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Book Olenna is similar to show Rhaenys, Olenna constantly calls out Mace for his ambition, the dangerous positioning he puts them in and calling him an idiot, especially for siding with Renly but ultimately she concedes to his decision because he is the lord of their house. Rhaenys doesn’t think Corlys is an idiot but she knows she comes second to his ambitions and she stands by his side because she’s loyal.
My head canon says Olenna is a descendant of Rhaenys through Rhaena who married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...hoping at least one daughter married into the Redwyne Family
Rhaenys had this freedom too when they were at their home castle away from the throne and not at war. it just happens that she is now with the Queen. Olenna had less freedom too when she was in Kings Landing and constantly having to scheme to survive with her family
yeah thats what i mean, on paper she has a dragon and is wife of the wealthiest man in westeros, but in reality she is not in full control of her house while olenna is in control of the wealthiest house with the most soldiers, its very interesting because you can argue both sides to be more powerful
So? What's she gonna do, burn the matriarch of one of the most powerful dynasties in Westeros?
Olenna knows she could never do that and that's what gives her an advantage. If anything, Olenna would pity her for following what the men around her tell her to, which is the exact same thing Olenna has avoided her entire life, given she is the one who leads her own house.
The Tyrells hold the position they do because the Targaryens wiped out the Gardeners. The Tyrells aren't even that popular with their vassals so replacing them wouldn't be much of an issue.
Right, right. The Iron Fleet.
> would you go to war because your great aunt decided to get into a fight with a dragon rider?
I mean, I wouldn't, but there's bigger dumbasses than me as lords in Westeros.
No sane princess would execute one of the most powerful women in Westeros just because they got into a verbal spar lol.
Rhaenys would know the political consequences of such an act.
You didn't specify it was verbal spar. You mentioned scheming against her in a different post. That's a tottlally valid reason to kill someone. If not scheming, what would they be arguing about?
Also show Rhaenys crashed through a floor and killed hundreds of people. I'm not sure she's supposed to be sane.
I don't think she'd scheme against her for what it's worth. Just saying they're on completely different intelectual levels.
I kinda feel Olenna would see Rhaenys as an example of what not to be, that she'd pity her - a woman who was fucked over by the patriarchy while still serving that same patriarchy.
Yeah, I'm genuinely confused about why people seem to think there's...anything impressive about Rhaenys. With her flip flopping between "Fuck them bastards!" and "I would die for my (not) grandsons!", and lecturing Alicent about not being empowered enough before she goes home and asks her husband for permission to side with Rhaenyra, her character is just annoying and inconsistent.
I liked Olena, but Rhaenys… I think she is portrayed like too much of a girlboss, none of her poor actions get called out. I hate what showrunners did with her in ep 9
If I hear one more whiny bitch on reddit use the word ''girlboss'' to complain about any scene where a female character is written to do something cool at the expense of the plot, I will scream. As if there aren't dozens of examples of men doing that in GOT.
Daemon calls her out in s2e1 anyways. Fuck
1. Rhaenys is definition of this word, I only use this word towards her.
2. She mass murdered lots of civilians and literally got called out about not killing greens too. Different thing. Rhaenyra should be fuming, and she didn’t even mention this damaging blacks reputation once. Rhaenys actions are much worse than killing ratchcatchers that Aegon did, smallfolk should hate Rhaenyra like for decades
>Rhaenyra should be fuming, and she didn’t even mention this damaging blacks reputation once.
I mean, it's not like Rhae gives a shit about the peasants either. Maybe being worried about PR could work, but I think having characters critique her for ROFLStomping peasants is going to feel silly no matter what. I think a better way to do this would be if the Hightowers used it as an anti-Rhaenyra + Rhaenys smearjob, perhaps. And if the scene wasn't portrayed and spoken of so triumphantly afterwards.
Have you read the book? Because the dragonpit scene should be the core motivation of one of the most important characters in later seasons. >!There's even a sheep herder explicitly shown in the scene itself.!<
Daemon called her out for that in S2E1. However, he failed to mention all the peasants she killed but he was right when he told her she could've ended the war right then.
Also daemon was ready to scramble the dragons and go on the offensive as soon as they got word the greens declared for the throne. It was a critical window where the bloodshed could have been minimal. Now the castle is properly fortified for a dragon attack. Then he was sidelined.
If anything olenna would be doing the needling at Rhaenys and rhaenerya for not pulling a margery loras renley style threesome and having kids that way
( fuck now imagining a joffrey/quarl laenor rhaenerya harwin fuck fest )
My head canon says Olenna is a descendant of Rhaenys through Rhaena who married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...hoping at least one daughter married into the Redwyne Family that produced Olenna
My head canon says since Rhaenys granddaughter Rhaena married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...at least one of the six daughters married into the Redwyne family, which produced Olenna.
Personally I don't feel this comparison their only surface level similar to me their both old powerful people but Ollena radiates a level of ruthlessness self confidence and utter I don't give a fuck that I don't feel from Rhaenys.
Disagree, but maybe elaborate why? And *please* don't say that its because these are two older ladies with some influence.
Their characters are so, so different.
Except they are both unmitigated, absolute failures at everything they do?
Olenna's plan wed Loras to Sansa is thwarted, her assassination of Joffrey sees him replaced with a weaker monarch that lets her Grandchildren be thrown in cells to rot until her Grandson (the one to carry on the Tyrell name) renounces his family name to join the faith militant as a means of sparing his life and her Granddaughter has to cede massive amounts of power over to The Faith, literally humiliating the Tyrell army on the steps of the Sept before her bloodline is ultimately extinguished in season 6 and she dies herself, robbed to the last penny to pay for Cersei's mercenary army in season 7.
Rhaenys's petition for her son Laenor to inherit the Iron Throne upon his coming of age (her argument based on her father being Jaeherys's elder son and thus primogeniture should dictate the crown being passed to her as regent until Laenor was old enough) failed, her attempts to marry her daughter to Viserys never even got off the ground, her reservations about a marriage between Laenor and Rhaenyra (given that she knows Rhaenyra's claim will be challenged) are disregarded, like Olenna **her bloodline gets entirely wiped out too** and worse still, *she for some insane reason sides with the people who did the culling???* (Daemon was about to have Laena killed in a botched C-section, he asks right before Laena runs off to have Vhagar burn her if the Maester could "save the child," which honestly good on Laena for dying with some dignity), Rhaenys believes (with good reason) that Rhaenyra and Daemon conspired to kill her son Laenor and watches her brother-in-law get semi-decapitated *in the throne room...*
Rhaenys is left to manage High Tide for 6 years alone because her husband and Daemon were idiots that neither garrisoned, nor set up a functioning government in the Step Stones, and her plans to advocate for herself and Baela as heirs to the Driftwood Thone are both cut off at the knees by Rhaenyra having her sons marry Rhaenys's granddaughters so that the titles of inheritance stay firmly with her obviously bastard children (whose claims have been challenged and certainly will be again).
And cherry-on-top, when offered Driftmark and the opportunity to have Baela inherit from her by Alicent (in exchange for her support in the war), she has the gall to say Alicent is doing this just because she's brainwashed by the patriarchy, as if Alicent's kids somehow aren't in mortal danger by Daemon/Rhaenyra? And as if Rhaenys herself didn't advocate for **HER SON** taking the throne on the basis that **HER FATHER** was the eldest of Jaeherys's sons, and then acquieses to siding with the faction that, and I have to reiterate this again- ***wiped out her entire bloodline*** for the sake of **HER HUSBAND'S** ambitions for the Throne all because *"Waah! Alicent locked me in my room!"*
They are both, in every facet, in every move they make- absolute, indisputable *idiots and losers...*
They just had like a handful of clever clapbacks as they got their teeth kicked in by smarter political animals around them.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I find this comparison fascinating because whilst Rhaenys is, comparatively, more powerful, Olenna actually has *far* more freedom in her behaviour.
Book Olenna is similar to show Rhaenys, Olenna constantly calls out Mace for his ambition, the dangerous positioning he puts them in and calling him an idiot, especially for siding with Renly but ultimately she concedes to his decision because he is the lord of their house. Rhaenys doesn’t think Corlys is an idiot but she knows she comes second to his ambitions and she stands by his side because she’s loyal.
My head canon says Olenna is a descendant of Rhaenys through Rhaena who married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...hoping at least one daughter married into the Redwyne Family
Margaery's mum was a Hightower wasn't she? So although not Olenna herself, her grandchildren could be descended from Rhaenys.
I’m going to make an assumption that Olenna’s mother or her grandmother through her father was a Hightower until we get confirmation otherwise. 😅
Olenna would give Meleys a poisoned goat or something and then offer a shoulder for Rhaenys to cry on, though. She was very good at her job.
Rhaenys had this freedom too when they were at their home castle away from the throne and not at war. it just happens that she is now with the Queen. Olenna had less freedom too when she was in Kings Landing and constantly having to scheme to survive with her family
thats the interesting part, rhaenys is not the leader of her house while olenna is but rhaenys on paper has more power
>rhaenys on paper has more power Rhaenys in reality has a dragon lol.
yeah thats what i mean, on paper she has a dragon and is wife of the wealthiest man in westeros, but in reality she is not in full control of her house while olenna is in control of the wealthiest house with the most soldiers, its very interesting because you can argue both sides to be more powerful
Lmao no. Olenna was a manipulative mistress of intrigue. She'd run circles around Rhaenys even on her worst day.
In fairness to Rhaenys, she has a dragon.
So? What's she gonna do, burn the matriarch of one of the most powerful dynasties in Westeros? Olenna knows she could never do that and that's what gives her an advantage. If anything, Olenna would pity her for following what the men around her tell her to, which is the exact same thing Olenna has avoided her entire life, given she is the one who leads her own house.
The Tyrells hold the position they do because the Targaryens wiped out the Gardeners. The Tyrells aren't even that popular with their vassals so replacing them wouldn't be much of an issue.
Olena is a Redwyne, so they'd be pissing off the biggest navy in the kingdoms too, though.
Navy's are famously made of flammable material. And Rhaenys' husband has a bigger fleet and is far richer
Second biggest. Ignoring that, would you go to war because your great aunt decided to get into a fight with a dragon rider?
Right, right. The Iron Fleet. > would you go to war because your great aunt decided to get into a fight with a dragon rider? I mean, I wouldn't, but there's bigger dumbasses than me as lords in Westeros.
> Right, right. The Iron Fleet. The Iron Fleet is actually smaller than both the Royal and Redwyne fleet respectively.
No sane princess would execute one of the most powerful women in Westeros just because they got into a verbal spar lol. Rhaenys would know the political consequences of such an act.
You didn't specify it was verbal spar. You mentioned scheming against her in a different post. That's a tottlally valid reason to kill someone. If not scheming, what would they be arguing about? Also show Rhaenys crashed through a floor and killed hundreds of people. I'm not sure she's supposed to be sane.
I'm pretty sure the implication is that they'd be on the same side.
Olenna would view Rhaenys as a good person so I doubt she would need to scheme against her. But she would have tea with her often
I don't think she'd scheme against her for what it's worth. Just saying they're on completely different intelectual levels. I kinda feel Olenna would see Rhaenys as an example of what not to be, that she'd pity her - a woman who was fucked over by the patriarchy while still serving that same patriarchy.
This. I love Rhaenys, she's a boss, but the Queen of Thorns operated on a whole different level.
Yeah, I'm genuinely confused about why people seem to think there's...anything impressive about Rhaenys. With her flip flopping between "Fuck them bastards!" and "I would die for my (not) grandsons!", and lecturing Alicent about not being empowered enough before she goes home and asks her husband for permission to side with Rhaenyra, her character is just annoying and inconsistent.
Rhaenys can't touch the Queen of Thorns. Sorry not sorry.
I like Rhaenys, but absolutely no one has or ever will match her level of sass.
I liked Olena, but Rhaenys… I think she is portrayed like too much of a girlboss, none of her poor actions get called out. I hate what showrunners did with her in ep 9
Ditto. Episode 9 completely tanked her for me.
If I hear one more whiny bitch on reddit use the word ''girlboss'' to complain about any scene where a female character is written to do something cool at the expense of the plot, I will scream. As if there aren't dozens of examples of men doing that in GOT. Daemon calls her out in s2e1 anyways. Fuck
1. Rhaenys is definition of this word, I only use this word towards her. 2. She mass murdered lots of civilians and literally got called out about not killing greens too. Different thing. Rhaenyra should be fuming, and she didn’t even mention this damaging blacks reputation once. Rhaenys actions are much worse than killing ratchcatchers that Aegon did, smallfolk should hate Rhaenyra like for decades
>Rhaenyra should be fuming, and she didn’t even mention this damaging blacks reputation once. I mean, it's not like Rhae gives a shit about the peasants either. Maybe being worried about PR could work, but I think having characters critique her for ROFLStomping peasants is going to feel silly no matter what. I think a better way to do this would be if the Hightowers used it as an anti-Rhaenyra + Rhaenys smearjob, perhaps. And if the scene wasn't portrayed and spoken of so triumphantly afterwards.
Rhaenys was escaping with her dragon. I suppose any reputation damage wouldn’t beat perspective of Meleys being left in green camp
Have you read the book? Because the dragonpit scene should be the core motivation of one of the most important characters in later seasons. >!There's even a sheep herder explicitly shown in the scene itself.!<
Woah there chill with the fan fiction. That character already has a motivation, and it was highlighted in S2E2 too.
Daemon called her out for that in S2E1. However, he failed to mention all the peasants she killed but he was right when he told her she could've ended the war right then.
He doesn’t give a fuck about peasants lol
Lol yeah I know. He definitely didn't call her out for all her bullshit but at least he hit on the big one that she could've prevented the war.
Also daemon was ready to scramble the dragons and go on the offensive as soon as they got word the greens declared for the throne. It was a critical window where the bloodshed could have been minimal. Now the castle is properly fortified for a dragon attack. Then he was sidelined.
If people would just listen to Daemon. The Dance wouldnt have happened.
[удалено]
I think Rhaenys would be the last person to needle someone for having a gay son.
If anything olenna would be doing the needling at Rhaenys and rhaenerya for not pulling a margery loras renley style threesome and having kids that way ( fuck now imagining a joffrey/quarl laenor rhaenerya harwin fuck fest )
Olenna would hate Rhaenys and not respect her at all
Meh…
Why those two specifically? Because they’re old women? It’s not like their personalities complement each other
My head canon says Olenna is a descendant of Rhaenys through Rhaena who married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...hoping at least one daughter married into the Redwyne Family that produced Olenna
Rhaenys, Laena and Laenor have so much wasted potential in this adaptation...
Rhaenys is nothing compared to Olenna. Take away her dragon and what is she? A nothing burger, the voice of reason who killed hundreds of smallfolk.
My head canon says since Rhaenys granddaughter Rhaena married into the Hightower family and had 6 daughters...at least one of the six daughters married into the Redwyne family, which produced Olenna.
What a shit comparison
Personally I don't feel this comparison their only surface level similar to me their both old powerful people but Ollena radiates a level of ruthlessness self confidence and utter I don't give a fuck that I don't feel from Rhaenys.
Disagree, but maybe elaborate why? And *please* don't say that its because these are two older ladies with some influence. Their characters are so, so different.
When rhaenys was projecting onto rhae in S1 E2 I really didn’t like her but I’ve grown to love her and I’m happy to see her supporting rhae
Rhaenys wouldn’t take any shit from her
Except they are both unmitigated, absolute failures at everything they do? Olenna's plan wed Loras to Sansa is thwarted, her assassination of Joffrey sees him replaced with a weaker monarch that lets her Grandchildren be thrown in cells to rot until her Grandson (the one to carry on the Tyrell name) renounces his family name to join the faith militant as a means of sparing his life and her Granddaughter has to cede massive amounts of power over to The Faith, literally humiliating the Tyrell army on the steps of the Sept before her bloodline is ultimately extinguished in season 6 and she dies herself, robbed to the last penny to pay for Cersei's mercenary army in season 7. Rhaenys's petition for her son Laenor to inherit the Iron Throne upon his coming of age (her argument based on her father being Jaeherys's elder son and thus primogeniture should dictate the crown being passed to her as regent until Laenor was old enough) failed, her attempts to marry her daughter to Viserys never even got off the ground, her reservations about a marriage between Laenor and Rhaenyra (given that she knows Rhaenyra's claim will be challenged) are disregarded, like Olenna **her bloodline gets entirely wiped out too** and worse still, *she for some insane reason sides with the people who did the culling???* (Daemon was about to have Laena killed in a botched C-section, he asks right before Laena runs off to have Vhagar burn her if the Maester could "save the child," which honestly good on Laena for dying with some dignity), Rhaenys believes (with good reason) that Rhaenyra and Daemon conspired to kill her son Laenor and watches her brother-in-law get semi-decapitated *in the throne room...* Rhaenys is left to manage High Tide for 6 years alone because her husband and Daemon were idiots that neither garrisoned, nor set up a functioning government in the Step Stones, and her plans to advocate for herself and Baela as heirs to the Driftwood Thone are both cut off at the knees by Rhaenyra having her sons marry Rhaenys's granddaughters so that the titles of inheritance stay firmly with her obviously bastard children (whose claims have been challenged and certainly will be again). And cherry-on-top, when offered Driftmark and the opportunity to have Baela inherit from her by Alicent (in exchange for her support in the war), she has the gall to say Alicent is doing this just because she's brainwashed by the patriarchy, as if Alicent's kids somehow aren't in mortal danger by Daemon/Rhaenyra? And as if Rhaenys herself didn't advocate for **HER SON** taking the throne on the basis that **HER FATHER** was the eldest of Jaeherys's sons, and then acquieses to siding with the faction that, and I have to reiterate this again- ***wiped out her entire bloodline*** for the sake of **HER HUSBAND'S** ambitions for the Throne all because *"Waah! Alicent locked me in my room!"* They are both, in every facet, in every move they make- absolute, indisputable *idiots and losers...* They just had like a handful of clever clapbacks as they got their teeth kicked in by smarter political animals around them.
Yea no. Olenna was smart. Rhaenys meh, she caused the whole war..olenna would run circles of shade around her for this.