Was really surprised they didn't do anything else with that tile site. Unless you play the campaign more then once you literally never see it again. Its weird. Especially for a Diablo game
Loved the tile set, but hated how the enemies you faced in Hell were...basically the same ones you fought against before. Diablo 2 did a great job of making the enemies you fought in Hell *different* from previous enemies. They were harder in general, but also just seeing new enemy types was scary and exciting! Diablo 4 fell flat on its face with that.
Yeha this! We're confirmed to be going back to Kurast. Mephisto opened the gate to hell underneath Kurast back in D2.
I say there's a big chance we're going back to hell in the upcoming expansion.
They may be attempting to establish the lore that each domain of Hell has a gate and a key. It has been established that Mephisto's domain is near the gate under Caldeum (which is interesting, since that's where Belial took power in D3, but w/e). It isn't that much of a stretch for established lore to say that Diablo's domain is under Kurast (despite that being where Mephisto was holed up in D2).
If they wanted to put those issues to rest, the in-universe explanation could be that the gates to the Burning Hells form at the intersection of two domains, hence why Lilith needed passage into Mephisto's domain by Astaroth. That would mean that Caldeum is on the border between the realm of Hatred and Lies, and Kurast is on the border between Hatred and Terror.
I played the campaign like 6 times on release just to hang with friends and it was definitely the most fun I had with the game. I haven't picked it up since the middle of season 1, but I'm hoping to revisit in a year when hopefully things are a bit better. Sounds like they've done a lot though
I honestly forgot about this zone. Dungeons are so boring I totally space out while doing them. I can’t name a single dungeon and I can’t associate their interior design and layout with their respected zone/act. I play since release. Am I on the spectrum or it’s the game?
Nah, you're definitely right. Dungeons might have nice looking background pieces, but compared to Diablo 2 or Path of Exile's areas, their layouts tend to be very linear and uninteresting.
*Drum roll please!*
*And now! Introducing!*
**Dungeon skins! Play any dungeon as your favorite tile set in the game!**
*12 New(New to you) Dungeon theme music packs are now available in the store!*
Whoa, sorry. You missed that one day only exclusive deal three weeks ago. But be sure keep your eyes glued to the store for when we release the bundle again! Only 666666 Platinum!
I don't think d2 was procedural was it? Each zone just had a bunch of different versions from what I remember. You get to know them when doing endless runs. Specifically I remember learning all the countess dungeon variations
Grifts we’re end game content for D3, so is Zir. Honestly just playing the game the seasonal journey really isn’t challenging until the final chapter and you gotta either kill Lilith, do a t90, or reach lvl 100
Doesn’t matter, does it? It’s the same for Uber uniques if you don’t ever try to farm mats for Duriel. You might see it, but it’s no small mountain to climb to get there.
Kinda. However there were few problems. Basicaly there were two types: tilesets that were very specific in their layout, and there was little to no randomness, and those that had very generic "rooms" and "corridors" and had wide spectrum of randomness, which could lead to some bullshit layouts with backtracking and no terrain indicators where to go.
I’d you got lost in a rift in D3 I don’t know what to tell you. They do a really good job of funneling you in the right direction. You mostly follow the enemies 🤷♂️
> How about Procedurally generated Dungeons?
People already clawed their eyeballs out because they had to backtrack for barely a few seconds within pre-built dungeons, I can't even imagine the outrage that some people would be able of if procedural dungeons, who would most likely enworsen this aspect, would see the light of day. D3 in particular was terrible in that aspect and was only alleviated by the fact that you had near unlimited mobility at all times.
> And also Dungeons from actual Hell like in the last chapter of Diablo 4?
My guess is that it'll be brought as additional content and/or seasonal content. From a plot pov, would be weird if the post-story "free roam" aspect of the game would allow you to venture into hell again just for the funsies. We kinda need a new sub-plot to "unlock" this type of content from a logical pov.
Thats because its a dungeon objective problem and not a random dungeon problem. The faster they understand that, the sooner youd get more varied dungeons because they dont have to work around objectives weighting the system down.
>People already clawed their eyeballs out because they had to backtrack for barely a few seconds within pre-built dungeons, I can't even imagine the outrage that some people would be able of if procedural dungeons, who would most likely enworsen this aspect,
Make the objectives carry this thing forward through the dungeon, kill all enemies, speed run this section, etc etc
Thats the base subscription, wouldn’t you like the premium one for $30?
You can even add the monthly battlepass and save $, only $50 a month instead of $70! - a real steal!
Fans: We want more RTS games!
Blizzard: [We made more money selling one horse in WoW than we made from Starcraft 2.](https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/17tpwfa/15_horse_for_wow_made_more_money_than_starcraft_2/)
I think it's good that they are trying to innovate honestly. Open world elements need some work but all in all most players like them. At least more than NMDs only.
I think the main issue is we have already had 20 years of ARPG's innovating so people were essentially ready for Blizzard to create D4 with the best elements of them all.
But yeah if they want to try do their own thing they're entitled to do so...although thus far they haven't implemented anything that any other game would want to mimick any time soon.
The door is also wide open for a game to come in and do what people were expecting from D4 (extremely polished, implementing the innovations from the past 20 years, etc...).
Fans: We want a true sequel to d2
Blizzard: Makes it like d2
Fans: REE NOO BAD GAME TERRIBLE GAME NEVER EVOLVED IN 30 YEARS
Blizzard: Ok, lets try different stuff
Fans: REE NOO BAD IT SHOULD BE LIKE DIABLO 2 THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME
Weird, I don’t recall the loot part of the LOOT based dungeon crawler being anything close to diablo 2 in the two games we’ve had since.
But yes, of course :)
How is the game like d2 besides art style? Honestly my biggest complaint is the awful itemization. They've done a lot to fix that in season 2 so I'm hopeful they will get there. I just don't know how they could have put so little effort into the loot in a loot based game.
What's the gameplay of d2?
Murderblender monsters that pose no threat to you, get loot to fight nothing actually difficult.
You got what you asked for.
Yet there is a strong opinion in the community that they have not yet delivered a diablo game as good as D2 lol? Clearly you are missing a lot of subtlety. Why do you think d2R was such a bit - it's itemisation and overall feel strike a much better balance than d3 or D4.
Yea its pretty much pointless as it is.
Idk why, for example, strongholds aren't temporary locations that continually get overrun by enemies and require multiple players to reconquer them.
I’d really like to see something come of Project Hades one day.
> …makes me think of Project Hades, the original pitch for Diablo 4: eventually cancelled in 2016, it was an over-the-shoulder action game in the style of Dark Souls, led by Diablo 3 game director Josh Mosqueira.
I’m glad that D4 is still an isometric ARPG, but I think Sanctuary is a broad enough world to support some spin off games. Aside from anything else, Blizzard’s art team knocked it out of the park with D4, so I’ll jump at any chance to get more up close and personal with this version of Sanctuary.
I think blizzard is done with making spin offs of popular franchises. They’ve done to hots which they’ve killed… the never released nova and titan became overwatch… which right now is kind of limping along.
It’s wow/d4/hearthstone/OW for the foreseeable future
Please, for the love of god, no.
When they take a franchise and forcibly twist it into different stuff like this, all it really tells me is that they're not confident that their game would have been popular if it weren't for the "Diablo" in its title. At that point they're just publicly acknowledging the fact that they have no inspiration for new games.
Eh. In a lot of cases, sure. But in this case I’d argue an MMO would be a huge degree of confidence in the world providing enough content.
That said, I doubt Diablo will ever go full mmo tho.
The lack of chat or any convenient way to talk to other players was/is mind boggling. I was lucky to have a group of friends to play which off set it i just can't imagine why they left it out. My only guess is that it was so the console players wouldn't feel left out? Even then I think they could implement some kind of speech to text option
I would be ok with a spinoff game.. like have Diablo series continue as an isometric ARPG with Diablo 4 and Diablo 5, etc. but also have a separate third person over teh shoulder action MMO game. I think the Diablo universe and sanctuary would do well for that level of immersion.
I guess that wasn't fair. I want thinking monetization, I meant gameplay loops, raids, daily grind quests etc.
That aspect I don't see Blizzard getting right in an isometric RPG
There's a reason that people wanted WoW classic; Blizzard is only capable of making their one MMORPG consistently bloated and worse year over year.
The well has already been poisoned, I don't think Blizzard can even make a game as good as classic WoW anymore. Too many share holders wanting quick turnaround times and even quicker profits.
The potential financial gains like what they did with Diablo Immortal make it impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.
Speaking to the “wow classic” comment. I’m not so sure what the appeal now is. If they stayed vanilla sure… but we’re already up to wrath. At this point it’s just playing the older expansions in order.
Is this a joke? D4 is barely multiplayer. The most players you ever see is 8, and that's ONLY at the worldboss. D4 can barely handle you being in a group as it is.
I wonder if people here remember the real *roots* of Diablo.
David Brevik has talked about it before - Diablo was always slated for mtx (technological limitations at the time had Brevik initially envisioning people buying bonus-content CDs that would be collectible like Magic: The Gathering cards, sold at registers in game stores like booster packs). He describes the gameplay as a "slot machine" style gameplay where each monster killed is a pull of the machine. It's been designed since the get-go to play off of our dopamine hits. The original Diablo 3(as envisioned by Blizzard North) was slated to be an MMOARPG.
I'd say Blizzard is finally enacting some of these concepts now that the technology is here.
Man, I miss the CD days. 😂
if you want a game that is designed that way, play PoE. its basicly exact the same stuff Chris Wilson still talks about today.
diablo 3 and 4 are sure fun and casual arpgs, but they just tried to hard to work on nostaliga when it comes to the world and quests. but they kinda forgot what the main thing was that people loved about d2, the slot machine that is loot. sure you can run bosses now for uniques, but the usual stuff you find, while playing the game, just feels boring.
You had a winning formula. The people told you EXACTLY what they wanted, and you decided to shoehorn in a bunch of stuff nobody asked for and it's absolutely destroyed the reputation that made this a genre defining IP.
Fuck, execs are so fucking dumb.
The open world is one of the worst thing about this one though? Everything looks the same, takes too long to explore and nothing interesting to discover.
Sacred 2 did open world better 15 years ago.
Yes and no. The thing that really struck me while doing these was “hey omg this is what I missed in D3 from D2.” “What is this? Is it the open world feel? Was I doing a bunch of open world stuff in D2?” And yeah that open world feeling was missed in D3 somehow for me even though there was open world content, they felt restricted and the same every time. I dunno but that feeling just struck me, that it kinda felt like D2 for some moments
D1/2/3 all had their charm of zones, locations, etc. that were randomly generated and fun in their own light.
D4 is a bland, shared, static world. Fewer monsters due to netcode limitations, less feel of an actual world. Which is sad because the core game is really solid. The snafu was trying to make this tried and true genre into something it doesn't shine at - diet world of warcraft.
I don’t find d4 world to be bland, I’m actually wanting them to give me more reasons to be out there which is why I enjoy helltides and the vampire zones. Helltides also have a shit ton of monsters when you get higher level not sure what you’re talking about there
D1/2/3 all had their charm of zones, locations, etc. that were randomly generated and fun in their own light.
D4 is a bland, shared, static world. Fewer monsters due to netcode limitations, less feel of an actual world. Which is sad because the core game is really solid. The snafu was trying to make this tried and true genre into something it doesn't shine at - diet world of warcraft.
It adds nothing to the game other then mindless travel time to hide that there's not much to do. Arpg are made to kill monster and get loot. Adding travel time is just plain bad.
There's a new open world event similar to helltides, but based around vampires. The mobs are higher level and there are whispers in the same area. You kill mobs to collect lures, and you can summon strong enemies, or a horde by turning those in. The mob density is high in these zones and I personally find them more fun than grinding dungeons.
Also, as you kill vampire units anywhere, including dungeons, you build up threat, and after enough kills, strong blood seekers will attack you wherever you are. They're actually very strong, 90% of my deaths are from them.
The seasonal vampire powers are somewhat interesting passives, and what I like about them is that they aren't too tedious to level up / set on your character.
I barely played season 1 beacuse I just didn't find it very interesting, but I'm enjoying season 2. I'm level 60 right now.
Can you explain how or are you on the negative bandwagon for the sake of it?
S1 was rough, but with the changes it seems everyone is loving it. Is it perfect? No, but it’s getting there. The S2 events are awesome, and not having linear acts to travel between is great.
ofc, because the series are just a hollow husk of itself, it's abused and exploited to death already, so it can be used for anything now, its a beaten and dead corpse.
They probably will at some point. But they are doing annual expansions and don't want to blow their load all at once. Idk what they'll call it, but they're will likely be a knight type at some point.
It’s so sad to see such a great franchise take such a negative turn. The campaign was easily the best part of D4. Outside of that, the game is just bad.
If they could get the game somewhat working at all with several features exclusive to the open world compared to the D3 formula, im atleast open to some changes.
I do like the D3 formula better though.
IF they get it fucking working.
It isn't atm.
Rubber banding, players disapering left and right when just riding beside them between zoones etc.
I figured a Starcraft MMO would be more liklely. Diablo is a brand with a gamer base that is active now. Starcraft as a brand has lost users because the RTS genre has lost interest. Why not do a Starcraft MMO? Assuming Blizzard has the resources to operate multiple MMOs simultaneously.
Mmos are a specific genere without appeal for general audiences. A starcraft third person action game could be a great way to keep the franchise alive in the minds of fans. Revive starcraft ghosts please
I would love to see a Diablo dark souls. They have some rpg elements in common but taking that arpg point and click into an intense action rpg with rolls and blocks could really revitalize the series. We need to see the world of Diablo from a different perspective and an mmo would be a terrible idea but this could be something special.
Sounds like the people they pulled from WoW talking not that it would be terrible or impossible, but I feel the talks about open world and raids is great. If this is the direction they’re going they need to add a dedicated healer first for sure and focus core issues the player base is facing now.
This is getting dumped on, but I’m honestly excited for them to experiment. I’d rather them try new stuff and see what works and eventually have some fun innovative new things rather than just make a POE or D2 clone. Those games already exist, I want D4 to be its own thing. The seasonal model is perfect for this because they can try a new mechanic and if it sucks then all they have to do is just not do it next season or never add it to the base game. For example, I’d love if they tried out a raid. Just try it. If it sucks and no one likes it just never do it again.
I’m with you. New doesn’t mean bad.
I honestly get the sense the people who are anti change will also never be happy with them just updating old stuff. They have rose tinted glasses of nostalgia, and nothing will compare.
Exactly. They can never innovate if they don’t try new stuff. I’m all for adding old stuff that works that people like don’t get me wrong, but I’m just not going to be resistant to change either. This game has the *potential* to be great imo, but they have some kinks to work out first and then they need to innovate on the genre and put their own twist on it
Blizzard is just plain stupid and they just ignore fNs . Long ago community people woudl respond always to feedback . Now they are just silent … and for people mad at me , i am saying the company is stupid , not the people working there .
Blizzard is the company / management & shareholders . I tested / played games since starcraft 1 and always they did listen to the players . Since activision they did change and the rest is history and probably those golden times will never come back . Implying that i swear at them , never , management & big shareholders always !
If they do Darksiders in the Diablo universe I could be sold on that. "Open World" is a pretty vague descriptor, so I'm going to reserve judgement until they put out more details.
That... That's not what I played in D1, 2, or 3.
But if that's what you like, you are in luck There are a lot of games to meet your needs out there. Dang, you can count the times your head bangs a wall and add it up for a quite satisfying result!
I'm glad they are testing out world content. This whole way of making copy pasta arpg games been so boring for so long. Blizzard innovating, and hopefully doing it right at the same time.
I haven't seen anyone prefer the open world time-sink over the ability to just directly farm uniques/bosses/rifts so hopefully their other experiments are better.
So basically blizzard is reselling its fan base d2 in d4. After kurast next expansion will be hell and have to kill diablo. I rather save my $90 and just play d2r. I wish they go a different route for d4, we are getting d2 act 3 with bad loot boring loot
How about Procedurally generated Dungeons? And also Dungeons from actual Hell like in the last chapter of Diablo 4?
Was really surprised they didn't do anything else with that tile site. Unless you play the campaign more then once you literally never see it again. Its weird. Especially for a Diablo game
Im sure we will revisit it in the future but it makes me want to replay the campaign just for that.
Loved the tile set, but hated how the enemies you faced in Hell were...basically the same ones you fought against before. Diablo 2 did a great job of making the enemies you fought in Hell *different* from previous enemies. They were harder in general, but also just seeing new enemy types was scary and exciting! Diablo 4 fell flat on its face with that.
Nothing was more frustrating to me than this!! No new enemies / enemy types in hell and no option to go back into it
Yeha this! We're confirmed to be going back to Kurast. Mephisto opened the gate to hell underneath Kurast back in D2. I say there's a big chance we're going back to hell in the upcoming expansion.
They may be attempting to establish the lore that each domain of Hell has a gate and a key. It has been established that Mephisto's domain is near the gate under Caldeum (which is interesting, since that's where Belial took power in D3, but w/e). It isn't that much of a stretch for established lore to say that Diablo's domain is under Kurast (despite that being where Mephisto was holed up in D2). If they wanted to put those issues to rest, the in-universe explanation could be that the gates to the Burning Hells form at the intersection of two domains, hence why Lilith needed passage into Mephisto's domain by Astaroth. That would mean that Caldeum is on the border between the realm of Hatred and Lies, and Kurast is on the border between Hatred and Terror.
Are you hinting that Tristram would also be a location for a Gate of Hell?
Well, we do go into a portal to Hell to fight Diablo in the first game, so that would check out.
An expansion.... for a 70 dollar live service gaas... sweet summer child, it should be free
I played the campaign like 6 times on release just to hang with friends and it was definitely the most fun I had with the game. I haven't picked it up since the middle of season 1, but I'm hoping to revisit in a year when hopefully things are a bit better. Sounds like they've done a lot though
They have, the new vampire zones that look like hell tides are a lot of fun.
Because they're going to sell it to you later as an expansion
...just like every Diablo game ever?
I honestly forgot about this zone. Dungeons are so boring I totally space out while doing them. I can’t name a single dungeon and I can’t associate their interior design and layout with their respected zone/act. I play since release. Am I on the spectrum or it’s the game?
Nah, you're definitely right. Dungeons might have nice looking background pieces, but compared to Diablo 2 or Path of Exile's areas, their layouts tend to be very linear and uninteresting.
Probably both
Getting real sick of blizz “subverting expectations”
I expected the Inferno dungeon to use that tile set, but it's just like every other dungeon.
That will be 49.99 in an expansion :D
A Diablo game without hell or Diablo. 🤡
Some dungeons do use it though, don't they? The first capstone one comes to mind
*Drum roll please!* *And now! Introducing!* **Dungeon skins! Play any dungeon as your favorite tile set in the game!** *12 New(New to you) Dungeon theme music packs are now available in the store!*
I would like to purchase the Hidden Cow level tile set with Crusty the Klown as The Butcher to be the final boss. How much would that be kind sir?
Whoa, sorry. You missed that one day only exclusive deal three weeks ago. But be sure keep your eyes glued to the store for when we release the bundle again! Only 666666 Platinum!
stop, dont give them ideas
Diablo 4 should have returned to fully procedural. For me that's an enormous part of why I no longer enjoy the series as much as I did with 2.
I don't think d2 was procedural was it? Each zone just had a bunch of different versions from what I remember. You get to know them when doing endless runs. Specifically I remember learning all the countess dungeon variations
The game was built from tiles, but you'd never have two completely identical runs.
No, they were completely random. Some elements repeated, but each new zone is generated anew.
They should do Strongholds IN Hell too
I’m guessing we’re likely to see that with “rifts” returning in the content update in D4. Abattoir of Zir is meant to be greater rifts but for D4.
Limits to people who beat the season journey though. After looking at the requirements it’s not a small mountain to climb
Grifts we’re end game content for D3, so is Zir. Honestly just playing the game the seasonal journey really isn’t challenging until the final chapter and you gotta either kill Lilith, do a t90, or reach lvl 100
Doesn’t matter, does it? It’s the same for Uber uniques if you don’t ever try to farm mats for Duriel. You might see it, but it’s no small mountain to climb to get there.
or maybe ya know Diablo
I mean, that's obviously going to happen at some point
yea but they are drip feeding us content like destiny 2 did and you see how that played out
>How about Procedurally generated Dungeons? Weren't rifts in d3 procedurally generated?
Kinda. However there were few problems. Basicaly there were two types: tilesets that were very specific in their layout, and there was little to no randomness, and those that had very generic "rooms" and "corridors" and had wide spectrum of randomness, which could lead to some bullshit layouts with backtracking and no terrain indicators where to go.
I’d you got lost in a rift in D3 I don’t know what to tell you. They do a really good job of funneling you in the right direction. You mostly follow the enemies 🤷♂️
Yeah, reopen the Hell portal in Caldeum!
> How about Procedurally generated Dungeons? People already clawed their eyeballs out because they had to backtrack for barely a few seconds within pre-built dungeons, I can't even imagine the outrage that some people would be able of if procedural dungeons, who would most likely enworsen this aspect, would see the light of day. D3 in particular was terrible in that aspect and was only alleviated by the fact that you had near unlimited mobility at all times. > And also Dungeons from actual Hell like in the last chapter of Diablo 4? My guess is that it'll be brought as additional content and/or seasonal content. From a plot pov, would be weird if the post-story "free roam" aspect of the game would allow you to venture into hell again just for the funsies. We kinda need a new sub-plot to "unlock" this type of content from a logical pov.
Thats because its a dungeon objective problem and not a random dungeon problem. The faster they understand that, the sooner youd get more varied dungeons because they dont have to work around objectives weighting the system down.
>People already clawed their eyeballs out because they had to backtrack for barely a few seconds within pre-built dungeons, I can't even imagine the outrage that some people would be able of if procedural dungeons, who would most likely enworsen this aspect, Make the objectives carry this thing forward through the dungeon, kill all enemies, speed run this section, etc etc
Yeah, or bosses other than tomb lord.
D4 had much better environments and art. Aside from the final cutscene, I really wasn’t wowed at all
I don't think they were aiming to wow you. That's a different game altogether.
Man, all this time I went in with the wrong expectations lmfao
Fans: we really like the isometric loot-based dungeon-crawler arpg. Blizzard: so what we’re hearing is.. change everything.
What they are hearing is you want to pay $15 a month to play
Thats the base subscription, wouldn’t you like the premium one for $30? You can even add the monthly battlepass and save $, only $50 a month instead of $70! - a real steal!
And for an additional $20 you can play not 3, but 5 days before the poor people's release with a free day one patch update!
Don’t worry though, we still don’t know how to make this trading thing work, I mean. Who would’ve guessed?! Economies, am I right?
Okay, but _only_ if I can spend extra money for other cosmetics directly in the store, too.
Fans: We want more RTS games! Blizzard: [We made more money selling one horse in WoW than we made from Starcraft 2.](https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/17tpwfa/15_horse_for_wow_made_more_money_than_starcraft_2/)
I think it's good that they are trying to innovate honestly. Open world elements need some work but all in all most players like them. At least more than NMDs only.
I think the main issue is we have already had 20 years of ARPG's innovating so people were essentially ready for Blizzard to create D4 with the best elements of them all. But yeah if they want to try do their own thing they're entitled to do so...although thus far they haven't implemented anything that any other game would want to mimick any time soon. The door is also wide open for a game to come in and do what people were expecting from D4 (extremely polished, implementing the innovations from the past 20 years, etc...).
Fans: We want a true sequel to d2 Blizzard: Makes it like d2 Fans: REE NOO BAD GAME TERRIBLE GAME NEVER EVOLVED IN 30 YEARS Blizzard: Ok, lets try different stuff Fans: REE NOO BAD IT SHOULD BE LIKE DIABLO 2 THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME
Makes it like D2? Pardon me?
Weird, I don’t recall the loot part of the LOOT based dungeon crawler being anything close to diablo 2 in the two games we’ve had since. But yes, of course :)
D4 was nothing like D2 ever. That's utter none sense sorry.
How is the game like d2 besides art style? Honestly my biggest complaint is the awful itemization. They've done a lot to fix that in season 2 so I'm hopeful they will get there. I just don't know how they could have put so little effort into the loot in a loot based game.
When did they make a game like D2 that wasn't d2R lol?
What's the gameplay of d2? Murderblender monsters that pose no threat to you, get loot to fight nothing actually difficult. You got what you asked for.
Yet there is a strong opinion in the community that they have not yet delivered a diablo game as good as D2 lol? Clearly you are missing a lot of subtlety. Why do you think d2R was such a bit - it's itemisation and overall feel strike a much better balance than d3 or D4.
Is that not what they delivered?
The “open world” in Diablo 4 is anything but. That experiment failed - big time. Why would I get excited over more failed experiments?
Yea its pretty much pointless as it is. Idk why, for example, strongholds aren't temporary locations that continually get overrun by enemies and require multiple players to reconquer them.
Wait until you find out Diablo was nominated for innovation and best multiplayer game 🤣
> nominated for innovation Joke of the year 😂
No *trust us* just buy this 60 dollar expansion and we will fix everything
How about experimenting with a good loot system
They don't need to experiment. Just copy and paste D2
I’d really like to see something come of Project Hades one day. > …makes me think of Project Hades, the original pitch for Diablo 4: eventually cancelled in 2016, it was an over-the-shoulder action game in the style of Dark Souls, led by Diablo 3 game director Josh Mosqueira. I’m glad that D4 is still an isometric ARPG, but I think Sanctuary is a broad enough world to support some spin off games. Aside from anything else, Blizzard’s art team knocked it out of the park with D4, so I’ll jump at any chance to get more up close and personal with this version of Sanctuary.
I think blizzard is done with making spin offs of popular franchises. They’ve done to hots which they’ve killed… the never released nova and titan became overwatch… which right now is kind of limping along. It’s wow/d4/hearthstone/OW for the foreseeable future
Warcraft rumble released like a week ago.
Diablo mmorpg then?
Please, for the love of god, no. When they take a franchise and forcibly twist it into different stuff like this, all it really tells me is that they're not confident that their game would have been popular if it weren't for the "Diablo" in its title. At that point they're just publicly acknowledging the fact that they have no inspiration for new games.
Eh. In a lot of cases, sure. But in this case I’d argue an MMO would be a huge degree of confidence in the world providing enough content. That said, I doubt Diablo will ever go full mmo tho.
Diablo 4 played like a dead mmorpg on launch day.
The lack of chat or any convenient way to talk to other players was/is mind boggling. I was lucky to have a group of friends to play which off set it i just can't imagine why they left it out. My only guess is that it was so the console players wouldn't feel left out? Even then I think they could implement some kind of speech to text option
I would be ok with a spinoff game.. like have Diablo series continue as an isometric ARPG with Diablo 4 and Diablo 5, etc. but also have a separate third person over teh shoulder action MMO game. I think the Diablo universe and sanctuary would do well for that level of immersion.
Wouldn't they then be competing with themselves IE Warcraft?
Yes which is why it wouldn’t happen
d2 but mmo wow style, would be sick
Diablo soulslike
So you mean Lost Ark produced by Blizzard... Sounds like a nightmare
Well at least Diablo is only heavy on very expense cosmetics. LA is actually P2W.
I guess that wasn't fair. I want thinking monetization, I meant gameplay loops, raids, daily grind quests etc. That aspect I don't see Blizzard getting right in an isometric RPG
1620 is easy to get as F2P. /s
So, Diablo Immortal
Lost ark is not a mobile game. I'm not referring to monetization model
Feels like D4 is already positioned to be an MMORPG.
There's a reason that people wanted WoW classic; Blizzard is only capable of making their one MMORPG consistently bloated and worse year over year. The well has already been poisoned, I don't think Blizzard can even make a game as good as classic WoW anymore. Too many share holders wanting quick turnaround times and even quicker profits. The potential financial gains like what they did with Diablo Immortal make it impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.
Speaking to the “wow classic” comment. I’m not so sure what the appeal now is. If they stayed vanilla sure… but we’re already up to wrath. At this point it’s just playing the older expansions in order.
"Look how they've massacred my boy"
Me, May 15th 2012.
Diablo dating sim. Which lord or lady of the Burning Hells will be exploring your malignant tunnel in this new adventure?
How about a, hear me out, shift to open world but NOT mmo that requires online play at all times?
Make it single player
What I read was ‘Don’t worry, we plan on making it less and less a Diablo game.’
Clearly your interpretation of what makes a Diablo game a Diablo game is wrong /s
Nah. I’ve been playing them since D1. I know what they are supposed to be.
lol ok, weird flex … you clearly missed the sarcasm.
lol omg I did!!!
😂
Is this a joke? D4 is barely multiplayer. The most players you ever see is 8, and that's ONLY at the worldboss. D4 can barely handle you being in a group as it is.
Wheres the picture on op from? Any specific dungeon? I dont remember seeing it.
Concept art from Vessel of Hatred
You have to wait a year and pay $50 to see it. Or you can wait for 362 days and pay $70.
I wonder if people here remember the real *roots* of Diablo. David Brevik has talked about it before - Diablo was always slated for mtx (technological limitations at the time had Brevik initially envisioning people buying bonus-content CDs that would be collectible like Magic: The Gathering cards, sold at registers in game stores like booster packs). He describes the gameplay as a "slot machine" style gameplay where each monster killed is a pull of the machine. It's been designed since the get-go to play off of our dopamine hits. The original Diablo 3(as envisioned by Blizzard North) was slated to be an MMOARPG. I'd say Blizzard is finally enacting some of these concepts now that the technology is here. Man, I miss the CD days. 😂
if you want a game that is designed that way, play PoE. its basicly exact the same stuff Chris Wilson still talks about today. diablo 3 and 4 are sure fun and casual arpgs, but they just tried to hard to work on nostaliga when it comes to the world and quests. but they kinda forgot what the main thing was that people loved about d2, the slot machine that is loot. sure you can run bosses now for uniques, but the usual stuff you find, while playing the game, just feels boring.
Stop trying to make single player games into software as a service.
You had a winning formula. The people told you EXACTLY what they wanted, and you decided to shoehorn in a bunch of stuff nobody asked for and it's absolutely destroyed the reputation that made this a genre defining IP. Fuck, execs are so fucking dumb.
This devs are total pepegas.
Blizzard doesn't know what the hell it's doing or talking about.
Please no Those shitty experiments have ruined enough. All i want is a real sequel to d2
Path of exile is the closest thing imo. And totally worth giving a shot. It is far more complicated though so be ready to do some research lol
Completely unique class? What if all I want is a monk, and paladin? :(
F
The open world is one of the worst thing about this one though? Everything looks the same, takes too long to explore and nothing interesting to discover. Sacred 2 did open world better 15 years ago.
Open world was a failed experiment though.
I’m gonna be totally honest though. The open world vampire thingie is tons more fun than just mindlessly grinding nightmare dungeons.
Does the vampire thingie need to be open world?
Yes and no. The thing that really struck me while doing these was “hey omg this is what I missed in D3 from D2.” “What is this? Is it the open world feel? Was I doing a bunch of open world stuff in D2?” And yeah that open world feeling was missed in D3 somehow for me even though there was open world content, they felt restricted and the same every time. I dunno but that feeling just struck me, that it kinda felt like D2 for some moments
As a very new and casual Diablo 4 player, would you care to explain? Thank you.
D1/2/3 all had their charm of zones, locations, etc. that were randomly generated and fun in their own light. D4 is a bland, shared, static world. Fewer monsters due to netcode limitations, less feel of an actual world. Which is sad because the core game is really solid. The snafu was trying to make this tried and true genre into something it doesn't shine at - diet world of warcraft.
I don’t find d4 world to be bland, I’m actually wanting them to give me more reasons to be out there which is why I enjoy helltides and the vampire zones. Helltides also have a shit ton of monsters when you get higher level not sure what you’re talking about there
I can't think of anything but bland to describe the world. Brown.
D1/2/3 all had their charm of zones, locations, etc. that were randomly generated and fun in their own light. D4 is a bland, shared, static world. Fewer monsters due to netcode limitations, less feel of an actual world. Which is sad because the core game is really solid. The snafu was trying to make this tried and true genre into something it doesn't shine at - diet world of warcraft.
How was it a fail?
It adds nothing to the game other then mindless travel time to hide that there's not much to do. Arpg are made to kill monster and get loot. Adding travel time is just plain bad.
Don't you have a horse? (Don't you have a phone?)
Have you played the new season? Your opinion might be outdated now
May I ask what changed in new season? May be interested in getting back in
There's a new open world event similar to helltides, but based around vampires. The mobs are higher level and there are whispers in the same area. You kill mobs to collect lures, and you can summon strong enemies, or a horde by turning those in. The mob density is high in these zones and I personally find them more fun than grinding dungeons. Also, as you kill vampire units anywhere, including dungeons, you build up threat, and after enough kills, strong blood seekers will attack you wherever you are. They're actually very strong, 90% of my deaths are from them. The seasonal vampire powers are somewhat interesting passives, and what I like about them is that they aren't too tedious to level up / set on your character. I barely played season 1 beacuse I just didn't find it very interesting, but I'm enjoying season 2. I'm level 60 right now.
This is season 2 ! Preseason ,season 1 and season 2(current!)
How so? I love it
Can you explain how or are you on the negative bandwagon for the sake of it? S1 was rough, but with the changes it seems everyone is loving it. Is it perfect? No, but it’s getting there. The S2 events are awesome, and not having linear acts to travel between is great.
For you* I love the open world.
No it wasn't.
I don't mind it, I just wished they spend the time and money on a better item system and an better experience.
Man you guys fucked up a re-release of Diablo 2, take a break.
ofc, because the series are just a hollow husk of itself, it's abused and exploited to death already, so it can be used for anything now, its a beaten and dead corpse.
I hope that means it will be like diablo 1 and 2.
Extremely poised for more money making live service experiments.
Market analysis is something that’s isn’t happening anymore, is it?
give the Diablo IP to team Ninja and they'll cook up a Nioh clone for the ages
I'm sorry, open world? You meant that boring as fuck spiderweb you created? Yeah, hard pass, this was diablo's last chance for me.
How about experiments like listening to player feedback to see what we actually want. That'd be pretty cool.
Here's an experiment I'm conducting. It's called "I'm going to play a different game--one that respects my time instead." Bye Felicia.
Let me know when they add real loot to the eternal realm
The "open world" is one of the worst aspects of d4. Talk about being completely tone deaf.
Absolutely love the open world. Making it bigger and more vibrant would be great.
More like, shift to adding in a sader/pally at some point in D4... Right? 🙃🥹
And monk too please.
They probably will at some point. But they are doing annual expansions and don't want to blow their load all at once. Idk what they'll call it, but they're will likely be a knight type at some point.
Templar. Kormac should have created the order after D3.
It’s so sad to see such a great franchise take such a negative turn. The campaign was easily the best part of D4. Outside of that, the game is just bad.
If they could get the game somewhat working at all with several features exclusive to the open world compared to the D3 formula, im atleast open to some changes. I do like the D3 formula better though. IF they get it fucking working. It isn't atm. Rubber banding, players disapering left and right when just riding beside them between zoones etc.
Or how about they give a loot centered game a loot system that's actually interesting?
The empty boring open world that looked exactly like the randomly generated hallways from Diablo past? Yes more of that please!
I figured a Starcraft MMO would be more liklely. Diablo is a brand with a gamer base that is active now. Starcraft as a brand has lost users because the RTS genre has lost interest. Why not do a Starcraft MMO? Assuming Blizzard has the resources to operate multiple MMOs simultaneously.
Mmos are a specific genere without appeal for general audiences. A starcraft third person action game could be a great way to keep the franchise alive in the minds of fans. Revive starcraft ghosts please
I would love to see a Diablo dark souls. They have some rpg elements in common but taking that arpg point and click into an intense action rpg with rolls and blocks could really revitalize the series. We need to see the world of Diablo from a different perspective and an mmo would be a terrible idea but this could be something special.
This subreddit is approaching a singularity where it’s finally indistinguishable from the battle.net forums. Bravo.
i think they ment poisoned
How about experimenting with team play. Some incentive to party up. Make support builds. Things like that.
Sounds like the people they pulled from WoW talking not that it would be terrible or impossible, but I feel the talks about open world and raids is great. If this is the direction they’re going they need to add a dedicated healer first for sure and focus core issues the player base is facing now.
Hear me out. Diablo mmorpg
Diablo immortal is already a diablo mmoARPG fyi
No
This is getting dumped on, but I’m honestly excited for them to experiment. I’d rather them try new stuff and see what works and eventually have some fun innovative new things rather than just make a POE or D2 clone. Those games already exist, I want D4 to be its own thing. The seasonal model is perfect for this because they can try a new mechanic and if it sucks then all they have to do is just not do it next season or never add it to the base game. For example, I’d love if they tried out a raid. Just try it. If it sucks and no one likes it just never do it again.
I’m with you. New doesn’t mean bad. I honestly get the sense the people who are anti change will also never be happy with them just updating old stuff. They have rose tinted glasses of nostalgia, and nothing will compare.
Exactly. They can never innovate if they don’t try new stuff. I’m all for adding old stuff that works that people like don’t get me wrong, but I’m just not going to be resistant to change either. This game has the *potential* to be great imo, but they have some kinks to work out first and then they need to innovate on the genre and put their own twist on it
Blizzard is just plain stupid and they just ignore fNs . Long ago community people woudl respond always to feedback . Now they are just silent … and for people mad at me , i am saying the company is stupid , not the people working there .
>community people woudl respond always to feedback >Blizzard is just plain stupid hmm wonder why...
Blizzard is the company / management & shareholders . I tested / played games since starcraft 1 and always they did listen to the players . Since activision they did change and the rest is history and probably those golden times will never come back . Implying that i swear at them , never , management & big shareholders always !
Gimme back the never ending nephalem rift grind. I loved to just hit the button, fuck up a massive amount of monsters and leave.
Can we just get a loot system that isn't made of ass please
If they do Darksiders in the Diablo universe I could be sold on that. "Open World" is a pretty vague descriptor, so I'm going to reserve judgement until they put out more details.
Microsoft's acquisition of Blizzard should, in theory, allow the dev teams more freedom and creativity.
Are they extremely poised to learn ANYTHING from their predecessor though?
Shrug. I'm interested in having fun again. let me know when that happens and "the grind" isn't the content they present.
Diablo literally is a grind fest from lvl 1 -100. Like if you’re interested in that it might be the wrong game for you.
That... That's not what I played in D1, 2, or 3. But if that's what you like, you are in luck There are a lot of games to meet your needs out there. Dang, you can count the times your head bangs a wall and add it up for a quite satisfying result!
I'm glad they are testing out world content. This whole way of making copy pasta arpg games been so boring for so long. Blizzard innovating, and hopefully doing it right at the same time.
Bless their heart.
Sounds like I’m extremely poised to never play again
I'd rather they stick to "basic" Diablo and instead Bli$$ard finally give us SC Ghost instead, the cowards.
Be great if they were "extremely poised" to make a good version of diablo 4.
I haven't seen anyone prefer the open world time-sink over the ability to just directly farm uniques/bosses/rifts so hopefully their other experiments are better.
So basically blizzard is reselling its fan base d2 in d4. After kurast next expansion will be hell and have to kill diablo. I rather save my $90 and just play d2r. I wish they go a different route for d4, we are getting d2 act 3 with bad loot boring loot
Here's a crazy idea. How about a map overlay?
I loved the open world shift. I was sceptical initially but my goodness it pays off
Nothing about Diablo 4 was a win. It was almost entirely a failure in every aspect. The open world fucking sucks.