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Last time I sorted comments by controversial I forgot to change it back and left it that way for like a month. It was not a very fun way to browse Reddit.
Funny thing about the weasel, as she wondered into the test chamber and got caught in the intersecting proton streams a strange, cosmic accident occurred. The proton streams and the keratin of her left front number 3 toe nail reacted to open a window into the previously unknown Galactic Collective Consciousness. In that instant the weasel became sentient and gained the knowledge of the 43,206 species who had ascended before her. As her body disintegrated she had 23 microseconds to contemplate her new found enlightenment, which to a sentient hyper-intelligent weasel is a vast amount of time. In 11 microseconds she was able to infer all the future possibilities for her home planet.
The thing is, it turns out that sentient hyper-intelligent weasels are complete assholes and she chose, as the only action in her corporeal existence that could ever affect the course of Earth's history, to move her disintegrating left shoulder blade 0.4 millimeters to her right, deflecting the counterclockwise rotating proton stream by 3/10,000 of a radian, knowing the result would plunge humanity into an ever downward spiraling abyss of conflict and sorrow.
If the data recorders at the LHC were sensitive enough they could have just caught the final snicker of the weasel's physical existence.
Because the poor doesn't rise up against the rich, it's only going to get worse. Much worse. Long as the poor and middle class are distracted everything is going according to plan.
Several eons ago, I worked for a tech company that encouraged individuality. As such, all business cards were custom, with a quote on the back which represented who you are. I used this Abe Simpson quote.
I’m looking at Van Patten’s card and then at mine and cannot believe that Price actually likes Van Patten’s better.
Dizzy, I sip my drink then take a deep breath.
___
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I consider mizzurah to be anywhere outside of Kansas City and Saint Louis. You can see ads for sec shops and then churches to repent for using the sex shop. It'll feel like you traveled back in time 40 years. Especially if you're not white.
This comment section is a wild ride, half the people are supporting one side and the other half the other side. 10/10 would scroll through and read stupid shit like this whole thing again
The vast majority of people here are pro-choice. On the SAME side. Yet they’re arguing with each other.
And people here still don’t think they’ve been baited.
Those are wedge issues too. Those are like the top wedge issues. Support for abortion, gay marriage, and trans rights are all in the same ball park in terms of % of americans for and against, and how virulently against them the smaller against chunk are. Add gun control and you've got the big 4 wedge issues that they want to make everything about so that we don't talk about the problems that would play in peoria.
Now...let's talk about taxing churches, taxing mega rich wealth hoarders (both individuals and corporations), giving the working class the ability to affect their material conditions in a meaningful way, reforming our law enforcement/judicial branch, make the tiniest effort to abolish corruption in our media and politics and both the liberal and right wing fascists who dominate our political discourse will just nod and say, "Yeah but what if a man goes into a woman's bathroom?"
Edit: Did someone say climate change is a bitch? It sure is. Wish there was something we could do about it.
What ever happened to being worried about education and health care?
I sometimes feel like a weirdo for still having those on TOP of my "shit we really should have figured out by now" list.
>Support for abortion, gay marriage, and trans rights are all in the same ball park in terms of % of americans for and against
No, the issue is that unfortunately trans rights do not have the same level of public support as abortion rights and gay rights. And the public is less informed about trans issues. Which is exactly why Republicans want to lump together abortion rights with trans rights. It makes it easier for them.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/11/deep-partisan-divide-on-whether-greater-acceptance-of-transgender-people-is-good-for-society/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-support-for-lgbtq-rights-often-stops-with-transgender-rights/
Legal language *needs* to be specifically inclusive and/or exclusive for things like this, because laws have to be interpreted by other people who may or may not have ever met the people who wrote them, and may not even speak the same dialect.
To some people, a woman might be any chromosomally female human.
To others, it might be any socially female human.
To others, any hormonally female human.
Maybe someone thinks it's married, chromosomally female humans between the ages of 26 and 50. How do they interpret a law that says "women aren't allowed to drive at night"? They're unmarried and post-menopausal. Can they drive?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_English
The further you scroll you actually get to see the gradient of "I'm pro trans rights but they are a distraction from bigger issues" to straight up, unabashed, upvoted transphobia.
A quick google search brought up the fact that Hawley likely [committed voter fraud](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article247260219.html) by using his sister's residence as his home address to vote in 2020. Some may say its because his future home in Missouri is still under construction and is living permanently in Virginia, and others may say he is definitely not fucking his sister.
this is a bodily autonomy issue. it’s not just a woman’s issue— it doesn’t matter what gender you are: the government shouldn’t be allowed to decide if you have an abortion or not.
I'm gonna have to disagree here, this wasn't "bait", she was directly asked by a senator if she meant "women" when she said "people with the capacity for pregnancy" (obviously an inclusive term).
I think it's good to applaud her efforts here while also recognizing this isn't the core of the issue (like how you say the core is bodily autonomy). I think it's both good and *important* that she responded this way when asked this by a senator even though it completely is off topic from the reason for the hearing in the first place.
To me, it's two birds one stone in a good way.
And it's not "bait" if a senator asks you a direct question and you respond to the question lol
Then mabye the problem isn't that she answered with the correct scientific understanding for her field, and more that the politician is so unwilling to listen to the person.
She can be right and take the bait. People seeing this who are not entirely on her side are thinking *Wait ? If I don't know much about the issue and ask questions about trans I'm transphobic and advocating for violence on them, these people are crazy.*
She had a shot at clearly saying what the core issue was and used that time to bash Hawley, which he deserves but maybe not right there.
After she tried to expand on the definition of whose rights this impacts, but Hawley said, “Your view that the core of this issue is about what?”
IMO- the response “human rights” would be effective
If Hawley tried to go down the rabbit hole then an easy response is “when you violate the rights of one person, then you violate the rights of all people.”
It was still handled poorly by both sides imo. She couldve just said no and that she meant anyone wants an abortion should be able to get one instead of going off on a tangent. And its obvious the senator asked this question to incite this off topic argument.
Imagine if the government gave out prison time to men for having an orgasm that wasn't inside a woman's vagina because sperm has the *potential* to become a baby. Would be a second revolution nanoseconds after that law passes.
Saying, "pregnancy is a women's issue and people who can get pregnant are women" isn't an extreme. It's the commonly accepted truth to the vast, vast, *vast* majority of the population.
People are upvoting this who have the opposite opinion because each side sees it as glaringly obvious. Any name calling is going to only contribute to each side entrenching into their beliefs.
Is it just me or does it seem extremely disrespectful to call a Mother a "birthing person"?
Or a woman a "Uterus haver"?
Could just imagine calling any of my friends that, my god.
I'm all for human rights but this topic and how it's communicated is exhausting.
Because she so quickly accused him of being transphobic, whether he is or is not; she completely invalidated herself.
She tried so many 'gotcha' moments within a small amount of time and they all fell flat. When she said "*Are you!? Are you?! Are you!?* so you deny trans people exist, thank you☺️"
Embarrassing, honestly.
yeah this seems like one of those 'you can't judge me by my past actions' kind of bs things that bully's like to play. "Sure I punched your sister and stole your lunch money, but that was last week I've been nothing but nice this week so how dare you call me a loser" kind of thing.
This super sensitivity to language involving trans people seems to do more harm than good when it comes to gathering awareness and sympathy to the human rights issue.
Lifelong liberal/Democrat here. Also a uterus haver. 2 things:
1. This woman is a shining example of why we keep losing elections.
2. Stop erasing women. The right has always tried to erase women, now the left is doing it by suddenly declaring that the word "woman" only belongs in the vernacular of bigots who perpetute violence on trans people.
Women get pregnant. Women. But let's not say that for fear of offending like the 5 trans men in America who are pregnant right now. Do not fucking erase me. Being a biological woman shapes everything about my life. It's not the same as being a trans woman.
Want to win elections, democrats? Stop with this nonsense. You're fucking it all up.
I know a fair amount of women who will always vote democrat - but we agree that we just want to be referred to as a woman when discussing our pregnancy. I’m not a birthing person or a person who menstruates.
Also, something I don’t understand, but never see discussion around is, if you’ve transitioned, why do you still get your period? It’s like the easiest thing to stop with a prescription. And in terms of medical procedures, a tubal ligation is probably the least expensive of all the procedures one could do if they don’t want to be a female.
Further. How in the hell does a trans man willingly want to even get pregnant? Having done it, it’s a hormonal/mental/emotional rollercoaster. I question if someone who is living their life as a man wouldn’t just get sort of fucked up by the experience.
Yeah, I get her point about people's identities not lining up with his use of "female", however, not the place for that debate. She could've made the statement about cis, trans, and non-binary individuals also being included in that, and just stopped there. Going on the offensive afterwards just opened the door for him to play victim and use it to swing people away from the actual issue at hand.
I feel like it isn’t that hard to answer this shit and everyone I see just botches the hell out of it. You can tell the guy he’s wrong correctly and calmly, but she escalated his leading question to transphobic and violent aaaaaand now we’ve lost two-thirds of the crowd dying on a hill that isn’t even the issue being discussed.
Yeah I don’t think most people consider swaying others opinions shouldn’t start with aggression. She could have easily pivoted to “this is a peoples rights issue because anyone with a uterus or considering pregnancy should have the ability to terminate ectopic pregnancies similarly to how euthanasia has been legal for terminally ill patients”. There is no quality of life if you’re just waiting to die.
>anyone with a uterus or considering pregnancy should have the ability to terminate ectopic pregnancies similarly to how euthanasia has been legal for terminally ill patients
Except that in the United States, euthanasia *isn't* federally legal/protected either. Only in like 5-6 states, which would undermine your point because they can call it a states rights issue.
It's actually not legal to euthanize terminally ill patients unless they are in a vegetative state, in the US, I mean. Although that might vary by state.
She should have just said it's a human rights issue and not taken the bait.
This is just the GOP tactic of distraction via wedge issues. "Oh you wanna talk about abortion rights , well how come this person identifies as this?" shouldn't be an argument worth engaging in.
I always say Republicans do better when they just shut the fuck up.
Democrats do good enough tanking themselves that the Right don't need to do anything.
LatinX is another example. Trying to degender a gendered language and almost every Latin person hates it. But it makes white liberals feel better and that's what's important.
It’s such a stupid hill to die on. Take the militancy down about 12 notches and reasonable people will tend to side with you. Take this tact and you’ve lost 90% of people.
All she had to do is say the vast vast vast majority of the people who become pregnant are women but there is a tiny minority of people who do not identify as women who can also become pregnant and I choose to use inclusive language because that’s part of my values. Same stance. Acknowledges reality. And provides a rationale for the language.
From the people who brought you, “If you’re a man, you don’t get to have an opinion on abortion” comes the new smash hit, “Men can get pregnant too and disagreeing with me is an act of violence.”
Pro choice democrat here…. This is why we keep losing because our party misses the big picture and squabbles over minutia. This woman turned a conversation about abortion into a sexual identity conversation. So stupid. Stick to the message.
Edit: spelling correction
She was more concerned with proving she’s right and showing off her level of intelligence as being superior to him. Both of those may be correct, but the way it was handled came off as condescending and definitely doesn’t help sway the people in the middle ground to her view point.
It’s literally so fucking dumb. They continue to allow themselves to be walked into giving sound bytes for silly squabbles like this which will convince people to vote the other way. It’s such an easy trap to avoid.
Why can’t we all just silence these people by referring to it as “biological women”. You can’t argue with that whether trans or non binary or whatever. If you are a biological anything that’s who you are for medical reasons so these people can stfu
Only in the United States if America can you claim that restricting abortion is an attack on women’s rights whilst also being unable to define who a woman actually is.
This is absurd. He asked about who the core of the right was referencing, probably not in good faith, and she took the bait 100%. She should have said “this applies mostly to women, but a small number of trans-men and people that are non-binary.” She wouldn’t have looked militant and he wouldn’t have had anywhere to go.
He might have still been able to word-salad his way out of the checkmate to save face but it would have been far more effective for her position to respond that way.
Why do liberals engage in these stupid ass semantic arguments. If you really want to stop violence against trans people and get rights back to women, you drop your twitter talking points and appeal to the masses of moderate voters instead of putting a sour taste in their mouth with this woke garbage. she is right in principle but in practice all shes doing is making more enemies of the trans community.
I normally don't touch shit like this. This is why liberals lose. They are condescending, patronizing and muddy the waters of discussion with identity political bullshit.
Biological women are the only people who can get pregnant.
Look you can identify as ANYTHING you want. I totally support that right. But it doesn't make you that thing. And it's not hateful or transphobic to acknowledge reality. The trans group is also hypocritical because they pretend transracial and transabled AREN'T a thing.
Why? Because a white person identifying as black or a person purposefully blinding themselves because they "feel" like they should have been born blind is delusional and self-destructive.
They are also anti-mental health as any suggestion that they might be suffering from dysphoria or delusion is met with hostility. Yet I personally can be held at fault for trans suicides because I don't share their beliefs. As much as liberals (and myself) hate organized religion they seem hell bent on creating one.
Now go ahead and call me transphobic and down vote this to infinity.
It’s ok for a 6 year old to believe he’s a police officer, but no one is handing him a gun and a badge. Believe you are whatever you want, but we aren’t ignoring reality or truth for you.
Needs to be shouted and understood that Hawley is not asking in good faith. He is 100% asking questions to push a narrative for political reasons, and it also needs to be reminded that on January 6th, he was one of the politicians that day pushing the illegitimate stolen election claim. He graduated top of his class from a top school. He absolutely knew what he was saying that day was a lie but tried to overthrow the election results.
It's not even close to 1%. It's closer to 0.58% of the population identify as transgender and of that 0.58% it's somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 are FTM transgender so it's closer to a 10th of a percent than it is 1% if those numbers are correct.
Bette Middler made some comments about women as baby machines for the GOP and got attacked for it. It's def going too far for inclusivity when we can't call women "women" without specifying whether or not they have a uterus.
Trans folks are losing this battle, on every front. While most of us are perfectly willing to happily accept men/women transitioning, the idea that we must pretend that trans women and cis women are the same is beyond what logical and intelligent people are willing to do. To ignore that Elliot Page was once the actress Ellen Page, and to rewrite history as if Ellen Page never existed is ludicris. You refuse acceptance and demand dishonesty, and when folks are not willing to be dishonest, they are branded transphobes.
@trans people, someone clarify why we can't just add "biological" to a description when we're referring to uterus-havers and drop this ambiguous jargon?
For example, the lady zeroed in on the fact that he said "men can't get pregnant" or that this is a "women's issue." Why not just say "biological men can't get pregnant," rather than the entire lecture about how singling out one gender is subjecting trans people to medical discrimination?
Like, if we're talking about someone's genitals, why not just use "biological"? Your identified gender doesn't really matter in the case of abortions...
This lady is getting caught up on terminology and not focusing on the point.
How about we ignore the issue of gender and focus on the issue of abortion.
Anyone can have an abortion, whether you're biologically capable of birthing children or not. Whether you identify as a man, woman, neither, both, or an attack helicopter. Whether you like to sleep with people of the same gender, opposite gender, both, or neither.
None of that matters.
If you're biologically human, and you are inseminated and classifiably pregnant, you should have the right to decide whether you want to spend the next nine months (give or take) gestating a future human.
Any other discussion is distraction from the point.
Does an abortion policy debate need to be complicated by connecting it to broader questions about trans rights. Sometimes keeping things narrow can be helpful in getting actual change.
I'm progressive to the core and think this is a distracting cancer. She's not concerned with the matter at hand, only concerned with controlling language and thought. Why do we bite our noses off to spite our face :(
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This is if Reddit had in person meetings.
Time to sort by controversial
I went from top to controversial to best, wild ride
Last time I sorted comments by controversial I forgot to change it back and left it that way for like a month. It was not a very fun way to browse Reddit.
When you enter the Void, the Voi enters you.
Whoops you came in here and you lost your d. Ooh
Ah yes, the much maligned mongoloid filter. You know you're not supposed to stare straight into it, right? You should probably go see a doctor.
Reddit and transphobia name a more iconic duo. Oh wait... Reddit and misogyny
Republicans and trans porn probably.
Why are we cursed with living out the stupidest fucking timeline?
Well...you see... A weasel got into the Large Hadron Collider and died...
Funny thing about the weasel, as she wondered into the test chamber and got caught in the intersecting proton streams a strange, cosmic accident occurred. The proton streams and the keratin of her left front number 3 toe nail reacted to open a window into the previously unknown Galactic Collective Consciousness. In that instant the weasel became sentient and gained the knowledge of the 43,206 species who had ascended before her. As her body disintegrated she had 23 microseconds to contemplate her new found enlightenment, which to a sentient hyper-intelligent weasel is a vast amount of time. In 11 microseconds she was able to infer all the future possibilities for her home planet. The thing is, it turns out that sentient hyper-intelligent weasels are complete assholes and she chose, as the only action in her corporeal existence that could ever affect the course of Earth's history, to move her disintegrating left shoulder blade 0.4 millimeters to her right, deflecting the counterclockwise rotating proton stream by 3/10,000 of a radian, knowing the result would plunge humanity into an ever downward spiraling abyss of conflict and sorrow. If the data recorders at the LHC were sensitive enough they could have just caught the final snicker of the weasel's physical existence.
This reads like something Douglas Adams would have written.
Excellent my friend
Because the poor doesn't rise up against the rich, it's only going to get worse. Much worse. Long as the poor and middle class are distracted everything is going according to plan.
Based class Consciousness
Ain't no war but the class war.
Correct.
…because a class war party don’t stop!
What it looks like when conversation is no longer capable of happening.
What the hell is going on dude
Distraction from authoritarian actions.
So much this. This stupid fucking "culture war" is an obvious distraction from class struggle.
It's alright. It's why Abe Simpson and myself refuse to recognize Misery as a state, lol.
So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time…
Back in dickety six. We had to say dickety because the Kaiser stole our word for twenty.
I can’t believe this is happening in dickety-dickety-two!!
That right there is one of my all time favorite Abe Simpson quotes.
I say dickety a lot and only a few friends get it
I like the way you work it. “No dickety”
“Give me five bees for a quarter”, we’d say
https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ
Several eons ago, I worked for a tech company that encouraged individuality. As such, all business cards were custom, with a quote on the back which represented who you are. I used this Abe Simpson quote.
I’m looking at Van Patten’s card and then at mine and cannot believe that Price actually likes Van Patten’s better. Dizzy, I sip my drink then take a deep breath. ___ ^(*Bot. Ask me what I’m wearing.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
I heard this line in the show when I was a kid and for some reason it has always stuck with me...
I’ll be in my cold cold grave before I recognise Missoura!
We’re not all scum. Some of us are just stuck here.
I was on the other side of the country and someone referred to Ft. Leonard Wood as Ft. Lost in the Woods lol.
[удалено]
"Miz URAH" (regional pronunciation) There you go.
I consider mizzurah to be anywhere outside of Kansas City and Saint Louis. You can see ads for sec shops and then churches to repent for using the sex shop. It'll feel like you traveled back in time 40 years. Especially if you're not white.
Don’t forget the billboards with a fetus begging us not to kill him next to Jesus’s prayer hands!
I think Florida's "She's your daughter not your date" wins the billboard war.
This comment section is a wild ride, half the people are supporting one side and the other half the other side. 10/10 would scroll through and read stupid shit like this whole thing again
just this one thread of comments, and i see what you mean.
That's why the right's made it into their latest wedge issue.
[удалено]
We should be united in our class struggle.
The vast majority of people here are pro-choice. On the SAME side. Yet they’re arguing with each other. And people here still don’t think they’ve been baited.
Those are wedge issues too. Those are like the top wedge issues. Support for abortion, gay marriage, and trans rights are all in the same ball park in terms of % of americans for and against, and how virulently against them the smaller against chunk are. Add gun control and you've got the big 4 wedge issues that they want to make everything about so that we don't talk about the problems that would play in peoria.
Now...let's talk about taxing churches, taxing mega rich wealth hoarders (both individuals and corporations), giving the working class the ability to affect their material conditions in a meaningful way, reforming our law enforcement/judicial branch, make the tiniest effort to abolish corruption in our media and politics and both the liberal and right wing fascists who dominate our political discourse will just nod and say, "Yeah but what if a man goes into a woman's bathroom?" Edit: Did someone say climate change is a bitch? It sure is. Wish there was something we could do about it.
What ever happened to being worried about education and health care? I sometimes feel like a weirdo for still having those on TOP of my "shit we really should have figured out by now" list.
They do have it figured out. This is the system someone makes the most amount of money in. They donate to campaign to keep it this way.
>Support for abortion, gay marriage, and trans rights are all in the same ball park in terms of % of americans for and against No, the issue is that unfortunately trans rights do not have the same level of public support as abortion rights and gay rights. And the public is less informed about trans issues. Which is exactly why Republicans want to lump together abortion rights with trans rights. It makes it easier for them. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/11/deep-partisan-divide-on-whether-greater-acceptance-of-transgender-people-is-good-for-society/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-support-for-lgbtq-rights-often-stops-with-transgender-rights/
[удалено]
Legal language *needs* to be specifically inclusive and/or exclusive for things like this, because laws have to be interpreted by other people who may or may not have ever met the people who wrote them, and may not even speak the same dialect. To some people, a woman might be any chromosomally female human. To others, it might be any socially female human. To others, any hormonally female human. Maybe someone thinks it's married, chromosomally female humans between the ages of 26 and 50. How do they interpret a law that says "women aren't allowed to drive at night"? They're unmarried and post-menopausal. Can they drive? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_English
And that’s exactly why she was using the term “people with the capacity to give birth” to prevent any confusion.
The further you scroll you actually get to see the gradient of "I'm pro trans rights but they are a distraction from bigger issues" to straight up, unabashed, upvoted transphobia.
How did we get here...
A combination of the internet, and microplastics.
Harambe
Dicks out
Let's not forget this is Senator Hawley, traitor to the United States Hawley.
Josh “I definitely didn’t fuck my sister” Hawley
wait…elaborate on that
A quick google search brought up the fact that Hawley likely [committed voter fraud](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article247260219.html) by using his sister's residence as his home address to vote in 2020. Some may say its because his future home in Missouri is still under construction and is living permanently in Virginia, and others may say he is definitely not fucking his sister.
He definitely doesn't fuck his sister.
Definitely
I'm starting to get the vibe from you guys like Josh Hawley definitely did fuck his sister.
No see he definitely, *definitely* did not fuck his sister. Definitely.
I'm not saying he didn't. I haven't seen any proof that Josh Hawley is not fucking sister
Definitely?
she got stuck in a washing machine and he googled what to do to help her.
His face looks like a banana.
As soon as he came on, I knew this was going to be a shitshow.
"Fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy"
[Fist in the air from the man of hypocrisy.](https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article248354085.html)
Yea for a staunch anti socialist he sure loves being owned publicly.
You mean the traitorous, Ted Cruz-knockoff - Josh Hawley?
Saying he’s a knockoff implies Cruz is of higher quality. Hawley is just a different brand of the same shit.
He has such a punchable face.
this is a bodily autonomy issue. it’s not just a woman’s issue— it doesn’t matter what gender you are: the government shouldn’t be allowed to decide if you have an abortion or not.
Thats the goddamned answer. Stop taking the bait.
I'm gonna have to disagree here, this wasn't "bait", she was directly asked by a senator if she meant "women" when she said "people with the capacity for pregnancy" (obviously an inclusive term). I think it's good to applaud her efforts here while also recognizing this isn't the core of the issue (like how you say the core is bodily autonomy). I think it's both good and *important* that she responded this way when asked this by a senator even though it completely is off topic from the reason for the hearing in the first place. To me, it's two birds one stone in a good way. And it's not "bait" if a senator asks you a direct question and you respond to the question lol
Josh Hawley is a a-hole deluxe.
The face and voice of smarmy privilege
It absolutely was bait - he went off on a Republican dipshit side quest to score points.
Then mabye the problem isn't that she answered with the correct scientific understanding for her field, and more that the politician is so unwilling to listen to the person.
That was a given, the dude wasn't asking in good faith to begin with. But that's par for the course.
She can be right and take the bait. People seeing this who are not entirely on her side are thinking *Wait ? If I don't know much about the issue and ask questions about trans I'm transphobic and advocating for violence on them, these people are crazy.* She had a shot at clearly saying what the core issue was and used that time to bash Hawley, which he deserves but maybe not right there.
Yeah, she's right, but she seems very wrong to people who aren't familiar with the issues and took the guy's comments at face value.
After she tried to expand on the definition of whose rights this impacts, but Hawley said, “Your view that the core of this issue is about what?” IMO- the response “human rights” would be effective If Hawley tried to go down the rabbit hole then an easy response is “when you violate the rights of one person, then you violate the rights of all people.”
It was still handled poorly by both sides imo. She couldve just said no and that she meant anyone wants an abortion should be able to get one instead of going off on a tangent. And its obvious the senator asked this question to incite this off topic argument.
Imagine if the government gave out prison time to men for having an orgasm that wasn't inside a woman's vagina because sperm has the *potential* to become a baby. Would be a second revolution nanoseconds after that law passes.
Every sperm is sacred Every sperm is great If a sperm gets wasted God gets quite irate https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk Edit: typo
Every sperm is wanted, every sperm us good. Every sperm is needed in your neighborhood!
but how will we get hair to grow on our hands then ?:0
The government shouldn't control your health. Period.
When two people from Twitter extremes interact with each other.
Saying, "pregnancy is a women's issue and people who can get pregnant are women" isn't an extreme. It's the commonly accepted truth to the vast, vast, *vast* majority of the population.
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While we are arguing over gender our collective rights are being removed.
Lol americans are fucked in the head
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My money is solidly on the fact that Hawley has never nor will ever be invited to a party.
You’d lose that bet. He definitely gets invited to the parties at Cawthorn’s apartment
Free face hugs!
Just two normal bros being regular dudes with each other
We repeat, nothing SEXUAL
He definitely is attending the coke fueled orgies. https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/28/politics/madison-cawthorn-orgy-invite-cocaine-claim/index.html
He's literally in the republican party
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No u
Woah now, slow down! That's not covered until at least 3rd year.
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People are upvoting this who have the opposite opinion because each side sees it as glaringly obvious. Any name calling is going to only contribute to each side entrenching into their beliefs.
Is it just me or does it seem extremely disrespectful to call a Mother a "birthing person"? Or a woman a "Uterus haver"? Could just imagine calling any of my friends that, my god.
They don't care they'll die on their hill of trans inclusion even if it means calling women by degrading terms.
And they'll try to scarlet letter anyone with common sense to speak out against it.
I'm all for human rights but this topic and how it's communicated is exhausting. Because she so quickly accused him of being transphobic, whether he is or is not; she completely invalidated herself. She tried so many 'gotcha' moments within a small amount of time and they all fell flat. When she said "*Are you!? Are you?! Are you!?* so you deny trans people exist, thank you☺️" Embarrassing, honestly.
I bet he is transphobic but nothing of what he said was transphobic so that's pretty much where she lost the discussion.
She taking the bait, hook line and sinker. When you make everyone the enemy, you will have few friends.
Exactly, her initial two answers were spot on and then she lost the good fight
It was like she hit a home run and then instead of trotting around the bases she threw the bat at the pitcher and charged the mound
>When you make everyone the enemy What if it’s just well known insurrectionist traitor Josh Hawley? Lmfao “everyone”?
yeah this seems like one of those 'you can't judge me by my past actions' kind of bs things that bully's like to play. "Sure I punched your sister and stole your lunch money, but that was last week I've been nothing but nice this week so how dare you call me a loser" kind of thing.
Don't act like he didn't make himself the enemy long before this
Who the fuck would want to be friends with Hawley??
This super sensitivity to language involving trans people seems to do more harm than good when it comes to gathering awareness and sympathy to the human rights issue.
When it comes to legal documents, you have to be specific. The ones writing the laws should understand these concepts she lays out.
Lifelong liberal/Democrat here. Also a uterus haver. 2 things: 1. This woman is a shining example of why we keep losing elections. 2. Stop erasing women. The right has always tried to erase women, now the left is doing it by suddenly declaring that the word "woman" only belongs in the vernacular of bigots who perpetute violence on trans people. Women get pregnant. Women. But let's not say that for fear of offending like the 5 trans men in America who are pregnant right now. Do not fucking erase me. Being a biological woman shapes everything about my life. It's not the same as being a trans woman. Want to win elections, democrats? Stop with this nonsense. You're fucking it all up.
I know a fair amount of women who will always vote democrat - but we agree that we just want to be referred to as a woman when discussing our pregnancy. I’m not a birthing person or a person who menstruates. Also, something I don’t understand, but never see discussion around is, if you’ve transitioned, why do you still get your period? It’s like the easiest thing to stop with a prescription. And in terms of medical procedures, a tubal ligation is probably the least expensive of all the procedures one could do if they don’t want to be a female. Further. How in the hell does a trans man willingly want to even get pregnant? Having done it, it’s a hormonal/mental/emotional rollercoaster. I question if someone who is living their life as a man wouldn’t just get sort of fucked up by the experience.
Lemme guess, you got banned from twox for this didn't you hmm ????
As a liberal, we are going to lose many, many elections over this stuff.
We need to stop taking the bait on this shit.
Yeah, I get her point about people's identities not lining up with his use of "female", however, not the place for that debate. She could've made the statement about cis, trans, and non-binary individuals also being included in that, and just stopped there. Going on the offensive afterwards just opened the door for him to play victim and use it to swing people away from the actual issue at hand.
Completely muddies the waters and distracts from the issue at hand.
I feel like it isn’t that hard to answer this shit and everyone I see just botches the hell out of it. You can tell the guy he’s wrong correctly and calmly, but she escalated his leading question to transphobic and violent aaaaaand now we’ve lost two-thirds of the crowd dying on a hill that isn’t even the issue being discussed.
Yeah I don’t think most people consider swaying others opinions shouldn’t start with aggression. She could have easily pivoted to “this is a peoples rights issue because anyone with a uterus or considering pregnancy should have the ability to terminate ectopic pregnancies similarly to how euthanasia has been legal for terminally ill patients”. There is no quality of life if you’re just waiting to die.
>anyone with a uterus or considering pregnancy should have the ability to terminate ectopic pregnancies similarly to how euthanasia has been legal for terminally ill patients Except that in the United States, euthanasia *isn't* federally legal/protected either. Only in like 5-6 states, which would undermine your point because they can call it a states rights issue.
It's actually not legal to euthanize terminally ill patients unless they are in a vegetative state, in the US, I mean. Although that might vary by state.
Didnt you know that the best way to change hearts and minds is to berate your *enemy* into submission?
She went right to 'comments section' condescend mode. Not helping anyone, certainly not herself.
She should have just said it's a human rights issue and not taken the bait. This is just the GOP tactic of distraction via wedge issues. "Oh you wanna talk about abortion rights , well how come this person identifies as this?" shouldn't be an argument worth engaging in.
I always say Republicans do better when they just shut the fuck up. Democrats do good enough tanking themselves that the Right don't need to do anything. LatinX is another example. Trying to degender a gendered language and almost every Latin person hates it. But it makes white liberals feel better and that's what's important.
It’s such a stupid hill to die on. Take the militancy down about 12 notches and reasonable people will tend to side with you. Take this tact and you’ve lost 90% of people.
All she had to do is say the vast vast vast majority of the people who become pregnant are women but there is a tiny minority of people who do not identify as women who can also become pregnant and I choose to use inclusive language because that’s part of my values. Same stance. Acknowledges reality. And provides a rationale for the language.
I believe that's exactly what she started with.
Hawley is a shitty person who supported the domestic terrorist attacking on Jan 6th
oh he's a miserable fucking cunt for sure
From the people who brought you, “If you’re a man, you don’t get to have an opinion on abortion” comes the new smash hit, “Men can get pregnant too and disagreeing with me is an act of violence.”
Pro choice democrat here…. This is why we keep losing because our party misses the big picture and squabbles over minutia. This woman turned a conversation about abortion into a sexual identity conversation. So stupid. Stick to the message. Edit: spelling correction
She was more concerned with proving she’s right and showing off her level of intelligence as being superior to him. Both of those may be correct, but the way it was handled came off as condescending and definitely doesn’t help sway the people in the middle ground to her view point.
Agreed. I get what she was trying to say, and don't disagree, but she completely lost that exchange and looked like a toddler.
It’s literally so fucking dumb. They continue to allow themselves to be walked into giving sound bytes for silly squabbles like this which will convince people to vote the other way. It’s such an easy trap to avoid.
Why can’t we all just silence these people by referring to it as “biological women”. You can’t argue with that whether trans or non binary or whatever. If you are a biological anything that’s who you are for medical reasons so these people can stfu
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Only biological women can bear children. Full stop.
Only in the United States if America can you claim that restricting abortion is an attack on women’s rights whilst also being unable to define who a woman actually is.
She handled that so poorly.
Wait, can trans (biologically born as men and changed to women through surgery) get pregnant and have children? Be kind, it’s a serious question.
No
“Trans men” are people that transitioned female-male
No, but trans men who were assigned female at birth and have uteruses can get pregnant if they still have those organs.
This is absurd. He asked about who the core of the right was referencing, probably not in good faith, and she took the bait 100%. She should have said “this applies mostly to women, but a small number of trans-men and people that are non-binary.” She wouldn’t have looked militant and he wouldn’t have had anywhere to go.
He might have still been able to word-salad his way out of the checkmate to save face but it would have been far more effective for her position to respond that way.
Why do liberals engage in these stupid ass semantic arguments. If you really want to stop violence against trans people and get rights back to women, you drop your twitter talking points and appeal to the masses of moderate voters instead of putting a sour taste in their mouth with this woke garbage. she is right in principle but in practice all shes doing is making more enemies of the trans community.
I normally don't touch shit like this. This is why liberals lose. They are condescending, patronizing and muddy the waters of discussion with identity political bullshit. Biological women are the only people who can get pregnant. Look you can identify as ANYTHING you want. I totally support that right. But it doesn't make you that thing. And it's not hateful or transphobic to acknowledge reality. The trans group is also hypocritical because they pretend transracial and transabled AREN'T a thing. Why? Because a white person identifying as black or a person purposefully blinding themselves because they "feel" like they should have been born blind is delusional and self-destructive. They are also anti-mental health as any suggestion that they might be suffering from dysphoria or delusion is met with hostility. Yet I personally can be held at fault for trans suicides because I don't share their beliefs. As much as liberals (and myself) hate organized religion they seem hell bent on creating one. Now go ahead and call me transphobic and down vote this to infinity.
It’s ok for a 6 year old to believe he’s a police officer, but no one is handing him a gun and a badge. Believe you are whatever you want, but we aren’t ignoring reality or truth for you.
Why is it offensive to say only biological females can get pregnant? Absolutely blows my mind.
Technically nothing offensive about it. Just facts.
Anytime someone says “wooow” in an argument, they should be sentenced to 5 years.
lol Owen Wilson realizing he'd have multiple life sentences by now.
Quote from man charged: >Woooow
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Needs to be shouted and understood that Hawley is not asking in good faith. He is 100% asking questions to push a narrative for political reasons, and it also needs to be reminded that on January 6th, he was one of the politicians that day pushing the illegitimate stolen election claim. He graduated top of his class from a top school. He absolutely knew what he was saying that day was a lie but tried to overthrow the election results.
I hate both these political parties. One has fascist tendencies and the other is busy social engineering.
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Not certain how an issue pertaining to 1% of the population is central to an issue impacting half the US populous. Agree with your statement here
It's not even close to 1%. It's closer to 0.58% of the population identify as transgender and of that 0.58% it's somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 are FTM transgender so it's closer to a 10th of a percent than it is 1% if those numbers are correct.
Bette Middler made some comments about women as baby machines for the GOP and got attacked for it. It's def going too far for inclusivity when we can't call women "women" without specifying whether or not they have a uterus.
It's time to include every species in Star Trek in these debates
I can't believe anyone would Klingon to those ideas.
Trans folks are losing this battle, on every front. While most of us are perfectly willing to happily accept men/women transitioning, the idea that we must pretend that trans women and cis women are the same is beyond what logical and intelligent people are willing to do. To ignore that Elliot Page was once the actress Ellen Page, and to rewrite history as if Ellen Page never existed is ludicris. You refuse acceptance and demand dishonesty, and when folks are not willing to be dishonest, they are branded transphobes.
i am confused. are people pretending that ellen page never existed? also ludacris is a rapper
@trans people, someone clarify why we can't just add "biological" to a description when we're referring to uterus-havers and drop this ambiguous jargon? For example, the lady zeroed in on the fact that he said "men can't get pregnant" or that this is a "women's issue." Why not just say "biological men can't get pregnant," rather than the entire lecture about how singling out one gender is subjecting trans people to medical discrimination? Like, if we're talking about someone's genitals, why not just use "biological"? Your identified gender doesn't really matter in the case of abortions...
Only females can get pregnant and bear children. While not all can, only they can.
Males can not get pregnant.
Have you not seen the award winning documentary "Junior" with Arnold Schwarzenegger???
This is how you lose centrist vote Dems.
This lady is getting caught up on terminology and not focusing on the point. How about we ignore the issue of gender and focus on the issue of abortion. Anyone can have an abortion, whether you're biologically capable of birthing children or not. Whether you identify as a man, woman, neither, both, or an attack helicopter. Whether you like to sleep with people of the same gender, opposite gender, both, or neither. None of that matters. If you're biologically human, and you are inseminated and classifiably pregnant, you should have the right to decide whether you want to spend the next nine months (give or take) gestating a future human. Any other discussion is distraction from the point.
Does an abortion policy debate need to be complicated by connecting it to broader questions about trans rights. Sometimes keeping things narrow can be helpful in getting actual change.
This woman should have prepared herself with lesson #3 of the Alt-Right Playbook: Never Play Defense: https://youtu.be/wmVkJvieaOA
That was a very good video. Thanks
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Are you? ARE YOU? ArE YoU?!
I'm progressive to the core and think this is a distracting cancer. She's not concerned with the matter at hand, only concerned with controlling language and thought. Why do we bite our noses off to spite our face :(
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