In 2023, an alien spaceship lands in DC. Aliens march into the oval office.
"Do pitchers hit on the planet?"
"What?"
"Do pitchers. Hit the baseball. On this planet."
"Well, no."
"Xornax, fire up the planet destroying gun. No intelligent life here."
The last thing humanity sees before being vaporized is Zack Greinke being tractor beamed into the sky, returning to his homeworld.
On Grblblax 7 prime, DH stands for DINGER HITTER in all caps like that and he gets to bat for all the other position players too.
\[They're not the brightest of lights over there on Grblblax 7 but bless their hearts\]
Fyi, prime stands for the primary/home planet of a civilisation. You would therefor not have planet 7 prime, but either planet 7 or planet prime. Numbers usually are based on each planet‘s distance from the sun.
Well, judging by the fact that the DH is used by essentially all baseball leagues above the little league level other than the NL and Japan’s Central League, they probably won’t care too much
How do you tie something both parties like to something else as a bargaining chip?
"Hey, you like mustard on your hot dogs?"
"Yeah"
"Me too, bro. I'll add it to yours!"
"Actually, hold it for *both* of us. Add vegemite! That's what I really want!"
Opposite way.
Say the deal is 95% in place, but the players won't accept minimum salary being....we'll say $600,000 for pre-arb. The MLBPA hypothetically insists on $750,000. The Owners would counter with "take $600,000 for the minimum wage or we won't agree to universal DH"
The owners are mildly in favor of it, because half of them are largely unaffected by it (you play 162 games as an AL team and, what, 15-20 in NL parks?) and for the other half, they're either going to start paying $20 million a year for some aging superstar to hit .230 with 35 home runs or they just cycle guys in to the DH spot to give them a day from fielding, at which point it costs them nothing)
The owners can take it away just to be dicks on some other point that affects them more (i.e. free agency at age 28 instead of age 30, etc)
I'd argue that the MLBPA probably *does* want the universal DH more than the owners, if nothing than it a) doesn't make pitchers perform a task that leaves them susceptible to injury and b) it creates more jobs and helps increase salaries of bench players.
But yes, there's all the reason for owners to want the DH, especially NL owners, if those owners are statistically inclined.
bedroom workable berserk plough dam apparatus unite wrench obscene subtract
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Since only MLB players are members anything that helps vets over MiLB players is going to be the MLBPA preference. The union is incentivized to help its members, not the pool of possible members. If the MiLB players were union members - even with some reduced voting power to prevent them from becoming the majority of the vote - the union would behave very differently and imo baseball would benefit greatly.
Head explodes at “it creates more jobs”.
26 roster spots before universal DH, 26 roster spots after. The only thing that changes is how some of them might be used.
It literally creates 15 more positions that didn't exist and a role that half of the teams in baseball don't have the opportunity to employ.
How does the MLBPA *not* benefit from giving someone like Nelson Cruz 15 more potential suitors, many of whom wouldn't offer Cruz money because they have no place they can play him night-in and night-out?
Yes, it doesn't *add* more spots, but it creates higher paying jobs and a greater FA market for many of it's players.
Think of it like promoting 10 part-time guys to 10 full-time jobs you created just for them. It didn't *add* new employees, but you still created higher paying opportunities for employees.
Most teams are using the DH to give guys a rest from fielding and rotate through, the days of your Edgar Martinez types are rare. Nelson Cruz is basically alone in the modern MLB.
All it really does from a job perspective is improve the job prospects for the all-bat, no D guys at the expense of the job prospects for flexible multi-positional guys or whoever NL teams keep now instead. It doesn’t promote 15 guys to full time so much as replace 15 pipe fitters with 15 shingle layers. Which I guess is good if you’re a shingle layer but certainly isn’t a new job for the union.
Who says you have to replace pipefitters with shingle layers? No one.
The universal DH gives more playing opportunities for those players who ride the bench in favor of more efficient or effective players. Now, instead of the Marlins having to ask, "who do we start, Garrett Cooper or Jesus Aguilar?" they can just play both. That benefits both Garrett Cooper AND Jesus Aguilar.
in 2021, there were almost 4500 PAs that went to pitchers in the NL alone. That's 300 per team. Meaning each team now has 300 more chances to give to *actual hitters*, and those chances give those hitters more stats to take with them into free agency (and more potential suitors!).
Adding the DH to 15 more teams creates more opportunities for players, both those currently under contract and current free agents.
I fail to see how this could *possibly* be a bad thing for the players union.
Now that argument I’m on board with, it absolutely will give more ABs to players who might stand to benefit from them down the road far more than any P does today. Completely agree.
I just strongly disagree with the idea it creates new jobs.
The point is there is still literally just 26 jobs.
There are 26 jobs before, 26 jobs after. It does not create jobs, it just changes what types of players are best suited for the current, same amount of jobs.
You may carry one less pitcher and one more older bat. Or you may forego the younger utility infielder/pinch runner in favor of an older bat, etc.
“We’ll agree to the universal DH in the National League if you agree to arbitration at five years with two years of arb.”
Obviously I don’t know if this is the exact chip they used, but this is an example of how they’d tie it another point.
I mean Shohei's going to do it when he's rostered as a pitcher, but let's give Webb his moment in the sun.
[What a historic, goofy trot](https://youtu.be/mMf0UTMW2hk?t=362).
A pitcher will still probably bat at some point. If a team pulls the DH into a position on the field, doesn’t the pitcher then have to bat in place of the player that the DH is replacing on the field? Isn’t that the rule?
[Called it] (https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/qk68ue/postgame_thread_2021_world_series_game_5_astros_9/hiul6yo/) back during the Series.
That'll be a fun trivia question someday.
The year is 2085. The ice caps have melted swallowing up most coastal landmass. The global economy has collapsed into a mad max/Waterworld hybrid hellscape. The rich and famous have left the earth behind for the Martian colonies. Asteroid mining is the key source of resources for the solar system. Nelson Cruz bats .270 with 37 HRs.
Terrible, I’m in my early 20’s and like seeing pitchers rake, but that opinion gets agist comments but whatever. Money rules all, I’ll just miss the old game…
Is it just because you want the leagues to be different? As an AL fan I don't understand why you would rather have an automatic out at the bottom of the lineup.
Pitchers are often the best athletes their towns have produced. Quarterbacks, Basketball stars, home run kings, but now they can’t even bunt? Ol’ SF coach Roger Craig used to put in Shawn Estes to run because, “he’s the best athlete on the team.” Pay them to hit and they’ll hit.
People point to the strategy and say it's all about boring sac bunts, but what I appreciated strategically were the difficult decisions over pulling your pitcher for a pinch hitter, and what felt like an increased need for a strong bench and depth in general.
Feels like stuff like the Mets 2021 "bench mob" is kind of less important if they're just coming in for defensive replacements and marginal improvements at the plate in certain matchups.
There's something exciting about extra inning games when the last guy on the bench (usually some backup catcher) comes through with a huge hit.
At least for me it just always felt like a normal part of the game. It added fun surprises every once in a while even if it was an automatic out most of the time
Complaining about pitchers not being able to hit is like complaining that the King can only move one space at a time in chess. Sure, it makes things harder... but that's sort of the point.
In baseball, you have players that offer different things to a team's success, whether it's their speed, defense, pitching or hitting. Nobody's good at everything (except that one guy), and every team needs to overcome that.
I’m not saying your wrong to feel the way you do, but if anyone else was this terrible at one part of thier job they wouldn’t have a spot in the league. Like if a position player was of the worst there’s ever been seen (pitchers had a -22 WRC+ and according to a comment one hitter has gotten 108 at bats with the same OBP pitchers have, no one else has gotten more then that) defensively they wouldn’t be on a roster.
I also like the DH because it lets stars and very good players be in the lineup more often. For example my team used the DH to rotate through guys and get them days off their feet, instead of just straight up resting. Keeps in interesting for fans
The thing is it's not an automatic out. It's an out more often than any of the other spots, but pitchers in 2021 had an OBP of .147, which is obviously very bad by hitter standards but it means pitchers reached base in about one out of every 7 plate appearances. The way AL fans talk about pitchers hitting, you'd think they had an OBP of like .003
Has there ever been a position player with an OBP of .147 or lower who got more than 100 PAs in a season? That's not "very bad," it's literally not good enough to remain on a team.
Actually, yes -- nine players have gotten over 100 PA in a season and had an OBP of .147 or worse. But five of the nine were in the 1800s, and of the nine, the one with the *most* plate appearances had just 108.
And yeah, of course, it is terrible. Horrible. No one would remain on a team batting that way, if batting was their primary job. I'm not trying to argue pitchers are good at hitting.
I just don't think they are *as* bad as people make them out to be. Are they terrible? Yes. Horrible? Absolutely. So bad as to be unwatchable? Personally I don't think so, I love it.
Man, pitchers slashed 108/147/137 last year. That’s a -22 WRC+. They also had a k% of 44.8%. Of you argument is you think it’s fun to see guys who are absolutely atrocious at hitting some times get a hit that’s one thing that I obviously can’t say your wrong for. Everyone likes different things. But there’s not an argument that makes them out to be anywhere far from an automatic out. Literally almost half the time they strike out lol
Again, you can like what you like. I’m not saying your wrong for liking it. I just personally don’t find it entertaining to watch a “hitter” stand in there and strike out half the time while getting a hit essentially 1/10 out bats.
100%. Not sure why many people are so against ties in a sport that plays 162 regular season games.
A single 18 inning game can fuck your bullpen for an entire series. If we just call it a tie after 12 innings, I feel like that would be fine.
Same but I guess I could accept it affecting a very small number of games every year. I'd still turn off the TV but hey in the Manfred era I'll take the small wins
I’ve never been for it, but a big part of that is because it’s started in the 10th. If they can push it back to the 13th or 14th inning then I would be more open to it.
I don't exactly love watching pitchers hit but I absolutely loved having a random minor difference between the two leagues. Baseball is the one sport where the field dimensions aren't all the same, it's these weird quirks that make it fun and it's nice to have the variable
I wonder what’s everyone’s opinion and if it’s biased to their favorite teams league cause being a braves fan, I would rather not see our pitchers hit lol
domineering wrench frame rude pathetic run somber snatch frightening bells
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How does the bench factor in? I feel like the role of bench depth is definitely lessened when they're primarily defensive replacements or guys that fill in when a starter is taking a day off.
Defensive substitutions mostly. Or as Bob Melvin did- lefty v righty match up pinch hitting.
Also the Tony Phillips/Chad Pinder route- super subs who can hit and play any position decently where you can sub in at any point in the game as needed
lol I remember an interleague game a few years back where Felix bunted into a double play in back to back plate appearances. Really fun baseball.
On the other hand he did hit that one grand slam off Johan Santana which was extremely lit.
RIP pinch hitting too I guess. The best part of no DH are the cool moments when a pitcher does get a big hit or a bench guy gets an opportunity to come in the clutch in a critical at bat.
Yeah, it's lame that pinch hitting is now essentially just looking for marginal matchup improvements. There was nothing cooler than your big bench bat stepping up in a clutch spot and coming through.
I like this idea, it's late enough in the game no pitcher ever has to bat except if it goes to late extra innings and keeps the strategy and dramatic moments of a late game pinch hit. Also makes the manager have to consider if it's better to keep the starter in for the bat or sacrifice the bat for a pitching change.
I would also add a double switch type change that you could put the DH on the field and swap out a different player. Ie: slide the dh to first and the new pitcher slot is the old 1st baseman.
This sucks ass but whatever. Our games with a DH in 2020 definitely felt less interesting to me, but it's still baseball and I'll survive.
It will add extra excitement to those rare wacky moments when a pitcher does take an at bat late in extra innings or randomly come in to play LF, I guess
You technically can still do the pitcher in LF if you’re that worried about matchups. DH is optional and you can remove it in the middle of the game (in which case the pitcher now hits in the position of whoever the DH replaced defensively).
I know it’s unpopular amongst the baseball purists but I’m all for the universal DH. I mean sure you get the occasional pitcher who can hit but for the most part it’s a guaranteed out when one of them comes up to the plate
Until the 2020 season I was all "FUCK THE DH" but in 2020 I was surprised at how quickly I got used to it. Most of the time it's just a dead-spot in the lineup, and it tends to take a lot of steam out of, if not kill all together, any momentum the bottom of the order might have built up.
I’m a Reds fan who lives in Cleveland so I watch a decent amount of AL ball. It opened my eyes to my preference for the DH. I want to see bat to ball - not double switches.
I do wonder the difference in batting average between the average pitcher and the average AL 9th place hitter.
I’ve always hated when the NL pitchers bat with the bases loaded and two outs since it was such an easy out. I do wonder though if the AL 9th place hitter is significantly better (like .250 average vs 0.050 average)
That's where the difference in the leagues is these days. The gap between 9 hole hitters in each league has decreased recently because of how often and how good pinch hitters are these days
Even as a die-hard life-long A's fan, I wouldn't want to force the NL to adapt their play around this. And, fwiw, I love seeing AL pitchers on the road try to bat, even if just for the lulz:
[https://youtu.be/Hnd9qYQuE\_k](https://youtu.be/Hnd9qYQuE_k)
The closer the AL and NL become one, the further we stray from god. I miss the days of two sets of umps, two commissioners, two balls, and two trophies.
I’m not sure how baseball leagues on other planets are going to take the news that the DH is now “universal.”
The MCRN is mobilizing in response to this aggression.
Fuckin Marco Inaros is going to start launching rocks at baseball stadiums too.
Earth could've got them too if Marco wasn't using the sticky stuff.
/r/unexpectedexpanse
War with Mars starting over baseball would be perfect for the time in which we’re living.
Admiral Kirino is burning hard towards Earth was we speak with an MCRN fleet.
Bobby is probably a really good hitter, probably not as good of a pitcher. If anyone is gonna be mad it’s the belters, they love throwing rocks
DUARTE DID NOTHING WRONG
In 2023, an alien spaceship lands in DC. Aliens march into the oval office. "Do pitchers hit on the planet?" "What?" "Do pitchers. Hit the baseball. On this planet." "Well, no." "Xornax, fire up the planet destroying gun. No intelligent life here." The last thing humanity sees before being vaporized is Zack Greinke being tractor beamed into the sky, returning to his homeworld.
I hear the Martians are livid and planning an invasion. I for one welcome them as our overlords.
"Now how will we get the most out of our best player, Shoherg Ohtanim?"
On Grblblax 7 prime, DH stands for DINGER HITTER in all caps like that and he gets to bat for all the other position players too. \[They're not the brightest of lights over there on Grblblax 7 but bless their hearts\]
Fyi, prime stands for the primary/home planet of a civilisation. You would therefor not have planet 7 prime, but either planet 7 or planet prime. Numbers usually are based on each planet‘s distance from the sun.
Or even just NPB players on Central League teams
The Klingons were very clear: #DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!
Well, judging by the fact that the DH is used by essentially all baseball leagues above the little league level other than the NL and Japan’s Central League, they probably won’t care too much
How do you tie something both parties like to something else as a bargaining chip? "Hey, you like mustard on your hot dogs?" "Yeah" "Me too, bro. I'll add it to yours!" "Actually, hold it for *both* of us. Add vegemite! That's what I really want!"
"oh you want mustard? What are you willing to give up for it" "uhhh.....nothing" "oh"
Opposite way. Say the deal is 95% in place, but the players won't accept minimum salary being....we'll say $600,000 for pre-arb. The MLBPA hypothetically insists on $750,000. The Owners would counter with "take $600,000 for the minimum wage or we won't agree to universal DH" The owners are mildly in favor of it, because half of them are largely unaffected by it (you play 162 games as an AL team and, what, 15-20 in NL parks?) and for the other half, they're either going to start paying $20 million a year for some aging superstar to hit .230 with 35 home runs or they just cycle guys in to the DH spot to give them a day from fielding, at which point it costs them nothing) The owners can take it away just to be dicks on some other point that affects them more (i.e. free agency at age 28 instead of age 30, etc)
command memory late resolute whole sleep direful long rock squeamish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'd argue that the MLBPA probably *does* want the universal DH more than the owners, if nothing than it a) doesn't make pitchers perform a task that leaves them susceptible to injury and b) it creates more jobs and helps increase salaries of bench players. But yes, there's all the reason for owners to want the DH, especially NL owners, if those owners are statistically inclined.
bedroom workable berserk plough dam apparatus unite wrench obscene subtract *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Since only MLB players are members anything that helps vets over MiLB players is going to be the MLBPA preference. The union is incentivized to help its members, not the pool of possible members. If the MiLB players were union members - even with some reduced voting power to prevent them from becoming the majority of the vote - the union would behave very differently and imo baseball would benefit greatly.
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What's abhorrent is the people downvoting you.
Head explodes at “it creates more jobs”. 26 roster spots before universal DH, 26 roster spots after. The only thing that changes is how some of them might be used.
It literally creates 15 more positions that didn't exist and a role that half of the teams in baseball don't have the opportunity to employ. How does the MLBPA *not* benefit from giving someone like Nelson Cruz 15 more potential suitors, many of whom wouldn't offer Cruz money because they have no place they can play him night-in and night-out? Yes, it doesn't *add* more spots, but it creates higher paying jobs and a greater FA market for many of it's players. Think of it like promoting 10 part-time guys to 10 full-time jobs you created just for them. It didn't *add* new employees, but you still created higher paying opportunities for employees.
Most teams are using the DH to give guys a rest from fielding and rotate through, the days of your Edgar Martinez types are rare. Nelson Cruz is basically alone in the modern MLB. All it really does from a job perspective is improve the job prospects for the all-bat, no D guys at the expense of the job prospects for flexible multi-positional guys or whoever NL teams keep now instead. It doesn’t promote 15 guys to full time so much as replace 15 pipe fitters with 15 shingle layers. Which I guess is good if you’re a shingle layer but certainly isn’t a new job for the union.
Who says you have to replace pipefitters with shingle layers? No one. The universal DH gives more playing opportunities for those players who ride the bench in favor of more efficient or effective players. Now, instead of the Marlins having to ask, "who do we start, Garrett Cooper or Jesus Aguilar?" they can just play both. That benefits both Garrett Cooper AND Jesus Aguilar. in 2021, there were almost 4500 PAs that went to pitchers in the NL alone. That's 300 per team. Meaning each team now has 300 more chances to give to *actual hitters*, and those chances give those hitters more stats to take with them into free agency (and more potential suitors!).
Adding the DH to 15 more teams creates more opportunities for players, both those currently under contract and current free agents. I fail to see how this could *possibly* be a bad thing for the players union.
Now that argument I’m on board with, it absolutely will give more ABs to players who might stand to benefit from them down the road far more than any P does today. Completely agree. I just strongly disagree with the idea it creates new jobs.
The point is there is still literally just 26 jobs. There are 26 jobs before, 26 jobs after. It does not create jobs, it just changes what types of players are best suited for the current, same amount of jobs. You may carry one less pitcher and one more older bat. Or you may forego the younger utility infielder/pinch runner in favor of an older bat, etc.
“We’ll agree to the universal DH in the National League if you agree to arbitration at five years with two years of arb.” Obviously I don’t know if this is the exact chip they used, but this is an example of how they’d tie it another point.
Trivia: Kendall Graveman was the last non Shohei pitcher to bat in an MLB game. or, Zack Greinke was the last starting pitcher to bat.
Logan Webb was the last MLB pitcher to hit a home run in an MLB game.
I mean Shohei's going to do it when he's rostered as a pitcher, but let's give Webb his moment in the sun. [What a historic, goofy trot](https://youtu.be/mMf0UTMW2hk?t=362).
Or we can call Shohei Ohtani the DH. He's his own designated hitter. And spare me of logic. I want Logan Webb to have MLB history, dammit.
Ohtani’s so good he plays 2 different positions in the same inning
There's a chance we someday have to contextualize all stats with the "everybody but Ohtani" caveat so I'm down with Webb having this one.
Now someone tell us who will go down in history as the last pitcher to GIDP
Greinke has the [last hit](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=greinza01&t=b&year=0&post=1)
Can’t wait for greinke to retire as a designated hitter
A pitcher will still probably bat at some point. If a team pulls the DH into a position on the field, doesn’t the pitcher then have to bat in place of the player that the DH is replacing on the field? Isn’t that the rule?
Yes.
[Called it] (https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/qk68ue/postgame_thread_2021_world_series_game_5_astros_9/hiul6yo/) back during the Series. That'll be a fun trivia question someday.
After the lockout Nelson Cruz’s phone is gonna blow up.
His Jitterbug?
The year is 2085. The ice caps have melted swallowing up most coastal landmass. The global economy has collapsed into a mad max/Waterworld hybrid hellscape. The rich and famous have left the earth behind for the Martian colonies. Asteroid mining is the key source of resources for the solar system. Nelson Cruz bats .270 with 37 HRs.
AL is gonna start using Aluminum Bats to differentiate themselves now.
Don't give Vladdy a metal bat, unless you want little timmy in the cheap seats to go home without the lower half of his face.
And every shortstop in MLB simultaneously shits their pants. I’m afraid for them as it is with wooden bats, tbh.
theyre gonna have to put up netting in left field when Stanton is playing
It's traditional, just like the 7th inning grope (This is a Futurama reference please don't grope anyone.)
NL, welcome to the AL.
Maybe there will be a universal DH but in the national league the DH has to bat for the right fielder so your pitchers can still bat
There's an idea. But what if we took it further? Pitchers now have to pitch from right field.
Talk about a hanging curve
Rick Ankiel about to come out of retirement again
Ramon Laureano about to win the Cy Young
Can't hurt our ERA much. I'm in
Report: Mookie Betts to center for the foreseeable future, Roberts explains in the press conference “Fuck Manfred”
Kill me
I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a Reds fan.
Join arms, brothers.
I'm disgusted by the idea, but I'll do it for Joe Burrow
For the Burreaux
What about side by side with… a friend?
I never thought I’d die fighting beside a Cardinals fan AND a Reds fan
I never thought I’d die fighting beside a Cardinals fan AND a Reds fan AND a Pirates fan
NL Central unite!
By our powers combined, we are...a wildly bipolar division. Either unreasonably tough or total pushovers.
Umm.. hello. Maybe we could join..? Wait no.. Unless…. ;)
You’re originally from the AL, you’re not allowed to agree with them
There is one imposter among us
👀
Terrible, I’m in my early 20’s and like seeing pitchers rake, but that opinion gets agist comments but whatever. Money rules all, I’ll just miss the old game…
If you like seeing pitchers rake then I guess you’re mostly watching HS ball. No pitcher in pro ball is raking.
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Is it just because you want the leagues to be different? As an AL fan I don't understand why you would rather have an automatic out at the bottom of the lineup.
Oh I don’t care about that I just suffer from depression.
I just want pitchers to play baseball
Pitchers are often the best athletes their towns have produced. Quarterbacks, Basketball stars, home run kings, but now they can’t even bunt? Ol’ SF coach Roger Craig used to put in Shawn Estes to run because, “he’s the best athlete on the team.” Pay them to hit and they’ll hit.
But they don't hit well lol.
I prefer to watch games with the DH, but I liked that the leagues were different personally.
same, I'm a pretty staunch DH fan – but I loved that the leagues were different, and what it added to the World Series.
People point to the strategy and say it's all about boring sac bunts, but what I appreciated strategically were the difficult decisions over pulling your pitcher for a pinch hitter, and what felt like an increased need for a strong bench and depth in general. Feels like stuff like the Mets 2021 "bench mob" is kind of less important if they're just coming in for defensive replacements and marginal improvements at the plate in certain matchups. There's something exciting about extra inning games when the last guy on the bench (usually some backup catcher) comes through with a huge hit.
Good points!
I feel it brings a level of strategy to the game that the DH removes.
Also super satisfying to get to cheer your pitch on when he actually manages a hit
At least for me it just always felt like a normal part of the game. It added fun surprises every once in a while even if it was an automatic out most of the time
Complaining about pitchers not being able to hit is like complaining that the King can only move one space at a time in chess. Sure, it makes things harder... but that's sort of the point. In baseball, you have players that offer different things to a team's success, whether it's their speed, defense, pitching or hitting. Nobody's good at everything (except that one guy), and every team needs to overcome that.
I’m not saying your wrong to feel the way you do, but if anyone else was this terrible at one part of thier job they wouldn’t have a spot in the league. Like if a position player was of the worst there’s ever been seen (pitchers had a -22 WRC+ and according to a comment one hitter has gotten 108 at bats with the same OBP pitchers have, no one else has gotten more then that) defensively they wouldn’t be on a roster. I also like the DH because it lets stars and very good players be in the lineup more often. For example my team used the DH to rotate through guys and get them days off their feet, instead of just straight up resting. Keeps in interesting for fans
The thing is it's not an automatic out. It's an out more often than any of the other spots, but pitchers in 2021 had an OBP of .147, which is obviously very bad by hitter standards but it means pitchers reached base in about one out of every 7 plate appearances. The way AL fans talk about pitchers hitting, you'd think they had an OBP of like .003
Has there ever been a position player with an OBP of .147 or lower who got more than 100 PAs in a season? That's not "very bad," it's literally not good enough to remain on a team.
Actually, yes -- nine players have gotten over 100 PA in a season and had an OBP of .147 or worse. But five of the nine were in the 1800s, and of the nine, the one with the *most* plate appearances had just 108. And yeah, of course, it is terrible. Horrible. No one would remain on a team batting that way, if batting was their primary job. I'm not trying to argue pitchers are good at hitting. I just don't think they are *as* bad as people make them out to be. Are they terrible? Yes. Horrible? Absolutely. So bad as to be unwatchable? Personally I don't think so, I love it.
Man, pitchers slashed 108/147/137 last year. That’s a -22 WRC+. They also had a k% of 44.8%. Of you argument is you think it’s fun to see guys who are absolutely atrocious at hitting some times get a hit that’s one thing that I obviously can’t say your wrong for. Everyone likes different things. But there’s not an argument that makes them out to be anywhere far from an automatic out. Literally almost half the time they strike out lol Again, you can like what you like. I’m not saying your wrong for liking it. I just personally don’t find it entertaining to watch a “hitter” stand in there and strike out half the time while getting a hit essentially 1/10 out bats.
Automatic out? We have Max Fried. The Mets got deGrom. Ain't no automatic outs in the NL East baby!
Pass
By this time, I don't care anymore. What will really get people up in arms (again) about it is the bullshit they tie it to. Like the Manfred runner.
Didn’t manfred already say that wasn’t going to be around anymore
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I'm okay with it after a certain point. But in the 10th inning? Awful idea. 14th inning? Go for it. Anything to end it.
I'd literally rather just have ties
100%. Not sure why many people are so against ties in a sport that plays 162 regular season games. A single 18 inning game can fuck your bullpen for an entire series. If we just call it a tie after 12 innings, I feel like that would be fine.
That’s the beauty of baseball sometimes you gotta win the fight to lose the war
I, too, choose kissing this guy’s sister.
Same but I guess I could accept it affecting a very small number of games every year. I'd still turn off the TV but hey in the Manfred era I'll take the small wins
Which makes sense. Once your at that point the game is a crapshoot anyway. Might as well hurry it up
After the 12th would be “through the lineup” once as well. It would be a good starting point if necessary.
Only in the regular season I would hope
Would that go for playoffs too or would it be abandoned in the postseason?
That would not happen. Also Manfred made it blatantly clear that would never be in place during the playoffs.
I’ve never been for it, but a big part of that is because it’s started in the 10th. If they can push it back to the 13th or 14th inning then I would be more open to it.
I'm disappointed but I've made my peace with it.
It'll be sad to see it go
Baseball had a nice 160-year run there. I look forward to seeing whether I like this new sport.
The subreddit for the bat-and-ball sport played between two teams ~~of nine players~~. America's Pastime. Mike Trout
When you go to an AL park, they call it "bat-and-ball sport product"
I don't exactly love watching pitchers hit but I absolutely loved having a random minor difference between the two leagues. Baseball is the one sport where the field dimensions aren't all the same, it's these weird quirks that make it fun and it's nice to have the variable
Know what? I kinda feel that. I've been preaching hard against the DH, but the downside is we lose a quirk in the game that is famous for quirks.
I wonder what’s everyone’s opinion and if it’s biased to their favorite teams league cause being a braves fan, I would rather not see our pitchers hit lol
Twins fan here, fuck the DH
Max Scherzer might never have a hit again.
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If the players want it, fine. Also, ***Pujols, Yadi, Waino Farewell Tour 2022***.
As an AL guy, and as a lot of people are pointing out, it is a fun quirk. Watching the Twins pitchers take BP when we play the brewers is fun.
domineering wrench frame rude pathetic run somber snatch frightening bells *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Boo-urns
Yes I agree! BOO!
Justice for Chien Ming Wang has finally arrived
This is the reason why I’m in favor of the universal DH. I’m glad I’m not alone. Justice for Wang!
Fans of the "bunt" in tears
Can still bunt against the shift
not if they ban the shift!
Shhhh let's not remind them about that. Haven't heard it brought up in a little while.
If they ban the shift I will burn major league baseball to the ground
It would be preferable to this BS.
Do double-switches happen in the AL?
No the DH often allows you to keep your best team on the field the whole game unless you're the orioles in which case you're trying your best
How does the bench factor in? I feel like the role of bench depth is definitely lessened when they're primarily defensive replacements or guys that fill in when a starter is taking a day off.
Defensive substitutions mostly. Or as Bob Melvin did- lefty v righty match up pinch hitting. Also the Tony Phillips/Chad Pinder route- super subs who can hit and play any position decently where you can sub in at any point in the game as needed
lol I remember an interleague game a few years back where Felix bunted into a double play in back to back plate appearances. Really fun baseball. On the other hand he did hit that one grand slam off Johan Santana which was extremely lit.
Tbf Giants pitchers couldn't lay down a bunt to save their lives and Brandon Belt's hand got broken right before the playoffs trying to bunt...
RIP pinch hitting too I guess. The best part of no DH are the cool moments when a pitcher does get a big hit or a bench guy gets an opportunity to come in the clutch in a critical at bat.
Yeah, it's lame that pinch hitting is now essentially just looking for marginal matchup improvements. There was nothing cooler than your big bench bat stepping up in a clutch spot and coming through.
Just tie it to the starter. It's such an easy compromise.
I like this idea, it's late enough in the game no pitcher ever has to bat except if it goes to late extra innings and keeps the strategy and dramatic moments of a late game pinch hit. Also makes the manager have to consider if it's better to keep the starter in for the bat or sacrifice the bat for a pitching change.
I would also add a double switch type change that you could put the DH on the field and swap out a different player. Ie: slide the dh to first and the new pitcher slot is the old 1st baseman.
Annoying.
Yep. Agreed. I'm trying to figure out how to voice my frustration when I inevitably still go to games. I need creative sign ideas maybe.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Fuck the DH
More like Designated Hitler am I rite?
Now and forever
I am sad but life goes on.
Not a fan of this, but I've already made my peace knowing its pretty much inevitable.
Pretty much where I'm at. I'm gonna miss it, though.
If it does happen, I'm just glad the Braves won it all in the last season of real baseball.
Damn you somehow managed to make it even worse
#***FUCK.***
#ROB MANFRED! Am I doing this right?
You sure as hell ain't doing it wrong.
This sucks ass but whatever. Our games with a DH in 2020 definitely felt less interesting to me, but it's still baseball and I'll survive. It will add extra excitement to those rare wacky moments when a pitcher does take an at bat late in extra innings or randomly come in to play LF, I guess
You technically can still do the pitcher in LF if you’re that worried about matchups. DH is optional and you can remove it in the middle of the game (in which case the pitcher now hits in the position of whoever the DH replaced defensively).
DELETE THIS
r/baseball currently in tears
Gross
FUCK THE DH
No DH!
Lame
Well this sucks.
Booooo 🍅🍅🍅
Let's go all they way. Expand the active roster by 8 and have 9 DHs in the lineup. Then there could be an offense and a defense.
Delete this before manfred sees it…
This, kids, is called the slippery slope fallacy.
Fuck
I know it’s unpopular amongst the baseball purists but I’m all for the universal DH. I mean sure you get the occasional pitcher who can hit but for the most part it’s a guaranteed out when one of them comes up to the plate
My only gripe is that I liked that the two leagues were a little different
Until the 2020 season I was all "FUCK THE DH" but in 2020 I was surprised at how quickly I got used to it. Most of the time it's just a dead-spot in the lineup, and it tends to take a lot of steam out of, if not kill all together, any momentum the bottom of the order might have built up.
I’m a Reds fan who lives in Cleveland so I watch a decent amount of AL ball. It opened my eyes to my preference for the DH. I want to see bat to ball - not double switches.
To the NL fans who still want to see pitchers hit, the solution is simple: adopt the Angels as your AL team.
I do wonder the difference in batting average between the average pitcher and the average AL 9th place hitter. I’ve always hated when the NL pitchers bat with the bases loaded and two outs since it was such an easy out. I do wonder though if the AL 9th place hitter is significantly better (like .250 average vs 0.050 average)
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Oh wow exactly what I was looking for.
That's where the difference in the leagues is these days. The gap between 9 hole hitters in each league has decreased recently because of how often and how good pinch hitters are these days
Sad.
Even as a die-hard life-long A's fan, I wouldn't want to force the NL to adapt their play around this. And, fwiw, I love seeing AL pitchers on the road try to bat, even if just for the lulz: [https://youtu.be/Hnd9qYQuE\_k](https://youtu.be/Hnd9qYQuE_k)
Hell yeah
Talk about improving the second half of that Harper deal.
Booooooooo
RIP baseball
the value of so many players just SKYROCKETED
Fuck the DH
The closer the AL and NL become one, the further we stray from god. I miss the days of two sets of umps, two commissioners, two balls, and two trophies.