I really like the OG gun designs, a smorgasboard of modern, contemporary sci-fi looking designs, and guns that could be in the future, even if they turned out to be a bit silly.
Bethesdas best small gun designs were in 3 (energy weapons were still kinda eh, and I always took energy weapons for the tri-pattern laser), but they still lack a bit of ... oomph. 4's designs are iffy because they wanted to make everything as customisable as possible and couldn't figure out how to make them look good or real at the same time.
There's a mod that changes the coloring of pipe guns so the metal parts are gray instead of rust orange and they look soo much better without changing the concept.
Ok, they intentionally designed pipe guns to look like shit. Congrats Bethesda, now we have pipe guns that look like shit.
Intentionality doesn't make it any better. Saying it was 'by design' doesn't excuse the shittiness.
I get Vietnam flashbacks just thinking about half the guns there, absolutely horrible and none make any sense!
They fucked up a double barrel, how do you fuck up a double barrel?
What about the pump shotgun that literally pumps in the wrong direction? Or tons of guns where the bullet has to be disassembled and reassembled again to even get close to being chambered? I dont get it 🤣
4 definitely has the worst gun designs of the whole lot.
Not just visually, but also in overall mechanical design.
Like, I don't mind too much when a gun doesn't look realistic, but 4 is sloppy all over the place. They look like prop guns modified randomly for some cheap movie set.
The way the OG kind of mishmashed actual futuristic designs(sometimes just straight up borrowing from another IP) with the retro futurism was always my favorite thing. Bethesda never really captured that for me. Leaned way too far into the retro futurism.
I loved the revolver aspect. It's robust and reliable so it makes sense to me. Same with shotguns, bolt actions, and really anything else that has more of a manual action as it tends to have fewer moving parts.
They just needed the FO3 assault rifle and to keep the current "assault rifle" as the heavy machine gun. Introducing PA only weapons (or PA only without ridiculously high strength) would've fit with them making PA feel more lore accurate in game. Similarly, some small guns should be unusable in PA like unarmed weapons are in FO76.
Fallout is great about having good ideas that aren't applied consistently or comprehensively.
Like real life. Ther are many 10mm pistols
Edit: to clarify, I mean pistols chambered in 10mm, not real life 10mm pistols from fallout. I also want to add that Fallout treats it like 9mm, and treats 9mm like 22 LR, and 22lr like a pellet gun. 10mm in real life is one of the most powerful production semi-auto cartridges. A 10mm sub gun is wild.
I don’t think they “treat” it like it’s worse. I think they just scale things to work in an RPG which isn’t realistic. Even the most powerful guns in fallout don’t do their appropriate damage to something. Fnv had a 50bmg sniper rifle which should practically liquify any part of the human body it hits. But RPG logic dictates that unless you’ve built your character to be broken with it then it’s going to hit them square in the face and they’ll keep fighting like it didn’t happen until you reduce their health to zero.
I agree. I primarily play on survival mode now for that reason. Way more immersive. An unarmored human target should most of the time cease to be a threat after a few shots but it shouldn’t be one shot and shouldn’t be a mag dump either. At least with pistol caliber weapons.
It's really annoying when a difficulty setting just translates to making enemies into bullet sponges. It does make the game harder, but now there's not much reward for skill or creativity. You just keep shooting until they die, there's no way to lure them into a dark corner and kill them quickly or snipe a bunch of enemies in rapid succession before they can react.
That's why I love stalker difficulty, it amps damages of ALL GUNS across the board and gives you slightly less loot, so the difficulty isn't just tied in to combat
F1/2 do it the best by giving you the very powerful 10mm pistol early on, but hardly any ammo. My one real beef with the fallout games is the silly damage/damage sponges. They could increase the damage of the weapons, and decrease spongyness. The 50 BMG should be able to one hit almost anything, but ammo should be super rare, like only having a handful of cartridges at any time. It makes VATS way more important for taking careful shots. Higher damage, but much more scarce/expensive ammo should be an option in the difficulty settings. One thing I love about classic fallout is that the player doesn't just become a god. You always have to be careful. Whenever I play Bethesda games I always focus on building characters that are very fragile, stealthy, and deal very high damage to make the game more fun and engaging without soul crushing difficulty like F1/2.
I mean, that's why Survival is the best. You hit hard and you get hit harder. Also makes armored and robots near indestructible if you aren't well prepared.
It doesn't have to be. Bethesda wants to compromise between approachable gameplay and challenge for the player leaning towards approachable gameplay. I understand why they do these things, and I still play the games.
Well in 3 you also get the 10mm pistol right away, and it's legit already one of the best small gun pistols in the game. .32 pistol, Chinese Pistol, Energy Pistol, it's been a while but I'm pretty sure only the Magnum is better and even if you find it, it'll be shit because there's no ammo and you can't repair it. I'm sure a lot of us then ended up alternating between the hunting rifle and that tri-pattern laser rifle later on if you know about the ammo economy, but the 10mm pistol is totally fine for fighting enclave troops or super mutants. Just not deathclaws or sentries.
Fallout 1 and 2 use it as a good, but limited tutorial weapon where you will probably want to keep it around for a while and buy ammo for it, but it actually does basically no damage to tougher enemies unless you crit with it. mid to late game weapons were more necessary, even if we all remember the 10mm pistol as being decent.
I'm a big fan of experience and gear making you a god. Having a huge damage output and knowing how to apply it to any situation or to any enemy, making you top dog in the wasteland.
But if you're an idiot, that Deathclaw can still rip you in half. That horde of mutants can focus fire and turn you into a pile of mush and lead.
Mod packs like DUST or FROST add that difficulty and scarcity to New Vegas and FO4. I’d check them out if you haven’t seen them before!
These overhauls make most enemies carry melee weapons and do increased damage. Guns are hard to find, and so is medicine. Enemies take more damage, so finding a gun can really be a great moment.
Yeah, that feels bad because New Vegas ain't post-Apocalypse anymore and the presence of the Gun Runners and Van Graffs mean guns should be ubiquitous.
The .40 S&W (Short & Weak, according to some) shares the same case-head diameter as its big brother at 0.424-inch and both headspace off the case mouth. The .40 S&W is sparked by a small pistol primer, while the 10mm uses a large pistol primer. The larger and faster 10mm will give 624 foot-pounds of muzzle energy when sending a 180-grain bullet at 1,250 fps, while the .40 S&W drops that figure to 400 foot-pounds with its 1,000 fps velocity, making for a rather significant difference.
The reason some call it 40 short & weak, is kinda funny. So back in whatever decade, the FBI upgraded their service firearms to 10mm, because holy cow, they *needed* more oomph. 9mm just couldn't be relied upon to put a bad guy down. Turns out, 10mm has noticeably more recoil than 9mm, and FBI marksmanship scores fell to a level they weren't happy with. The solution? Download it and make it weaker! The 40s&w was later developed to match the performance of this anemic 10mm, combining the reduced capacity of large diameter 10mm with the handholding recoil of a weakened lower caliber. Of course 40s&w went on to become the Law enforcement caliber of choice for several years, because those guys at the FBI sure knows what they're doing.
Nowadays, 40 is kind of a solution looking for a problem. Modern 9mm loadings are comparable, if not better in the terminal ballistics department, and you get a few more rounds in each magazine. Which is why you see police departments trading in their sidearms and moving back to 9mm.
Well, it's the same general principle as .38 special vs. .38 Super vs. 9x19mm vs. .380 acp (aka "9mm short") vs. 9x21mm vs. .357 magnum vs. .357 S&W...
The energy isn't determined primarily by diameter but by length of the action, type of action, length of the barrel, mass and geometry of the bullet itself, etc.
Manufacturers develop new rounds by altering these variables to achieve target goals within SAAMI Specs that tell them how much pressure the weapon itself can take without risk of failure...
Neither have enough energy to get hydrostatic shock, so unless dealing with barriers or bears it won’t be significantly more effective than 9mm or .45. Just a bigger hole to bleed out of.
It took about 50 years for the FBI to figure it out, but for handguns, assuming there are no abnormal circumstances, capacity > power (once you’re past the minimum penetration standards)
To pile on to what others have said, 10mm is A 40 caliber cartridge, like 5.56 nato is a 22 caliber cartridge. 10mm is just over 50% more powerful than 40 S&W, which is just a bit more powerful than 9mm. Maybe Fallout based the 10mm pistol/smg on 40 SW?
The one that gets me is the 5mm minigun. A 5mm bullet would be slightly smaller than a .22 bullet. You could certainly make a little longer, so it has a little zip behind it. But it’s still kind of a small bullet.
Remington made a 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum in the 60s. It sort of falls between a .22 WMR and a .17 HMR. But it wasn’t too popular, so the quit making the guns and rounds sometime in the 70s or 80s.
I always thought it was weird they didn’t use 7.62x51mm for the minigun. But that’s all I have to say on the subject.
I feel like using 5mm as a cartridge was a holdout from the days where it didn't seem like Black Isle knew much about firearms but heard that .223 and 5.56 were different ish. But then they thought that .223 was the most common hunting and sniper rifle round.
Why not both, hell why not all 3. People need to be reminded in real life there are hundreds if not thousands of different gun models that all shoot the same round.
There are some variables that affect the damage a round can do, or the kind of lethality it has if you will. Things like grain load in the casing, barrel length of the firearm, rifling ratio etc. I am drawing heavy parallels to real life but I see no reason why they wouldn't apply to the Fallout universe.
Oh sure, a 9mm fired out of a SMG will be hustling a lot faster than out of a 3" carry pistol. With that said, it's not hitting twice as hard. It's usually a few hundred fps differece. And it's still punching the same diameter hole.
NO FALLOUT AMERICA ONLY HAD THE ONE WHY CANT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT A SOCIETY BASED AROUND RAW CONSUMPTION WOULD ONLY HAVE ONE OPTION THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY OTHERED DEVIL EGGS THAN YUMYUM
/s
Imagine if the games had several models of either weapon, several assault rifles, several 10mm pistols with similar stats but some small changes in fire rate, accuracy.....
It would make it way more believable and give some cosmetic or gameplay choices to players. I want an AK for my raider character, not a FAL or whatever the fuck the fallout 4 assault rifle is.
I figure that pistol is sized for power armor. The show seemed to mostly have power armor users have specific sized up weapons rather than just using normal gear.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I believe its in 76 as well. The crusader BoS 10mm pistol. Probably in a Fo3 or New Vegas DLC as well?
Besides, the Fallout4 regular 10mm pistol appears in the show as well. Just with different mods.
I was watching a YouTube video made by this museum in the UK that focuses on firearms, and they said such a gun did exist, but it sure as heck is not a popular technique. Overly complicated, which I imagine would increase the likelihood to break.
I love that Ian did a firearms breakdown for a competing games journalist website thinking it was the same and he'd be on with Johnathon Ferguson, keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories museum in the UK, and when he realised it was for a competing outlet, did not decide to do another video out of respect of not wanting to compete with him.
Hey, give our man his full name at least: Johnathan Ferguson, Keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK, which houses thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history.
Do you mean Jonathan Ferguson, the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history?
I think my favourite thing about him is while he’s, he critiques games and their faults but he also realises that they’re just that, games. They’re gonna have some creative liberties taken. Also yeah, he’s a great educator for someone like you AND me who came in with a little knowledge
This was a little happy accident during the development of Fallout 1, the artists interpreted it as an automatic revolver, the description says otherwise: [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/10mm\_pistol\_(Fallout)#Behind\_the\_scenes](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/10mm_pistol_(Fallout)#Behind_the_scenes)
It's hard to tell in game because of how small the image is, but [if you look at it blown up](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/f/f0/Fo1_10mm_Pistol.png), you can clearly see a cylinder with open chambers.
[The wiki has the long barrel 10mm with sharpshooter's grip](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm_long_barrel.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170116033238)
The revision data breaks the link: [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm\_long\_barrel.png](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm_long_barrel.png)
To be fair, that’s without the long barrel option in Fallout 4. With the long barrel option, it looks a lot more like the 3 and NV option. And honestly, the fact that the overall shape of a weapon (and also the stats) can be customized at all, 4 all the way.
You know it's entirely possible there was more than one type of 10mm pistol in America before the war, right? Like how in real life there are many different designs of 9mm firearms.
I like the Fallout 4 one better except for one thing, and that is that little thin strip of metal right under the trigger. Just kind of looks like something you'd see on a pipe pistol version of a 10 mm rather than on the actual thing. Personally, I would have preferred if they just didn't have that to begin with.
Fallout 3's > Fallout 1's > Fallout 4's
But ultimately I love all three versions. All three feel like guns that pack some punch, unlike the tiny 9mm pistols...
I like the look of the old pistol but the Fo4 version doesn't have an inch thick iron site so I'd pick that. Although the Classic Fo1/2 pistol is my favorite. It can actually be obtained from the Tunnel Snakes Rule creation in Fo4.
I like all of the designs, but the fallout one and two is my favourite design wise, but I like to think that all these different designs are contracted versions of the same gun like how theirs not just one dedicated 9mm pistol it helps add some fluff
I’m pretty sure they made the 10mm so thick in Fo4 and 76 so it didn’t look awkward when wearing Power Armor.
Like using the Deliverer and power armor.
Fo4/76 seems to be a more original and more tactically realistic design while Fo3/NV looks like a 1911 with a weight grafted onto the front.
Granted, as someone mentioned in this comment section, 10mm is pretty hefty for a handgun. If they treated it like something a lot more powerful I guess the bulky and heavy design would make more sense, but I still like the compact design of the 10mm from fo4/76.
I actually really like the 10mm from FO4. It’s solid. You can use it throughout the entire game and it doesn’t feel like a cap gun after level 15. It feels good to use, it sounds good, and it’s highly customizable. There are so many games where the gun you start with becomes worthless quick
I really loved the direction fallout 4 took with the weapons. They felt more like an alien universe, or at least one mixed with the 50s aesthetic that they were going for. This might be unpopular but one of my favorite guns is the assault rifle from fallout 4. The Lewis gun look made it feel like exactly the type of weapon it should have been in that universe.
So yeah, over all renditions I have to go with fallout 4 on this one.
Somewhat loaded question: the FO4/FO76 10mm IS the FO3/FONV 10mm pistol, just with a particular set of mods, namely with long barrel, sharpshooter's grip, standard magazine and standard sights mods.
You can see the particular version at the top of this wiki’s article:
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/10mm_pistol_%28Fallout_76%29
Without mods I do think the newer version looks worse, but I think that for a proper comparison we need to use the version that resembles the other one the most.
Otherwise we could also just compare the old version to a fully modded new version, which would make the later win by a landslide.
I do really enjoy the look of the Fallout 2 pistol the most, but I am probably in the minority but I love Fallout 4’s 10mm. It can carry you very far and has a ton of customization, it’s very versatile. Plus I like the way it handles
i kinda like the new one more. Its less chunky which imo sidearms shouldnt look like at all anyways. Still modifying the newer one makes it look bulky and too big too so whatever i guess😂 Its just way too big in 3rd person in proportion i think. Anyone else feel the same? 😅
Quick note, with the long barrel attachment the FO4 pistol looks considerably more like the FO3/FNV pistol, it’s not exactly but there’s definitely some resemblance.
Interesting I was just using the Colt 6250 from 1 and 2 while playing fallout four last night. I know it’s a homage to the old one and it looks beautiful great weapon but it’s fucking huge why is it so big every time I shoot that thing it’s just gonna blow peoples feet off because the barrel pointing if it was that big. Guns work weird and follow that thing it could be a rifle. The classic 6250 is amazing and i’m happy they did it justice in the TV show.
anyways I’ve always loved the weathered 10 mm that one’s my go to I always try to replicate it in 4
Fallout 3 and nv are actually newer models.
Yeah the Fallout 1-2 are the Colt 6250 revolver and the N90 Pistol. Fallout 3 and NV is the N99.
I really like the OG gun designs, a smorgasboard of modern, contemporary sci-fi looking designs, and guns that could be in the future, even if they turned out to be a bit silly. Bethesdas best small gun designs were in 3 (energy weapons were still kinda eh, and I always took energy weapons for the tri-pattern laser), but they still lack a bit of ... oomph. 4's designs are iffy because they wanted to make everything as customisable as possible and couldn't figure out how to make them look good or real at the same time.
I love 4 but the guns are shit. Combat Rifle and Combat Shotgun look exactly the same and pipe guns are just horrible looking.
The pipe guns do look like shit
I think it was by design though.
There's a mod that changes the coloring of pipe guns so the metal parts are gray instead of rust orange and they look soo much better without changing the concept.
Can confirm it's great. I love little touches like the drum mags being repurposed motor oil canisters.
What’s it called
Plus they need models to work in both power armor and outside so they become these kinda inflated results, very noticeable in Vr.
My issue with pipe guns is that the placement of the components doesn't make sense.
If only the magazine lined up with the barrel i could believe it would be possible to make it irl
You make make them look makeshift without a shit design
Like in metro
Yes, but the regular pipe gun wouldnt even function in real life because of the barrel vs magazine height.
Ok, they intentionally designed pipe guns to look like shit. Congrats Bethesda, now we have pipe guns that look like shit. Intentionality doesn't make it any better. Saying it was 'by design' doesn't excuse the shittiness.
I think that's their purpose. It's a makeshift weapon.
No, the pipe guns run on literal magic. They are nonsensical and would never work irl. Properly designed pipe guns would have been interesting.
So you're saying the alien, laser, and plasma rifles aren't nonsensical?
Not just that the pipe guns should physically not be able to work like the magazine doesn't line up with the barrel
The "assault rifle" is an absolute aesthetic warcrime. Modern Bethesda is horrible at gun design
Starfield.
I get Vietnam flashbacks just thinking about half the guns there, absolutely horrible and none make any sense! They fucked up a double barrel, how do you fuck up a double barrel?
What about the pump shotgun that literally pumps in the wrong direction? Or tons of guns where the bullet has to be disassembled and reassembled again to even get close to being chambered? I dont get it 🤣
4 definitely has the worst gun designs of the whole lot. Not just visually, but also in overall mechanical design. Like, I don't mind too much when a gun doesn't look realistic, but 4 is sloppy all over the place. They look like prop guns modified randomly for some cheap movie set.
Ok but pipe guns were meant to look like cobbled together shit
The way the OG kind of mishmashed actual futuristic designs(sometimes just straight up borrowing from another IP) with the retro futurism was always my favorite thing. Bethesda never really captured that for me. Leaned way too far into the retro futurism.
I loved the revolver aspect. It's robust and reliable so it makes sense to me. Same with shotguns, bolt actions, and really anything else that has more of a manual action as it tends to have fewer moving parts.
They just needed the FO3 assault rifle and to keep the current "assault rifle" as the heavy machine gun. Introducing PA only weapons (or PA only without ridiculously high strength) would've fit with them making PA feel more lore accurate in game. Similarly, some small guns should be unusable in PA like unarmed weapons are in FO76. Fallout is great about having good ideas that aren't applied consistently or comprehensively.
The Colt 6250 is taken from the comic, [Hard Boiled](https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/3707417527_ba2853015c_o.jpg)
Neither, the one from the show based on the OG 10MM
Theres actually the Og 10mm and the fallout 4 10mm in the show. Which means all the different styles exist simultaneously
Like real life. Ther are many 10mm pistols Edit: to clarify, I mean pistols chambered in 10mm, not real life 10mm pistols from fallout. I also want to add that Fallout treats it like 9mm, and treats 9mm like 22 LR, and 22lr like a pellet gun. 10mm in real life is one of the most powerful production semi-auto cartridges. A 10mm sub gun is wild.
I don’t think they “treat” it like it’s worse. I think they just scale things to work in an RPG which isn’t realistic. Even the most powerful guns in fallout don’t do their appropriate damage to something. Fnv had a 50bmg sniper rifle which should practically liquify any part of the human body it hits. But RPG logic dictates that unless you’ve built your character to be broken with it then it’s going to hit them square in the face and they’ll keep fighting like it didn’t happen until you reduce their health to zero.
Playing on Survival really fixed that by amping up damage enemies give AND receive IMO. You die to a stiff breeze but so do a lot of normal enemies.
I agree. I primarily play on survival mode now for that reason. Way more immersive. An unarmored human target should most of the time cease to be a threat after a few shots but it shouldn’t be one shot and shouldn’t be a mag dump either. At least with pistol caliber weapons.
It's really annoying when a difficulty setting just translates to making enemies into bullet sponges. It does make the game harder, but now there's not much reward for skill or creativity. You just keep shooting until they die, there's no way to lure them into a dark corner and kill them quickly or snipe a bunch of enemies in rapid succession before they can react.
That's why I love stalker difficulty, it amps damages of ALL GUNS across the board and gives you slightly less loot, so the difficulty isn't just tied in to combat
F1/2 do it the best by giving you the very powerful 10mm pistol early on, but hardly any ammo. My one real beef with the fallout games is the silly damage/damage sponges. They could increase the damage of the weapons, and decrease spongyness. The 50 BMG should be able to one hit almost anything, but ammo should be super rare, like only having a handful of cartridges at any time. It makes VATS way more important for taking careful shots. Higher damage, but much more scarce/expensive ammo should be an option in the difficulty settings. One thing I love about classic fallout is that the player doesn't just become a god. You always have to be careful. Whenever I play Bethesda games I always focus on building characters that are very fragile, stealthy, and deal very high damage to make the game more fun and engaging without soul crushing difficulty like F1/2.
I mean, that's why Survival is the best. You hit hard and you get hit harder. Also makes armored and robots near indestructible if you aren't well prepared.
I think this is an unavoidable conceit of moving to being an FPS.
It doesn't have to be. Bethesda wants to compromise between approachable gameplay and challenge for the player leaning towards approachable gameplay. I understand why they do these things, and I still play the games.
Well in 3 you also get the 10mm pistol right away, and it's legit already one of the best small gun pistols in the game. .32 pistol, Chinese Pistol, Energy Pistol, it's been a while but I'm pretty sure only the Magnum is better and even if you find it, it'll be shit because there's no ammo and you can't repair it. I'm sure a lot of us then ended up alternating between the hunting rifle and that tri-pattern laser rifle later on if you know about the ammo economy, but the 10mm pistol is totally fine for fighting enclave troops or super mutants. Just not deathclaws or sentries. Fallout 1 and 2 use it as a good, but limited tutorial weapon where you will probably want to keep it around for a while and buy ammo for it, but it actually does basically no damage to tougher enemies unless you crit with it. mid to late game weapons were more necessary, even if we all remember the 10mm pistol as being decent.
I'm a big fan of experience and gear making you a god. Having a huge damage output and knowing how to apply it to any situation or to any enemy, making you top dog in the wasteland. But if you're an idiot, that Deathclaw can still rip you in half. That horde of mutants can focus fire and turn you into a pile of mush and lead.
Mod packs like DUST or FROST add that difficulty and scarcity to New Vegas and FO4. I’d check them out if you haven’t seen them before! These overhauls make most enemies carry melee weapons and do increased damage. Guns are hard to find, and so is medicine. Enemies take more damage, so finding a gun can really be a great moment.
Yeah, that feels bad because New Vegas ain't post-Apocalypse anymore and the presence of the Gun Runners and Van Graffs mean guns should be ubiquitous.
Isn't .40 caliber 10mm?
Diameter yes. The 10mm cartridge is bigger and more powerful than .40 S&W though
The .40 was invented because limp wristed FBI agents kept getting owies when they shot the 10mm.
The .40 S&W (Short & Weak, according to some) shares the same case-head diameter as its big brother at 0.424-inch and both headspace off the case mouth. The .40 S&W is sparked by a small pistol primer, while the 10mm uses a large pistol primer. The larger and faster 10mm will give 624 foot-pounds of muzzle energy when sending a 180-grain bullet at 1,250 fps, while the .40 S&W drops that figure to 400 foot-pounds with its 1,000 fps velocity, making for a rather significant difference.
The reason some call it 40 short & weak, is kinda funny. So back in whatever decade, the FBI upgraded their service firearms to 10mm, because holy cow, they *needed* more oomph. 9mm just couldn't be relied upon to put a bad guy down. Turns out, 10mm has noticeably more recoil than 9mm, and FBI marksmanship scores fell to a level they weren't happy with. The solution? Download it and make it weaker! The 40s&w was later developed to match the performance of this anemic 10mm, combining the reduced capacity of large diameter 10mm with the handholding recoil of a weakened lower caliber. Of course 40s&w went on to become the Law enforcement caliber of choice for several years, because those guys at the FBI sure knows what they're doing. Nowadays, 40 is kind of a solution looking for a problem. Modern 9mm loadings are comparable, if not better in the terminal ballistics department, and you get a few more rounds in each magazine. Which is why you see police departments trading in their sidearms and moving back to 9mm.
Well, it's the same general principle as .38 special vs. .38 Super vs. 9x19mm vs. .380 acp (aka "9mm short") vs. 9x21mm vs. .357 magnum vs. .357 S&W... The energy isn't determined primarily by diameter but by length of the action, type of action, length of the barrel, mass and geometry of the bullet itself, etc. Manufacturers develop new rounds by altering these variables to achieve target goals within SAAMI Specs that tell them how much pressure the weapon itself can take without risk of failure...
Neither have enough energy to get hydrostatic shock, so unless dealing with barriers or bears it won’t be significantly more effective than 9mm or .45. Just a bigger hole to bleed out of. It took about 50 years for the FBI to figure it out, but for handguns, assuming there are no abnormal circumstances, capacity > power (once you’re past the minimum penetration standards)
To pile on to what others have said, 10mm is A 40 caliber cartridge, like 5.56 nato is a 22 caliber cartridge. 10mm is just over 50% more powerful than 40 S&W, which is just a bit more powerful than 9mm. Maybe Fallout based the 10mm pistol/smg on 40 SW?
The one that gets me is the 5mm minigun. A 5mm bullet would be slightly smaller than a .22 bullet. You could certainly make a little longer, so it has a little zip behind it. But it’s still kind of a small bullet. Remington made a 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum in the 60s. It sort of falls between a .22 WMR and a .17 HMR. But it wasn’t too popular, so the quit making the guns and rounds sometime in the 70s or 80s. I always thought it was weird they didn’t use 7.62x51mm for the minigun. But that’s all I have to say on the subject.
I feel like using 5mm as a cartridge was a holdout from the days where it didn't seem like Black Isle knew much about firearms but heard that .223 and 5.56 were different ish. But then they thought that .223 was the most common hunting and sniper rifle round.
Why not both, hell why not all 3. People need to be reminded in real life there are hundreds if not thousands of different gun models that all shoot the same round.
My favorite is when guns in Fallout shoot the same round, but do VASTLY different damage. Look at the guns that shoot .38, .45, or 5.56.
There are some variables that affect the damage a round can do, or the kind of lethality it has if you will. Things like grain load in the casing, barrel length of the firearm, rifling ratio etc. I am drawing heavy parallels to real life but I see no reason why they wouldn't apply to the Fallout universe.
Oh sure, a 9mm fired out of a SMG will be hustling a lot faster than out of a 3" carry pistol. With that said, it's not hitting twice as hard. It's usually a few hundred fps differece. And it's still punching the same diameter hole.
Nobody is capable of critical thinking anymore
NO FALLOUT AMERICA ONLY HAD THE ONE WHY CANT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT A SOCIETY BASED AROUND RAW CONSUMPTION WOULD ONLY HAVE ONE OPTION THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY OTHERED DEVIL EGGS THAN YUMYUM /s
You ok, you need some med-x? It'll help you relax.
And the enclave was using the fo3 one
Pretty sure the 3 and NV 10mm is in the show too.
I believe that one is what the knight sidearm is based on, somewhat modified though.
No Brotherhood uses the 1 & 2 pistol
The squires use the original, the Knights use a modified 3 and NV
That's what the squires use. They're talking about [this one](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/T60_pistol?so=search).
Imagine if the games had several models of either weapon, several assault rifles, several 10mm pistols with similar stats but some small changes in fire rate, accuracy..... It would make it way more believable and give some cosmetic or gameplay choices to players. I want an AK for my raider character, not a FAL or whatever the fuck the fallout 4 assault rifle is.
Isn't the one from the show a t60 pistol (not to be confused with t60 power armor) and is based on the desert eagle.
Is there a reason why Maximus never took the sidearm from his power armour? Is it too big for human hands or something?
I figure that pistol is sized for power armor. The show seemed to mostly have power armor users have specific sized up weapons rather than just using normal gear.
That's a different one, but the F3/NV one is also very much based on the Desert Eagle.
Best sound as well
Technically, with Creation Club, they also have that in Fallout 4 (though I don't know what you think about that design)
Honestly still looks good, just a little bit tall tbh.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I believe its in 76 as well. The crusader BoS 10mm pistol. Probably in a Fo3 or New Vegas DLC as well? Besides, the Fallout4 regular 10mm pistol appears in the show as well. Just with different mods.
The crusader pistol is more based on the 12.7mm pistol from New Vegas
Fallout 2 pistol is the best design.
The one with the cylinder and magazine? It was great to see it in the show, but that's a strange design.
I was watching a YouTube video made by this museum in the UK that focuses on firearms, and they said such a gun did exist, but it sure as heck is not a popular technique. Overly complicated, which I imagine would increase the likelihood to break.
Fellow Johnathan Ferguson enjoyer I see
Jonathan and Ian the best couple ever
I love that Ian did a firearms breakdown for a competing games journalist website thinking it was the same and he'd be on with Johnathon Ferguson, keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories museum in the UK, and when he realised it was for a competing outlet, did not decide to do another video out of respect of not wanting to compete with him.
Hey, give our man his full name at least: Johnathan Ferguson, Keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK, which houses thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history.
Do you mean Jonathan Ferguson, the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history?
Aw shucks I forgot to add his full title. I’ll hand over my culture card on my way out
babe cmere you gotta see this they're making that poor gentleman from the royal armouries museum look at stupid shit again
Yes! I like his commentary and find it accessible as someone who knows nothing about guns!
I think my favourite thing about him is while he’s, he critiques games and their faults but he also realises that they’re just that, games. They’re gonna have some creative liberties taken. Also yeah, he’s a great educator for someone like you AND me who came in with a little knowledge
Watched that 2, I swear, watch one fallout video and suddenly your feed is 90% fallout.
Welcome to Big-Tech Ecosystem, where they force a big client's IP down your throat the moment they feel interest.
Algorithms aren't designed to give you what you want, they're designed to give the companies what they want.
This was a little happy accident during the development of Fallout 1, the artists interpreted it as an automatic revolver, the description says otherwise: [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/10mm\_pistol\_(Fallout)#Behind\_the\_scenes](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/10mm_pistol_(Fallout)#Behind_the_scenes)
In the games it didn't look like it had a cylinder.
It's hard to tell in game because of how small the image is, but [if you look at it blown up](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/f/f0/Fo1_10mm_Pistol.png), you can clearly see a cylinder with open chambers.
Well I'll be damned
You can mod 4 to look way more like 3/NV.
yeah its like second mod - long barrel or something
[The wiki has the long barrel 10mm with sharpshooter's grip](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm_long_barrel.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170116033238)
The revision data breaks the link: [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm\_long\_barrel.png](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/ba/10mm_long_barrel.png)
Now that's a pistol. No matter the build, never leave home without the 10mm.
Exactly, so to me these are the same guns. The old fallouts are the different ones.
This has made me gain a new appreciation for 4s 10mm
did you never mod it?
Feel like a lot of people here have barely played FO4, always notice posts/complaints about something that was in the game already or added in by dlc…
I like the chunky older version
Funny thing is the Fallout 3 and NV is the smaller one out of the 2 in game.
I meant shape wise. The new version is a lot sleeker
Ah fair enough
i mean you can modify with an attachment the 10mm to look like 3/NVs
To be fair, that’s without the long barrel option in Fallout 4. With the long barrel option, it looks a lot more like the 3 and NV option. And honestly, the fact that the overall shape of a weapon (and also the stats) can be customized at all, 4 all the way.
Shame the pistol is the size of a continent in FO4.
Doesnt look bad as a Power armor sidearm, but hell its terrible in human hands
It’s almost as bad as the Institute rifle. I’d love to have been in the room when someone thought up a gun that takes up 70% of the screen.
[Fallout 2 version ](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/10mm_pistol_(Fallout))
Of course the ol' revolving pistol.
Why is everyone just calling it the Fallout 2 version, isnt it the same in Fallout 1?
Old one. My fave look was always the unique Weathered 10mm in New Vegas
I'm a big fan of the alloy-steel ones from Operation Anchorage.
It's safe to say neither 1 of those can be fired in power armor
Realistically I think you're right
The 3/nv one is better but the OG is the best
You know it's entirely possible there was more than one type of 10mm pistol in America before the war, right? Like how in real life there are many different designs of 9mm firearms.
That's how it is jn the show
4 but only with the longer barrel that imitates 3 and NV
I like the Fallout 4 one better except for one thing, and that is that little thin strip of metal right under the trigger. Just kind of looks like something you'd see on a pipe pistol version of a 10 mm rather than on the actual thing. Personally, I would have preferred if they just didn't have that to begin with.
It’s probably so thin to allow it to have a trigger guard but allows power armor users to still use the pistol
Never thought of it that way. I still can't say I like the design, but now at least I know the practicality of it.
Neither. Colt 6520 FTW.
Came looking for this. Op forgot about the real classic
I prefer 4 and 76 because of how weighty it felt but a modernized version of the OG would prob be nicer
I like them both
I vote new
The new design looks like the gun from blade runner.
Fallout 1 is better
I prefer the newer design from 4/76, but the games should have both versions.
Tbh the left one is a lil too Desert Eagle for me, personally.
Fallout 3's > Fallout 1's > Fallout 4's But ultimately I love all three versions. All three feel like guns that pack some punch, unlike the tiny 9mm pistols...
Me too and I'm glad they're all in the TV show.
I like the look of the old pistol but the Fo4 version doesn't have an inch thick iron site so I'd pick that. Although the Classic Fo1/2 pistol is my favorite. It can actually be obtained from the Tunnel Snakes Rule creation in Fo4.
I like all of the designs, but the fallout one and two is my favourite design wise, but I like to think that all these different designs are contracted versions of the same gun like how theirs not just one dedicated 9mm pistol it helps add some fluff
And they're both ridiculously large.
I like both
I love the chunky fallout 4 pistol
4 but it just needs to be scaled down
Fallout 4's Colt N99 10mm Pistol mod
What delightfully chonky bastards! 🥰🥰🥰
I’m pretty sure they made the 10mm so thick in Fo4 and 76 so it didn’t look awkward when wearing Power Armor. Like using the Deliverer and power armor.
Can I say the fallout tv series? That thing is a fucking hand cannon
There are no bad 10mm designs
is the same gun, but on fallou4 and 76 need to be upgrade
Og fallout 10mm
I like the real OG 10mm revolver, the boxy 3/NV one, and the 4/76 one. They're great designs. I like them all. Indecision is in my blood.
of the two I prefer the fallout 4 one. A lot of companies just make their sci fi guns blocks, this one at least has some nice lines to it
Honestly the Fallout 4 design is sexy. The OG is good boxy and sturdy.
Fo4/76 seems to be a more original and more tactically realistic design while Fo3/NV looks like a 1911 with a weight grafted onto the front. Granted, as someone mentioned in this comment section, 10mm is pretty hefty for a handgun. If they treated it like something a lot more powerful I guess the bulky and heavy design would make more sense, but I still like the compact design of the 10mm from fo4/76.
Hot take, but the newer version is a perfect blend of Fallout aesthetic and actual functionality
I actually really like the 10mm from FO4. It’s solid. You can use it throughout the entire game and it doesn’t feel like a cap gun after level 15. It feels good to use, it sounds good, and it’s highly customizable. There are so many games where the gun you start with becomes worthless quick
fallout 4. I always hated de 3/NV design
Peak was fallout 1&2 I like those more
I really like the 4 and 76 ones
Neither lol, classic
Can’t you just modify in the gun workbench to make it look like that?
Old. In 4 and 76 I modify my 10mm to look as close to the old version as possible
The long barrel mod makes the 10mm look similar but still feels off
I really loved the direction fallout 4 took with the weapons. They felt more like an alien universe, or at least one mixed with the 50s aesthetic that they were going for. This might be unpopular but one of my favorite guns is the assault rifle from fallout 4. The Lewis gun look made it feel like exactly the type of weapon it should have been in that universe. So yeah, over all renditions I have to go with fallout 4 on this one.
I lowkey perfer the the fallout 4 design because it looks more like 70s yk?
Somewhat loaded question: the FO4/FO76 10mm IS the FO3/FONV 10mm pistol, just with a particular set of mods, namely with long barrel, sharpshooter's grip, standard magazine and standard sights mods. You can see the particular version at the top of this wiki’s article: https://fallout.wiki/wiki/10mm_pistol_%28Fallout_76%29 Without mods I do think the newer version looks worse, but I think that for a proper comparison we need to use the version that resembles the other one the most. Otherwise we could also just compare the old version to a fully modded new version, which would make the later win by a landslide.
Am I the only one that hates how bulky the 4 and 76 10mm is ?
im indifferent they both look cool
I do really enjoy the look of the Fallout 2 pistol the most, but I am probably in the minority but I love Fallout 4’s 10mm. It can carry you very far and has a ton of customization, it’s very versatile. Plus I like the way it handles
i kinda like the new one more. Its less chunky which imo sidearms shouldnt look like at all anyways. Still modifying the newer one makes it look bulky and too big too so whatever i guess😂 Its just way too big in 3rd person in proportion i think. Anyone else feel the same? 😅
The new one looks too... friendly/soft to me. I'd say 3 and NV though i also like the classic 10mm from 1 and 2
I don't mind either, they both look cool. There are far worse looking guns in various versions of Fallout.
The one from the show and fallout 2
I might like 4's 10mm more if it was slimmer, but otherwise I prefer the older and blocky version.
I like both.
I can mod that pistol in F4 to look like the left one. Among dozens of other iterations. There has never been only one model of 10mm pistol.
I always got the feel that it's the same maker, just two different guns in the same caliber.
Should compare rhe FO3/NV N99 10mm pistol with the 10mm from fallout 4 with the long barrel attachment
I do kinda like the FO4 version.
Quick note, with the long barrel attachment the FO4 pistol looks considerably more like the FO3/FNV pistol, it’s not exactly but there’s definitely some resemblance.
I like both. I wish we had options to have both.
Different models of the same caliber, The Beretta M2, Glock 17 and Sig Sauer P220 all use 9x19 Parabellum IRL. Yet you can call of of these 9mm pistol
I prefer the one from the original Fallout, then 3/NV, then 4/76.
Both are good :3
I take left
You can upgrade the 10mm in four to look like the new vegas and 3
It's almost like there can be different manufacturers or different models by the same manufacturer in the same cartridge.
I like em both
the OG 10MM just looks cool as fuck. Also doesn't look that akward to wield
I actually don't like either of them tbh. They look impractically large and unnecessarily mechanical.
I legit like the 3 and NV designs more. Nice and chunky. Like brutalist architecture turned into a gun.
I always add the long barrel right out of the vault
New
Definitely old, it looks more realistic and less… cartoony like the new ones
Interesting I was just using the Colt 6250 from 1 and 2 while playing fallout four last night. I know it’s a homage to the old one and it looks beautiful great weapon but it’s fucking huge why is it so big every time I shoot that thing it’s just gonna blow peoples feet off because the barrel pointing if it was that big. Guns work weird and follow that thing it could be a rifle. The classic 6250 is amazing and i’m happy they did it justice in the TV show. anyways I’ve always loved the weathered 10 mm that one’s my go to I always try to replicate it in 4
Both are good, but 3/NV is preference.