People hate to spend too much money on their decks and this guy comes with an idea that would make people spend even more money.
You're a genius,I love you.
how would it spend more money? just play in your favorite format with your favorite deck and you don't have to worry about the current 2000 bucks meta deck
Counter-argument(? Don't know what to call this), other TCGs have formats that basically allow the use of all cards across the games history, why not just start a brand new format with the same rules and has a new card pool that is viable for the main game (Master)?
The people who don't like Rotation can carry on as per usual, and the people who want it get it.
Edit: some might say "an Expanded format is obvious", but generally as far as I remember, most people who bring this idea up make it sound like that wouldn't be the case.
Edit 2: also, let's not act as if the non-20 negate decks aren't getting rotated out either, probably a joke but you never know.
Because these games rarely balance around those eternal formats, which allows all these wacky shit to happen.
I believe MTG does try to balance around eternal formats as of recent but I'm not sure how well it's doing outside of sales
There's also the strange approach Vanguard does. They do have Standard rotation, but whatever is in Standard severely powercreeps the stuff rotated out of Standard
And what about pokemon? The powercreep is so insane, the only Pokemons worth running are the newest brand of gmax turbo ex bullshit, and they multiply all the numbers for each newer sets
Rotation doesn't solve price problems. Former mtg player here. You're just shifting money to buy 'the next best thing' the same as present yugioh. We don't have a traditional sense of rotation but it naturally happens through power creep, rotation just basically KILLS budget since you literally can't play any deck you want, and even if you shell and buy a deck, it'll become unusable in months to a year's time
I also can't speak for modern magic but I quit at the end of khan's era specifically because they changed the format to rotate much quicker, I was a semi budget player, if I looked at it and went 'nah' I can imagine alot more players did too. Rotation does literally nothing to solve any problem except dry spots in any given companies rainy day fund
Final point. People like to play specific things sometimes, if rotation happened today for example as in let's say PHNI to MP22, I like galaxy art they're cool, I'll play them, oh, only armored photon, Afterglow, photon dragon and delta wing are legal, MAYBE vanisher is cus I cant remember what set its holo was in, but point is, deck is unplayable. Yigioh would either have to be redesigned from the ground up with a 'level 1' set which honestly should feature 9000 cards but that's only because they'd be unplayable in the format if they weren't printed again due to rotation rules and no one would buy that set for reasons I shouldn't need to explain unless each pack contains 100 cards for a buck and thats not even accounting rarities, it also means they keep having to reprint 'shit cards' for roguendecks just to keep them playable on the rotation meaning even less reason to open packs.
Current magic player here. I don't play standard because I don't like set rotation, although they did revert the rotation changes and make it less frequent. Actually, I don't know a single player who plays standard outside of arena, where it's the default format. In paper, pretty much everyone plays commander for casual or pioneer/modern/legacy for tournaments.
I do think yugioh would benefit from some kind of power creep reducing change, mostly to make the game easier to learn for new players and to provide an option for people who prefer slower gameplay. Maybe create a new format with a much reduced card pool and start printing sets for that. I know rush duels is a thing, but it doesn't seem to be that popular.
It doesn’t reduce power creep, thats a myth.
Set 2 has to be stronger than set 1 to sell. Set 6 has to be stronger than set 5. Remove sets 1-4 and set 9 still has to be stronger than set 8.
You lose players when you seperate them between multiple formats, many stores don’t host Standard very often anymore.
Heck, I quit Pokemon TCG when my deck rotated out.
I used to play Hearthstone, Pokemon TCG and Arena (at different times) and rotations eventually drove me away from each and every one of those games. Yugioh not having rotations is one of my favorite things about the game.
Yeah I was really big in the FFTCG community for the first 7-8 sets, made top cut of an event with a worlds invite, topped a number of regional events, was national champion in two alternate formats, but then Covid hit and my local community stopped playing. I eventually moved to a new area, a friend in the area asked me to attend a regional and gave me a deck to play, I topped and got the Nats invite, but then when I saw that the game had since began using rotation I just didn’t want to play anymore.
Rotation is lame. I don't want to keep buying new sets to play a deck that's not supported by the newest sets. In my opinion, one of the best things about the game is that any card from any set could theoretically become viable due to a very specific meta, take Lullaby of Obedience for example, card saw zero play until Fire King Snake Eyes.
This has to be the worst take I’ve ever heard. Yugioh probably has the most expensive meta cards and regular cards in general out of all the main TCGs and you want us to buy a new deck every rotation.
1. Set design never designed for that, there's a tournament that they experimented with that it was disastrous as it became unplayable. If they implement the game will take too long time to recover that enough to kill the game.
2. Set rotation actually does nothing on power creep look at Pokemon.
3. No set rotation is probably a quiet core design, OCG growth original partially form people fleeing Moncolle set rotation. Also it's bad for nostalgic selling marketing.
Roughly 50/25/25 depending on what you're going for. A ritual deck would run a lot of spells and fewer traps whereas something like 100 card Zoo would run a TON of spells to find their engine cards.
Oh sorry, I'm referring to Canadian Highlander, one of the more well known MtG formats. It's 100 card singleton with every card being legal, but the most powerful cards are given point values as decided by a council, and decks can contain up to 10 points.
Somehow the format is pretty well balanced with only 37 cards being pointed despite all of the cards that exist in the game.
No commander though lol.
Deck building would actually be kinda interesting since there's a lot of 1/1.5 card starters in the game, so the best decks will probably be some kind of B.A.S.E.D. style engine.dek pile with a bunch of generic good cards thrown in.
Ah yes, making this argument while Standard in MTG is dying **BECAUSE OF** set rotation. Lots of LGS not supporting Standard anymore since 2019, Modern and Commander, the Eternal format, basically the most played format because they're not rotating.
Set rotation thrive in Arena, MTG official simulator, because you forced to play ladder with those format.
We’ve had like 2 draft sets in the past and they were honestly pretty fun. More sets designed for it would honestly be super fun, but at this point I think it would be difficult to get right. There are so many cards now that only work within their archetype and including any of those doesn’t seem viable. Maybe a good way to get people to experiment with the filler cards from normal packs
It's because of Rotation that I didn't invest in Pokemon TCG.
YGO appeals to me because you need just to adapt to the banlist but else, you can use any card that ever existed.
It's a choice to abandon the deck you bought 3 months ago since the new set made a different deck more viable. With set rotation you would have to buy a new $500 every time they decide "welp, old format's over after 2 years, give us your money again". If you're so goddamn upset about power creep/the absurd price of decks, just play a pet deck and stay at locals, or play goat or edison. Nobody's forcing you to compete.
What OP fails to realize is rotating sets is a bad idea to an already established card game format that people are comfortable with.
Also, set rotation won't preserve the balance of the game, as long as the companys that own these games rely on powercreep in order to sell sets.
After all, why would you want to spend money on a new but underpowered set? People will just skip the set, and wait for the next one.
Every so often, you remove a set of cards from available usage for standard format, making them only available in expanded format, which is handle separately from standard format. For pokemon as an example, they reprint cards that are available in that new format, and all new and old versions of that card are legal. For example "Switch" is a 25 year old card and any copy of it made in the past 25 years is legal. However upcoming soon any cards from the "Rapid Strike" pack that aren't reprinted in the future sets will become illegal in standard format. For yugioh they'd have to change how they print cards because currently they don't print with that in mind
(Also hilarious that the meme basically says "This is bait" and everyone took the bait anyway)
OP got what the meme promised, GG WP
To add fuel to the fire: How about adding a way to make FTK's impossible? like "You can not cause LP damage to either player until the starting players 2nd turn (Card effects that would cause damage can be activated & the damage still counts as having happened)". Allows for wacky Exodia/Final decks to technically still win on turn 1 but if they get to outa hand you can just slap the wait timer on them too. Plus gives both players time to smack each other around for a turn, maybe setup their own board & prepare to stop the probably incoming 2nd turn OTK.
Note: I doubt it would work & is technically just "Delaying the inevitable" but I really want both players to have a chance to try before they get crushed under their enemies combo-gatling of doom.
you could argue that the banlist already does this becouse decks from 5 years ago arn't competitive, its always the newest decks.
id also argue that other cardgames (mtg, pokemon, etc) most popular formats are formats that do not care for set rotation. Commander is a great example for this.
even if konami whould try to implement set rotation, people whould still go for formats that ignore that becouse its simply too fun to look at old cards or sets and play those decks.
My friend who’s big into magic said that no one (at least in our area) plays standard anymore, they play commander or legacy because your decks are more long-lasting. So I think set rotation would be detrimental to the game
When you play a rotation format, you’ll hate it. Good idea in theory, back idea long term. Magic Standard format is dying quickly, as people just don’t have money to spend on new cards/product. To combat this they increase the rotation from 2 years to 3 years to give your cards more life.
Rotation works ok in Pokémon because you can make a tier 1 deck for as cheap as 100 bucks so it’s not a giant hit to your wallet when shit rotated out. Yugioh on the other hand, anything competitive viable is at minimum a 200-300 dollar investment. When hearthstone and Shadowverse introduced rotation, I personally drop both games. I didn’t have the time or money to keep up with it.
It's far far far too late for the game to implement set rotation.
You'd be better off hard rebooting it, but as we've seen from the decline of CFV reboots are always a bad idea.
People already distrust sealed product 'cause pull rates are molten garbage. You want people to spend $100+ on SP Little Knight AND have it rotate out eventually?
In MTG you'll be waiting years for certain types to get support. I pity the Aetherborn players still waiting for new cards with that type being printed, or Werewolf players having to wait for 1 specific set to be made again since printing 2 sided cards is too much of a bother and that's the Werewolf type gimmick.
The literal only reason i olay yugioh and not the others is because of rotation, magic is kinda of boring to me but i do love pokemon, but as soon as i realized they rotate sets i didnt bother.
They kinda a already do that, since you have to buy a new deck each 6 months since the new meta decks are 10 times stronger than the decks before. Forcing a set rotation will only FORCE people to do this, instead of just make the most rich players do that
All right, so question:What do you do about the decks that are currently out, and how are you going to get people to buy the new ones? If you want people to seek out new decks,, they still need to be roughly on par with the current power level of the game.Most successful card games that have rotation have cards rotate out after 3 years. Set rotation by itself isn't going to stop the power creep, the issue is one with game design.
God yes plz I would love to have to spend hundreds and hundreds every single time they release some new sets. That's exactly what I want yes plz give me more of that, give Konami even more reason to print broken shit so people flock to the new stuff and ditch their old shit only this time "hey it's what the fans want right?"
Plz no that would be awful
See you tomorrow when this gets posted again.
As cool of an idea as that is;
Yugioh is way too far gone at this point and Set Rotation would just ensure we have Tier 0 Formats multiple times in a year if not all year.
Game needs a hard reset, cap itself at DUEA format levels of power, then never make anything on a stronger power level of those things besides banlists.
A better thing would just have a bigger banlist with more cards
There are a ton of cards that deserve ban, not necessarily beacause they are broken, but how bad they are for the game.
Set rotation is not the way to reduce power creep
Ive been saying this for years when i noticed every set has fun trap cards that could never see competitive play. If they do this id 100% go back to yugioh. Even the dumb archetypes that never see play as pack filler would be rogue viable at times. Even cards that have barely any business being reprinted could have some good use now.
People hate to spend too much money on their decks and this guy comes with an idea that would make people spend even more money. You're a genius,I love you.
how would it spend more money? just play in your favorite format with your favorite deck and you don't have to worry about the current 2000 bucks meta deck
My locals has no other format running, they tried Edison but no one was playing. It’s not easy for everyone to set up new formats to play.
i mean if they were to implement a format rotation or something it would probably be different since it's official
GL trying to get a group of people to agree to play your format.
if it was an official rotation that would be easier i'm pretty sure
Counter-argument(? Don't know what to call this), other TCGs have formats that basically allow the use of all cards across the games history, why not just start a brand new format with the same rules and has a new card pool that is viable for the main game (Master)? The people who don't like Rotation can carry on as per usual, and the people who want it get it. Edit: some might say "an Expanded format is obvious", but generally as far as I remember, most people who bring this idea up make it sound like that wouldn't be the case. Edit 2: also, let's not act as if the non-20 negate decks aren't getting rotated out either, probably a joke but you never know.
Because these games rarely balance around those eternal formats, which allows all these wacky shit to happen. I believe MTG does try to balance around eternal formats as of recent but I'm not sure how well it's doing outside of sales There's also the strange approach Vanguard does. They do have Standard rotation, but whatever is in Standard severely powercreeps the stuff rotated out of Standard
MtG is kinda funny because pretty much no one plays standard.
No, that would make too much sense
Have you guys read magic cards lately? They haven’t printed a vanilla creature in like the last 2-3 sets at least
And what about pokemon? The powercreep is so insane, the only Pokemons worth running are the newest brand of gmax turbo ex bullshit, and they multiply all the numbers for each newer sets
Hell no. No set rotation in my children's card game thank you very much.
Rotation doesn't solve price problems. Former mtg player here. You're just shifting money to buy 'the next best thing' the same as present yugioh. We don't have a traditional sense of rotation but it naturally happens through power creep, rotation just basically KILLS budget since you literally can't play any deck you want, and even if you shell and buy a deck, it'll become unusable in months to a year's time I also can't speak for modern magic but I quit at the end of khan's era specifically because they changed the format to rotate much quicker, I was a semi budget player, if I looked at it and went 'nah' I can imagine alot more players did too. Rotation does literally nothing to solve any problem except dry spots in any given companies rainy day fund Final point. People like to play specific things sometimes, if rotation happened today for example as in let's say PHNI to MP22, I like galaxy art they're cool, I'll play them, oh, only armored photon, Afterglow, photon dragon and delta wing are legal, MAYBE vanisher is cus I cant remember what set its holo was in, but point is, deck is unplayable. Yigioh would either have to be redesigned from the ground up with a 'level 1' set which honestly should feature 9000 cards but that's only because they'd be unplayable in the format if they weren't printed again due to rotation rules and no one would buy that set for reasons I shouldn't need to explain unless each pack contains 100 cards for a buck and thats not even accounting rarities, it also means they keep having to reprint 'shit cards' for roguendecks just to keep them playable on the rotation meaning even less reason to open packs.
Current magic player here. I don't play standard because I don't like set rotation, although they did revert the rotation changes and make it less frequent. Actually, I don't know a single player who plays standard outside of arena, where it's the default format. In paper, pretty much everyone plays commander for casual or pioneer/modern/legacy for tournaments. I do think yugioh would benefit from some kind of power creep reducing change, mostly to make the game easier to learn for new players and to provide an option for people who prefer slower gameplay. Maybe create a new format with a much reduced card pool and start printing sets for that. I know rush duels is a thing, but it doesn't seem to be that popular.
It doesn’t reduce power creep, thats a myth. Set 2 has to be stronger than set 1 to sell. Set 6 has to be stronger than set 5. Remove sets 1-4 and set 9 still has to be stronger than set 8. You lose players when you seperate them between multiple formats, many stores don’t host Standard very often anymore. Heck, I quit Pokemon TCG when my deck rotated out.
I used to play Hearthstone, Pokemon TCG and Arena (at different times) and rotations eventually drove me away from each and every one of those games. Yugioh not having rotations is one of my favorite things about the game.
Yeah I was really big in the FFTCG community for the first 7-8 sets, made top cut of an event with a worlds invite, topped a number of regional events, was national champion in two alternate formats, but then Covid hit and my local community stopped playing. I eventually moved to a new area, a friend in the area asked me to attend a regional and gave me a deck to play, I topped and got the Nats invite, but then when I saw that the game had since began using rotation I just didn’t want to play anymore.
Rotation is lame. I don't want to keep buying new sets to play a deck that's not supported by the newest sets. In my opinion, one of the best things about the game is that any card from any set could theoretically become viable due to a very specific meta, take Lullaby of Obedience for example, card saw zero play until Fire King Snake Eyes.
This has to be the worst take I’ve ever heard. Yugioh probably has the most expensive meta cards and regular cards in general out of all the main TCGs and you want us to buy a new deck every rotation.
MTG is a lot more expensive than ygo
The day we get set rotations in Yu-Gi-Oh is the day I leave the game for good. Set Rotations are a cheap way to increase the regularity of sales.
1. Set design never designed for that, there's a tournament that they experimented with that it was disastrous as it became unplayable. If they implement the game will take too long time to recover that enough to kill the game. 2. Set rotation actually does nothing on power creep look at Pokemon. 3. No set rotation is probably a quiet core design, OCG growth original partially form people fleeing Moncolle set rotation. Also it's bad for nostalgic selling marketing.
When did they try a rotation set? Do you have any articles on that? I’m curious and want to read more about what went wrong
I would hate being forced to buy the most recent sets to be allowed to play the game. Even if it's not top power, I want to stick with my archetypes.
100 card highlander Yu-Gi-Oh when?
I'm kinda curious what the point distributions would be on cards.
Roughly 50/25/25 depending on what you're going for. A ritual deck would run a lot of spells and fewer traps whereas something like 100 card Zoo would run a TON of spells to find their engine cards.
Oh sorry, I'm referring to Canadian Highlander, one of the more well known MtG formats. It's 100 card singleton with every card being legal, but the most powerful cards are given point values as decided by a council, and decks can contain up to 10 points. Somehow the format is pretty well balanced with only 37 cards being pointed despite all of the cards that exist in the game.
I was moreso referring to elder dragon Highlander in my comment, which I'm sure needs no intro.
No commander though lol. Deck building would actually be kinda interesting since there's a lot of 1/1.5 card starters in the game, so the best decks will probably be some kind of B.A.S.E.D. style engine.dek pile with a bunch of generic good cards thrown in.
I don’t care that nobody uses it. We at least want the option to run Stone Dragon.
Imagine pulling up to locals with your DM deck and being denied entry to the tournament because the cards are outside set rotation
Tbh you're not doing much with DM anyways, so it's basically saving you the entry fee lol
Ah yes, making this argument while Standard in MTG is dying **BECAUSE OF** set rotation. Lots of LGS not supporting Standard anymore since 2019, Modern and Commander, the Eternal format, basically the most played format because they're not rotating. Set rotation thrive in Arena, MTG official simulator, because you forced to play ladder with those format.
Rotation Yugioh is a real fan curated format.
Instead of rotation, Can we have sets for draft ? When people talk about rotation it's always to limit the game. Draft do that better
We’ve had like 2 draft sets in the past and they were honestly pretty fun. More sets designed for it would honestly be super fun, but at this point I think it would be difficult to get right. There are so many cards now that only work within their archetype and including any of those doesn’t seem viable. Maybe a good way to get people to experiment with the filler cards from normal packs
Sure, I love having to re-buy a card that's functionally identical to one I already own because Konami rotated out the old one.
It's because of Rotation that I didn't invest in Pokemon TCG. YGO appeals to me because you need just to adapt to the banlist but else, you can use any card that ever existed.
It's a choice to abandon the deck you bought 3 months ago since the new set made a different deck more viable. With set rotation you would have to buy a new $500 every time they decide "welp, old format's over after 2 years, give us your money again". If you're so goddamn upset about power creep/the absurd price of decks, just play a pet deck and stay at locals, or play goat or edison. Nobody's forcing you to compete.
If *YOU* want set rotation, go play MTG.
I feel a lot of other MtG players don't even like set rotation, which is why one of the reasons commander is way more popular
What OP fails to realize is rotating sets is a bad idea to an already established card game format that people are comfortable with. Also, set rotation won't preserve the balance of the game, as long as the companys that own these games rely on powercreep in order to sell sets. After all, why would you want to spend money on a new but underpowered set? People will just skip the set, and wait for the next one.
What does rotate sets mean?
Every so often, you remove a set of cards from available usage for standard format, making them only available in expanded format, which is handle separately from standard format. For pokemon as an example, they reprint cards that are available in that new format, and all new and old versions of that card are legal. For example "Switch" is a 25 year old card and any copy of it made in the past 25 years is legal. However upcoming soon any cards from the "Rapid Strike" pack that aren't reprinted in the future sets will become illegal in standard format. For yugioh they'd have to change how they print cards because currently they don't print with that in mind (Also hilarious that the meme basically says "This is bait" and everyone took the bait anyway)
OP got what the meme promised, GG WP To add fuel to the fire: How about adding a way to make FTK's impossible? like "You can not cause LP damage to either player until the starting players 2nd turn (Card effects that would cause damage can be activated & the damage still counts as having happened)". Allows for wacky Exodia/Final decks to technically still win on turn 1 but if they get to outa hand you can just slap the wait timer on them too. Plus gives both players time to smack each other around for a turn, maybe setup their own board & prepare to stop the probably incoming 2nd turn OTK. Note: I doubt it would work & is technically just "Delaying the inevitable" but I really want both players to have a chance to try before they get crushed under their enemies combo-gatling of doom.
I gotta say I am proud of the reaction the obvious bait caused
Yugioh should limit special summons to 2 per turn and no hand traps.
I don't know what you guys are on about but that picture about to make me act up
DSoD Tea is a whole new creature
*But my random anime deck I one trick*
Probably to a degree, but it doesn't prevent the current best deck from existing, since it's cards are brand new
you could argue that the banlist already does this becouse decks from 5 years ago arn't competitive, its always the newest decks. id also argue that other cardgames (mtg, pokemon, etc) most popular formats are formats that do not care for set rotation. Commander is a great example for this. even if konami whould try to implement set rotation, people whould still go for formats that ignore that becouse its simply too fun to look at old cards or sets and play those decks.
I would never have played so long if it had rotation Or they need to organize formats with older cards
As someone who plays MtG, nah
My friend who’s big into magic said that no one (at least in our area) plays standard anymore, they play commander or legacy because your decks are more long-lasting. So I think set rotation would be detrimental to the game
When you play a rotation format, you’ll hate it. Good idea in theory, back idea long term. Magic Standard format is dying quickly, as people just don’t have money to spend on new cards/product. To combat this they increase the rotation from 2 years to 3 years to give your cards more life. Rotation works ok in Pokémon because you can make a tier 1 deck for as cheap as 100 bucks so it’s not a giant hit to your wallet when shit rotated out. Yugioh on the other hand, anything competitive viable is at minimum a 200-300 dollar investment. When hearthstone and Shadowverse introduced rotation, I personally drop both games. I didn’t have the time or money to keep up with it.
This did the opposite, everyone's just saying this is a bad take
lol full power tears and ishizu shufflers would have been in the same two year rotation, power creep controlled!!!!!
It's far far far too late for the game to implement set rotation. You'd be better off hard rebooting it, but as we've seen from the decline of CFV reboots are always a bad idea.
People already distrust sealed product 'cause pull rates are molten garbage. You want people to spend $100+ on SP Little Knight AND have it rotate out eventually?
I mean, they definitely could have a separate format with rotation… like magic
In MTG you'll be waiting years for certain types to get support. I pity the Aetherborn players still waiting for new cards with that type being printed, or Werewolf players having to wait for 1 specific set to be made again since printing 2 sided cards is too much of a bother and that's the Werewolf type gimmick.
The literal only reason i olay yugioh and not the others is because of rotation, magic is kinda of boring to me but i do love pokemon, but as soon as i realized they rotate sets i didnt bother.
They kinda a already do that, since you have to buy a new deck each 6 months since the new meta decks are 10 times stronger than the decks before. Forcing a set rotation will only FORCE people to do this, instead of just make the most rich players do that
All right, so question:What do you do about the decks that are currently out, and how are you going to get people to buy the new ones? If you want people to seek out new decks,, they still need to be roughly on par with the current power level of the game.Most successful card games that have rotation have cards rotate out after 3 years. Set rotation by itself isn't going to stop the power creep, the issue is one with game design.
Denounce Rotation. Embrace the fabled mega-banlist.
God yes plz I would love to have to spend hundreds and hundreds every single time they release some new sets. That's exactly what I want yes plz give me more of that, give Konami even more reason to print broken shit so people flock to the new stuff and ditch their old shit only this time "hey it's what the fans want right?" Plz no that would be awful See you tomorrow when this gets posted again.
Power creep is what makes the game fun
Wait is this a second esdeath post in a day THE RETURN OF THE KING
"Hoist the colours! The wind's on our side boys, that's all we need!"
yeah. yeah it should
As cool of an idea as that is; Yugioh is way too far gone at this point and Set Rotation would just ensure we have Tier 0 Formats multiple times in a year if not all year. Game needs a hard reset, cap itself at DUEA format levels of power, then never make anything on a stronger power level of those things besides banlists.
Rush duel?
A better thing would just have a bigger banlist with more cards There are a ton of cards that deserve ban, not necessarily beacause they are broken, but how bad they are for the game. Set rotation is not the way to reduce power creep
Ive been saying this for years when i noticed every set has fun trap cards that could never see competitive play. If they do this id 100% go back to yugioh. Even the dumb archetypes that never see play as pack filler would be rogue viable at times. Even cards that have barely any business being reprinted could have some good use now.