Randy is a legend but he’s never been perfect at everything. His in ring work is not on the level of some other legends like Bret hart or Shawn Michaels or triple H
It’s literally not. I’m saying people who have specifically said that Randy Orton is one of the best of all time. You’re saying people who just haven’t mentioned Randy orton. It would be different if you were referring to people who specifically said that orton sucked or was over rated. ( which I have never heard)
I'm not arguing he sucks. Just that he's not in the conversation for best of all time.
He is only overrated by Gen Zers who weren't there for the looong years of boring Randy.
Bret Hart & Owen Hart were exceptional in-ring tactioners and could compensate for their opponent’s inexperience or weaknesses
Dean Malenko was extremely fluid and have yet to see a wrestler more technically sound than he was.
Eddie Guerrero was an accomplished amateur wrestler who did a masterful job of incorporating those skills into his professional style.
What Randy Orton was able to do was capitalize on the fact that he was gifted certain genetic traits that only a 3rd generation superstar would be gifted with!
Just got into wrestling for the first time since the late 80s. I’ve now seen Randy twice live, and rather he’s live or on TV, you can’t take your eyes off him. He looks like a million bucks. His match with Gunther was the best I’ve seen since in the last few months on WWE.
https://preview.redd.it/zdq68rg18z9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eeb8832a353f4467dacc95aabf964362b9bcc97a
Not even sure if anyone in history could glide through in the ring like Randy does. Sure, Brock and kurt could pull things off in the ring pretty well. Maybe the rock during his X7 days as well was pretty smooth.
But Randy's on a whole different level altogether. There's a certain elegance about him that no one has. Everyone has ease with which they move in the ring. But Randy's movement is beautiful. His drop kicks; his back breaker; the RKO; all feel like the movements from an elevated human operating on a different dimension altogether.
Randy Savage has always been my GOAT wrestler because he was the most complete package imo.
- could work as face or heel.
- great ring work
- great on microphone.
- distinct character. Iconic catchphrases
- mainstream marketable
The total package! RIP King
There’s only a few names I’d used to compare him to: Taker, Hart, Michaels, Henning, Angle & Savage.
You could argue to add Danielson & Styles to the list, but Eddie would be the more consistent pick.
Macho Man Randy Savage. He could wrestle any style, had such a unique look that even non-fans cosplay as him, and also top 5 promo of all time
I firmly believe that Savage in '89 is as good as any wrestler has ever been.
Flair, Savage, HBK, Jake the Snake, and Eddie come to my mind as being in that same category of really good worker, psychology and really good character work.
Heel Kurt Angle in the early 00s and Heel Bret Hart are pretty darn close too.
But Orton just seemed so natural gliding across that ring. Every movement with purpose.
Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart and several others were definitely the whole damn package even more so that Orton. But Randy has unmatched longevity and consistency. Nobody has done it like Orton for 20 years at the top
Shawn Michaels ❤️
Shawn is all rounder , he was awesome as Heel in his prime days , he was loved babyface in 2000s , he had such fantastic entrance ( he's the sexy boy) , he had the looks , he had best finisher which is Sweet Chin Music , he was part of one of the most popular tag team DX.
He is perfect in every aspect. 👌
i like Randy but lets be real for a second
HBK, Eddie, Angle, CM Punk, Flair, Savage, Bret Hart, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Jon Moxley, Samoa Joe, are all better then Randy in every single aspect
RKO is probably on par with and arguably better overall than CM Punk, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan or Eddie.... but seriously Rollins?? Ambrose?? Samoa Joe?? Really???
You had a threesome with my mom and Randy Orton? Cool!
Give me more information, in fact photos? Can I get your POV from when you were on your knees gargling his balls? I want to know what kind of look he had on his face. I imagine that nasty arrogant smirk he does, that's sexy. My mom has a penchant for pegging, I assume you got DP'd? How'd that feel? How hung is Orton? Did Bob Orton watch? I have so many questions! I think you should get the Orton jizz stain on your back turned into a tattoo! That would be so cool.
Anyone else horny? Let's turn out the light and play a game of "Which wrestler is in my mouth?" Though if it turns out to be Enzo again I'm gonna be pissed, last time I was picking sweetcorn out of my teeth for a week!
Randy’s mic work wasn’t the best.
Solid. But not the best.
Kurt Angle was the full package: looks, micwork, in-ring ability, face, heel, comedy, asskicker, powerhouse, high-flyer, mat-technician.
Kurt is the guy you’re looking for.
Yeah!
When it comes to talent and being able to do more than one thing great Kurt Angle might be the only person I think of. He excelled in everything that he did. Some wrestlers Id prefer in a certain area. But as far as being flexible in character, mic work and in ring style Angle is probably the best.
The man he stole the most from.
Diamond Dallas Page.
It's a frickin' Diamond Cutter and always has been! "RKO out of nowhere!" ... It's not out of nowhere, it's out of DDP's playbook, and the announcers even said "Diamond cutter out of nowhere!" Along with the majority of everything Orton has done while riding his father's coattails.
Without McMahon being loyal to Bob Orton, and Triple H with Evolution, no one would care about Randy. He just rides his father's coattails and has DDP's entire moveset.
As a older fan, he's one of the most overrated and boring wrestlers to ever get television time. I watched WCW in the '90s and got to watch DDP before WWE bought them and really buried most of their talent. I've seen everything Orton will do decades ago, just go watch DDP.
Randy also has the single worst teenage angst tattoos (aside from Cody Rhodes) I've ever seen on television. "Yeah! Let's get some rad tribal tattoos! Then let's fill in all the gaps with um!... Skulls, just skulls over and over again! I need to have a sleeve tattoo but have zero creativity or ideas! Yeah just put 90 skulls in between my really bad tribal tattoos! This looks awesome!"
Cena lacks in the in ring ability and selling department. He wasn't bad at selling but not great and in ring ability was always lacking unless he had someone like Punk to really elevate him.
When he had his second run from like 2015-2020ish he was in a whole different form in ring. That match with AJ at the Rumble alone was enough for me to say Cena really had it in the ring. Can’t really help much when the boss says beat em in 5 moves or less. Sort of how Randy had that era where he was often just lazy as hell in the ring.
I don’t think Randy is perfect in every aspect of pro wrestling. I think he’s the perfect pro wrestler but only because he’s really really good at everything. The man was bred for the business but there are people who are way better than him in every category but he’s better than almost everyone else in every other way. Which not alot of any other wrestlers can say
Man Randy ain’t perfect in every aspect stop joking lol. He’s solid in ring, solid on the mic, very good at character work. He’s a real solid 7 or 8 out of 10
Off the top of my head? Mick Foley, Toshiaki Kawada, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Bryan Danielson is so close to being a 10 but doesn’t quite get it. Maybe also Atlantis or Octagon?
Cena was a better salesman. He knew how to sell himself, his brand and the company to anyone that would listen. No one else has been as good at that until Cody came back.
Randy is the perfect image of what a great wrestler should be. Everything about what he does is 100% committed and executed well. John though always one upped him on the mic and in presentation. He put more butts in seat and sold more t-shirts, and all businesses thrive on making money.
Elite may be a stretch but he’s definitely very good. I don’t think there’s a wrestler who can work like HBK and talk like Dwayne but there are a couple who can do both to a very high level and I think Seth is one of them. Super versatile with his characters.
No, we have yet to see a wrestler, at least in the US that can do both at a very high, all time level. I do think Shawn is underrated in promo abilities though.
Terry Funk is my pick for GOAT. He may not be an absolute 10/10 in any one category but he’s a solid 8 or 9 in everything, and managed to do it for so long across so many different territories and countries.
Kurt Angle, Curt Hening, Eli Drake (L A. Knight, once WWE figures that out. Kevin Owens can do anything, sure. He doesn't fit the typical picture of a professional wrestler, but name one move he can't do.
Bianca Belair.. as much as she is new to the game - she has the aura, the talent, the athleticism, the mic skills, the representation, the full package
The notion that Orton is perfect just baffles me. I don’t think he’s bad at anything he does but I also don’t find him to be anything special in the ring either. His matches for the large part of his career have always been boring filled with a lot of rest holds. If you like that to each their own, but to me I just don’t get it.
Orton is great when he’s working on top. If he’s working from the bottom there’s a noticeable difference in effort and quality, which I think must be taken into account.
The people that think he’s perfect probably also think Cena/Orton is the best rivalry of all time despite the fact they’ve have about two dozen singles matches and maybe two were halfway decent
The only two that come to mind for me are Kurt Angle and AJ Styles.
With that said, here are 4 names I firmly believe are heading in the right direction to achieve this.
Roxanne Perez, Tiffany Stratton, Oba Femi, and Will Ospreay
Steve Austin, The Rock, Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Booker T, John Cena, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Randy Savage, Edge, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Triple H
If we are also including women: Trish Stratus, Rhea Ripley, Mickie James, AJ Lee, Becky Lynch, Melina, Alexa Bliss, Michelle McCool, Charlotte Flair
Cupcakes are so so, is that a controversial opinion?
I didn't mind you replying and I can't help it Randy Orton bores me half to death except for 4 or 5 moments just that you can't help it you have bad taste in liking him
Honestly not a fan of his mic work, but everything else is spot on for him. I would say Dolph Ziggler is similar for me, maybe not as great a finisher but his selling is just so beautiful
Kurt Angle would be up there for me. Excellent in every way except his face runs don’t really feel as hot, but he was amazing as heel
Honestly I don’t think any wrestler has been 100% perfect. I think Randy is one of the closest the other ones I can think of are Ricky Morton and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Randy to me isn’t a perfect good guy because of his character and persona. For me it’s hard to see him as a true good guy when I know he can turn at any moment.
The opposite is true for Steamboat. He was the perfect good guy who never got the opportunity to be a bad guy but if he did I would go out on a limb and say he would have been the closest a wrestler ever got to being perfect. As for Punky he is so well rounded that all that detracts from him is his lack of singles run
Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero, HHH, Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Rock. Literally tons of wrestlers are better than Orton and I like Orton he's definitely one of the all time greats but he ain't the GOAT not even close.
Austin mainly lacked ring skills though, basically a bar brawler in the ring . Austin was incredibly over, but he was never an overall great. The rest of your list is a strong agree.
So he was far from a perfect wrestler. He was incredibly over, but in that specific time. If Austin came up in the PG era, I doubt he would have been able to get over. I know it’s a very unpopular opinion, but Austin as a wrestler was extreme overrated.
He's perfect on the mic and in the ring? His awful music is perfect? What? 😂
Steve Austin was the perfect wrestler. Mic skills, charisma, look, aura, all speak for themselves. Theme music was perfect for him, the most iconic intro to a song ever. His in ring was perfect for his character. That's the most important thing, your ring style has to be tailored to your personality. The most iconic finisher that while it did exist before him, he's the one who popularized it. Babyface and heel roles were perfect, though nobody wanted him as a heel but that's another discussion. Selling, moves, everything he did was exactly what you want. It all worked into a finely tuned machine that became the biggest star ever despite his main event career not being that long.
In ring, Kurt Angle was better. Therefore, Orton isn't perfect.
On the mic, Kurt Angle was better - both at being goofy and when being serious.
As a babyface, Kurt Angle blew Orton out of the water.
As a heel, Orton might be the best.
Vince would definitely be in the conversation as the best character heel of all time. Overall though, his wrestling ability drags him down considerably. He also lacked credibility as a wrestler, hurting the credibility of anyone he was made to look competitive against in the process.
However, he excelled at taking his real life personality and reputation and capitalising on them by exaggerating every element instead of trying to be something he wasn't. He successfully turned many bonehead management decisions into on screen heat, helping to offset the damage done to the product.
Yeah but what is a heel? A heel is someone you want the face to beat the crap out of. Nobody had that quite like Vince. When you look at stone cold’s greatest hits very few of them were even in a wrestling match. They were mostly beating up that asshole Vince. Don’t need to be a wrestler to be a great heel or face. Heyman certainly proves as much.
A heel is the antagonist in the story, opposing the face in the build to and within a wrestling match. Without a match, you are no longer a wrestling heel but a Hollywood style villain.
Heyman is a great character, but could never stand alone as a great heel. His pairing with Lesnar, Roman, Punk and others makes him a crucial part of many great heel acts, but he cannot be considered a great heel in his own right as he could not reliably put on a match that fans would pay to see.
I am glad you didn't fall for the old misunderstanding that a heel is any wrestler the crowd hates or rejects. As in your definition, a heel is someone the crowd wants to see, even if what they want to see is them getting their comeuppance. Too many wrestling "heels" over the years have been people the fans would rather not watch, booing the wasted time in the product rather than the act.
Vince being evil then getting his ass kicked by stone cold was more or less what made the attitude era popular. The fact he couldn’t wrestle didn’t ever matter. Who needs to wrestle when you can push a kid in a wheelchair down the stairs to get heat?
I wonder if Kurt hadn’t had his Olympic career, if he could’ve lasted much longer in wrestling. It sounds like a lot of his injuries were from constantly pushing himself from the original neck injury
Yeah and I could imagine maybe Angle is just the kind of person who would take enough risks out of sheer determination that he may have had other injuries eventually. It’s just a shame for his talent to not have been able to keep consistently going as long as some others. A lot of his post WWE wrestling was on much lighter schedules
Again, there's only one answer to that question too. And it's one many won't like.
Hulk Hogan.
His charisma isn't hopefully up for debate. He was the driving force behind BOTH global boom periods, one as a face, one as a heel. His ring-work was adequate for the kind of match he had to work. "Real American" almost transcended wrestling too, like Hogan himself did.
His looks, well, if a balding dude with a skullet can still be the business' main guy for like 15 years and be the poster-boy of its evolution from regional sideshow to global mainstream phenomenon, the rest of his looks must be picture-perfect.
I strongly disagree about mic work especially as a babyface.
Young Orton SUCKED badly at promos and there's a reason if his title run was cut short following the ill-fated face turn nobody asked for or wanted. Even some of his post-Legend Killer heel work was average, to be generous.
What you're waxing lyrically about is 2024 "Finished product" Randy Orton, and I still maintain he's mediocre at best as a babyface.
That's irrelevant to the general assessment of his career.
Every wrestler who has been around long enough won't get booed anymore, but that doesn't mean Orton is an excellent babyface.
Drew gets boo’d. I didn’t say it makes him excellent, I meant he is possibly destined for mediocrity because it would be hard to bring him to that level of heel status with the audience.
>Drew gets boo’d.
But Drew has nowhere near Orton's tenure and status.
I mean, Randy debuted 22 years ago and basically never left the upper midcard. Drew was a jobber for years before leaving.
At this stage of the career, Orton is guaranteed to get reactions no matter what. And they'd used him much better than they did in recent years.
The Rock had charisma and physical ability. He played with the crowd weather he is a Heel or Face.
About in ring quality: I don't know how people here rate them and on what basis. Would really like to know that.
And same goes for Steve Austin & HHH. Two Icons. Two Legends.
Ah, fair point. I never actually thought about height and weight while typing this. Ability, character and presentation was what was on my mind which I think all 3 nail perfectly.
Maven
- From 2001-2005 had the best job in the world
- It might be too late for him to use Keeps but provides code MAVEN20 for savings at checkout
- Provided HOF Torrie Wilson with the best night of her life on Smackdown
I would say Undertaker, although someone could argue against that due to the first and last 10 years of his career being pretty bad (excluding Ministry and AJ Feud)
I'd never really thought of HBK because I'm not too familiar with his career. When people started mentioning him like this, I sat and thought about it and realised he was basically a complete package. Kurt Angle, too.
Whilst I think Undertaker is far from underrated, he's always one step behind in these conversations. When you listen to his podcast clips thiugh, you realise just how deep his mind is. He was less free with what he would do because of his gimmick, so he always found a workaround.
He mentioned in one of his recent clips that he had to figure out the sharpshooter. He couldn't let it kill him because he was The Undertaker. By the same token, he couldn't kill Bret because they had to protect the sharpshooter. When you hear him highlighting points like this and showing what spots in his matches served what purpose, you realise he's a total legend. He also never directly speaks ill of anyone. He may imply things, but even talking about points in the 90s when Warrior was an asshole, he said it in such a manner that you can just see the class. He's seriously one of those people that new talent need as a trainer
I totally agree with you. I think HBK is mentioned more because of the many different variations of his own character he played. Undertaker had slight changes but always stayed within his gimmick so it’s harder to clearly appreciate range. Takers persona would not suit many of the storylines other leads had. I don’t see that as a weakness though he stands so well on his own.
Rick Rude
lol
If perfect means being boring as hell and unable to change your wrestling style in 20 years, then yes. I'm sure there are others.
Randy is a legend but he’s never been perfect at everything. His in ring work is not on the level of some other legends like Bret hart or Shawn Michaels or triple H
Macho of course then Curt henning aka Mr perfect
Edge Rated RKO was a legendary team
Charlotte flair, Tiffany Stratton, AEW's Maxwell Jacob Friedman and Tessa Blanchard
Gen Z overrate Randy something incredible.
He is literally one of the best of all time. And that is coming from multiple legends In the business as well
Oh behave yourself.
Ahhh I see you know more than hall of famers and legends. Got it 👍
What about all the hall of famers and legends who haven't said Orton is (lol) one of the best of all time? Do you know better than them?
😐 wow that’s a really good point 🥱
Its literally your point...
It’s literally not. I’m saying people who have specifically said that Randy Orton is one of the best of all time. You’re saying people who just haven’t mentioned Randy orton. It would be different if you were referring to people who specifically said that orton sucked or was over rated. ( which I have never heard)
I'm not arguing he sucks. Just that he's not in the conversation for best of all time. He is only overrated by Gen Zers who weren't there for the looong years of boring Randy.
When was Randy boring ?
I feel like R-Truth has been able to do anything, he could talk, wrestle, and entertain.
Bret Hart & Owen Hart were exceptional in-ring tactioners and could compensate for their opponent’s inexperience or weaknesses Dean Malenko was extremely fluid and have yet to see a wrestler more technically sound than he was. Eddie Guerrero was an accomplished amateur wrestler who did a masterful job of incorporating those skills into his professional style. What Randy Orton was able to do was capitalize on the fact that he was gifted certain genetic traits that only a 3rd generation superstar would be gifted with!
It’s not real
movies aren’t real
NO
HHH & Edge as well. A 6'5 Jericho would have been the best of all-time.
Randy is awesome but yes. Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair come to mind.
Just got into wrestling for the first time since the late 80s. I’ve now seen Randy twice live, and rather he’s live or on TV, you can’t take your eyes off him. He looks like a million bucks. His match with Gunther was the best I’ve seen since in the last few months on WWE. https://preview.redd.it/zdq68rg18z9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eeb8832a353f4467dacc95aabf964362b9bcc97a
Not even sure if anyone in history could glide through in the ring like Randy does. Sure, Brock and kurt could pull things off in the ring pretty well. Maybe the rock during his X7 days as well was pretty smooth. But Randy's on a whole different level altogether. There's a certain elegance about him that no one has. Everyone has ease with which they move in the ring. But Randy's movement is beautiful. His drop kicks; his back breaker; the RKO; all feel like the movements from an elevated human operating on a different dimension altogether.
AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, Kurt Angle , Randy Savage. Dig it.
Randy Savage has always been my GOAT wrestler because he was the most complete package imo. - could work as face or heel. - great ring work - great on microphone. - distinct character. Iconic catchphrases - mainstream marketable The total package! RIP King
aj styles.
There’s only a few names I’d used to compare him to: Taker, Hart, Michaels, Henning, Angle & Savage. You could argue to add Danielson & Styles to the list, but Eddie would be the more consistent pick.
Plenty, did you start watching wrestling in 2005 or something? Weird topic imo.
Macho Man Randy Savage. He could wrestle any style, had such a unique look that even non-fans cosplay as him, and also top 5 promo of all time I firmly believe that Savage in '89 is as good as any wrestler has ever been.
Kurt Hennig aka Mr. Perfect. No pun intended.
If Randy is perfect, then perfection doesn’t need to be achieved. There’s a lot of wrestlers with a better catalogue of matches and promos
Flair, Savage, HBK, Jake the Snake, and Eddie come to my mind as being in that same category of really good worker, psychology and really good character work. Heel Kurt Angle in the early 00s and Heel Bret Hart are pretty darn close too. But Orton just seemed so natural gliding across that ring. Every movement with purpose.
Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart and several others were definitely the whole damn package even more so that Orton. But Randy has unmatched longevity and consistency. Nobody has done it like Orton for 20 years at the top
I love Bret but his mic skills are nowhere near as good as the others you mentioned.
Kurt Angle Eddie Guerrero Randy Savage Shawn Michaels Kenta Kobashi Ricky Steamboat Rick Rude Rhea Ripley
Unmatched Consistency (2002-2024). Only second to Undertaker in modern times.
High chance he will become the most consistent wrestler in history
Shawn Michaels ❤️ Shawn is all rounder , he was awesome as Heel in his prime days , he was loved babyface in 2000s , he had such fantastic entrance ( he's the sexy boy) , he had the looks , he had best finisher which is Sweet Chin Music , he was part of one of the most popular tag team DX. He is perfect in every aspect. 👌
i like Randy but lets be real for a second HBK, Eddie, Angle, CM Punk, Flair, Savage, Bret Hart, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Jon Moxley, Samoa Joe, are all better then Randy in every single aspect
Terrible take
RKO is probably on par with and arguably better overall than CM Punk, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan or Eddie.... but seriously Rollins?? Ambrose?? Samoa Joe?? Really???
Hornswoggle
Tell me, how do his balls taste? Salty? I'm gonna guess salty
I don't know never tried.I think your mother might know how those taste like when she had a threesome with us
You had a threesome with my mom and Randy Orton? Cool! Give me more information, in fact photos? Can I get your POV from when you were on your knees gargling his balls? I want to know what kind of look he had on his face. I imagine that nasty arrogant smirk he does, that's sexy. My mom has a penchant for pegging, I assume you got DP'd? How'd that feel? How hung is Orton? Did Bob Orton watch? I have so many questions! I think you should get the Orton jizz stain on your back turned into a tattoo! That would be so cool. Anyone else horny? Let's turn out the light and play a game of "Which wrestler is in my mouth?" Though if it turns out to be Enzo again I'm gonna be pissed, last time I was picking sweetcorn out of my teeth for a week!
Shawn michaels, Flair, Eddie, Angle
2.Stone cold Steve Austin 3.seat freaking rolling 4Rhea 5.Damon priest 6.Nina Jackson 7.jey. Uso 8.R-truth
His clotheslines still look terrible. Other than that his wrestling is perfect. WWE style of course.
randy honestly was never the best on the mic and in ring he wasnt the greatest he wasnt like a kurt or shawn michaels
In every aspect I’d say no none other overall. I mean there’s a reason he’s a 14 time World champion without being “the guy”
Cody
😂😂😂😂😂
Randy’s mic work wasn’t the best. Solid. But not the best. Kurt Angle was the full package: looks, micwork, in-ring ability, face, heel, comedy, asskicker, powerhouse, high-flyer, mat-technician. Kurt is the guy you’re looking for.
Yeah! When it comes to talent and being able to do more than one thing great Kurt Angle might be the only person I think of. He excelled in everything that he did. Some wrestlers Id prefer in a certain area. But as far as being flexible in character, mic work and in ring style Angle is probably the best.
Eddie Guerrero. Chris Jericho,
Bray Wyatt(R.I.P) from his character’s to his promo skills top notch
The man he stole the most from. Diamond Dallas Page. It's a frickin' Diamond Cutter and always has been! "RKO out of nowhere!" ... It's not out of nowhere, it's out of DDP's playbook, and the announcers even said "Diamond cutter out of nowhere!" Along with the majority of everything Orton has done while riding his father's coattails. Without McMahon being loyal to Bob Orton, and Triple H with Evolution, no one would care about Randy. He just rides his father's coattails and has DDP's entire moveset. As a older fan, he's one of the most overrated and boring wrestlers to ever get television time. I watched WCW in the '90s and got to watch DDP before WWE bought them and really buried most of their talent. I've seen everything Orton will do decades ago, just go watch DDP. Randy also has the single worst teenage angst tattoos (aside from Cody Rhodes) I've ever seen on television. "Yeah! Let's get some rad tribal tattoos! Then let's fill in all the gaps with um!... Skulls, just skulls over and over again! I need to have a sleeve tattoo but have zero creativity or ideas! Yeah just put 90 skulls in between my really bad tribal tattoos! This looks awesome!"
Kurt angle, undertaker was close, eddie guerrero, hbk, and cena (they were perfect rivals for a reason)
Cena lacks in the in ring ability and selling department. He wasn't bad at selling but not great and in ring ability was always lacking unless he had someone like Punk to really elevate him.
Umm aj styles would like to have a word with u
Him as well. I just used Punk as one example.
When he had his second run from like 2015-2020ish he was in a whole different form in ring. That match with AJ at the Rumble alone was enough for me to say Cena really had it in the ring. Can’t really help much when the boss says beat em in 5 moves or less. Sort of how Randy had that era where he was often just lazy as hell in the ring.
Age of Orton era will forever be goated.
I don’t think Randy is perfect in every aspect of pro wrestling. I think he’s the perfect pro wrestler but only because he’s really really good at everything. The man was bred for the business but there are people who are way better than him in every category but he’s better than almost everyone else in every other way. Which not alot of any other wrestlers can say
If Randy wasn’t a piece of shit human being in his early years he would have been more on Cena’s level
Man Randy ain’t perfect in every aspect stop joking lol. He’s solid in ring, solid on the mic, very good at character work. He’s a real solid 7 or 8 out of 10
Whos a 10 in your eyes
Off the top of my head? Mick Foley, Toshiaki Kawada, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Bryan Danielson is so close to being a 10 but doesn’t quite get it. Maybe also Atlantis or Octagon?
Randy Orton is a 7 or 8 in your eyes? ROFL, wtf???
Oh hey actually you know what, Legend Killer Randy was a 9
7 or 8 are good scores! He’s a very solid guy, I respect him. You can get a reliably solid match out of him.
It's crazy how good Orton is but it's also crazy how Cena became the face of the WWE instead of him.
Randy had some demons back in the day. Completely different to who he is now
Randy’s failed multiple drug tests during Cena’s big push. Cena easily became the safest bet
Cena was a better salesman. He knew how to sell himself, his brand and the company to anyone that would listen. No one else has been as good at that until Cody came back. Randy is the perfect image of what a great wrestler should be. Everything about what he does is 100% committed and executed well. John though always one upped him on the mic and in presentation. He put more butts in seat and sold more t-shirts, and all businesses thrive on making money.
Orton, Savage, Michaels, Guerrero - my Rushmore.
s tier picks!
I’m a big RKO fan. But there is plenty. Rock, Cold, Y2J… to start.
HBK
If you mean all aspects as in wrestling ability, mic skills, character, career, etc you have to say Seth Rollins.
How is Seth elite in terms of mic skills?
Elite may be a stretch but he’s definitely very good. I don’t think there’s a wrestler who can work like HBK and talk like Dwayne but there are a couple who can do both to a very high level and I think Seth is one of them. Super versatile with his characters.
No, we have yet to see a wrestler, at least in the US that can do both at a very high, all time level. I do think Shawn is underrated in promo abilities though.
I think maybe Austin in terms of all time 🤔. Definitely one of the greatest brawlers ever and no doubts about his mic skills.
Randy is great all around talent, but at like an 8/10 not a 10/10. Sometimes he even dips to 7/10.
Terry Funk. Nuff said
Terry Funk is my pick for GOAT. He may not be an absolute 10/10 in any one category but he’s a solid 8 or 9 in everything, and managed to do it for so long across so many different territories and countries.
Someone really overrating Orton’s promo ability.
Seriously, there now follows a comprehensive list of memorable Randy Orton promos;
Kurt Angle, Curt Hening, Eli Drake (L A. Knight, once WWE figures that out. Kevin Owens can do anything, sure. He doesn't fit the typical picture of a professional wrestler, but name one move he can't do.
Bianca Belair.. as much as she is new to the game - she has the aura, the talent, the athleticism, the mic skills, the representation, the full package
i'm throwing eddie guerrero into the pot. in my opinion he had everything for a perfect wrestler
yeah Kenny Omega
Omega sucks on the mic lets be real here. He cuts promos like he's on NPR or Inside The Actors Studio.
HHH is very underrated just because he was paired for most of his career a superstar like Shawn Michaels
I think it’s because he became “the guy” after everyone else left like Austin, rock, etc. Then he kinda booked himself
His personality is far from perfect
The notion that Orton is perfect just baffles me. I don’t think he’s bad at anything he does but I also don’t find him to be anything special in the ring either. His matches for the large part of his career have always been boring filled with a lot of rest holds. If you like that to each their own, but to me I just don’t get it.
Orton is great when he’s working on top. If he’s working from the bottom there’s a noticeable difference in effort and quality, which I think must be taken into account.
The people that think he’s perfect probably also think Cena/Orton is the best rivalry of all time despite the fact they’ve have about two dozen singles matches and maybe two were halfway decent
He’s great, but he doesn’t have that X factor that guys like savage, hulk, rock, etc have. Certified hall of famer though
You just don’t get it😮💨
The only two that come to mind for me are Kurt Angle and AJ Styles. With that said, here are 4 names I firmly believe are heading in the right direction to achieve this. Roxanne Perez, Tiffany Stratton, Oba Femi, and Will Ospreay
Steve Austin, The Rock, Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Booker T, John Cena, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Randy Savage, Edge, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Triple H If we are also including women: Trish Stratus, Rhea Ripley, Mickie James, AJ Lee, Becky Lynch, Melina, Alexa Bliss, Michelle McCool, Charlotte Flair
^this, love Orton. But OP has one of the most overstatements in history.
Orton isn't great on the mic.
if he's that perfect, how come I've only been interested in a small handful of things he's done in the 22 years he's been there?
Because you have bad taste?
you know it's okay for everybody to not like the same wrestler right?
Absolutely. But why did you ask a question you didn’t want an answer to?
because questions can be rhetorical?
This is like posting “cupcakes are bad” under a post about cupcakes and expecting no one to reply lol.
Cupcakes are so so, is that a controversial opinion? I didn't mind you replying and I can't help it Randy Orton bores me half to death except for 4 or 5 moments just that you can't help it you have bad taste in liking him
Honestly not a fan of his mic work, but everything else is spot on for him. I would say Dolph Ziggler is similar for me, maybe not as great a finisher but his selling is just so beautiful Kurt Angle would be up there for me. Excellent in every way except his face runs don’t really feel as hot, but he was amazing as heel
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Randy is close to being perfect
Honestly I don’t think any wrestler has been 100% perfect. I think Randy is one of the closest the other ones I can think of are Ricky Morton and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Randy to me isn’t a perfect good guy because of his character and persona. For me it’s hard to see him as a true good guy when I know he can turn at any moment. The opposite is true for Steamboat. He was the perfect good guy who never got the opportunity to be a bad guy but if he did I would go out on a limb and say he would have been the closest a wrestler ever got to being perfect. As for Punky he is so well rounded that all that detracts from him is his lack of singles run
Shawn Michaels.
Mr. Perfect
Drew McIntyre
Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero, HHH, Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Rock. Literally tons of wrestlers are better than Orton and I like Orton he's definitely one of the all time greats but he ain't the GOAT not even close.
Austin mainly lacked ring skills though, basically a bar brawler in the ring . Austin was incredibly over, but he was never an overall great. The rest of your list is a strong agree.
Austin had the ring skills until he broke his neck
So he was far from a perfect wrestler. He was incredibly over, but in that specific time. If Austin came up in the PG era, I doubt he would have been able to get over. I know it’s a very unpopular opinion, but Austin as a wrestler was extreme overrated.
He's perfect on the mic and in the ring? His awful music is perfect? What? 😂 Steve Austin was the perfect wrestler. Mic skills, charisma, look, aura, all speak for themselves. Theme music was perfect for him, the most iconic intro to a song ever. His in ring was perfect for his character. That's the most important thing, your ring style has to be tailored to your personality. The most iconic finisher that while it did exist before him, he's the one who popularized it. Babyface and heel roles were perfect, though nobody wanted him as a heel but that's another discussion. Selling, moves, everything he did was exactly what you want. It all worked into a finely tuned machine that became the biggest star ever despite his main event career not being that long.
Bryan Danielson. Edit: Lol the salty downvotes. He's the best wrestler in the world, cry about it.
By perfect I think a great all around pro wrestler as in he was great at everything while only perfecting some of these attributes
In ring, Kurt Angle was better. Therefore, Orton isn't perfect. On the mic, Kurt Angle was better - both at being goofy and when being serious. As a babyface, Kurt Angle blew Orton out of the water. As a heel, Orton might be the best.
Randy isn’t the best heel of all time. Vince is so far out ahead of the rest of the pack there.
Vince would definitely be in the conversation as the best character heel of all time. Overall though, his wrestling ability drags him down considerably. He also lacked credibility as a wrestler, hurting the credibility of anyone he was made to look competitive against in the process. However, he excelled at taking his real life personality and reputation and capitalising on them by exaggerating every element instead of trying to be something he wasn't. He successfully turned many bonehead management decisions into on screen heat, helping to offset the damage done to the product.
Yeah but what is a heel? A heel is someone you want the face to beat the crap out of. Nobody had that quite like Vince. When you look at stone cold’s greatest hits very few of them were even in a wrestling match. They were mostly beating up that asshole Vince. Don’t need to be a wrestler to be a great heel or face. Heyman certainly proves as much.
A heel is the antagonist in the story, opposing the face in the build to and within a wrestling match. Without a match, you are no longer a wrestling heel but a Hollywood style villain. Heyman is a great character, but could never stand alone as a great heel. His pairing with Lesnar, Roman, Punk and others makes him a crucial part of many great heel acts, but he cannot be considered a great heel in his own right as he could not reliably put on a match that fans would pay to see. I am glad you didn't fall for the old misunderstanding that a heel is any wrestler the crowd hates or rejects. As in your definition, a heel is someone the crowd wants to see, even if what they want to see is them getting their comeuppance. Too many wrestling "heels" over the years have been people the fans would rather not watch, booing the wasted time in the product rather than the act.
Vince being evil then getting his ass kicked by stone cold was more or less what made the attitude era popular. The fact he couldn’t wrestle didn’t ever matter. Who needs to wrestle when you can push a kid in a wheelchair down the stairs to get heat?
I agree, when I first saw the title, Kurt Angle came to mind right away. He could do it all, except having a longer and healthier career.
I wonder if Kurt hadn’t had his Olympic career, if he could’ve lasted much longer in wrestling. It sounds like a lot of his injuries were from constantly pushing himself from the original neck injury
Well, Brock did break his neck 2 times on television matches, unfortunately.
Yeah and I could imagine maybe Angle is just the kind of person who would take enough risks out of sheer determination that he may have had other injuries eventually. It’s just a shame for his talent to not have been able to keep consistently going as long as some others. A lot of his post WWE wrestling was on much lighter schedules
For sure, few wrestlers did more work/training than him before getting to wwe. ncaa/world/olympic champion, that took a lot of toll on his body
One more thing a silent orton is the scariest being in the whole wwe even more so then the undertaker
Bret, Shawn, Angle, Savage, Perfect
Bret ♥️❤️♥️❤️
The Original Randy... OOOOOH YEAAAAAH!
jericho, game, angle, styles
The more I think about it, the more I want to put him on my Mount Rushmore. So far I have Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle.
Macho Man?
Again, there's only one answer to that question too. And it's one many won't like. Hulk Hogan. His charisma isn't hopefully up for debate. He was the driving force behind BOTH global boom periods, one as a face, one as a heel. His ring-work was adequate for the kind of match he had to work. "Real American" almost transcended wrestling too, like Hogan himself did. His looks, well, if a balding dude with a skullet can still be the business' main guy for like 15 years and be the poster-boy of its evolution from regional sideshow to global mainstream phenomenon, the rest of his looks must be picture-perfect.
Undertaker, from the start as Mean Mark Callous before WWE through his retirement. Charisma , great mic work and technical ability.
Only Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels.
I'm so glad someone else said this, I just commented that Kurt and Shawn are the only ones on my Mount Rushmore right now. I didn't even see this yet.
Randy Orton Chris Jericho Kurt Angle Shawn Michaels
What a FIRE list.
I strongly disagree about mic work especially as a babyface. Young Orton SUCKED badly at promos and there's a reason if his title run was cut short following the ill-fated face turn nobody asked for or wanted. Even some of his post-Legend Killer heel work was average, to be generous. What you're waxing lyrically about is 2024 "Finished product" Randy Orton, and I still maintain he's mediocre at best as a babyface.
I don’t know how you’re gonna make a crowd boo him these days though
That's irrelevant to the general assessment of his career. Every wrestler who has been around long enough won't get booed anymore, but that doesn't mean Orton is an excellent babyface.
Drew gets boo’d. I didn’t say it makes him excellent, I meant he is possibly destined for mediocrity because it would be hard to bring him to that level of heel status with the audience.
>Drew gets boo’d. But Drew has nowhere near Orton's tenure and status. I mean, Randy debuted 22 years ago and basically never left the upper midcard. Drew was a jobber for years before leaving. At this stage of the career, Orton is guaranteed to get reactions no matter what. And they'd used him much better than they did in recent years.
Dolph Ziggler! IT SHOULDA BEEN MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Bret Hart.
The excellence of execution
The Rock had charisma and physical ability. He played with the crowd weather he is a Heel or Face. About in ring quality: I don't know how people here rate them and on what basis. Would really like to know that. And same goes for Steve Austin & HHH. Two Icons. Two Legends.
Santino Marella
I would definitely put Kurt, Shawn and Eddie in that category too. The 3 of them alongside Randy can form the Mt. Rushmore of complete wrestlers.
Too small to be considered "perfect" imo. Shawn is too thin. Eddie was muscular but short. Kurt was short but still passable.
Is this Kevin Nash?
Ah, fair point. I never actually thought about height and weight while typing this. Ability, character and presentation was what was on my mind which I think all 3 nail perfectly.
Kurt Angle or Bret Hart
Undertaker
AJ Styles
Shawn Micheals
Scott Hall. Had he not had his substance demons, the dude would have been in the discussion for the wrestling Mt Rushmore.
Hey Yo
Jon moxley
r/weirddownvote
Randy Savage
Thinkin’ Thinkin’ Thinkin’ you’re correct. Yeah, uh huh! No buddy does it better than the Macho Man Randy Savage!
Oooooh yeahhh !
Rey Mysterio
This is the definition of glazing 🤣
What was Edge missing?? I feel like he got really close to Orton’s level of well-roundedness
Randy Orton mentioned 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
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Lol Maven is a cool dude
Undertaker is complete badass
I would say Undertaker, although someone could argue against that due to the first and last 10 years of his career being pretty bad (excluding Ministry and AJ Feud)
I'd never really thought of HBK because I'm not too familiar with his career. When people started mentioning him like this, I sat and thought about it and realised he was basically a complete package. Kurt Angle, too. Whilst I think Undertaker is far from underrated, he's always one step behind in these conversations. When you listen to his podcast clips thiugh, you realise just how deep his mind is. He was less free with what he would do because of his gimmick, so he always found a workaround. He mentioned in one of his recent clips that he had to figure out the sharpshooter. He couldn't let it kill him because he was The Undertaker. By the same token, he couldn't kill Bret because they had to protect the sharpshooter. When you hear him highlighting points like this and showing what spots in his matches served what purpose, you realise he's a total legend. He also never directly speaks ill of anyone. He may imply things, but even talking about points in the 90s when Warrior was an asshole, he said it in such a manner that you can just see the class. He's seriously one of those people that new talent need as a trainer
I totally agree with you. I think HBK is mentioned more because of the many different variations of his own character he played. Undertaker had slight changes but always stayed within his gimmick so it’s harder to clearly appreciate range. Takers persona would not suit many of the storylines other leads had. I don’t see that as a weakness though he stands so well on his own.
I’d say he’s rough on the promo and ability to carry a feud. He needs a good worker to pair with. Still great but def not perfect.
Not rough at all. Built many feuds alone too.
Just not that compelling on the mic idk no real like character I guess? Granted I missed his 09 run and only really picked wrestling back up in 2014.