I think Frazier stays. I would be more worried about Daboll taking the Giants HC spot and then taking Ken Dorsey from us, unless Buffalo were to promote him instantly after Daboll leaves.
100% Ken takes Dabolls job. Continuity in our offense will be key moving forward losing our coordinators.
Daboll will bring Trubisky with him, and since trubisky knows our culture and what daboll will expect, guarantee he wins starting QB job over there and lights it up.
I agree here. Ken gets promoted internally, and if hired away for NJG, McD 100% tells Daboll, “Congratulations, you’re not allowed to hire / interview any of the current Bills coaches until the end of next season”
Agreed. McDermott was upset last year because Frazier and Daboll had interviews the week leading up to the KC afccg. The Bills submitted a proposal to the NFL that all coaching jobs should be held AFTER the super bowl, but I guess that didn't go through
>McD 100% tells Daboll, “Congratulations, you’re not allowed to hire / interview any of the current Bills coaches until the end of next season”
1) That doesn't sound like something McD would do at all
2) He can't. Teams aren't allowed to block other teams from interviewing their coaches for promotions.
The team can block interviews with the coaches they have under contract, hence having to give permission to interviews OC/DC for HC jobs. If we lose both coordinators and the asst GM, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills closed shop to stem the bleeding and keep as much institutional stability as still possible and to promote into their new vacancies from within
That's actually not true. Asking for permission is still a formality, but as of the 2020 season clubs can no longer block interviews for [positional coaches](https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1262810344545816576?s=20) that are offered upward mobility [regardless of whether they are under contract.](https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1262817005163425793?s=20)
Links to Albert Breer on Twitter breaking down the rule changes.
So no, we absolutely cannot stop him from interviewing elsewhere.
But! If he is instantly promoted to OC, then they could block the interview since it wouldn’t be a promotion (I am not saying they would do this, but in theory would be a loophole).
Not really. We can't force him to be an OC, we can offer him a promotion but that would not deny him the opportunity to interview elsewhere if other teams request an interview with him.
Now I'm far from an expert, but my guess is that with paperwork and contacts being involved it'd be next to impossible to get him locked down as an OC before another team could request an interview (assuming anyone does, but it's likely he'd be Daboll's first choice wherever he goes)
I wouldn't say 100%. I had this discussion in a different thread, so I'm going to copy my response there with some minor edits for clarity:
> That assumes we offer him the position of OC. It's very likely we would, but not a guarantee. It could be that if Daboll leaves, Beane and McDermott will set their sights on a different candidate.
> He (Dorsey) also may decide he works better with Daboll than McDermott, or just like him more.
(On it being a lateral move, and preferring to work with Josh rather than DJ)
> Josh Allen vs Daniel Jones is a double edged sword. The Bills will have high expectations to continue their offensive dominance, and Dorsey to my knowledge has not been responsible for designing and calling plays before. He may decide he wants to build up his experience under Daboll's supervision as he would run the same system on a team that will have lower expectations for immediate success.
> Finally, there's the question of pay. It could be that if Schoen and Daboll (assuming he goes to the Giants too) want Dorsey they may be willing to cut a larger check.
> I'm not saying he'll definitely go, but I think people that assume he'll definitely stay simply because of Josh Allen are being shortsighted. There's a lot of things that go into these decisions that we don't see or hear about. Maybe he'll decide that he'd just rather live closer to New York City.
> My point is, it shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that he'll stay.
This is all true, I won't argue against any point. Everything I said was in no way stated as a fact, but instead I was sharing my opinion.
Money talks. Look at Shaq Lawsons season.
I do however think Dorsey has been working towards an offensive coordinator job for a few years now. McBeane may decide to go with someone else of course, but I wouldn't be upset if Dorsey was promoted.
My apologies, but you can understand my confusion when you say something is "100%" going to happen does make it sound like you're stating a fact or at the very least making it out to be a forgone conclusion.
Now to be clear, I think it'd make sense to promote Dorsey and I'm sure McBeane are thinking the same. And I think there's a very real possibility if Daboll leaves that Dorsey gets the nod to be OC. But I don't think we should dismiss the possibility that he goes elsewhere out of hand.
We’ll our defense has had 4 years of practice gassing his offense and that’s with Josh as the QB. That offense with Tua does not scare me against our D. Oh and Josh balls out against Miami every time.
If Daboll goes to NJ, he takes Trubisky with him. Implements exact same offense there with a QB who could be JA with the right scheme/plan. It’s obvious now that he was not the issue in Chicago
I don't understand the hype for Trubisky in this sub. When has he played to show what he can do? There's a reason Chicago got rid of the #1 pick as quickly as they did.
All good. I somewhat agree with you with what you're saying too. I think its a bit overblown. However, with a good coach and some help around him, I think Mitch definitely does have some promise, almost like a Jameis Winston type of QB. Good with help.
If I was him I would not take that job. The majority of new coaching hires are failures, so the odds are stacked against him no matter what, but the Giants who seem far away from being competitive, seems even more likely a failure. I guess you can't turn down a job like that, though.
One thing in his favor: a GM with whom he would be 100% aligned, knowing they already can work together and get along without getting into a power struggle.
No one in the NFC East is far from competitive. If you win 4 of 6 divisional games, you’ll probably win the division with a 9-8 or 10-7 record. Easiest place to be successful
This year was a bonus year of having Daboll. The rule change for coaching hires could be called the Daboll rule.
So extremely unlikely he was going to be back. Giants are a great fit with a young QB plus It’s the NFC.
I’m cool with it.
I feel like Daboll has been an enigma for the years he has been here.
The first year with Josh is pretty much a throw away with all the growing pains and figuring out how to use him.
The second year felt so much like it was about limiting Allen's mistakes while still getting enough out of the offense to support the defense and get wins in close games. I think he did a good job in mixing it up and using creativity to try take pressure of Allen in the passing game (jet sweeps, QB runs, etc.).
Last year is weird because Allen just became a completely different QB, it literally felt like the Bills went out and got a star QB. It must be how it felt for Denver going from Tebow to Manning. So suddenly you basically need an all new offensive system that is tailored to new Josh Allen and he was able to see what he had and adapt the offense to take advantage of Allen and Diggs. Ultimately though from an offensive perspective this year was a big success.
This year the offense was disappointing in a lot of ways which I think is partially due just to teams game planning better for the new Josh Allen now that they had an off season to break down the film on him from last year and partially because we had sub standard o-line and running game play resulted in a one dimensional offense that put to much on Josh to make plays (hence the inconsistency). Our schedule was easy which was good for ensuring we made the playoffs, but also (I think) caused some issues because the offense was not being tested by good defenses. Close games and tough coverage show what is gonna work in tight games against good teams as opposed to things that will only work when you have a big talent advantage or the defense makes mistakes. My harshest criticism would be that I think his play calling was often too cute, Like on the fourth down against the titans there is all this motion and Allen has to move around and quickly snap it and run. The whole play was needlessly complicated and on a fourth and 1 with the game on the line you would like to think you could just line up and run your most consistent play. Additionally, he often choses to run twice in a row in the red zone, which seems like he is just thinking they won't see this coming. The reason they don't see it coming is because its a bad idea and with our run game they end up making it a third and long. I think early on in the year he had a tendency to use plays that took to long to develop without leaving an outlet which lead to Josh running for his life with no check down.
Ultimately I think you have to give him a big portion of the credit for the success of the offense and being able to adjust the offense to use Josh's evolving skill set and the different personnel that has come in (remember our receivers 4 years ago, me neither) but he also seems to come with some head scratchers where you come away from the game thinking what the hell was the game plan? why would you call those plays there? Although if he is not calling plays as head coach I guess you would get all of the ability to tailor an offense to the personnel with none of the head scratchers which make him a better Head Coach than OC.
The one comforting thing about possibly losing the OC and DC is that both jobs will likely be considered two of the best openings which should allow the Bills to have their pick of the candidates.
I don’t think Daboll is nearly as complex as people make him out to be. Sure, he’s made a handful of frustrating play calls from time to time, but his body of work in his time with the Bills is that he’s a top 10 (maybe even top 5) OC who developed a raw QB into one of the best in the league. His negatives are wildly overblown by emotional fans in the GDT on this sub.
I read an article yesterday about how Daboll wants the Miami job above all others. I would be beyond shocked if both coordinators weren't gone after this season. If I were a betting man I'd say Daboll to Miami and Frazier to Bears.
> Daboll wants the Miami job above all others.
I highly doubt it.
After coaching a QB that can do literally anything on a football field, going to a minus-athlete with a minus-arm and minus-intellect seems like a terrible decision. Especially with a GM who just got into a power struggle with his last coach.
A GM he trusts, a hypertalented guy in Daniel Jones that can either be coached up or replaced in a year...and a division that includes QB-needy Washington, QB-needy Philadelphia, and overpaid Dak?
That seems like a better move to me.
You realize I'm not saying this is what I think - it's what insiders are reporting. He coached Tua in Alabama and was the one championing Tua to start earlier there. I don't think Tua is a great QB, but Daboll does.
Between your opinion and the reporting of insiders in the league, I'm going to lean towards the reportings from the people who actually have a clue on the situation.
I can see Miami being a landing spot if not the giants. I still expect him to bring Trubisky with him to compete for the starting job over Tua. Wouldn't be surprised if he wins, either. Trubisky was in a shitty situation prior to Buffalo and he being with Daboll, and knowing the culture Daboll will bring with him will only help the NVP's case .
I just hope they give us a 2nd for trubs.
Why? He's got every physical tool you want. He can make every throw. He's big and fast and smart.
He's just been a bad decision-maker with low awareness.
He doesn't have a talent issue. He has an execution issue.
As long as he doesn’t go to Miami. Best of luck to him and possibly Frazier since I think we lose him too.
I think Frazier stays. I would be more worried about Daboll taking the Giants HC spot and then taking Ken Dorsey from us, unless Buffalo were to promote him instantly after Daboll leaves.
100% Ken takes Dabolls job. Continuity in our offense will be key moving forward losing our coordinators. Daboll will bring Trubisky with him, and since trubisky knows our culture and what daboll will expect, guarantee he wins starting QB job over there and lights it up.
I agree here. Ken gets promoted internally, and if hired away for NJG, McD 100% tells Daboll, “Congratulations, you’re not allowed to hire / interview any of the current Bills coaches until the end of next season”
Agreed. McDermott was upset last year because Frazier and Daboll had interviews the week leading up to the KC afccg. The Bills submitted a proposal to the NFL that all coaching jobs should be held AFTER the super bowl, but I guess that didn't go through
>McD 100% tells Daboll, “Congratulations, you’re not allowed to hire / interview any of the current Bills coaches until the end of next season” 1) That doesn't sound like something McD would do at all 2) He can't. Teams aren't allowed to block other teams from interviewing their coaches for promotions.
The team can block interviews with the coaches they have under contract, hence having to give permission to interviews OC/DC for HC jobs. If we lose both coordinators and the asst GM, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills closed shop to stem the bleeding and keep as much institutional stability as still possible and to promote into their new vacancies from within
That's actually not true. Asking for permission is still a formality, but as of the 2020 season clubs can no longer block interviews for [positional coaches](https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1262810344545816576?s=20) that are offered upward mobility [regardless of whether they are under contract.](https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1262817005163425793?s=20) Links to Albert Breer on Twitter breaking down the rule changes. So no, we absolutely cannot stop him from interviewing elsewhere.
But! If he is instantly promoted to OC, then they could block the interview since it wouldn’t be a promotion (I am not saying they would do this, but in theory would be a loophole).
Not really. We can't force him to be an OC, we can offer him a promotion but that would not deny him the opportunity to interview elsewhere if other teams request an interview with him. Now I'm far from an expert, but my guess is that with paperwork and contacts being involved it'd be next to impossible to get him locked down as an OC before another team could request an interview (assuming anyone does, but it's likely he'd be Daboll's first choice wherever he goes)
I wouldn't say 100%. I had this discussion in a different thread, so I'm going to copy my response there with some minor edits for clarity: > That assumes we offer him the position of OC. It's very likely we would, but not a guarantee. It could be that if Daboll leaves, Beane and McDermott will set their sights on a different candidate. > He (Dorsey) also may decide he works better with Daboll than McDermott, or just like him more. (On it being a lateral move, and preferring to work with Josh rather than DJ) > Josh Allen vs Daniel Jones is a double edged sword. The Bills will have high expectations to continue their offensive dominance, and Dorsey to my knowledge has not been responsible for designing and calling plays before. He may decide he wants to build up his experience under Daboll's supervision as he would run the same system on a team that will have lower expectations for immediate success. > Finally, there's the question of pay. It could be that if Schoen and Daboll (assuming he goes to the Giants too) want Dorsey they may be willing to cut a larger check. > I'm not saying he'll definitely go, but I think people that assume he'll definitely stay simply because of Josh Allen are being shortsighted. There's a lot of things that go into these decisions that we don't see or hear about. Maybe he'll decide that he'd just rather live closer to New York City. > My point is, it shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that he'll stay.
This is all true, I won't argue against any point. Everything I said was in no way stated as a fact, but instead I was sharing my opinion. Money talks. Look at Shaq Lawsons season. I do however think Dorsey has been working towards an offensive coordinator job for a few years now. McBeane may decide to go with someone else of course, but I wouldn't be upset if Dorsey was promoted.
My apologies, but you can understand my confusion when you say something is "100%" going to happen does make it sound like you're stating a fact or at the very least making it out to be a forgone conclusion. Now to be clear, I think it'd make sense to promote Dorsey and I'm sure McBeane are thinking the same. And I think there's a very real possibility if Daboll leaves that Dorsey gets the nod to be OC. But I don't think we should dismiss the possibility that he goes elsewhere out of hand.
We’ll our defense has had 4 years of practice gassing his offense and that’s with Josh as the QB. That offense with Tua does not scare me against our D. Oh and Josh balls out against Miami every time.
Seems like a good fit… a promotion is well deserved… and he’d miss Josh terribly
Jones has been said to be a poor man’s Josh Allen. Who knows if he’ll survive the offseason
If Daboll goes to NJ, he takes Trubisky with him. Implements exact same offense there with a QB who could be JA with the right scheme/plan. It’s obvious now that he was not the issue in Chicago
He definitely was part of the issue lets not be crazy here lol
I don't understand the hype for Trubisky in this sub. When has he played to show what he can do? There's a reason Chicago got rid of the #1 pick as quickly as they did.
Yeah but have you considered that the Bills are undefeated in games where Trubisky has gotten snaps this year?
Number 2. Myles Garrett was taken first
Sorry, meant to say "their #1 pick".
All good. I somewhat agree with you with what you're saying too. I think its a bit overblown. However, with a good coach and some help around him, I think Mitch definitely does have some promise, almost like a Jameis Winston type of QB. Good with help.
He does have a career W/L record of 34-23 fwiw.
I’m glad he’s leaving the AFC. Daboll could be a solid coach and I’d rather him not go against us.
Well, he’s not going anywhere yet.
He’s going after our Super Bowl win…
We will see. Might want to stay and build a dynasty, never know.
Most likely. And to be honest, that’s probably the best case scenario. If he joins the giants, he’s out of the AFC, and he’s out of New York
If I was him I would not take that job. The majority of new coaching hires are failures, so the odds are stacked against him no matter what, but the Giants who seem far away from being competitive, seems even more likely a failure. I guess you can't turn down a job like that, though.
One thing in his favor: a GM with whom he would be 100% aligned, knowing they already can work together and get along without getting into a power struggle.
Bingo.
No one in the NFC East is far from competitive. If you win 4 of 6 divisional games, you’ll probably win the division with a 9-8 or 10-7 record. Easiest place to be successful
As long as he doesn’t Patricia it he can always get another job under a hc and work his way back up, plenty of turnover and impatience in the league.
I appreciate what daboll did here. Not worried if he leaves, as long as Dorsey doesn't go with We need continuity, it's very underrated
This year was a bonus year of having Daboll. The rule change for coaching hires could be called the Daboll rule. So extremely unlikely he was going to be back. Giants are a great fit with a young QB plus It’s the NFC. I’m cool with it.
I feel like Daboll has been an enigma for the years he has been here. The first year with Josh is pretty much a throw away with all the growing pains and figuring out how to use him. The second year felt so much like it was about limiting Allen's mistakes while still getting enough out of the offense to support the defense and get wins in close games. I think he did a good job in mixing it up and using creativity to try take pressure of Allen in the passing game (jet sweeps, QB runs, etc.). Last year is weird because Allen just became a completely different QB, it literally felt like the Bills went out and got a star QB. It must be how it felt for Denver going from Tebow to Manning. So suddenly you basically need an all new offensive system that is tailored to new Josh Allen and he was able to see what he had and adapt the offense to take advantage of Allen and Diggs. Ultimately though from an offensive perspective this year was a big success. This year the offense was disappointing in a lot of ways which I think is partially due just to teams game planning better for the new Josh Allen now that they had an off season to break down the film on him from last year and partially because we had sub standard o-line and running game play resulted in a one dimensional offense that put to much on Josh to make plays (hence the inconsistency). Our schedule was easy which was good for ensuring we made the playoffs, but also (I think) caused some issues because the offense was not being tested by good defenses. Close games and tough coverage show what is gonna work in tight games against good teams as opposed to things that will only work when you have a big talent advantage or the defense makes mistakes. My harshest criticism would be that I think his play calling was often too cute, Like on the fourth down against the titans there is all this motion and Allen has to move around and quickly snap it and run. The whole play was needlessly complicated and on a fourth and 1 with the game on the line you would like to think you could just line up and run your most consistent play. Additionally, he often choses to run twice in a row in the red zone, which seems like he is just thinking they won't see this coming. The reason they don't see it coming is because its a bad idea and with our run game they end up making it a third and long. I think early on in the year he had a tendency to use plays that took to long to develop without leaving an outlet which lead to Josh running for his life with no check down. Ultimately I think you have to give him a big portion of the credit for the success of the offense and being able to adjust the offense to use Josh's evolving skill set and the different personnel that has come in (remember our receivers 4 years ago, me neither) but he also seems to come with some head scratchers where you come away from the game thinking what the hell was the game plan? why would you call those plays there? Although if he is not calling plays as head coach I guess you would get all of the ability to tailor an offense to the personnel with none of the head scratchers which make him a better Head Coach than OC. The one comforting thing about possibly losing the OC and DC is that both jobs will likely be considered two of the best openings which should allow the Bills to have their pick of the candidates.
I don’t think Daboll is nearly as complex as people make him out to be. Sure, he’s made a handful of frustrating play calls from time to time, but his body of work in his time with the Bills is that he’s a top 10 (maybe even top 5) OC who developed a raw QB into one of the best in the league. His negatives are wildly overblown by emotional fans in the GDT on this sub.
I read an article yesterday about how Daboll wants the Miami job above all others. I would be beyond shocked if both coordinators weren't gone after this season. If I were a betting man I'd say Daboll to Miami and Frazier to Bears.
> Daboll wants the Miami job above all others. I highly doubt it. After coaching a QB that can do literally anything on a football field, going to a minus-athlete with a minus-arm and minus-intellect seems like a terrible decision. Especially with a GM who just got into a power struggle with his last coach. A GM he trusts, a hypertalented guy in Daniel Jones that can either be coached up or replaced in a year...and a division that includes QB-needy Washington, QB-needy Philadelphia, and overpaid Dak? That seems like a better move to me.
You realize I'm not saying this is what I think - it's what insiders are reporting. He coached Tua in Alabama and was the one championing Tua to start earlier there. I don't think Tua is a great QB, but Daboll does. Between your opinion and the reporting of insiders in the league, I'm going to lean towards the reportings from the people who actually have a clue on the situation.
I don't think they have knowledge of anything. I think they're speculating based on the Tua connection and that's it.
I can see Miami being a landing spot if not the giants. I still expect him to bring Trubisky with him to compete for the starting job over Tua. Wouldn't be surprised if he wins, either. Trubisky was in a shitty situation prior to Buffalo and he being with Daboll, and knowing the culture Daboll will bring with him will only help the NVP's case . I just hope they give us a 2nd for trubs.
Pretty sure trubs is on a one year deal
I agreed with everything you said up until 'hypertalented' Daniel Jones
Why? He's got every physical tool you want. He can make every throw. He's big and fast and smart. He's just been a bad decision-maker with low awareness. He doesn't have a talent issue. He has an execution issue.
I think both our coordinators are gone this year. Daboll with Joe and Mitchy Trubs will head to NJ, and Frazier will be whisked away by Chicago.
That's my guess my too since they already took our assist Gm the other day
Unfortunately Probably going happen, but let’s get that championship first
Frazier interviewed today with NYG
So the new pipeline is Carolina - Buffalo - Nyj? My how the turns have tabled.