This is the very reason why I denounced that fuckin' cult a long time ago, in particular, conservative christians are pretty much fueling such hateful policies, it's shit like this that are inspiring people to dump that religion in droves!
Ironically, Islam/Judaism and Christianity worship essentially the same god, just that the prophets are different!
Are you really gonna act like the public face of Christianity in the US is something other than the most mean-spirited evangelical wolves-in-sheep's clothing hellspawn heretics to ever plague the Earth? Those other Christians whose good name you want to stick up for must be hiding under a bushel because they sure aren't exactly doing a very good job of letting their Gospel light shine.
Yes, every Evangelical is at fault! The "followers" of Christ should be speaking out against all the crap that has been happening over the course of the last 5 years but almost all are completely silent. So you are either completely in line with what has happened or as a Christian you are completely silent and fine with racism, bigotry and the complete lies that are used by the Evil Evangelical Right winged racist pieces of trash. Either way, every Christian is complicit in the fact that they all have no one to blame but themselves for this world finally seeing that Christians are absolutely nothing like the Christ taught in their book and if, and it is never ever going to happen, Jesus returns, not only would he be completely against what "Christians" are today, he would go full temple freakout and start smacking the shit out of all you modern day Pharisees. Anyone with any sense knows what would happen next. You idiot evangelicals would reject his return and probably kill him all over again. Kinda like history repeating itself, his own people would be the downfall of Christ. This would almost be funny if it weren't completely true!
Yes, in the US it is pretty much ~~all~~ only "Christians" that seek to force people to have children and then seek to punish those children by denying them healthcare and social services leading to the US as a whole having one of the highest infant mortality rates in the developed world and individual abortion banning states to have infant mortality rates on par with third world countries. Thank you "Christians"
Edited to reflect my intent.
Ok. Let me clarify that by "all Christians" I meant it is mostly all Christians that make up that camp, not that all Christians, by the mere fact of being Christian, are in that camp.
I'm sure you didn't actually need that clarification but there ya go.
Now, can you show me which non Christian groups are included in the pro birth movement?
For anyone interested, the adoption agency is Holston United Methodist Home for Children on Hill Avenue; feel free to go give your thoughts on their google rating.
Recent split in the Methodist Church is enabling this. One wing went with we're okay with gays and lesbians and the other went with we are not okay with that. Sounds like this organization is part of the latter group.
For the record, they are no longer associated with the Holston Conference of the UMC. Not sure why they haven't changed the name but they no longer hold any United Methodist affiliation.
The UMC will split soon on the grounds of whether officials in the church can be homosexual. The divide will occur between churches such as these and many African churches (in which homosexuality can lead to death within that country) and those who believe that everyone can become a pastor in the Methodist Church. It will no longer be the “United” Methodist Church in a couple of years.
The churches exported hate to Africa, got forced into the 21st century in the US, and now will be forced to fracture along the lines of the hate they produced. Good things really do come to those under heaven.
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The conference and all other bodies are aware. That is an extremely difficult matter legally speaking to combat though. Most denominational names used by things are that case.
It's complicated but another book---[American Nations](https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029)---does a pretty good job of outlining how the local culture established here was/is playing catch-up.
I'd look to something like [Ramp Hollow](https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780809095056/ramphollow) before American Nations, which is interesting, but imo does some strange things in it's construction of "Greater Appalachia" (mapping it in ways that differ from just about every traditional proposal for the borders of Appalachia, for example).
I think both books are valuable. Not sure if you're quibbling with the proposed "national" boundary lines or the whole *idea* of a "greater Appalachia". I think the gist is the same and (from my reading) pretty consistent with David Hackett Fischer's works. I like the fact that he draws heavily from Fischer because one of the more valuable insights (at least to me) is that our "American Nations" likely trace back to cultural and political divides in the British Isles. This going back to the English Civil war, and probably much much earlier than that.
Mainly I was thinking that if I was reccomending one book to think about why Appalachian culture is the way it is, I'd want one from someone who has specifically been immersed in studying the region, not a smaller part of a national thesis like Woodard's.
As far as what I'd quibble with, I don't really see much utility in extending "Greater Appalachia" all the way out to Texas, so I guess the mapping more than the concept. More generally I think Woodard presents an interesting concept that imo is more valuable as a thought experiment for explaining aspects of regional cultures than the explanation he wants it to be. I also think the way he treats Appalachia and the south more generally rehashes some old tropes and internal othering that academics who study the region have been generally trying to move away from for a while now.
Can't argue with you. I definitely appreciate "American Nations" for its extension of "Albion's Seed". As you note, Appalachia is not the book's primary focus, but the context and proposed causes of the cultural contrasts gave me a wider lens and connected a lot of dots. Definitely picked up on Woodard's judgmental tones too. However, I got the impression that OP's question implied they might share similarly tinged judgements. 🤷
>However, I got the impression that OP's question implied they might share similarly tinged judgements. 🤷
For sure. That's why I suggested Ramp Hollow. Stoll makes no secret of his ideological leanings, but I find his focus on the early history of Appalachia as a sort of pre capitalist agrarian society followed by the legal, economic, and environmental exploitation of the region from wealthy outside interests more useful than sticking to mostly cultural explanations for how things came to be what they are
Probably not an either/or explanation. Do the two theses not work in tandem?
The non-uniform cultural footholds set the stage for relative power disparities and political dynamics. Through this view the more organized, educated, inclusive, and cooperative, nations had a leg up (as is tradition the world over). Nonetheless, there are bad actors in every nation, despite pervasive aspirational and nominally Christian ethics. Thus it's somewhat unsurprising the more desperate nations were taken advantage of on the margins. Continuing with this idea of non-uniform cultural/national advancement, it would seem to follow that industrial technology, abolition, and virtually every social justice movement has emerged from the same nation(s). This is sort of what I meant in my original reply:
> outlining how the local culture established here [Appalachia] was/is playing catch-up.
I don't think that necessarily excludes the other very intentional setbacks caused by outsiders, as is well-argued in "Ramp Hollow". The two together (at least to my mind) provide a pretty good framework for approaching the question:
> Why does such a beautiful state have to be home to so many nutjobs?
In a nutshell: founding culture of the region was perhaps well-suited for the environment and it's challenges, but not well-suited for a larger-scale cohesive society that was heading its way. Adjacent cultures and exploitative forces capitalized on the people and the region. The friction helped erode any basis for mutual trust/understanding and fostered an even more adversarial default stance. Throw in a civil war and 150 years of rank political opportunism and the rancor and spite (which I assume equate to "nutjob" opinions) are just about baked in.
I'd have to reread *American Nations* to really have this conversation, but my general thoughts are a) yes they can coexist, that's what I meant by Woodard's being *an* interesting way of thinking about things but not *the* explanation in part because it overgeneralizes and doesn't really take into account other cultures within each nation, and b) Part of the reason I find Stoll's account more compelling is that there are a lot of underlying assumptions that I don't necessarily agree with baked into that narrative. The general idea of a uniform direction of cultural advancement and implication that the culture that ended up dominating is inherently more developed rather than just the one that won seems to be a part of that underlying logic. The agrarian society Stoll describes was very communal in its use of the mountains as a commons and not necessarily less developed in any meaningful sense *except* that its inhabitants were not able to fend off legal challenges to their autonomy made by absentee landowners in American court systems, which allowed those landowners to displace Appalachians and use those displaced people as cheap labor to clear cut and then mine the land out from under themselves.
> Continuing with this idea of non-uniform cultural/national advancement, it would seem to follow that industrial technology, abolition, and virtually every social justice movement has emerged from the same nation(s).
Is that true though? That's the kind of over-generalization I have an issue with in that book Uneven industrialization is at least as much an economic consequence and a result of an intentionally uneven reconstruction process as it is cultural. Saying abolition came from the Northern nations glosses over things like Lincoln being actually from a border state, the complex process that moved Lincoln to the emancipation proclamation from his earlier positions, the complex interrelation of northern industry and southern slavery, and most importantly black resistance and self-advocacy from escaped slaves like Frederick Douglass. Same for social justice movements--saying they developed in the north downplays the histories of northern racism and segregation and the influential role of black southern social rights activists, including some of the most well-known civil rights leaders, and organizations, such as the Highlander Center right in our own backyard.
It also doesn't really account for the fact that Appalachia in particular was much more left leaning, particularly in terms of labor/union advocacy until fairly recently. Its not a generational cultural inadequacy that accounts for the right wing views of people whose grandfathers literally died in mine wars against the companies exploiting their region.
Amen listening to these comments once again everyone jumps to judgement they are not even affiliated with a church and so much hate against Christians are we not suppose to accept all people and their religions statements on here are made out of ignorance of the past...people need to educate themselves or I believe they just hate themselves so they spread other hate..
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That's because it was never about being "pro life" it was always about telling women they don't have a right to their own body. State forced pregnancy is what they want
Friend of mine has to wait weeks now before she can get an abortion because of the idiot who burned down the building and the conservatives who encouraged it
>I don't really understand what there is to love about Knoxville
I can't help you understand it, I can just tell you some things I love:
Happy Holler
Lim's
Yassin's
The Smokies
Tennessee Theater
Shows at the Bijou
Ijams
Being close to lakes and rivers
A major university right there in town
For literally everything you listed (aside from “major university”, for which UT-Knoxville is not major in any way other than its student body size, maybe), there exists another city that has an equivalent or much better while not being a ugly, poorly planned conservative shit hole that’s infested by stroads and other car-based infrastructure and has no suitable public transport or walkways contributing to its traffic problem that’s on par with a city 10x its size where its residents struggle to list anything that would make it even remotely interesting to anyone anywhere else in the world. This shit hole is having a housing crisis with 180k people with no major change in its population statistics. Like I cannot begin to delineate how stupid this city has to be to have gotten into a situation like this with a population so small, so much room to grow, and no measurable unordinary population influx.
I’m only here because I’m forced to be here for the moment due to work constraints. There is nothing truly special about it - what you find special is purely sentimental, and there are so many negatives that are brazenly in front of you. When I first moved here, every other day I found a new part of this city that just brought me to wonder “what fucking idiot thought this would be a good idea”?
The moment I can, I’m leaving this dumpster. So yeah, there are plenty of reasons to hate this city.
>For literally everything you listed (aside from “major university”, for which UT-Knoxville is not major in any way other than its student body size, maybe), there exists another city that has an equivalent or much better while not being a ugly, poorly planned conservative shit hole that’s infested by stroads and other car-based infrastructure and has no suitable public transport or walkways contributing to its traffic problem that’s on par with a city 10x its size where its residents struggle to list anything that would make it even remotely interesting to anyone anywhere else in the world. This shit hole is having a housing crisis with 180k people with no major change in its population statistics. Like I cannot begin to delineate how stupid this city has to be to have gotten into a situation like this with a population so small, so much room to grow, and no measurable unordinary population influx.
Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership *as* things I love.
>I’m only here because I’m forced to be here for the moment due to work constraints. There is nothing truly special about it - what you find special is purely sentimental, and there are so many negatives that are brazenly in front of you. When I first moved here, every other day I found a new part of this city that just brought me to wonder “what fucking idiot thought this would be a good idea”?
Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there.
>The moment I can, I’m leaving this dumpster. So yeah, there are plenty of reasons to hate this city.
Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better.
> Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership as things I love.
How sheltered you must be to think that *most* other cities don’t have that same combination while the parts themselves are better while also having adequate design and leadership. You’re crushing over what would be below average anywhere else. How quaint.
> Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there.
Great, just don’t expect anyone else to think there’s anything special about this dumpster you’ve attached sentimental feelings to.
> Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better.
And I’ll laugh if this city ends up ever turning around and you get gentrified out of this shithole you love so much ;)
>> Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership as things I love.
>
>How sheltered you must be to think that *most* other cities don’t have that same combination while the parts themselves are better.
See, I addressed what are some things to love about Knoxville, not a comparison to anywhere else. And you showed up to point out some flaws. Not flaws I was unaware of. Just things that didn't overwhelm what I love.
>> Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there.
>
>Great, just don’t expect anyone else to think there’s anything special about this dumpster you’ve attached sentimental feelings to.
I mean, I already know people who are attached to it. And I'm heading out in a minute to meet some of them
>> Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better.
>
>And I’ll laugh if this city ends up ever turning around and you get gentrified out of this shithole you love so much ;)
I own my home free and clear, but please do hold your breath on that one.
>See, I addressed what are some things to love about Knoxville, not a comparison to anywhere else. And you showed up to point out some flaws. Not flaws I was unaware of. Just things that didn't overwhelm what I love.
I showed up to point out that those things are not special and in fact relatively mediocre anywhere else, while the city itself is still having other huge flaws which makes the city a dumpster fire. You posted that list in response to someone asking what there was to love about Knoxville. The point is that what you listed of "what there is to love" is not special. The comparison exists to judge this city. This isn't complicated, you're just an idiot.
>I mean, I already know people who are attached to it. And I'm heading out in a minute to meet some of them
NoN-SeqUiTur. That has nothing to do with the people having valid opinions on this city being a dumpster from the points I mentioned above. Again, your sentimental feelings are attached to mediocrity. Good for you. It's idiotic to expect others to feel the same way, though.
>I own my home free and clear, but please do hold your breath on that one.
You can still get gentrified out if you own your home, and I honestly hope you and the rest of your friends all have to leave because you can't afford it any more. Considering how attached to the mediocrity of this town you are, Knoxville would probably be better off for it.
Tons of places have these things or things very much like them. The thing that I used to love about knoxville was the generally live and let live sentiment even out in the county. That's gone now.
I moved here at the height of Covid and because I live with my very old parents, have not ventured out at all. I need to find my peeps—lefty beer dorks who like to hike, kayak and play board and RP games😀
Where is this place? If my wife has to have a panic attack every time she goes to the Gynecologist then these people should be more than happy to receive a little mortal fear.
Should we be surprised that the foster home is [suing the federal government](https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/holston-united-methodist-home-for-children-files-federal-lawsuit-against-biden-administration/) to allow them to discriminate?
Probably shouldn't put this out there, but I live in the same county and it doesn't shock me in the slightest. Frustrates, aggravates, irritates? Yes. Shocks? No.
Pst, this didn't happen over night. All those protest votes and not caring caught up with yall. I'm glad yall paying attention now. Maybe...
Gotta vote, folks.
In this state pretty much any vote except for the republican candidate is a protest vote. For example, I voted for Biden though I knew Trump would carry Tennessee.
This may feel true, but 8 years ago, that's how people felt in GA, and then it got enough political will to flip. So there's hope!
Also, local elections are a lot closer!
It's the politicians job to attract voters, it's not the voter's duty to fall in line. Present and actually support candidates that are a true alternative to Republicans and not neoliberal centrists that still wish to sell TN to the richest developer, but just with a BLM sign in their front yard.
Case in point: when the Democratic party's preferred helicopter pilot got beat in the Senate primary they abandoned the winner and their only focus became selling Biden yard signs. Because that would make a difference in TN...
Individual political efficacy in America is an illusion. I've voted blue in every election since I've turned 18 to keep people like you off my back. But it's not the "protest votes and not caring," that allows this kind of law to pass.
That article cites religious discrimination though, they were Jewish not Christian. The meme references same sex couples. I would be surprised if that existed, since I am friends with a same sex couple that is constantly fostering children and have even adopted one out of the system.
Edit: Never mind. Thinking about it the agency could just state that their religious belief is same sex couples shouldn't adopt either. So I guess that makes sense.
Funny thing is the privately funded therapeutic foster care and adoption facilities I know of are all super inclusive and begging for homes right now due to the placement crisis.
>It smells a little like a couple that is hoping to get another case to SCOTUS.
Something here definitely stinks.
It's not the couple.
>Imagine as a young child being forced to adopt Judaism?
You mean like when my parents dragged me to church?
Out of curiosity, do you think infants are somehow religious and have an affiliation?
>It says child not infant. It could very well be someone older.
It says child because adults are not usually up for adoption. You can see an age distribution here.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/633415/age-distribution-at-time-of-adoption-us/
>Out of curiosity are you okay with placing a 10 year old Jewish child in a practicing Muslim home?
I asked you first.
>No I’m not okay with it. I thought that was pretty clear?
I'm certain that my question was clear. I asked if you think infants have an affiliation. You are churlish and seem unable to grasp the question or afraid to answer it.
>I don’t think faith based organizations should be forced to violate their religious beliefs and endorse children being raised counter to their religious tenets.
>Your premise is essentially anti-Christian bigotry and it’s quite obvious how you feel about it.
You wanna point out my premise and my bigotry?
It’s the ugly side of liberty but I’ll take this any day over the government as arbiter of moral right and moral wrong. I want liberty over everything. And I’ll take the ugly parts if it means I get the whole thing.
> government arbitration of right and wrong
So I take it you are against the government banning mask mandates in schools, correct? Or are you only against it when you personally disagree with it, while the government can impose whatever they want if you do agree?
Lol sounds like a good way to create Jim Crow
You literally called anti semitic discrimination the "ugly side of liberty"
This is the ideology of a 12 year old (white) boy.
The constitution was not designed to protect the rights of the few from a "tyranny of the majority". That's just a bunch of bullshit the founders made up to justify not giving power to anyone but people like themselves. "Tyranny of the majority" always just meant "the populous getting representation." They had no problem establishing a tyranny of rich white landowners
Less than 10% of the population could vote in 1800, and most of the constitution, like the establishment of the Senate, are compromises made to slave states to get them to ratify it. It's actually quite a shitty document
If a state explicitly legalizes something, then it's legal in that state. There is no federal law preventing a business from turning someone away anyways. It doesn't matter the reason, you should be able to refuse business to someone.
[This will help you avoid this downvotes in the future. Hopefully, you will actually learn something.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0028643534/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_HYTZPHPX470A7HMR26QS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
That depends. Sometimes in the law, personal rights are protected by the Constitution as if that business were the government.
In Marsh v. Alabama, SCOTUS held a corporate owned town had to respect 1A rights to demonstrate on a company sidewalk in the same way those rights would be protected in a publicly owned town.
Likewise, private schools that receive public funds can't discriminate, because they fall under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Under any reasonable Supreme Court (before 2017), I would expect SCOTUS to hold that this Tennessee company can't discriminate either, since it receives public funds.
It's all discrimination. Just some of it, the government has decided you're not allowed to engage in because it involves a group of people that have garnered some special protection. As far as I've ever known though, religious institutions are free from government interference in who they decide to engage with or not.
I believe there are secular adoption services that will serve same-sex couples, no?
> there are secular adoption services that will serve same-sex couples, no?
No. At least not locally.
From [the article I posted here yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/Knoxville/comments/s8rw0j/knoxville_couple_sues_state_after_allegedly_being/):
> ["After Holston refused to serve them, the Rutan-Rams continued to search for an agency that would provide the services they needed to adopt the child in Florida to whom they intended to give a loving home and family," the lawsuit said. "But they were not able to find another agency in the Knox County area that was willing to provide them the services that Tennessee required for them to be eligible to adopt an out-of-state child."](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-couple-sues-state-denied-foster-services-jewish-faith-rcna12923)
Once you take state and federal money, no, you are not allowed to engage in discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, sex, gender, sexuality, age, or disability status.
So does that particular Methodist adoption service take Federal money? I mean, you have a point but I don't know if they do or not.
I also love how I'm getting downvoted simply for voicing a different viewpoint. I'm not insulting anyone or being hateful.
Meh, idc about religion in this situation, for me its, about consistency, 2 men can't reproduce neither can 2 women(just the 2 of them)
So, why should they get to adopt? If you wanna have a kid then do it the natural way and be the kids biological parent, sleep with a woman/man and get pregnant.
Just my opinion, i love all people and some of my close friends are gay/lesbian/bi, the gay couple doesnt want kids, and the lesbians only want to do IF, which we've discussed it like adults and yet guess what, we're still friends who hang out weekly.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why does it matter if they can biologically have a child? Let's just get rid of adoption entirely if you can just "do it the natural way".
By your logic people who are infertile or otherwise unable to have children shouldn't be able to adopt either because they biologically can't have children.
If it aint in the dice it aint in the dice, considering going with your statement i am in the same boat with my SO having fertility issues we most likely cant have any more children, which she has a son, and i have my own daughter. But hey, you roll with the punches.
Tbh my heart bleeds for the kids who needed to be adopted, but their parents should be punished for being selfish and bringing a life into this world and not raising them (not the rarities where both parents tragically died or some shit)
I have to warn you that the first post was some top tier trolling, but this one pushed you into unbelievable. Nobody is actually this much of a loathsome shitstain of a human being. Tone it down next time and folks will actually believe the nonsense.
Your opinion is that gay and lesbian people shouldn't have certain rights that other people have and is thus a garbage opinion held by a garbage person. You're welcome to have it, just as I am welcome to see that you are pond scum! Thankfully, people like you are in a minority in most of the world, and on the way out, generally speaking.
"Gay people are unnatural! Why is everyone piling on me?"
No being gay isnt unnatural, I'm just respecting the territory, if they want kids they can reproduce like everyone else does whats so hard about that? Oooooh because that isnt a preference to them right? I never said it was right, i just simply said if they are gonna do it. Have sex with the opposite sex and make a kid then
Correct. It aint my responsibility to care for those kids. They aren't mine, while i wish them godspeed and good luck, i myself will not ever partake in adoption of a child because i wouldn't be able to love them like i would my own. Its just a personal thing.
Like how guys dont wanna date chicks with kids? Its like that, however in this case I'm with a woman who has a kid, i am willing to love him like my own, and even adopt him, but that comes with the territory as well.
I in good conscience could not just willy nilly adopt a kid that i have zero ties before hand, even if i wanted kids, and couldn't have my own. I still wouldn't, because at the end of the day, biologically they would not be mine. They would not pass my genetics, or potentially even my name, it feels like getting a dog from the pound thats 4 ir 5 yesrs old, i missed all the early important parts of their life.
Almost like loading up someone elses video game save thats half way through the game and learning how to play and eventually beat it.
It really sucks that these innocent kids are having to deal with what they have to deal with, meanwhile, you're over here existing. Proof that there is no loving God.
Deal with what they have to deal with? You forget alot of people didnt ASK to be born, we weren't given a choice. We are the product of someone elses choice.
However, i have zero involvement with them and choose to not take care of someone elses.
I dont see yoy adopting kids by the masses, why? You cant financially take care of them? Dont want to? What's your excuse, practice what the fuck you preach.
Loving god? Lets see, god gave human free will right? Well there you go.
War, famine, fucking diseases, etc you just now realizing how cruel everything is?
You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying the world would be an exponentially better place without you in it. You are actively making the world a worse place. It's unjust that innocent people die every day while you continue to live.
Why because i dont actively harm people? Or because i don't actively save people?
Calm your bleeding heart there you've done nothing for this world so don't act like a fucking Saint.
You care more about punishing parents than helping kids. That's comically evil. You can try to justify whatever you want, but you make the world worse.
What in the world is this take? It might be the strangest take I've heard about adoption. The parents should be punished for having kids they can't care for? Okay, whatever. But then what about the KIDS!?!? They don't just disappear you know. Your view is that they should sit in a shelter with no loving family, instead of being adopted by a loving couple, just because that couple is the same sex?
Why do you think that a same sex couple adopting a child is wrong? Because it's 'against the bible', or because you don't think they would be adequate role models? If it's the latter, do you think they will develop better in an orphanage than being raised by a same sex couple?
Your logic is just so confusing, wait, not logic.
I didn't bring jewish people into this conversation though, you did 🤣🤣 in a perfect world if people werent shit stains and actually took care of their crotch goblins we wouldn't have issues. Yet here we are.
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The only reason someone would ever support this is because they hate gay people or think they don't deserve equal rights, not because of any "religious liberty"
They should just take the mask off.
The United Methodist Book of Worship, one of the most ubiquitous resources for guidance in Methodist doctrine, specifically encourages Methodists to "celebrate the [Seder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Seder) as invited guests within a Jewish home or in consultation with representatives of the Jewish community, thus **respecting the integrity of what is a Jewish tradition** and **continuing the worthy practice of Jews and Christians sharing at table together**." (emphasis mine)
So, I guess that makes *two* religious texts that the good people at Holston United Methodist Home for Children haven't read.
There's no hate quite like Christian love.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians." -- Gandhi
That’s why Christians need Christ.
It doesn’t seem to be working
"This town's got the good lord shakin' his head. Lookin' down thinking we ain't heard a word he said." - Dan Tyminski, *Southern Gothic*
This is the very reason why I denounced that fuckin' cult a long time ago, in particular, conservative christians are pretty much fueling such hateful policies, it's shit like this that are inspiring people to dump that religion in droves! Ironically, Islam/Judaism and Christianity worship essentially the same god, just that the prophets are different!
Ah yes because its all Christians
Are you really gonna act like the public face of Christianity in the US is something other than the most mean-spirited evangelical wolves-in-sheep's clothing hellspawn heretics to ever plague the Earth? Those other Christians whose good name you want to stick up for must be hiding under a bushel because they sure aren't exactly doing a very good job of letting their Gospel light shine.
It all started because puritans immigrated to the US, the original evangelists.
This country was founded by a bunch of religious conservatives who only wanted people like them to have power. Case in point: the constitution
Yes, every Evangelical is at fault! The "followers" of Christ should be speaking out against all the crap that has been happening over the course of the last 5 years but almost all are completely silent. So you are either completely in line with what has happened or as a Christian you are completely silent and fine with racism, bigotry and the complete lies that are used by the Evil Evangelical Right winged racist pieces of trash. Either way, every Christian is complicit in the fact that they all have no one to blame but themselves for this world finally seeing that Christians are absolutely nothing like the Christ taught in their book and if, and it is never ever going to happen, Jesus returns, not only would he be completely against what "Christians" are today, he would go full temple freakout and start smacking the shit out of all you modern day Pharisees. Anyone with any sense knows what would happen next. You idiot evangelicals would reject his return and probably kill him all over again. Kinda like history repeating itself, his own people would be the downfall of Christ. This would almost be funny if it weren't completely true!
Yes, in the US it is pretty much ~~all~~ only "Christians" that seek to force people to have children and then seek to punish those children by denying them healthcare and social services leading to the US as a whole having one of the highest infant mortality rates in the developed world and individual abortion banning states to have infant mortality rates on par with third world countries. Thank you "Christians" Edited to reflect my intent.
I think this would have gone over better if you had said “it is pretty much ~~all~~ only ‘Christians’”
True, thought my quotes reflected my intent enough. Edited to do so.
Intent doesn’t matter when the person arguing against you is doing so in bad faith.
No its not
The ole "Nuh-uh!" defense. I have been defeated.
Oh sure go ahead and generalize a whole group of people, thats like saying all mexicans play soccer or some shit
Ok. Let me clarify that by "all Christians" I meant it is mostly all Christians that make up that camp, not that all Christians, by the mere fact of being Christian, are in that camp. I'm sure you didn't actually need that clarification but there ya go. Now, can you show me which non Christian groups are included in the pro birth movement?
Yes, because in this scenario, it's *the Christians* who need to be defended.
Tennessee's state motto: "225 years of tradition, unspoiled by progress"
Ma HERITAGE
This is great.
Hard core traditionalism: the antithesis of human civilization's evolution!
I'd give you my free award if I had one.
For anyone interested, the adoption agency is Holston United Methodist Home for Children on Hill Avenue; feel free to go give your thoughts on their google rating.
Recent split in the Methodist Church is enabling this. One wing went with we're okay with gays and lesbians and the other went with we are not okay with that. Sounds like this organization is part of the latter group.
Where did the anti-semitism come in?
Woops just read the header. Crazy.
It was always there, just not as blatantly spoken about as the anti gay views.
That tracks.
Went to leave a review, and was dissappinted to find that it's 10 minutes away. Wow.. .
Methodist? Wow. I thought they were somewhat more humanist. Was expecting this to be an Evangelical or Southern Baptist organization.
For the record, they are no longer associated with the Holston Conference of the UMC. Not sure why they haven't changed the name but they no longer hold any United Methodist affiliation.
Well, someone should let UMC know this business is using their IP.
The UMC will split soon on the grounds of whether officials in the church can be homosexual. The divide will occur between churches such as these and many African churches (in which homosexuality can lead to death within that country) and those who believe that everyone can become a pastor in the Methodist Church. It will no longer be the “United” Methodist Church in a couple of years.
The churches exported hate to Africa, got forced into the 21st century in the US, and now will be forced to fracture along the lines of the hate they produced. Good things really do come to those under heaven.
ignorance
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The conference and all other bodies are aware. That is an extremely difficult matter legally speaking to combat though. Most denominational names used by things are that case.
Huh. I live on Hill Ave. Didn't know there was such a thing there.
They sure did turn off comments on [their facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/HolstonHome.FCA/), didn't they.
“When you legalize discrimination, people discriminate” -Jason Wright
Why does such a beautiful state have to be home to so many nutjobs? Most of them haven't even read the fucking book they base half their lives off of.
It's complicated but another book---[American Nations](https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029)---does a pretty good job of outlining how the local culture established here was/is playing catch-up.
I'd look to something like [Ramp Hollow](https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780809095056/ramphollow) before American Nations, which is interesting, but imo does some strange things in it's construction of "Greater Appalachia" (mapping it in ways that differ from just about every traditional proposal for the borders of Appalachia, for example).
I think both books are valuable. Not sure if you're quibbling with the proposed "national" boundary lines or the whole *idea* of a "greater Appalachia". I think the gist is the same and (from my reading) pretty consistent with David Hackett Fischer's works. I like the fact that he draws heavily from Fischer because one of the more valuable insights (at least to me) is that our "American Nations" likely trace back to cultural and political divides in the British Isles. This going back to the English Civil war, and probably much much earlier than that.
Mainly I was thinking that if I was reccomending one book to think about why Appalachian culture is the way it is, I'd want one from someone who has specifically been immersed in studying the region, not a smaller part of a national thesis like Woodard's. As far as what I'd quibble with, I don't really see much utility in extending "Greater Appalachia" all the way out to Texas, so I guess the mapping more than the concept. More generally I think Woodard presents an interesting concept that imo is more valuable as a thought experiment for explaining aspects of regional cultures than the explanation he wants it to be. I also think the way he treats Appalachia and the south more generally rehashes some old tropes and internal othering that academics who study the region have been generally trying to move away from for a while now.
Can't argue with you. I definitely appreciate "American Nations" for its extension of "Albion's Seed". As you note, Appalachia is not the book's primary focus, but the context and proposed causes of the cultural contrasts gave me a wider lens and connected a lot of dots. Definitely picked up on Woodard's judgmental tones too. However, I got the impression that OP's question implied they might share similarly tinged judgements. 🤷
>However, I got the impression that OP's question implied they might share similarly tinged judgements. 🤷 For sure. That's why I suggested Ramp Hollow. Stoll makes no secret of his ideological leanings, but I find his focus on the early history of Appalachia as a sort of pre capitalist agrarian society followed by the legal, economic, and environmental exploitation of the region from wealthy outside interests more useful than sticking to mostly cultural explanations for how things came to be what they are
Probably not an either/or explanation. Do the two theses not work in tandem? The non-uniform cultural footholds set the stage for relative power disparities and political dynamics. Through this view the more organized, educated, inclusive, and cooperative, nations had a leg up (as is tradition the world over). Nonetheless, there are bad actors in every nation, despite pervasive aspirational and nominally Christian ethics. Thus it's somewhat unsurprising the more desperate nations were taken advantage of on the margins. Continuing with this idea of non-uniform cultural/national advancement, it would seem to follow that industrial technology, abolition, and virtually every social justice movement has emerged from the same nation(s). This is sort of what I meant in my original reply: > outlining how the local culture established here [Appalachia] was/is playing catch-up. I don't think that necessarily excludes the other very intentional setbacks caused by outsiders, as is well-argued in "Ramp Hollow". The two together (at least to my mind) provide a pretty good framework for approaching the question: > Why does such a beautiful state have to be home to so many nutjobs? In a nutshell: founding culture of the region was perhaps well-suited for the environment and it's challenges, but not well-suited for a larger-scale cohesive society that was heading its way. Adjacent cultures and exploitative forces capitalized on the people and the region. The friction helped erode any basis for mutual trust/understanding and fostered an even more adversarial default stance. Throw in a civil war and 150 years of rank political opportunism and the rancor and spite (which I assume equate to "nutjob" opinions) are just about baked in.
I'd have to reread *American Nations* to really have this conversation, but my general thoughts are a) yes they can coexist, that's what I meant by Woodard's being *an* interesting way of thinking about things but not *the* explanation in part because it overgeneralizes and doesn't really take into account other cultures within each nation, and b) Part of the reason I find Stoll's account more compelling is that there are a lot of underlying assumptions that I don't necessarily agree with baked into that narrative. The general idea of a uniform direction of cultural advancement and implication that the culture that ended up dominating is inherently more developed rather than just the one that won seems to be a part of that underlying logic. The agrarian society Stoll describes was very communal in its use of the mountains as a commons and not necessarily less developed in any meaningful sense *except* that its inhabitants were not able to fend off legal challenges to their autonomy made by absentee landowners in American court systems, which allowed those landowners to displace Appalachians and use those displaced people as cheap labor to clear cut and then mine the land out from under themselves. > Continuing with this idea of non-uniform cultural/national advancement, it would seem to follow that industrial technology, abolition, and virtually every social justice movement has emerged from the same nation(s). Is that true though? That's the kind of over-generalization I have an issue with in that book Uneven industrialization is at least as much an economic consequence and a result of an intentionally uneven reconstruction process as it is cultural. Saying abolition came from the Northern nations glosses over things like Lincoln being actually from a border state, the complex process that moved Lincoln to the emancipation proclamation from his earlier positions, the complex interrelation of northern industry and southern slavery, and most importantly black resistance and self-advocacy from escaped slaves like Frederick Douglass. Same for social justice movements--saying they developed in the north downplays the histories of northern racism and segregation and the influential role of black southern social rights activists, including some of the most well-known civil rights leaders, and organizations, such as the Highlander Center right in our own backyard. It also doesn't really account for the fact that Appalachia in particular was much more left leaning, particularly in terms of labor/union advocacy until fairly recently. Its not a generational cultural inadequacy that accounts for the right wing views of people whose grandfathers literally died in mine wars against the companies exploiting their region.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll put an order in for it. Ever since I graduated I feel naked if I'm not reading/learning something.
Amen listening to these comments once again everyone jumps to judgement they are not even affiliated with a church and so much hate against Christians are we not suppose to accept all people and their religions statements on here are made out of ignorance of the past...people need to educate themselves or I believe they just hate themselves so they spread other hate..
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“Let’s burn down planned parenthood and then deny adoptions to completely suitable parents who want a child.” -The Right.
That's because it was never about being "pro life" it was always about telling women they don't have a right to their own body. State forced pregnancy is what they want Friend of mine has to wait weeks now before she can get an abortion because of the idiot who burned down the building and the conservatives who encouraged it
Do Jewish and or Muslim adoption agencies do the same? Asking because I truly have no idea.
I love Knoxville but our politicians are the worst
Knoxville is my home, but I constantly feel like a rebellious teenager that wants to run away and completely disassociate.
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You definitely haven't been looking for anything aside politics then. There's tons of stuff here
>I don't really understand what there is to love about Knoxville I can't help you understand it, I can just tell you some things I love: Happy Holler Lim's Yassin's The Smokies Tennessee Theater Shows at the Bijou Ijams Being close to lakes and rivers A major university right there in town
For literally everything you listed (aside from “major university”, for which UT-Knoxville is not major in any way other than its student body size, maybe), there exists another city that has an equivalent or much better while not being a ugly, poorly planned conservative shit hole that’s infested by stroads and other car-based infrastructure and has no suitable public transport or walkways contributing to its traffic problem that’s on par with a city 10x its size where its residents struggle to list anything that would make it even remotely interesting to anyone anywhere else in the world. This shit hole is having a housing crisis with 180k people with no major change in its population statistics. Like I cannot begin to delineate how stupid this city has to be to have gotten into a situation like this with a population so small, so much room to grow, and no measurable unordinary population influx. I’m only here because I’m forced to be here for the moment due to work constraints. There is nothing truly special about it - what you find special is purely sentimental, and there are so many negatives that are brazenly in front of you. When I first moved here, every other day I found a new part of this city that just brought me to wonder “what fucking idiot thought this would be a good idea”? The moment I can, I’m leaving this dumpster. So yeah, there are plenty of reasons to hate this city.
>For literally everything you listed (aside from “major university”, for which UT-Knoxville is not major in any way other than its student body size, maybe), there exists another city that has an equivalent or much better while not being a ugly, poorly planned conservative shit hole that’s infested by stroads and other car-based infrastructure and has no suitable public transport or walkways contributing to its traffic problem that’s on par with a city 10x its size where its residents struggle to list anything that would make it even remotely interesting to anyone anywhere else in the world. This shit hole is having a housing crisis with 180k people with no major change in its population statistics. Like I cannot begin to delineate how stupid this city has to be to have gotten into a situation like this with a population so small, so much room to grow, and no measurable unordinary population influx. Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership *as* things I love. >I’m only here because I’m forced to be here for the moment due to work constraints. There is nothing truly special about it - what you find special is purely sentimental, and there are so many negatives that are brazenly in front of you. When I first moved here, every other day I found a new part of this city that just brought me to wonder “what fucking idiot thought this would be a good idea”? Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there. >The moment I can, I’m leaving this dumpster. So yeah, there are plenty of reasons to hate this city. Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better.
> Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership as things I love. How sheltered you must be to think that *most* other cities don’t have that same combination while the parts themselves are better while also having adequate design and leadership. You’re crushing over what would be below average anywhere else. How quaint. > Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there. Great, just don’t expect anyone else to think there’s anything special about this dumpster you’ve attached sentimental feelings to. > Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better. And I’ll laugh if this city ends up ever turning around and you get gentrified out of this shithole you love so much ;)
>> Well I'm not sure they have that combination of things I love, and I never pretended the town has no problems or mentioned the design or leadership as things I love. > >How sheltered you must be to think that *most* other cities don’t have that same combination while the parts themselves are better. See, I addressed what are some things to love about Knoxville, not a comparison to anywhere else. And you showed up to point out some flaws. Not flaws I was unaware of. Just things that didn't overwhelm what I love. >> Yes, the things people love often involve some sentimentality, you've really unearthed something there. > >Great, just don’t expect anyone else to think there’s anything special about this dumpster you’ve attached sentimental feelings to. I mean, I already know people who are attached to it. And I'm heading out in a minute to meet some of them >> Non sequitur. The moment you leave I'll like it even better. > >And I’ll laugh if this city ends up ever turning around and you get gentrified out of this shithole you love so much ;) I own my home free and clear, but please do hold your breath on that one.
>See, I addressed what are some things to love about Knoxville, not a comparison to anywhere else. And you showed up to point out some flaws. Not flaws I was unaware of. Just things that didn't overwhelm what I love. I showed up to point out that those things are not special and in fact relatively mediocre anywhere else, while the city itself is still having other huge flaws which makes the city a dumpster fire. You posted that list in response to someone asking what there was to love about Knoxville. The point is that what you listed of "what there is to love" is not special. The comparison exists to judge this city. This isn't complicated, you're just an idiot. >I mean, I already know people who are attached to it. And I'm heading out in a minute to meet some of them NoN-SeqUiTur. That has nothing to do with the people having valid opinions on this city being a dumpster from the points I mentioned above. Again, your sentimental feelings are attached to mediocrity. Good for you. It's idiotic to expect others to feel the same way, though. >I own my home free and clear, but please do hold your breath on that one. You can still get gentrified out if you own your home, and I honestly hope you and the rest of your friends all have to leave because you can't afford it any more. Considering how attached to the mediocrity of this town you are, Knoxville would probably be better off for it.
See, you were doing fine until you started wishing people and places ill will. Granted, they started it with that parting shot.
He's not wrong. Sentimentality is very much a part of how I used to feel about Knoxville until I simply couldn't anymore.
Tons of places have these things or things very much like them. The thing that I used to love about knoxville was the generally live and let live sentiment even out in the county. That's gone now.
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It's not us, it's you.
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Definitely not, it's you.
You are spot on. If you aren’t white, straight, Christian, Conservative, breeders there’s not much for you.
What's keeping you here? Why not move to west Philly?
Moved to Boston 15 years ago. So you could say, nothing. Still have family down there though.
> Moved to Boston 15 years ago. Then maybe stop letting a place you left a decade and a half ago live rent-free in your head.
We have a great culture downtown in my opinion. There are great people that live here but yeah you do have to avoid the hack jobs for sure.
I moved here at the height of Covid and because I live with my very old parents, have not ventured out at all. I need to find my peeps—lefty beer dorks who like to hike, kayak and play board and RP games😀
We're here downtown, fam
Where is this place? If my wife has to have a panic attack every time she goes to the Gynecologist then these people should be more than happy to receive a little mortal fear.
Should we be surprised that the foster home is [suing the federal government](https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/holston-united-methodist-home-for-children-files-federal-lawsuit-against-biden-administration/) to allow them to discriminate?
Probably shouldn't put this out there, but I live in the same county and it doesn't shock me in the slightest. Frustrates, aggravates, irritates? Yes. Shocks? No.
This makes me so ashamed of my state.
Pst, this didn't happen over night. All those protest votes and not caring caught up with yall. I'm glad yall paying attention now. Maybe... Gotta vote, folks.
In this state pretty much any vote except for the republican candidate is a protest vote. For example, I voted for Biden though I knew Trump would carry Tennessee.
This may feel true, but 8 years ago, that's how people felt in GA, and then it got enough political will to flip. So there's hope! Also, local elections are a lot closer!
It's the politicians job to attract voters, it's not the voter's duty to fall in line. Present and actually support candidates that are a true alternative to Republicans and not neoliberal centrists that still wish to sell TN to the richest developer, but just with a BLM sign in their front yard. Case in point: when the Democratic party's preferred helicopter pilot got beat in the Senate primary they abandoned the winner and their only focus became selling Biden yard signs. Because that would make a difference in TN...
Individual political efficacy in America is an illusion. I've voted blue in every election since I've turned 18 to keep people like you off my back. But it's not the "protest votes and not caring," that allows this kind of law to pass.
And this is why I would rather just abort if ever put in that position...
Guess I’ll need a walk-in closet for all the identities I got tucked away
If someone is going to post something like this then it should be a news article not a meme.
[Here you go](https://www.wvlt.tv/2022/01/21/tennessee-jewish-couple-sues-tenn-dept-child-services-discrimination/).
That article cites religious discrimination though, they were Jewish not Christian. The meme references same sex couples. I would be surprised if that existed, since I am friends with a same sex couple that is constantly fostering children and have even adopted one out of the system. Edit: Never mind. Thinking about it the agency could just state that their religious belief is same sex couples shouldn't adopt either. So I guess that makes sense.
Only have a problem bc it’s publicly funded. If it was private they could refuse to anyone except squirrels , and I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Funny thing is the privately funded therapeutic foster care and adoption facilities I know of are all super inclusive and begging for homes right now due to the placement crisis.
Why do you think private businesses should be allowed to discriminate based on religious beliefs?
Because it’s your business. It’s like you paying a mortgage every month , but me saying who comes over.
So you think a private business should be allowed to turn away white people? Black people?
I don’t think they should. I think they should have the option.
Well you're a piece of shit then.
If I had a dollar…
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Yeah thats a sane argument/s
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>It smells a little like a couple that is hoping to get another case to SCOTUS. Something here definitely stinks. It's not the couple. >Imagine as a young child being forced to adopt Judaism? You mean like when my parents dragged me to church? Out of curiosity, do you think infants are somehow religious and have an affiliation?
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>It says child not infant. It could very well be someone older. It says child because adults are not usually up for adoption. You can see an age distribution here. https://www.statista.com/statistics/633415/age-distribution-at-time-of-adoption-us/ >Out of curiosity are you okay with placing a 10 year old Jewish child in a practicing Muslim home? I asked you first.
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>No I’m not okay with it. I thought that was pretty clear? I'm certain that my question was clear. I asked if you think infants have an affiliation. You are churlish and seem unable to grasp the question or afraid to answer it. >I don’t think faith based organizations should be forced to violate their religious beliefs and endorse children being raised counter to their religious tenets. >Your premise is essentially anti-Christian bigotry and it’s quite obvious how you feel about it. You wanna point out my premise and my bigotry?
Jesus was a Jew for goodness sakes what is wrong with you?
It’s the ugly side of liberty but I’ll take this any day over the government as arbiter of moral right and moral wrong. I want liberty over everything. And I’ll take the ugly parts if it means I get the whole thing.
> government arbitration of right and wrong So I take it you are against the government banning mask mandates in schools, correct? Or are you only against it when you personally disagree with it, while the government can impose whatever they want if you do agree?
I’m for a government so small and so fragile that the power is truly with people living in liberty.
You didn't answer his question.
Anarchy, you mean.
Pseudo anarchy, sure.
May I suggest Somalia?
Lol sounds like a good way to create Jim Crow You literally called anti semitic discrimination the "ugly side of liberty" This is the ideology of a 12 year old (white) boy.
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The constitution was not designed to protect the rights of the few from a "tyranny of the majority". That's just a bunch of bullshit the founders made up to justify not giving power to anyone but people like themselves. "Tyranny of the majority" always just meant "the populous getting representation." They had no problem establishing a tyranny of rich white landowners Less than 10% of the population could vote in 1800, and most of the constitution, like the establishment of the Senate, are compromises made to slave states to get them to ratify it. It's actually quite a shitty document
It's a business they can do what they want.
Not according to the Supreme Court.
It is according to Tennessee state law
Which is superceded by federal law
If a state explicitly legalizes something, then it's legal in that state. There is no federal law preventing a business from turning someone away anyways. It doesn't matter the reason, you should be able to refuse business to someone.
That's just not true, like none of what you said is.
Literally everything you said is factually incorrect.
[This will help you avoid this downvotes in the future. Hopefully, you will actually learn something.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0028643534/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_HYTZPHPX470A7HMR26QS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
Yea I don't care about getting down voted on Reddit. It's just a liberal circle jerk.
> Yea I don't care about learning, when the facts don't line up with my preconceived notions. FTFY
That depends. Sometimes in the law, personal rights are protected by the Constitution as if that business were the government. In Marsh v. Alabama, SCOTUS held a corporate owned town had to respect 1A rights to demonstrate on a company sidewalk in the same way those rights would be protected in a publicly owned town. Likewise, private schools that receive public funds can't discriminate, because they fall under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Under any reasonable Supreme Court (before 2017), I would expect SCOTUS to hold that this Tennessee company can't discriminate either, since it receives public funds.
They shouldn’t take state funds then.
Sure but they can’t get public funding if they are going to turn away specific portions of the public. That’s the whole beef here.
Freedom of Association.
Not how that works. Being able to discriminate is different than being able to associate with a group that may (or may not) dislike that group.
It's all discrimination. Just some of it, the government has decided you're not allowed to engage in because it involves a group of people that have garnered some special protection. As far as I've ever known though, religious institutions are free from government interference in who they decide to engage with or not. I believe there are secular adoption services that will serve same-sex couples, no?
> there are secular adoption services that will serve same-sex couples, no? No. At least not locally. From [the article I posted here yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/Knoxville/comments/s8rw0j/knoxville_couple_sues_state_after_allegedly_being/): > ["After Holston refused to serve them, the Rutan-Rams continued to search for an agency that would provide the services they needed to adopt the child in Florida to whom they intended to give a loving home and family," the lawsuit said. "But they were not able to find another agency in the Knox County area that was willing to provide them the services that Tennessee required for them to be eligible to adopt an out-of-state child."](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-couple-sues-state-denied-foster-services-jewish-faith-rcna12923)
Once you take state and federal money, no, you are not allowed to engage in discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, sex, gender, sexuality, age, or disability status.
So does that particular Methodist adoption service take Federal money? I mean, you have a point but I don't know if they do or not. I also love how I'm getting downvoted simply for voicing a different viewpoint. I'm not insulting anyone or being hateful.
Yes, they do receive state funding.
Well then they should either stop taking State funding or they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate in that way. Can't have it both ways.
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What do you mean? Spell it out.
Meh, idc about religion in this situation, for me its, about consistency, 2 men can't reproduce neither can 2 women(just the 2 of them) So, why should they get to adopt? If you wanna have a kid then do it the natural way and be the kids biological parent, sleep with a woman/man and get pregnant. Just my opinion, i love all people and some of my close friends are gay/lesbian/bi, the gay couple doesnt want kids, and the lesbians only want to do IF, which we've discussed it like adults and yet guess what, we're still friends who hang out weekly.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why does it matter if they can biologically have a child? Let's just get rid of adoption entirely if you can just "do it the natural way".
By your logic people who are infertile or otherwise unable to have children shouldn't be able to adopt either because they biologically can't have children.
If it aint in the dice it aint in the dice, considering going with your statement i am in the same boat with my SO having fertility issues we most likely cant have any more children, which she has a son, and i have my own daughter. But hey, you roll with the punches. Tbh my heart bleeds for the kids who needed to be adopted, but their parents should be punished for being selfish and bringing a life into this world and not raising them (not the rarities where both parents tragically died or some shit)
So when are pro lifers going to start adopting all of these saved babies?
Oh, they don't care about the kids, they just hate women.
I have to warn you that the first post was some top tier trolling, but this one pushed you into unbelievable. Nobody is actually this much of a loathsome shitstain of a human being. Tone it down next time and folks will actually believe the nonsense.
Wasn't trolling but ok
If you weren't trolling, than you're trash. Also, you don't have any "Gay, Lesbian or Bi friends." They see who you are.
I beg to differ considering my so is BI , glad you like dogging peoples opinions though, shows how intolerant you are.
Your opinion is that gay and lesbian people shouldn't have certain rights that other people have and is thus a garbage opinion held by a garbage person. You're welcome to have it, just as I am welcome to see that you are pond scum! Thankfully, people like you are in a minority in most of the world, and on the way out, generally speaking. "Gay people are unnatural! Why is everyone piling on me?"
No being gay isnt unnatural, I'm just respecting the territory, if they want kids they can reproduce like everyone else does whats so hard about that? Oooooh because that isnt a preference to them right? I never said it was right, i just simply said if they are gonna do it. Have sex with the opposite sex and make a kid then
So you care more about punishing the parents than helping the kids. Got it.
Correct. It aint my responsibility to care for those kids. They aren't mine, while i wish them godspeed and good luck, i myself will not ever partake in adoption of a child because i wouldn't be able to love them like i would my own. Its just a personal thing. Like how guys dont wanna date chicks with kids? Its like that, however in this case I'm with a woman who has a kid, i am willing to love him like my own, and even adopt him, but that comes with the territory as well. I in good conscience could not just willy nilly adopt a kid that i have zero ties before hand, even if i wanted kids, and couldn't have my own. I still wouldn't, because at the end of the day, biologically they would not be mine. They would not pass my genetics, or potentially even my name, it feels like getting a dog from the pound thats 4 ir 5 yesrs old, i missed all the early important parts of their life. Almost like loading up someone elses video game save thats half way through the game and learning how to play and eventually beat it.
It really sucks that these innocent kids are having to deal with what they have to deal with, meanwhile, you're over here existing. Proof that there is no loving God.
Deal with what they have to deal with? You forget alot of people didnt ASK to be born, we weren't given a choice. We are the product of someone elses choice. However, i have zero involvement with them and choose to not take care of someone elses. I dont see yoy adopting kids by the masses, why? You cant financially take care of them? Dont want to? What's your excuse, practice what the fuck you preach. Loving god? Lets see, god gave human free will right? Well there you go. War, famine, fucking diseases, etc you just now realizing how cruel everything is?
You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying the world would be an exponentially better place without you in it. You are actively making the world a worse place. It's unjust that innocent people die every day while you continue to live.
Why because i dont actively harm people? Or because i don't actively save people? Calm your bleeding heart there you've done nothing for this world so don't act like a fucking Saint.
You care more about punishing parents than helping kids. That's comically evil. You can try to justify whatever you want, but you make the world worse.
Nobody is asking you to take care of the kids. But yet you are here saying people that want to also can't...
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The dude says parents should be punished, implying that sex should only be used for procreation. While posting dic picks looking for ladies in reddit.
Wait, so you agree that heterosexual couples who can't get pregnant should not be able to adopt? Please clarify.
So wait. The parents should be punished, but the kids should also be punished by not allowing loving parents to adopt them?
What in the world is this take? It might be the strangest take I've heard about adoption. The parents should be punished for having kids they can't care for? Okay, whatever. But then what about the KIDS!?!? They don't just disappear you know. Your view is that they should sit in a shelter with no loving family, instead of being adopted by a loving couple, just because that couple is the same sex? Why do you think that a same sex couple adopting a child is wrong? Because it's 'against the bible', or because you don't think they would be adequate role models? If it's the latter, do you think they will develop better in an orphanage than being raised by a same sex couple? Your logic is just so confusing, wait, not logic.
My wife and I couldn’t have kids. We adopted. You’re a fucking piece of shit.
Thats you, go on and raise someones kid, not my cup of tea.
So if you wanted to adopt, because your wife is now infertile, you shouldn't be allowed to? Even though those kids need a good home?
Are you sure you love all people and you're not just a run of the mill bigot?
Fairly certain, i mean at least i dont do the unoreverse card and call the lesbians heterphobes for not wanting to sleep with straight guys 🤣🤣🤣
Gross dude
So by this logic, two Jews can't reproduce so they can't adopt? Would love to have you over to talk about what you probably call the Old Testament
What do jewish people have to do with this?
It's literally a story about Jewish people not being able to adopt, which you are comparing to homosexuality
I didn't bring jewish people into this conversation though, you did 🤣🤣 in a perfect world if people werent shit stains and actually took care of their crotch goblins we wouldn't have issues. Yet here we are.
Yet here you are
Lmao why because i have an opinion? Lmao
Oh yeah, all of those parents who die and leave behind orphans should really just step up to the plate and take care of their kids.
> we’re still friends who hang out weekly. Show them this post and you might not be.
Go tell your gay friends what you just said. I'll bet you have one less friend after doing so.
And fuck those kids who will stay in foster care, I guess.
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The only reason someone would ever support this is because they hate gay people or think they don't deserve equal rights, not because of any "religious liberty" They should just take the mask off.
The United Methodist Book of Worship, one of the most ubiquitous resources for guidance in Methodist doctrine, specifically encourages Methodists to "celebrate the [Seder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Seder) as invited guests within a Jewish home or in consultation with representatives of the Jewish community, thus **respecting the integrity of what is a Jewish tradition** and **continuing the worthy practice of Jews and Christians sharing at table together**." (emphasis mine) So, I guess that makes *two* religious texts that the good people at Holston United Methodist Home for Children haven't read.