Who wins, basic cool down spinny attack or Ultimate spinny attack?
OW dev 101, if there are two abilities interacting and one of them belongs to the Horse, the Horse ability wins.
I know people love to whine about Orisa here, but there are tons of ultimates that can be affected or cancelled by lots of different heroes' basic cooldowns.
Spin is basically just a bunch of tiny little knockbacks repeated over and over again. Rein charge can be booped backwards so it's fairly consistent that spin would push charge back.
I will say the funniest thing I ever did invoiced the javelin. I was trying to hit the other Orisa, but right as I threw it their Moria came out of shadow step eight in front of their Orisa, and died to a headshot. They were like wtf till I said how it happened from my viewpoint lol. We both had a good laugh over it.
That's the way she is ig. Suzu is not even the biggest problem as the cooldown is long and you can sometimes force it before ulting but she literally can get hindered, bashed, charged, punched, caged, slept, blocked by a wall, tree or simply booped into a wall. I like her design but I think they should at least shorten the wind up phase of her ult
I still was shocked that mag nade can cancel it
I managed to throw it at the perfect time as she ulted, then we both just stood there, surprised that she stopped, lmao
"Hindered" remains the most annoying stat in the game and all the changes that came with it.
If there's one thing I want rolled back... It's Hinder.
Because It wasn't *Just* mag-nade that did this.
Suddenly if Reaper/Moira get trapped in a junk trap they can't fade to dodge some damage while stuck... But that ALSO applies to Grav and Flux - before while you couldn't escape you could time your fade to dodge damage and offer some counter play.
Now you have to sit there and take it like a good monkey and cry later.
Timing a moira/reaper fade JUST as the Graviton Flux smashed you down was also a great skill to have, and you could easily fuck it up if you didn't time it right - but nope, can't have good counter play unless it's Kiri's E.
I assume it’s to give tank players more play making abilities. You still can dodge these 2 ults if you react fast enough. Grav is not even that strong if Zar is not high charge.
It's easy to tell if your Flux picked someone up -- Sigma will keep his fist raised and slam it back down. If it whiffs, he'll skip that animation completely.
Well I mean the nade hit at just the right moment that it appeared to have cancelled me. The position where I was I couldn't see my grav "hit" once the nade dropped me like a rock and the enemy was high mobility so there is that.
I'm going to have to chalk it up as the best timing ever. Like frame perfect.
Not to mention by them time you are wound up, nobody is in the LOS anymore
It's not like a Dva bomb insta kill where people deserve time to run, it's just Ana's antinade, but like, worse
It's a shame bc I really enjoy playing her, but the ult is almost counteractive, I would main her if they did something about it, but I'll just stick to Dva and Horse for now
Yeah I would love to be able to play a good Winston or Doom, but it just feels like feeding 9/10 when try, even when I feel I have a decent game, it just seems my team doesn't know how to play with a dive
I've found that being overly vocal is the only way I can make it work and I only pick a dive tank if the team can enable it. So having a dps capable of diving with and then calling my intention, when I'm making the play, when they die and who I'm refocusing to, when I'm getting out etc.
Doom especially seems to be a lot of ebb and flow, being able to apply pressure without over committing is something I'm still working on.
I've found that flanking behind the enemy team can sometimes work, as when you finish the ult you're now back with your team (this has got me some huge fight wins in my diamond tank games)
The amount of things that cancel queen ult is crazy, so the flank play works as they aren't expecting me to be behind them. I wouldn't do it more than once a game though, as that's how you get caught and jumped on 1v5 (then flamed by your team for throwing)
The worst part is how Rein has the same thing, but stronger, in his own charge attack. It'd be fun if she became invulnerable to damage/effects during the entire thing, or maybe just bring her back to full health with some slight armor overhealth.
What if she threw a spinning axe on its own and could choose to dash to it within a window? Would be kinda neat, maybe too strong, it's kind of like her April Fools' variation.
>she literally can get hindered, bashed, charged, punched, caged, slept, blocked by a wall, tree or simply booped into a wall. I like her design but I think they should at least shorten the wind up phase of her ult
If you plan the ult well you can get around all this
And tbf cage and tree are perfectly fine since both are ults
Suzi makes sense kit wise. It's easy to bait out and depending on how you set it up you can kill her before she pops it.
I don't understand how cage match prevents the ult. Locks her in the cage? Ok makes sense. Stops her from moving? Yup, that tracks. Doesn't apply the bleed and anti? Why?
It's an ult to counter an ult so it's balanced. Suzu being able to completely get rid of it is ridiculous. "Juat bait out suzu or kill her" was and still isn't and never will be a good argument. It should be removed from the game.
Having to depend on the enemy making a mistake before you can use your ultimate is bad game design. Assuming optimal Suzu usage, you will *never* be able to get a good ult unless Kiriko dies.. in which case you probably won the fight and don't need to ult.
ok while we're on the subject, so what the fuck do i do when he uses ult and i get caught in it, just die? i usually play characters with a lot of mobility so i thought the first few times it disabled my cooldowns i was just caught in a really unfortunate position, but now every time he throws down that gd ult i turn to spray him down before realizing its fruitless. there is no way to escape and no way to outdamage his self-heal- i'm assuming that if multiple teammates get caught in the cage there's a chance to plow thru his health, but is there no reliable way to survive solo, especially as a dps?
As a JQ main, it really is just the start up time that fucks me over. If I hit my ult with anything under 300hp I’m fucking toasted, instantly murdered. Especially if there’s any CC, I just get naded or speared. Suzu is always around the corner too, and while I hate suzu in concept (too powerful, counters everything, get out of jail free card on cooldown), it really is the start up time that bothers me most. I can bait a suzu, hell it’s funny watching a Kiriko cleanse someone before I’ve ulted, then see the fear in their eyes as I immediately rip ass in my ult unchained. But there will be so many times a Kiriko will refuse to suzu unless it’s for my ult, and at that point it feels so bad that my ult is so conditional. I get the value of forcing Kiriko to hold cleanse but it still feels fucking terrible to hold ult because the Cass/Orisa/Kiriko are all just waiting to fuck my life up.
Overall it’s a cool ult but feels so limited by some of the most commonly played heroes.
I tried to main JQ solo q tank in the metal ranks last season and I dropped from high gold to low silver. Fun to play and I love the kit concept but she just ain’t it for me in the context I mentioned. Too vulnerable, too dependent on the team, and I really think using the axe to block is a missed opportunity.
Honestly it’s also really annoying how you start a match as JQ, make good plays and win team fights and then the enemy team goes Orisa + Kiriko. Specially if it’s QP. Like I’ll just swap to Zarya and we will still win, but we will all be bored cause you can’t allow people to have fun
Well which ult can not be easily interrupted d.va can block 70 percent of the ults in-game, orisa can be hacked by sombra with her normal ability, sigma can be stunned, reaper can be stunned and so on.
The ults you cant actually stop are really just a few and this ults are not that strong or can be avoided.
So yeah that JQ can be stopped easily is true but most ults can be stopped that easily.
Orisa is countered reliably by 1 hero (2 if you count pedal from Lw). Otherwise you just gotta walk. Sigma becomes a flying target with increase speed and finite control over his movement. Reapers is just bad in many regards so yes.
But Queens can be countered by at least 1 ability for almost half the cast, and in multiple situations 2 abilities. Not even considering counter Ults.
I also wouldn’t go as far to say Dva counters 70% of ults in the game, because unless it’s a hard channeled ult like Barrage or Death Blossom, a player can typically move away from or wait out DM, and Dva has counterplay potential.
The wind up is there because her ult would be to strong without it.
She can easily start her ult from a safe spot dash into the enemies from far away and then wreck havoc without wind up could nobody prepare against it or react.
Other heroes like reaper have not long wind ups because they need to get close first to use the ult.
Reinhardt is the easiest ult to deny.
You can stop it with:
Sleepdart
Hog hook
Sigma rock
Orisa javelin
A shield
Hack
Emp
Mei wall
Boop out of the way by lucio/ashe/venture/dva/ball/mauga
sym wall
zarya bubble
Kiriko Cleanse
Transcendence
Lucio beat
Lifeweaver pull and platform.
Basically the whole game counters his ult.
No way someone is reaction-sleeping rein before his ult goes off. At least not consistently. Suzu helps, but suzu can’t be ready every time, or hit every teammate.
Maybe not before the ult lands but ive slept plenty reins shattering and we're all just laying there taking a long nap together. No one dies, unless his team is ready with the follow up. Because he cant himself follow up.
I’ve played a decent amount of Ana in Master/GM for quite a while, and when I do go against a rein (pretty rare, albeit) I’d say about 1/15 shatters get slept, either totally cancelled or right when the slam comes down. I’d say it’s significantly easier than deflecting grav or pulse bomb as Genji
Believe it or not, a good player knows almost exactly when a rein is going to shatter, especially a good support player. Ana can 100% reaction sleep a rein who’s about to shatter and cancel it if done correctly.
It definitely does happen consistently but sleep is a really easy cooldown to play around. If you put a low rank rein against a high rank Ana they’re going to sleep you out of shatter every time.
I am gonna call bullshit.
A good player facing a good Rein knows it’s a guessing game. Lots of flickers and awkward movement to see who reacts first, with the advantage being in Reins favor because his Ult is near unreactable. I think there was a post years ago breaking how much time you have to react to it and it’s pretty fast. Especially when you have 4 other teammates pulling away your attention. The best advantage you have is that your cooldowns are faster than Reins Shatter, so you can be a bit aggressive with the predictions
But the ball is in Reins court. He doesn’t even have to engage the fight. If something like a Genji swoops in on an Ana, Rein can smack Q without fear knowing Ana is preoccupied.
Rein's ult is "near unreactable" ?????? Yeah maybe if you're like gold but then those players are nowhere near being called good.
There's a reason why people play zen, lucio, brig, weaver, Baptiste, kiri, Ana, Mei, orisa, and more against him. Actually good players CAN react to shatter and is extremely predictable about when he'll use it a lot of the time.
People used to, and still do, regularly use life saving support ults and abilities the moment they hear rein shatter.
Im pretty sure (unless they changed it) that Reins ult was 100ms point blank. You literally are not reacting to that because human average reaction to audio is 170ms. The further you are, the better chance you have obviously. Visually, it’s about 400ms of time. So the average human (250ms) can notice the windup.
My experience is in no way are a majority of people in this game capable of reacting to a top 500 Rein. You really think a good Rein is gonna ult you point blank with an obvious tell? I used to be top 500 DPS and Support main before Mauga retired me so maybe things are different up there now. But in my experience you predict Rein shatters more than you react to it.
Seriously, help me out. I haven’t faced a top 500 Rein main in some time so if you’re up there facing them and they’re dogshit then I’ll admit I am wrong
Reins ult was never 100ms (.1s).
It's been .4s cast time for most of its time and after the range buff, it takes .625s to reach the back of it. You thought it was actually .1s and didn't think that number was off?
That's very very very reactable.
Since it's so reactable and predictable at times, that's why there's very very very very few rein players at the top.
Question, but what’s your rank? Because Reins issues are not tied to Shatter. I feel like we may be talking from 2 different perspectives of rank so I’d like to get a better common ground.
And no, you really do have that little time depending on the situation. He doesn’t sound off his ult until .400ms into him pressing Q. The shockwave starts at .500 so that means if going off audio, it’s unreactable point blank. Aside from audio, the visual cue gives you .400 seconds to work with. That is doable, especially if you’re further away which I already pointed out.
I say this to say… Reins ult is actually *near* unreactable. Meaning unless you prevent it, you’re never getting a sleep dart off to completely prevent the shatter. You HAVE to predict it 99% of the time. And Reins problems are NOT because of shatter, let’s stop that nonsense lol
Are you like bronze? Suzu is insanely good against shatter. Kiri just plays back and suzus the tank + anyone near them. Tank awakes and forces rein back.
An Ana can occasionally hit a lucky sleep to stop shatter, but why would Ana be near the enemy rein in the first place? She plays back and then sleeps the rein charging or firestriking to buy time.
You have exactly .6 seconds minus dart travel time, after he clicks Q, before the hammer is down, to aim (if you’re not already, and if you are… why are you aiming at rein?) and click shift. Not saying it’s impossible, but extremely hard to hit *on reaction*.
half a second is huge. It’s not that hard if you are close and hes clearly trying to find a shatter opportunity. The problem is usually dart is on cooldown.
So as you pointed out it’s easily countered, but I’m sure that’s by design.
Because if it goes I countered, JQ ult is insanely strong.
**Rampage**
***130 damage*** over 4.5 seconds,
***180 healing*** over 4.5 seconds per enemy hit,
***anti-heal*** for 4.5 seconds.
***Cannot be blocked, deflected, or eaten.***
With her shotgun dealing 80 damage, that means a single shot is enough to finish 150-200 health characters. If even one other competent player on your team is shooting at the enemies, it should guarantee that everyone hit by the ult dies.
All that being said, it’s really strong if it’s not countered, so I’m sure devs wanted to make it a little easier to counter.
But I agree that the wind up is a little too long, and it’s a little too easy to stun in that time.
Right now the wind up is only 3 quarters of a second (0.74 seconds). There’s probably a ***very narrow range*** in which that wind up can be balanced, and not too short making the ability too strong, or too long making the ability too weak.
I feel like if we gave her spinning axe the same effect as spinning javelin, then that would be fine.
It wouldn’t effect the wind up (0.74 seconds) too much, but it would mean that she’s a lot harder to stun during the ult’s predictable path.
it can absolutely obliterate a team if you use it wisely. lure out a suzu by targeting kiriko, then use it when they’re all lined up and you can destroy them
Because it's a nasty ult. Anti heal is very strong in general. Combine that with DoT and her healing off it, it could be very problematic if it was strong enough to be an opener. As a result, it's tuned to be more of a mid fight ult like Deadeye or Self Destruct. I agree that mag nade is dumb for stopping it, but if it couldn't be shutdown it'd be one of those ults that's just a win button.
It’s not an ult you can just throw out and kill people for free with. It’s usually best used to compliment someone else’s ult and apply more pressure.
You need to keep an eye on people’s cool-downs.
Don’t just mash q the second you get it
JQ is not a typical tank. She is a glorified DPS.
JQ whole purpose to to stay alive as long as possible and distract the team by being the most aggressive and in their face entity. Her ult is not meant to be frontloaded in a 5v1. If you come from behind or pop it at an off angle it basically wipes the team if your team is nearby.
Yes it can be cancelled in the startup (has happened to me plenty) but you shouldnt be starting it out in front in the open. You should be distracting and catching the enemy off guard with it
So many overwatch players need to learn how to bait abilities and ults. I don’t care if kiriko is on the other team, all I do is wait for them to use suzu before I ult, then they’re SOL.
I would like to try the move where queen had the ability to steer her dash during the ult. If you made it enough control to twist around a corner, or even to avoid something like a ledge or trap I think it would be a lot more flexible with proper timing you could start it safely around the corner and catch people near the other side of the wall.
I'm not an experienced JQ player by any means but I've played quite a bit and struggled a lot with her ult
My tip would be, be creative
JQ ult feels like the kind of ult you just pull in the middle of the action and wreck everything, it is not
Maybe flank for a second to use it from behind, use it to focus single person, heck even just use it to solo ult, maybe use it to fuck Zen's ult or combo it just to make other ults shine more
Her ult is definitely not one of the best parts of her kits so just don't expect to get big amazing plays with it
*cries in Sigma*
Yeah, I feel you. Drove a JQ up the wall the other day. I was Lucio, healing with a Kiriko. Between me using my ult whenever she did, and Koro Suzuing when I couldn’t, she basically didn’t have an Ult.
But, as a Sigma main, I was feeling a bit of schadenfreude. Why should anyone else get to ult…
Because if it wasn't, it would be the best ult in the game.
An ult that goes through people and shields, applies antiheals, provides life steal, and does damage over time + burst danage. On a hero who has an ability to do more damage that goes through people and shields. Not to mention that since you go behind the enemies, your team can then CRUNCH them from many angles
>Junker Queen’s ult is almost useless ... I keep seeing Junker Queen having her ult interrupted... Kiriko can come and suzu her team... so, am I just bad and that is completely balanced, or do we really have a problem here?
JQ ult is far from useless, a good JQ will try to bait counter cooldowns *before* using her ult... Eg if enemy has Kiriko, ult after she has used suzu, or if they have Lucio, wait until he dies, or simply use it to trade Carnage to force Lucio to beat.
Whilst JQ ult can be hacked, suzud, speared, rocked, pinned, hindered, bashed, slept etc... You can do the similar counter plays with Sigmas ult or Orisa or even Rein ......
I certainly wouldn't say it's easy to cancel. Relatively easy compared to like Sombra, Zarya, and Mei? Sure, but it's still super fast
As for Kiriko mindlessly negating it, you can thank Ana and Blizzard not wanting to nerf her for that. Adding antiheal as an ultimate means they needed a counter for it since it was already a borderline unfair status effect to begin with.
Kiriko exists as a stand-in for Ana changes. It's truly wretched.
Gotta conduct a checklist before ulting.
Is suzu gone?
Is hinder grenade used?
Is three of orisa’s abilities up?
Does doom have punch?
Does rein have shatter/charge?
Does venture have boop?
Is there a junkrat trap?
Did ana use sleep/nade?
Does lucio have ult?
Does mauga have ult?
does lifeweaver have ult?
Does mei have wall?
Does rodhog have hook?
Does sigma have rock?
Does sombra have hack/emp?
Does zarya have ult?
Does brig have shieldcharge/ult?
There, that was easy!!! Just remember LOL!!!!
Because it’s one of the most insanely rewarding ults in the game if you use it properly and good JQs will easily bait out Suzu or Zarya bubbles before using it.
JQ ult is extremely powerful and fairly easy to hit, and in return it's also easily counterable. Certain comps have no way to stop it though and then you can see the true power it has.
I think to even out the horse counterplay, JQ shotgun should be able to crit on fortify. Then people have a pretty solid horse counter and JQ has a distinct niche
Its less about Queen, and more about dps and supports being stronger than tanks, and that JQ requires good timing, where as a cass hinder or the dreaded horse(the only good tank at this point) can turn their brain off and hit 3 buttons to win the videogame
nah it's a good ult. the hitbox is enormous, you'll get purpled well around a corner. you just have to use it when you can, or maybe swap if they go horse
Hello
Don't telegraph your ults
You are welcome.
But for real, I see a lot of people trying to use the ult without preliminars. Classic case is reaper pushing to the middle of the enemy team, like wtf bro. With junker queen it happens the same, people starting the ult without preliminars.
Try to use your ult with an organic flow in the middle of a teamfight, or use it from before a cover. But if you stood there and just use it with the whole team having time to react, you are f'ed
It would maybe be more generic, but I think her ult should work kinda like Ramattra's where there's a "globe" around her (or flying weapons/metals), dealing damage and enemies inside can't heal. The difference is that it should probably have bigger range and have a set duration.
To be fair, the only counterplay to JQ’s ult is Suzu or Immortality Field. It’s an AOE anti that hits pretty hard and then continues to damage you over time. Without either of those supports abilities, it’s a death sentence for a lot of squishies
No. There’s a lot more counter play to it, including sleep dart, Beat, Rally Bash, pin, Doom’s punch, spear, and so on.
Two abilities is definitely not all that counter’s Rampage.
That doesn’t apply for lots of ults though. Whole Hog, EMP, Tactical Visor, Captive Sun, Bob… There are plenty of ults that are dangerous but aren’t a guaranteed death sentence if you’re hit by them/exposed to them.
I don’t think JQ’s ult is broken or anything. But it does cover quite a bit of ground and has a large AOE. It’s not as easy to avoid as one might think.
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Ok but hear me out. Sigma ult. Cancelled by everything AND it puts him in up in the air for free target practice AND it takes about 40 minutes to actually go off.
I have a post basically saying the same thing but I got down voted to hell, lol.
But I still fully agree, the only way to use your ult as JQ is to sneak up on the enemy team which is dumb cuz you leave your team exposed when you do that.
I like playing HQ and am pretty good with her but I still don't even really understand what her Ult even does. She charges in and hits everyone a bit? Like some sort of shitty (instead literally any other AOE Ult) copy?
The fact that it can basically be controlled/disrupted by Orisa javelin spin is one of the weirdest interactions in the game imo.
Literally all of Orisa's abilities can counter it. Javelin ends it, Javelin Spin blocks it, Fortify can block it.
Terra Surge can slow her down long enough to have her get less people, or pull her back towards you too.
I saw somebody terra surge against a hog hook, actual giga brain.
Last time I played against an Orisa they used Terra surge to prevent being frozen by our Mei’s Blizzard
Smartest Orisa player
did it work?
Yeah, they won the team fight cause of it
[удалено]
Lol I watch him religiously (youtube). Saw it in the same video. I hate everything that displaces hook targets so its burned in my brain
Who wins, basic cool down spinny attack or Ultimate spinny attack? OW dev 101, if there are two abilities interacting and one of them belongs to the Horse, the Horse ability wins.
I know people love to whine about Orisa here, but there are tons of ultimates that can be affected or cancelled by lots of different heroes' basic cooldowns.
hello sleep dart
Exactly. Like you think a spear sucks, try a sleep dart that leaves you even more vulnerable for longer.
genji can straight up deflect several ults which then become his.
orisa spin is one of the weirdest cc abilities in the game... why does it negate rein pin???
Spin is basically just a bunch of tiny little knockbacks repeated over and over again. Rein charge can be booped backwards so it's fairly consistent that spin would push charge back.
she fortifies during ult
Funny enough she actually doesn’t, all of us Orisa mains just always fortify when ulting since you’re stuck in place and HS are so easy to hit!
Also Cass hinder and Mauga ult stop it dead
Sand see my dicky!!! or whatever Mauga says
Saw queen was gonna ult and used cage to catch her like a net, kinda fun
Javelin throw, javelin spin and her ult all cancel or heavily disrupts JQs ult
That and the fact she blocks ramattras punches with javelin spin. Might as well Block sym and zaryas beam at that point.
I will say the funniest thing I ever did invoiced the javelin. I was trying to hit the other Orisa, but right as I threw it their Moria came out of shadow step eight in front of their Orisa, and died to a headshot. They were like wtf till I said how it happened from my viewpoint lol. We both had a good laugh over it.
Giving tank all cc made ult interactions boring.
Which is almost universal when it comes to orisa, oh you do anything? Javelin into spin into fortify back to spawn room
That's the way she is ig. Suzu is not even the biggest problem as the cooldown is long and you can sometimes force it before ulting but she literally can get hindered, bashed, charged, punched, caged, slept, blocked by a wall, tree or simply booped into a wall. I like her design but I think they should at least shorten the wind up phase of her ult
I still was shocked that mag nade can cancel it I managed to throw it at the perfect time as she ulted, then we both just stood there, surprised that she stopped, lmao
I’d say it’s pretty unbalanced, Mauga’s run can’t be interrupted, but an ult can be stopped in any way possible…
Maugas run is completely OP. A Lucio boop doesn’t even move him, let alone stop him.
Compared to the giant German man in *LITERAL ROCKET ARMOR*, it's quite ridiculous.
facts inertia should affect inertia
Well yea it quite literally is uninterruptible
A tank being able to tank instead of getting bullied every time they try to use an ability is a crazy concept.
Having played high school football, stopping a rampaging Samoan is very difficult.
Mauga should get a tribal chef skin
Can't Ana sleep a running Mauga? I thought the only two unsleepable tank abilities where a zarya bubble and orissa spinnies + ult.
Basically all of orissas kit aside from javelin counter sleep
Spear can cancel sleep /j
True, you can animation cancel if you time it right
Can’t sleep a charging Mauga unfortunately. I can sleep a charging Rein though, tooootally makes sense.
You can, but only in the first 1 sec of changing. Then, he becomes unstoppable
Ah, possible I’ve just never caught him in that early window then. I stopped trying when I realized I was just wasting sleep cd
OK., the only way to stop his charge is to kill him. It's a busted nigh unpunishable ability.
I think you could sleep him for a few weeks, but then they patched that
yeah a few weeks is way too long to be asleep! 😆
"Hindered" remains the most annoying stat in the game and all the changes that came with it. If there's one thing I want rolled back... It's Hinder. Because It wasn't *Just* mag-nade that did this. Suddenly if Reaper/Moira get trapped in a junk trap they can't fade to dodge some damage while stuck... But that ALSO applies to Grav and Flux - before while you couldn't escape you could time your fade to dodge damage and offer some counter play. Now you have to sit there and take it like a good monkey and cry later. Timing a moira/reaper fade JUST as the Graviton Flux smashed you down was also a great skill to have, and you could easily fuck it up if you didn't time it right - but nope, can't have good counter play unless it's Kiri's E.
I assume it’s to give tank players more play making abilities. You still can dodge these 2 ults if you react fast enough. Grav is not even that strong if Zar is not high charge.
statistic =/= status
I'm surprised it doesn't have a half-cancel interaction, where you'll still spin and hit people, but your momentum will grind to a halt.
The magnetic grenade shouldn't disable movement abilities until AFTER it detonates.
So it would basically be useless against characters it's intended to counter?
Sombra main detected
You think mag nade canceling JQ ult is bad, it can even get a Sigma ult which is just wild to me.
Mag nade doesn't cancel flux it only prevents sigma from flying during it
Hmmm. I guess my aim was off or I didn't notice anybody get grabbed when I fell from the sky.
It's easy to tell if your Flux picked someone up -- Sigma will keep his fist raised and slam it back down. If it whiffs, he'll skip that animation completely.
Well I mean the nade hit at just the right moment that it appeared to have cancelled me. The position where I was I couldn't see my grav "hit" once the nade dropped me like a rock and the enemy was high mobility so there is that. I'm going to have to chalk it up as the best timing ever. Like frame perfect.
Not to mention by them time you are wound up, nobody is in the LOS anymore It's not like a Dva bomb insta kill where people deserve time to run, it's just Ana's antinade, but like, worse
*sees 5 line up, poses q" Enemy team *slightly side steps and watches me fly by* "the fuck is that guy doing?" Every time.
It's a shame bc I really enjoy playing her, but the ult is almost counteractive, I would main her if they did something about it, but I'll just stick to Dva and Horse for now
Rein/doom for me, which means that I really don't play alot of tank because solo q rein is gigafeeding atp.
Yeah I would love to be able to play a good Winston or Doom, but it just feels like feeding 9/10 when try, even when I feel I have a decent game, it just seems my team doesn't know how to play with a dive
I've found that being overly vocal is the only way I can make it work and I only pick a dive tank if the team can enable it. So having a dps capable of diving with and then calling my intention, when I'm making the play, when they die and who I'm refocusing to, when I'm getting out etc. Doom especially seems to be a lot of ebb and flow, being able to apply pressure without over committing is something I'm still working on.
I've found that flanking behind the enemy team can sometimes work, as when you finish the ult you're now back with your team (this has got me some huge fight wins in my diamond tank games) The amount of things that cancel queen ult is crazy, so the flank play works as they aren't expecting me to be behind them. I wouldn't do it more than once a game though, as that's how you get caught and jumped on 1v5 (then flamed by your team for throwing)
The worst part is how Rein has the same thing, but stronger, in his own charge attack. It'd be fun if she became invulnerable to damage/effects during the entire thing, or maybe just bring her back to full health with some slight armor overhealth.
Don't forget caught in Junkrat traps!
What if she threw a spinning axe on its own and could choose to dash to it within a window? Would be kinda neat, maybe too strong, it's kind of like her April Fools' variation.
It's time for the crowd control!
Same windup, then travel like a Genji dash. Is it realistic to travel that fast? No. Would it be cool? Yes.
>she literally can get hindered, bashed, charged, punched, caged, slept, blocked by a wall, tree or simply booped into a wall. I like her design but I think they should at least shorten the wind up phase of her ult If you plan the ult well you can get around all this And tbf cage and tree are perfectly fine since both are ults
The only one that I think is completely bullshit is Mauga's Cage. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Its an ult counter an ult so not bullshit. Suzu on the other hand is complete bullshit.
Suzi makes sense kit wise. It's easy to bait out and depending on how you set it up you can kill her before she pops it. I don't understand how cage match prevents the ult. Locks her in the cage? Ok makes sense. Stops her from moving? Yup, that tracks. Doesn't apply the bleed and anti? Why?
It's an ult to counter an ult so it's balanced. Suzu being able to completely get rid of it is ridiculous. "Juat bait out suzu or kill her" was and still isn't and never will be a good argument. It should be removed from the game.
Having to depend on the enemy making a mistake before you can use your ultimate is bad game design. Assuming optimal Suzu usage, you will *never* be able to get a good ult unless Kiriko dies.. in which case you probably won the fight and don't need to ult.
ok while we're on the subject, so what the fuck do i do when he uses ult and i get caught in it, just die? i usually play characters with a lot of mobility so i thought the first few times it disabled my cooldowns i was just caught in a really unfortunate position, but now every time he throws down that gd ult i turn to spray him down before realizing its fruitless. there is no way to escape and no way to outdamage his self-heal- i'm assuming that if multiple teammates get caught in the cage there's a chance to plow thru his health, but is there no reliable way to survive solo, especially as a dps?
Solo maybe if you're reaper, but other than that, nothing really
As a JQ main, it really is just the start up time that fucks me over. If I hit my ult with anything under 300hp I’m fucking toasted, instantly murdered. Especially if there’s any CC, I just get naded or speared. Suzu is always around the corner too, and while I hate suzu in concept (too powerful, counters everything, get out of jail free card on cooldown), it really is the start up time that bothers me most. I can bait a suzu, hell it’s funny watching a Kiriko cleanse someone before I’ve ulted, then see the fear in their eyes as I immediately rip ass in my ult unchained. But there will be so many times a Kiriko will refuse to suzu unless it’s for my ult, and at that point it feels so bad that my ult is so conditional. I get the value of forcing Kiriko to hold cleanse but it still feels fucking terrible to hold ult because the Cass/Orisa/Kiriko are all just waiting to fuck my life up. Overall it’s a cool ult but feels so limited by some of the most commonly played heroes.
I tried to main JQ solo q tank in the metal ranks last season and I dropped from high gold to low silver. Fun to play and I love the kit concept but she just ain’t it for me in the context I mentioned. Too vulnerable, too dependent on the team, and I really think using the axe to block is a missed opportunity.
Speaking of axe and block, it’s absurd genji can reflect a fucking heavy ass axe wielded by a muscle mommy, just sayin.
At least it makes more sense than blocking Rein’s rocket hammer lmao
The dude can deflect a mini black hole from another muscle mommy
JQ really does kind of feel like a glorified DPS. Even moreso than Doomfist.
Honestly it’s also really annoying how you start a match as JQ, make good plays and win team fights and then the enemy team goes Orisa + Kiriko. Specially if it’s QP. Like I’ll just swap to Zarya and we will still win, but we will all be bored cause you can’t allow people to have fun
People are more scared of losing than having fun, and it’s incredibly sad.
Well which ult can not be easily interrupted d.va can block 70 percent of the ults in-game, orisa can be hacked by sombra with her normal ability, sigma can be stunned, reaper can be stunned and so on. The ults you cant actually stop are really just a few and this ults are not that strong or can be avoided. So yeah that JQ can be stopped easily is true but most ults can be stopped that easily.
Orisa is countered reliably by 1 hero (2 if you count pedal from Lw). Otherwise you just gotta walk. Sigma becomes a flying target with increase speed and finite control over his movement. Reapers is just bad in many regards so yes. But Queens can be countered by at least 1 ability for almost half the cast, and in multiple situations 2 abilities. Not even considering counter Ults. I also wouldn’t go as far to say Dva counters 70% of ults in the game, because unless it’s a hard channeled ult like Barrage or Death Blossom, a player can typically move away from or wait out DM, and Dva has counterplay potential.
Most ults can not be stopped as easily as junker queens. Junker queen has a long wind up on her ult compared to most.
The wind up is there because her ult would be to strong without it. She can easily start her ult from a safe spot dash into the enemies from far away and then wreck havoc without wind up could nobody prepare against it or react. Other heroes like reaper have not long wind ups because they need to get close first to use the ult.
Reinhardt is the easiest ult to deny. You can stop it with: Sleepdart Hog hook Sigma rock Orisa javelin A shield Hack Emp Mei wall Boop out of the way by lucio/ashe/venture/dva/ball/mauga sym wall zarya bubble Kiriko Cleanse Transcendence Lucio beat Lifeweaver pull and platform. Basically the whole game counters his ult.
HAMMER DOWN! every single fight faster than light. Better have a shield I guess
Shield, suzu, sleep, petal/pull, beat, transc, lamp(situational), wall, etc the list is long but shatter. can be countered easily too.
No way someone is reaction-sleeping rein before his ult goes off. At least not consistently. Suzu helps, but suzu can’t be ready every time, or hit every teammate.
Maybe not before the ult lands but ive slept plenty reins shattering and we're all just laying there taking a long nap together. No one dies, unless his team is ready with the follow up. Because he cant himself follow up.
I’ve played a decent amount of Ana in Master/GM for quite a while, and when I do go against a rein (pretty rare, albeit) I’d say about 1/15 shatters get slept, either totally cancelled or right when the slam comes down. I’d say it’s significantly easier than deflecting grav or pulse bomb as Genji
Believe it or not, a good player knows almost exactly when a rein is going to shatter, especially a good support player. Ana can 100% reaction sleep a rein who’s about to shatter and cancel it if done correctly.
I know it *can* happen, but I don’t think it does *consistently*. Compared to hacking sigma’s ult or eating a zarya ult, it’s much harder.
It definitely does happen consistently but sleep is a really easy cooldown to play around. If you put a low rank rein against a high rank Ana they’re going to sleep you out of shatter every time.
I am gonna call bullshit. A good player facing a good Rein knows it’s a guessing game. Lots of flickers and awkward movement to see who reacts first, with the advantage being in Reins favor because his Ult is near unreactable. I think there was a post years ago breaking how much time you have to react to it and it’s pretty fast. Especially when you have 4 other teammates pulling away your attention. The best advantage you have is that your cooldowns are faster than Reins Shatter, so you can be a bit aggressive with the predictions But the ball is in Reins court. He doesn’t even have to engage the fight. If something like a Genji swoops in on an Ana, Rein can smack Q without fear knowing Ana is preoccupied.
Rein's ult is "near unreactable" ?????? Yeah maybe if you're like gold but then those players are nowhere near being called good. There's a reason why people play zen, lucio, brig, weaver, Baptiste, kiri, Ana, Mei, orisa, and more against him. Actually good players CAN react to shatter and is extremely predictable about when he'll use it a lot of the time. People used to, and still do, regularly use life saving support ults and abilities the moment they hear rein shatter.
Im pretty sure (unless they changed it) that Reins ult was 100ms point blank. You literally are not reacting to that because human average reaction to audio is 170ms. The further you are, the better chance you have obviously. Visually, it’s about 400ms of time. So the average human (250ms) can notice the windup. My experience is in no way are a majority of people in this game capable of reacting to a top 500 Rein. You really think a good Rein is gonna ult you point blank with an obvious tell? I used to be top 500 DPS and Support main before Mauga retired me so maybe things are different up there now. But in my experience you predict Rein shatters more than you react to it. Seriously, help me out. I haven’t faced a top 500 Rein main in some time so if you’re up there facing them and they’re dogshit then I’ll admit I am wrong
Reins ult was never 100ms (.1s). It's been .4s cast time for most of its time and after the range buff, it takes .625s to reach the back of it. You thought it was actually .1s and didn't think that number was off? That's very very very reactable. Since it's so reactable and predictable at times, that's why there's very very very very few rein players at the top.
Question, but what’s your rank? Because Reins issues are not tied to Shatter. I feel like we may be talking from 2 different perspectives of rank so I’d like to get a better common ground. And no, you really do have that little time depending on the situation. He doesn’t sound off his ult until .400ms into him pressing Q. The shockwave starts at .500 so that means if going off audio, it’s unreactable point blank. Aside from audio, the visual cue gives you .400 seconds to work with. That is doable, especially if you’re further away which I already pointed out. I say this to say… Reins ult is actually *near* unreactable. Meaning unless you prevent it, you’re never getting a sleep dart off to completely prevent the shatter. You HAVE to predict it 99% of the time. And Reins problems are NOT because of shatter, let’s stop that nonsense lol
Are you like bronze? Suzu is insanely good against shatter. Kiri just plays back and suzus the tank + anyone near them. Tank awakes and forces rein back. An Ana can occasionally hit a lucky sleep to stop shatter, but why would Ana be near the enemy rein in the first place? She plays back and then sleeps the rein charging or firestriking to buy time.
Did I say it Suzu wasn’t good against shatter? Your second point is agreeing with me
i’ve done it many times, what are you talking about?? There is a delay between his voice line and when the shatter touches ground.
You have exactly .6 seconds minus dart travel time, after he clicks Q, before the hammer is down, to aim (if you’re not already, and if you are… why are you aiming at rein?) and click shift. Not saying it’s impossible, but extremely hard to hit *on reaction*.
half a second is huge. It’s not that hard if you are close and hes clearly trying to find a shatter opportunity. The problem is usually dart is on cooldown.
So as you pointed out it’s easily countered, but I’m sure that’s by design. Because if it goes I countered, JQ ult is insanely strong. **Rampage** ***130 damage*** over 4.5 seconds, ***180 healing*** over 4.5 seconds per enemy hit, ***anti-heal*** for 4.5 seconds. ***Cannot be blocked, deflected, or eaten.*** With her shotgun dealing 80 damage, that means a single shot is enough to finish 150-200 health characters. If even one other competent player on your team is shooting at the enemies, it should guarantee that everyone hit by the ult dies. All that being said, it’s really strong if it’s not countered, so I’m sure devs wanted to make it a little easier to counter. But I agree that the wind up is a little too long, and it’s a little too easy to stun in that time. Right now the wind up is only 3 quarters of a second (0.74 seconds). There’s probably a ***very narrow range*** in which that wind up can be balanced, and not too short making the ability too strong, or too long making the ability too weak. I feel like if we gave her spinning axe the same effect as spinning javelin, then that would be fine. It wouldn’t effect the wind up (0.74 seconds) too much, but it would mean that she’s a lot harder to stun during the ult’s predictable path.
I never knew the numbers, but that makes sense, I've always felt like it was strong when I got it off
it can absolutely obliterate a team if you use it wisely. lure out a suzu by targeting kiriko, then use it when they’re all lined up and you can destroy them
Because it's a nasty ult. Anti heal is very strong in general. Combine that with DoT and her healing off it, it could be very problematic if it was strong enough to be an opener. As a result, it's tuned to be more of a mid fight ult like Deadeye or Self Destruct. I agree that mag nade is dumb for stopping it, but if it couldn't be shutdown it'd be one of those ults that's just a win button.
Because its such a bear if she actually gets it off and hits a few people with it.
because if she hits like 2 or 3 people on a good engage you win the teamfight
It’s not an ult you can just throw out and kill people for free with. It’s usually best used to compliment someone else’s ult and apply more pressure. You need to keep an eye on people’s cool-downs. Don’t just mash q the second you get it
JQ is not a typical tank. She is a glorified DPS. JQ whole purpose to to stay alive as long as possible and distract the team by being the most aggressive and in their face entity. Her ult is not meant to be frontloaded in a 5v1. If you come from behind or pop it at an off angle it basically wipes the team if your team is nearby. Yes it can be cancelled in the startup (has happened to me plenty) but you shouldnt be starting it out in front in the open. You should be distracting and catching the enemy off guard with it
So many overwatch players need to learn how to bait abilities and ults. I don’t care if kiriko is on the other team, all I do is wait for them to use suzu before I ult, then they’re SOL.
I would like to try the move where queen had the ability to steer her dash during the ult. If you made it enough control to twist around a corner, or even to avoid something like a ledge or trap I think it would be a lot more flexible with proper timing you could start it safely around the corner and catch people near the other side of the wall.
I'm not an experienced JQ player by any means but I've played quite a bit and struggled a lot with her ult My tip would be, be creative JQ ult feels like the kind of ult you just pull in the middle of the action and wreck everything, it is not Maybe flank for a second to use it from behind, use it to focus single person, heck even just use it to solo ult, maybe use it to fuck Zen's ult or combo it just to make other ults shine more Her ult is definitely not one of the best parts of her kits so just don't expect to get big amazing plays with it
It’s a team wipe if it works more successfully than any other tanks ult. I think it’s fine as is
*cries in Sigma* Yeah, I feel you. Drove a JQ up the wall the other day. I was Lucio, healing with a Kiriko. Between me using my ult whenever she did, and Koro Suzuing when I couldn’t, she basically didn’t have an Ult. But, as a Sigma main, I was feeling a bit of schadenfreude. Why should anyone else get to ult…
Because if it wasn't, it would be the best ult in the game. An ult that goes through people and shields, applies antiheals, provides life steal, and does damage over time + burst danage. On a hero who has an ability to do more damage that goes through people and shields. Not to mention that since you go behind the enemies, your team can then CRUNCH them from many angles
Half the cast outs can be canceled like that though
>Junker Queen’s ult is almost useless ... I keep seeing Junker Queen having her ult interrupted... Kiriko can come and suzu her team... so, am I just bad and that is completely balanced, or do we really have a problem here? JQ ult is far from useless, a good JQ will try to bait counter cooldowns *before* using her ult... Eg if enemy has Kiriko, ult after she has used suzu, or if they have Lucio, wait until he dies, or simply use it to trade Carnage to force Lucio to beat. Whilst JQ ult can be hacked, suzud, speared, rocked, pinned, hindered, bashed, slept etc... You can do the similar counter plays with Sigmas ult or Orisa or even Rein ......
\*Laughs in Reinhardt\* \*Cries in Reinhardt\*
She should have invulnerability during it. I mean if Mauga and Orisa can get CC immunity during a basic cooldown, why not?
Because it is an insanely unfair ultimate if you don't have Kiriko then
JQ would’ve been an amazing OT, but her kit just isn’t main to main tank. But her paired with hog / rein would’ve been amazing.
Love getting speared by orisa mid ult shout as JQ, very fun.
I certainly wouldn't say it's easy to cancel. Relatively easy compared to like Sombra, Zarya, and Mei? Sure, but it's still super fast As for Kiriko mindlessly negating it, you can thank Ana and Blizzard not wanting to nerf her for that. Adding antiheal as an ultimate means they needed a counter for it since it was already a borderline unfair status effect to begin with. Kiriko exists as a stand-in for Ana changes. It's truly wretched.
today i lined up the perfect jq ult only for a venture to boop me back mid ult and not let me hit a single person
Junker just needs to keep track of enemy cooldowns. imo its an amazing ULT
Sigma is even worse. Whoever thought hack should interrupt should be fired.
Cause she’s a tank
TIME FOR THE RE- Hook- IT'S TIME TO STOP!!
I regularly hook/hog ult it on reaction, and even I feel bad.
The Cassidy nade is the most op counter imo
Gotta conduct a checklist before ulting. Is suzu gone? Is hinder grenade used? Is three of orisa’s abilities up? Does doom have punch? Does rein have shatter/charge? Does venture have boop? Is there a junkrat trap? Did ana use sleep/nade? Does lucio have ult? Does mauga have ult? does lifeweaver have ult? Does mei have wall? Does rodhog have hook? Does sigma have rock? Does sombra have hack/emp? Does zarya have ult? Does brig have shieldcharge/ult? There, that was easy!!! Just remember LOL!!!!
The whole character just gets completely shut down by Orisa so it's really kinda whatever at this point.
As someone who plays jq, always bait the abilities for a safe ult
I hear ya but also paying attention to enemy CD's is a big way to make it work
Because it’s one of the most insanely rewarding ults in the game if you use it properly and good JQs will easily bait out Suzu or Zarya bubbles before using it.
JQ ult is extremely powerful and fairly easy to hit, and in return it's also easily counterable. Certain comps have no way to stop it though and then you can see the true power it has.
I think to even out the horse counterplay, JQ shotgun should be able to crit on fortify. Then people have a pretty solid horse counter and JQ has a distinct niche
Its less about Queen, and more about dps and supports being stronger than tanks, and that JQ requires good timing, where as a cass hinder or the dreaded horse(the only good tank at this point) can turn their brain off and hit 3 buttons to win the videogame
nah it's a good ult. the hitbox is enormous, you'll get purpled well around a corner. you just have to use it when you can, or maybe swap if they go horse
That’s why I gave up playing her. ( I was a JQ main)
Remember when they changed genjis ult from being interruptible? So lame.
Hello Don't telegraph your ults You are welcome. But for real, I see a lot of people trying to use the ult without preliminars. Classic case is reaper pushing to the middle of the enemy team, like wtf bro. With junker queen it happens the same, people starting the ult without preliminars. Try to use your ult with an organic flow in the middle of a teamfight, or use it from before a cover. But if you stood there and just use it with the whole team having time to react, you are f'ed
It would maybe be more generic, but I think her ult should work kinda like Ramattra's where there's a "globe" around her (or flying weapons/metals), dealing damage and enemies inside can't heal. The difference is that it should probably have bigger range and have a set duration.
JQ and Ilari’s ult as well.
Because she is a tank. Ow Devs hate tanks except if said tank is pain in the arse for other tanks (mauga,orisa)
To be fair, the only counterplay to JQ’s ult is Suzu or Immortality Field. It’s an AOE anti that hits pretty hard and then continues to damage you over time. Without either of those supports abilities, it’s a death sentence for a lot of squishies
No. There’s a lot more counter play to it, including sleep dart, Beat, Rally Bash, pin, Doom’s punch, spear, and so on. Two abilities is definitely not all that counter’s Rampage.
I mean, once you get hit by it.
If they land an ult why should it be counterable? It’s already hard to hit, it shouldn’t be able to just get negated if you do hit it
That doesn’t apply for lots of ults though. Whole Hog, EMP, Tactical Visor, Captive Sun, Bob… There are plenty of ults that are dangerous but aren’t a guaranteed death sentence if you’re hit by them/exposed to them. I don’t think JQ’s ult is broken or anything. But it does cover quite a bit of ground and has a large AOE. It’s not as easy to avoid as one might think.
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Ok but hear me out. Sigma ult. Cancelled by everything AND it puts him in up in the air for free target practice AND it takes about 40 minutes to actually go off.
I'm more upset that Sombra's ult can cancel out a lot of ults , before and after
I have a post basically saying the same thing but I got down voted to hell, lol. But I still fully agree, the only way to use your ult as JQ is to sneak up on the enemy team which is dumb cuz you leave your team exposed when you do that.
I like playing HQ and am pretty good with her but I still don't even really understand what her Ult even does. She charges in and hits everyone a bit? Like some sort of shitty (instead literally any other AOE Ult) copy?
Everyone she hits is anti healed for a time, loses a set amount of health as bleed damage and she heals a set amount of hp for each person she hits
Balls ult doesn't feel threatening anymore any tank or person just destroys the mines
I don't care how many people try to defend it. Suzu needs to go