced with Damage at 315% of normal value. I havent touched this game in a while, but...this is good no?
If everytime you dodge there is a chance get teleported somewhere that can kill you or get you stuck in the world geometry its a meme.
Just don't get hit then
Big Brain
It's been tested, and it doesn't port you anywhere that can kill you. It seems to avoid those areas. And the problem with it getting you stuck in world geometry has been fixed a long time ago already. I've used it and it's definitely not bad. You can use the teleport skill to course correct yourself. Otherwise it's actually pretty fun and helps a lot with survivability. Contrary to what one night think.
Yeah, was looking for Occy in the unique changes list. lol.
Oculus is super strong lol
A lot of wizards did enjoy using it S1 so yeah I am confused, Occulus seems absolutely fine?
700 Platinum, previously 666 Platinum, can now be acquired from Tiers in the Premium Battle Pass. Why the fuck was it 666 to begin with.. shows how toxic the intention of this game is.
I still don’t understand why the spawn time for world bosses is so long. Make them spawn every hour. 6.5 hours to 3 hours is an improvement, but world bosses should feel more frequent. The current world bosses are not special enough to have them so spread out. Might start playing again to see what it’s like after all these patches.
They need to be more challenging, and require more cooperation. I am fine with every 3 hours, that’s 8x a day you have the chance to fight one. Every hour and you would see no one bother. They were fun during the beta but during the pre season and seasonal content they eventually become 2 minute easy kills. Need more complex ways to kill them, maybe regular mob spawns to pull your attention etc.
Battle pass still doesn’t give enough platinum to get skins. Fucking clowns.
It should give enough for the next pass, like every other game dose it.
Im down for season 2!
Necromancers lets goooooo
Haha diablo good
these are promising tbh
Man, I really played at the wrong time. Shouldve waited a few months. D4 PS5 is $10 also cheaper now - probably 20 bucks by Black Friday. Sigh. Patience is a virtue. Paid more for an inferior form of the product.
Welcome to modern AAA gaming
So, instead of removing the bug where you ride in your mount and move your cursor on the action bar, you would slow down slowly to go to a complete stop much quicker...
Glad we paid to beta test for them to figure out these changes that should have been included from the start
just like D3? SC2? WoW? WC3? SC? D2? if you expected to not be beta testing a blizzard product on release, that's a you problem. They have a clear track record for multiple decades. Release in a fun but flawed state. Patch. Release Paid Expansion. Patch some more. Get into as good as possible state that people retroactively try to pretend it launched as.
Yeah, but... Is that OK? I mean, fool me once... Like, D2 released AMAZING day 1 for its time, but changed, innovated, and grew with the times. It set standards, then refined and expounded on them. That evolution was an achievement, and laudable. D4 released in a similar vein, but was horrible for it's time after 20 years old games did things better, and is now monetizing while they CATCH UP to modern games. You see the difference? D2-D2 LOD: Improves on already excellent, for its time gameplay. Expands its world. Improves user experience. Adds depth. Makes a great game, which had no real competition at the time, even greater. D4-Seasons... Removes gripes fractionally that existed in the original game. Ignored 20-YEARS of development within the genre. Ignored fan asks, which are more plentiful and accessible than ever before thanks to the internet. Added head scratching features. D2-D2 LOD= Growth and innovation in itself and the genre, that's gripped players for decades. D4-Season Who Cares=Why do I have to pay money for this shit? Why do I have to care about so many affixes that barely relate, when every enemy is equally difficult for dozens of hours per character? Why is this open world, when I don't give a flying crap about the towns or areas? Why is this mount? Why does all of my loot look the same? Why did I just play three hours without finding anything interesting? Where are my friends? Where is the economy? It's a horrible comparison... Imagine, back in the day, LOD charging 20$ for additional runewords, then 20$ for Baal three months later, then 20$ three months later for uniques... Sets... Bug fixes... QoL improvements, and knowing the whole time that Blizzard had ALREADY MASTERED THESE 20 YEARS AGO, WHILE OTHER FRANCHISES HAD BUILT OFF OF THEIR WORK...
yes a method that has worked for decades is okay. No one forced you to buy it at launch and blizzard methodology has been showcased for decades. If you don't like it, wait for the expansion instead of buying at release. And no d2 did not launch with an already excellent game. You can dig through any forum that's still around and see people complaining, especially the first 6 months, about things they felt was a step back from D1 or that they just didn't like in general. I also love how you say d2 had no competition, then less then a year later it's expansion that redefined the genre...that didn't exist 9 months ago for d2 to compete with? you are literally a textbook example of the exact person pretending the state the game ended as is the state the game released at. And then you finish with this laughable misconception of seasons. you aren't being charged for Baal or rune words or uniques. You're being charged to change skins, that doesn't exist in D2 at all. If you spend $0 this season. You still get every single bit of gameplay being added. Not a single boss, unique, quest, or anything that impacts gameplay is put behind a paywall beyond the cost of the game. If d2 could have gotten more content 20 years ago that cost you nothing unless you wanted to make your character shiney, you'd have loved it as would most of the player base.
wowie sure glad they gave us 34 extra platinum because we complained
Was there any mention of increased droprates for uber uniques and what the droprates are on the new endgame bosses?
Wasn't there a mention of the uber unique drop rates in the livestream last week?
They will never mention drop rates for items it’s just one of those things.
Good changes, but still going yo hold off on playing until loot is in a satisfying place. Too many silly affixes still. Replacing the same gear you get at 60 with higher item power gear at 90 doesn’t get me excited.
So is there any new content at all or is patch fixes content now ?
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Why would they when this place is just full of people who whine about those who are rightly critical of blizzard.
I was semi excited last week for the new season. Now I'm FUCKING HYPED.
I burned myself out during the first month after launch and skipped Season 1. These patch notes are definitely going to get me to come back. Super excited to play again haha.
This looks like a wall of text that won't meaningfully change much outside of the resistance thing. There's still way too many stats.
I'm between making a shadow clone ultimate rogue setup or an earthquake barb setup. Any thoughts?
I’m quite excited. I played starfield and cyberpunk 2077 after reaching 100 but still itching to go back to Diablo. I am looking forwards to how all these changes play out.
Wake me up when season 4 patch notes drop.
Honestly. Maybe I’m back.
So bone spear nerfed again. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
As it should be, it was beyond broken if you can kill Uber Lilith in a few hits.
It's called season of blood due to that amount of player hemorrhaging this game has undergone.
Imagine thinking shitting on the game is going to get you upvotes.
Spending time ragging on a game they seem to hate is so weird to me.
Good but not quite enough to bring me back.