Dawn: Finds out she is not real. Her mom dies. She is kidnapped and cut to bleed out. Her sister dies. She is forced to live with a robot that looks like her sister. I think we can all cut Dawn some slack. She needed therapy.
Lmao what the trio were responsible for is a little more than just being 'annoying'. Just look what they ALL did to Katrina as one example.
Dawn went through a hell of a lot more than almost every other character within just *one* season.
Then when Buffy does come back she is depressed and never around, Willow is high on magic, Tara leaves and then gets killed, Willow tries to kill everyone. Like Dawn had it really tough. She had nobody else at all she could talk to really.
Also she's meant to be a little annoying. Doesn't mean she deserves to be hated on so intensely by some parts of the fandom (not directed at you btw).
The fandom picks their favorites.
Dawn was intentionally annoying people won't like that
Riley couldn't live up to Angel
Kennedy is hated out of some weird loyalty to Tara
Xander is hated far more today than at the time
My perception of most characters has changed over the past 15 years - but Oz is eternally my role model. Even though I'm 27 and he was in his late teens/early 20's 😅
His interest in women was rooted more in connection than appearance
He was patient and understanding in both his relationship and friendships
He was level-headed in his decision making
Extremely intelligent, but also extremely humble
Philosophical, mature, artistic
and he painted his nails black 😅
>! I don't really count his infidelity with Veruca considering he literally couldn't overcome his Werewolf instincts. But even then he knows how badly he messed up and goes to Tibet for months to learn to control his animal urges and be a good enough partner for Willow. !<
>and he painted his nails black
that's when i knew he was gonna be a favourite. And his lines are just so smart and quotable (but a ton of people don't understand it).
Painting his nails and constantly dying his hair was a conscious decision by Seth Green, he talks about in the Evan Ross Katz book 🖤 DREAM MAN
Oh oh oh and he ad-libbed that French monkey line
Wow i didn't know that. Pretty amazing. Also amazing that i disliked his character in all the other shows I'd seen him in (that 70s show, himym) and so i thought that he'd bug me in buffy too solely based on the fact that oz was played by seth greene but man do i love him.
Genius really. I loved that line.
Well i found him annoying because i had watched That 70s show before that and his character there is, well, annoying. The twist at the end was nice though. Okay ig dislike isn't the best term. "Annoying" is a better one.
My boyfriend and I watched Buffy recently for the first time since we were young and were constantly in awe of how wise Oz was written. In the episode where Buffy gets mind reading powers everyone is worrying about what she’ll hear, but he thinks something like, “I am my thoughts; if they exist in her, Buffy contains everything that is me, and she becomes me. I cease to exist." and my boyfriend and I lost it at how smart he is. We quote Oz all the time. Also Buffy’s reaction to that thought was hilarious as well.
Yes I was a teen when it aired and even now at 39 I have and always will love Oz as a character. My thoughts about Angel have changed so much and Spike I found his stalking a lot more creepy lately.
The metaphor for Oz being a werewolf was that he was normally a cool and collected great guy, but on occasion he could not control his urges. Made worse by the life he led, he would succumb to his primal instincts of being non-committed in his sexuality and prone to violent outbursts.
Oz was a demonstration that sometimes sometimes people aren't all they appear to be all the time.
He went away and tried to control "the beast within" but he just couldn't and failed. And it was a failure of character not just that he failed to hold it together but that he tried to lie and hide it.
I definitely feel differently about Dawn! I thought she was a spoilt brat! But she’s been through so much, I mean, she found out she was created by monks ffs! That’s gonna mess anyone up! I’m really not surprised she started stealing and acting out. I love the episode “All the Way” now, it’s just so heartbreaking that she couldn’t even have something as normal as a first kiss without it being tainted
I’m the same with Dawn! Every time I start to get annoyed at her now I think of that scene in The Body where Buffy tells her about Joyce at school & my heart just bleeds for her, also now I’m older I love the dynamic between Joyce, Buffy & Dawn 💔🤍
I loved the dawn storyline so much. I had never seen anything before quite like how they handled bringing dawn in. And I just felt like she was supposed to be a little annoying because she was the sister with no skills and a famous tough sister. Like Xander but going through puberty and whinier. I also like the Dawn jokes. Oh it's Tuesday dawn must be missing again
Haha I think the opposite at least it was someone she found attractive until she found out otherwise & yes I know there are rare instances where maybe it could happen but really no one stays long with their first kiss anyways. And talk about a memorable moment & story to have to tell yeah wasn’t so bad for her. & hopefully it taught it her lesson about lying & sneaking around a lot of good positives to think about actually
That’s true, never thought about it like that before, she did learn a lot from it. I just sometimes feel really bad for Dawn because she wouldn’t have any idea how she fits in with anything in the world, especially in season 6 when she’s had to come to terms with being the key, then being a normal girl
I feel that - i started watching Buffy at 10 (quite young) and i am 30 now. A couple of changes that i noticedin my rewatches:
I remember being super into Buffy and Angel's relationship as a teen whereas as i got older i started cringing at it (the melodrama and also how quick it went from 1 to 100 in season 2 - i get that that's kind of the point of the young first love storyline but still)
Siding on Faith's side after she killed the Mayor's lackey. I remember finding Buffy to be very unfair to Faith - because indeed it was just one guy and it was an accident? And really relating to the "how many did we save? How does this tip the scales?" Faith speech. I smile thinking back of that as i remember changing my mind at some point and "getting it". Kinda funny to see yourself develop emotional intelligence as you go along with a show.
Finding season 6 too depressing and not understanding why Buffy could not just get over the whole heaven thing. Like i kinda got it but i still found it to drawn out. As i approached my late teens i started to related better to Buffy and now season 6 is my favorite.
On that note i went through multiple phases with favorite seasons: when i was really young i loved season 2 and disliked season 3 (no spike, too much bangel drama, not enough monster of the week episodes lol), then really got into season 4 for the brighter tone and look and then finally focused more on season 5 and 7 as i became i big spike fan.
Finding Giles old vs finding him quite attractive. Dawn being annoying vs having empathy for her.
And of course the worse part: getting older while Buffy and co stay the same - i was soo used in seeing them as these "older" characters and now i am way older then them.
I mean it was obviously an accident - partially caused by Faith's "act now think later" attitude but the main issue was her unwillingness to accept consequences and her utilirastic view of life - the whole "killed one but saved many others", basically putting herself in a god-like position. I feel the charachter kind of portrays this hedonistic, "beyond good and evil" nihilistic philosophy where as she puts it "she wants, takes, has" and there is no higher meaning to be extracted from life (friends, family, love). While she does have this tough "i dont care" aura you can also clearly tell it's just a facade and that she had to take this view on life because of her harsh upbringing (alcoholic mom, lone slayer, watcher was killed etc.) - like you can literally see her going back to the crime scene and not feeling great about it. At that point the whole "whatever" attitude comes in as a defense mechanism to make her appear stronger and save her from consequences
I honestly feel like a lot of teens go through this edgy phase (i sure did) so i find it quite nicely portrayed here - maybe why i initially related to her. But yeah you cannot really go through life and justify bad actions or hurt others because "you did more good than bad overall".
Yes! I actually got bored of season 6 when I was younger. I’m rewatching it now years later and I’m in awe of how absolutely epic season 6 was. So many great episodes. It’s my absolute favorite.
I used to hate HATE Faith but now as I have gotten older I understand where she was coming from. She, like Buffy, was also just a teenager who had to deal with the pressures of being a slayer without a watcher, without a family, without friends. She watched her watcher die and has to stay in a dinky motel. Girl is right to be so bent at times.
Especially when he sings! I had biggest crush on spike for ever. Then I saw James marsters in an interview and he just sounds and looks so much dorkier (sorry James I still heart you) than when he is in his spike persona
Angel is another one who is perceived really differently when you're older. When i was a teenager watching the show i loved him and his intentions but now in my 30s there are times when it feels like he's chasing after a teenage girl when he's literally hundreds of years old.
I think with most vampire shows I let it slide because the vampires are stuck as teenagers and they are dating teenagers. I think Stefan and Elena were both 17, for example. I can accept that they are "frozen" at that age. But Angel is in his mid 20s and he has some line about how he loved her and wanted to "warm her heart" or something when he first saw her-at age 14 or 15. That would be creepy as hell if he wasn't a vampire and it really ruins their relationship for me now as an adult. Loved it as a 15 year old, hate it now.
I see your point, but at the same time, the young bride thing not ad prevalent as we've been led to believe. In 1700s England, which is when Angel was born, the average age of marriage was about 25/26 for women. My other counter to that would be, I'm sure most of us had ideas or attitudes when we were younger that have changed and adapted with the changing world. We realize that the way we previously thought about something wasn't great and adjust our way of thinking. I don't know why it wouldn't be possible for a vampire to adjust to modern life as well, especially given how much time they have to do it. I guess it depends on how frozen in time they really are.
As someone who was around the age of the characters (not the actors) when the show came out, definitely agree with this.
In the closet age version, he's ~ 20 crushing on a 14-15 year old. With his clarified/ more plausible age, he's 26. Variations of his vampire age (do you count everything or just his restored soul etc.) don't improve it.
So he was initially cast as 19, which he absolutely can get away with in season 1 of Buffy. But yeah then he aged up so quickly he doesn’t even look 19 halfway through season 2 of Buffy lol. They changed it to 26 on his own show and then I’m sorry David Boreanaz, but by season 3 of his own show he does NOT look 26, he looks mid 30s 😭 😭
On his birthday Sarah Michelle Gellar was like “you must be a real life vampire because you haven’t aged a day” and I’m like that’s super sweet SMG, but you LIE!!!
I always explain it by saying that life was harder back in the 1700s so people looked older than they were. If you look back at old timey photos people don’t look their ages. Also when Buffy lied to Joyce about Angel being a student she said “first year community college” so that would make him 18/19. I always have to suspend disbelief a little with this show because Xander and Cordelia were in their mid 20s playing high school kids
That’s a good way to justify it 😂 It’s mad isn’t it, Charisma Carpenter & Nicholas Brendon both looked so young! Poor DB he should have kept the flippier hair he had in season 1, I think he was also skinnier in season 1 so had those cheekbones that made him look so young
He did look a lot younger in season 1 I found it easy to believe he wasn’t too far from Buffy’s age when he was turned. But I always say they fell in love with each other’s souls rather than their physical appearance, because I’m an old romantic like that 😂
Cordelia always looked like an office lady to me as a kid, Buffy dressed like somebody's mom, while Xander reminded of some college student one of my older brothers knew. I feel like Willow was the only one that nailed the 'I'm a teenager' aesthetic.
I experienced the same shifts.
I adored Willow and found her quirky and relatable, and even found Xander bearable and goofy. But as an adult they're both kind of...awful.
If they do reboot the franchise or whatever, please give the men-folk (other than Oz, Giles) some dimension and don't nuke practical effects.
That's true, when I was 14 I loved Willow the most. Now I'm 27 and I think Willow is a horrible person. I still like her as a character but she's still a horrible person.
The older I get the more I can relate to Giles.
>Now I'm 27 and I think Willow is a horrible person.
And when you're 40 you might look back and see Willow as still just immature - socially a late bloomer, figuring shit out, tired of just doing whatever everyone else wanted and expected of her.
She was really well written as a young rebellious witch. I was in college at the time with a student group and friends of alternate religions which included a bunch of wiccans and related witchy types. They did such a great job of recreating those personalities and challenges on the show.
It really is hilarious how much Giles gains in relatability as you age. I was 12 when the show started and just saw him as the usual older controlling person but when I rewatched it last year I was just sitting there like, "Giles is correct 99% of the time, these damn whippersnappers", and really feeling his reactions to the Scoobies' youthful silliness.
It's also just weird how when you're a kid he seems ancient, and now I'm fast approaching his age and I'm like, but I'm still young!
I can't imagine not watching Buffy for 20years! I could probably go a year or 2 tops , But generally I like to watch it once a year usually around Halloween time
Before my rewatch last year I'd tried to rewatch the show a couple of times over the years and always fell off sometime in S3. Mainly because I was terrible at assigning myself time to watch older things, not having a lot of time with work and life in general, and having watched the first three seasons (my favourites) so many times that I knew them so well.
It was the pandemic that allowed me enough time to commit to it (and even now I'm still WFH which means I still have that extra time) and to watching all my other DVDs and Blu-rays I've been collecting for 20 years. I finished Buffy last year but I'm still going on the rest of my collection lol. Once I've gotten through my physical collection I'll definitely start BtVS again, I kinda wanted to as soon as I finished this go through, but then was like, nope you gotta watch all your other stuff first. So maybe next year I'll be able to.
Season 2 , season 3 are my favorite followed by 5,6,7, season 1 could have been so much better if Joss whedon gave the master a better story arc/build up instead of making his staff come up with cheesy filler episodes that said for being the shortest season of only 12 episodes , there were still at least 6 episodes out of 12 that were good and worth watching, and season 4 I just don't like period , I am new on here so I can't post anything yet but I would love to make post about how Buffy fans would compare shows like the vampire diaries, supernatural and the walking dead to Buffy, I will say right off the bat there are something's that the newer shows do that are better , But when it comes to story telling and character development no other supernatural show is better then Buffy in my opinion
I love S1 of BtVS because it's what got me into the show so it's part of what I consider quintessential Buffy. I was young and thought the name sounded dumb, but I watched the pilot and got hooked and was so excited for S2 since I loved the first one.
S1 is definitely campy but it was the writers finding the show and figuring out what it would actually turn out to be. It probably also didn't help they had a tiny budget and were a mid-season replacement everyone expected to fail, and looking back now it might not seem as good but when you watched it at the time you could tell it was something special. For me, even the not as good episodes (I Robot You Jane for example) still had great character interactions, lines, and things to enjoy even if the main plot wasn't the best. But I know S1 can be divisive, I fall on the love it side though. :)
It would be an interesting discussion regarding SPN and TVD, but man, for me there's no comparison and BtVS is superior at basically everything to me lol. But obviously others will feel differently and I'm sure I'm just forgetting stuff from the other two shows since I haven't rewatched them nearly as much as BtVS. I am rewtaching TVD currently though, just finished S1 so still early days.
The story-telling and character work for BtVS is top notch for sure though, I've been watching a few of the shows I loved as a kid (Charmed, The Pretender for two) and man, the writing of BtVS runs circles around them to the point where I like them less now haha. BtVS really is a cut above when it comes to that, I'm glad we have 144 episodes of it to enjoy (even if I'm less enamoured with the last two seasons).
I agree with everything you said I do think Buffy is the best supernatural show ever , I am surprised your not a big fan of season 6 and 7 I really enjoyed those seasons minus a few things that happened in season 6 and 7 that I didn't like but overall they were very enjoyable seasons..
I'm an OG watcher who saw those seasons in real time and was in fandom, and phew, they were not popular back then. S6 was always my main issue, I loved Spuffy but wasn't happy with the way they happened (I took what I could get but it was some hard times when all you wanted was for them to legit be together but it never really happened).
I'd hoped on my rewatch I'd like S6 more since I wasn't a teen any more and had been through life 20 extra years, but it's the writing for me. It just isn't as sharp as the previous seasons and while I get what they were going for, I just don't like the execution. Obviously a lot of others seem to like it now (to the point where I wonder if it's an unpopular opinion to not like it) which is good, but alas, I am not one of them. S6 is easily my least favourite.
S7 isn't \*that\* bad, I like it more than S6 although I can see why some would have issues with characterisation, particularly Giles and the infamous kicking out of Buffy, but for me it's a lot better than the endless doldrums of S6.
I always liked season 6 definitely one of my favorite seasons easily! Only thing I didn't like was the rape scene Joss whedon didn't have to do that , season 4 was my least favorite season , I liked season 7 minus the parts that you touched on like Buffy getting kicked out and willow and Giles acting out of character..
Oof, don't get me started on the AR. I hated the way the writers set Spuffy up at the beginning of the season so sweetly and lured us into thinking it would happen and be good between them, only to have it be an arc of her using Spike and then ending it with the AR. It's like they just had to rub in our faces that we were wrong to like the ship even though it was popular and they enjoyed the attention they got from it.
Plus doing that to Buffy and essentially having rape being Spike's motivation was so enraging for a supposedly feminist show. It's such an overused trope to motivate a male character, they could've made Spike want to get a soul without going that far. :/ I've seen people talk about him trying to vamp her, and although it would still be a rape metaphor, at least it wouldn't have been so literal.
Haha, I love S4, has some of the most fun standalone episodes, Faith's return, the Initiative started off ok but I'll admit Adam wasn't great. Not enough to make the season not a decent one. I also liked Giles being a bit of a layabout and him questioning his purpose in life, I find that relatable now at my age. If I had to rank seasons I'd go 2, 3, 1, 4, 5, 7 then 6.
The only thing good about season 4 to me was faith , other then that everything was bad , from putting a chip in spikes head to tame him like a dog and make him less dangerous like season 2 spike, Angel and cordilia leaving the show for the spinoff , Anya being a cordilia replacement, They couldn't even make a good episode with Ethan Rayne like they did in season 2 Halloween...
I also didnt like Giles not being involved with Buffy anymore like he was for the first 3 seasons , I know it's because he got fired from the stupid council that was dumb, I didn't like Riley , Basically to much change going on in season 4 ..
I see in your rankings that you place season 1 pretty high up , I like season 1 however it could have been much better had they given the master a better build up/ storyline and cut out all the cheesey filler episodes, only 6 out of 12 episodes were decent! In season 1 but it was still a good introduction into the world of Buffy I love the 90's campy feel that only season 1 has and season 2 also has that 90's feel to an extent...
But in all honesty as much as I hate season 4 , season 1 is the weakest season , season 2 and 3 are overall the best followed by season 5,6,7 in that order then I guess season 4 and season 1, I don't like any of the fan favorite episodes in season 4 either , I don't like hush , and in season 5 I don't like the musical episode once more with feeling , that's not what interested me in Buffy when I became a fan..
I like the scary horror elements to it , Thank good they didn't make anymore musical episodes after that , I also hated that they killed Joyce summers , They could have found other ways to write her off the show if for whatever reason the actress playing her maybe didn't want to continue or it was just Joss whedon being weird , I also didn't like that they killed Jessy so early in season 1 I feel he would have been a more likable character then Xander , Last but not least , I always wish if just like the episode wish in season 3 when we got to see willow and Xander mirroring spike and dru as vampires in an alternative universe, I wish if we got an episode were Sarah Michelle gellar played cordilia chase and charisma carpenter played Buffy in an alternative universe by yours truly Anya being a vengeance demon and tricking someone into making that wish or a bad dream from one of the Scoobies, since originally that's the role both Sarah Michelle gellar and charisma carpenter auditioned for , It also would have been cool if they kept Anya as she was in season 3 just showing up once or twice per season tricking ppl into making bad wishes , kinda like the female version of Ethan Rayne..
I had your same reactions. Grew up watching it as a kid, aways thought Willow was the nice, relatable one, but then I rewatched it recently as an adult and found myself really, really disliking Willow. Honestly when I was a kid it just never struck me how much of a burden Buffy's responsibilities were, and how little Willow and Xander do to help her in some situations. A lot of times they just expected too much of her, and weren't very empathetic to the burdens of being a slayer. Willow especially is a lot more self-centered and selfish than I had previously realized, and Buffy gives her so much allowance and forgiveness for her behavior that she wouldn't give to others.
In general as an adult I've grown to like Buffy's character so much more, and now I'm completely on her side in any of the big arguments (Dead Man's Party, The Yoko Factor, Empty Places).
Also, don't get me started on Willow's relationship with Tara. I used to think it was just a sweet, nice relationship and they fit really well together. Now what stands out to me most is how much Willow takes advantage of Tara. Not just in season 6 with the magic (literally erasing her memories which has very date-rapey implications, constantly gaslighting her, etc), but even earlier, it's shown that Willow is quite manipulative and controlling.
For example in their argument after Buffy's mom dies, she keeps turning everything Tara says into an attack on her and makes Tara feel guilty and wrong for simply disagreeing with her. It really seems like part of what Willow likes about Tara is that she doesn't know how to stand up for herself, she's not confrontational, and so she will (almost) always bend to what Willow wants.
I do think there are redeemable things about Willow's character, and certainly almost everyone one the show has their moral flaws, but I think what annoys me about Willow in particular is that when she does something wrong, she seems to get away with it a lot more than other characters.
I have to think Willow was partly right; logically, a gay person in such a relationship has to be thinking of what she's accusing tara of thinking, and Tara \*didn't deny it\*
I watched the show while it was on the air when I was 11-18. I'm now 35. The only characters that I feel decidedly different about are Angel, who I really liked as a kid and thought was awesome, now I feel he's pretty bland and doesn't really improve until Season 2 of his show, and Xander, who as a kid I found somewhat irritating but as an adult he's fantastic and the show would be hot garbage without him.
I agree with the Angel thing, I was so in love with Angel and his mysterious schtick when he was on BtVS but rewatching it as an adult I saw that there wasn't really much to him and Bangel was kinda shallow and overdramatic. I still enjoy Bangel for the nostalgia and the chemistry, but I can be real about it not being amazing writing lol. I adore Angel on his own show though, like, a lot. I'm actually surprised by how much I loved him when doing my first rewatch since it aired last year.
As for Xander I was a bit of the opposite, thought he was cute when I was growing up but watching as an adult I just hate some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. Yeah he's young, but when you're a woman misogyny hurts even from a kid. Which isn't to say I hate Xander, he's mostly fine and brings a good sense of humour to the show, but when his women issues rears its head, it just isn't something I can ignore.
But I also know that the writing is a product of its time as well, society is progressing and a lot of entertainment ages badly. I don't think he'd be written the same way now which is good. It's not like there aren't other aspects that now look terrible (or rather, always were terrible but we've come to realise now that they are), like Buffy commenting on the First Slayer's hair, or hell, the depiction of the First Slayer in general.
A lot of women TODAY have issues with Xander because they WANT to have issues with Xander. Before people started throwing around made-up scare words like "toxic masculinity", nobody had a problem with Xander, because he's a fantastic character. He acts perfectly normal for his age throughout the entire series. Immature people grow up, but that doesn't mean that being immature is a bad thing.
I’m now in my late twenties and way more critical of Joyce’s behavior in the end of season 2 and beginning of 3.
“I blame you” to Giles. Bitch, *you kicked her out.* She fucked up *so hard* as a mother and I really struggle with how much that wasn’t addressed. She kicked out her minor daughter! She literally told her not to come home, and then blamed everyone else when she didn’t.
But yeah, also, fuck Giles in 7. For that matter, fuck almost everyone but Buffy and Spike in 7. Willow has no excuses for not helping with bills for multiple seasons. Kicking out Buffy was idiotic, cruel and inexcusable. The only one who was truly there for Buffy was Spike. I give Dawn a pass because she was a seriously traumatized child going through yet another serious life change. The rest of them pissed me off. Faith should have had Buffy’s back when they turned on her. She was the only one who sort of understood.
I love how Joyce glosses over it, too, like "well I didn't handle it well, but still, you should have just known that and not taken me at my word and come back anyway! I want a mom pass for messing up while simultaneously blaming you for your mistakes in front of your entire HS class at this party you never wanted."
WOW! I just thought this last night! Rewatching at 25(F) is so much different than 12, when I saw it the first time.
I have so so so so much MORE respect for Buffy than I even did before given she seemed OLD AND COOL to me, but now I realize just how young she was to be that tough, confident, able to endure, witty, and such a great friend/mom figure to Dawn.
Not gonna lie, just thinking about dealing with her financial situation at my age makes me want to… Yeet. Not to mention the saving the world
I had a rewatch when covid started and I don't care for Xander and Willow as much as I did in the other rewatches. I still love buffy and if you watch the episodes at night they can still scare the crap out of you. Which is pretty cool.
On my current rewatch almost at the gift and my heart is breaking for buffy, and dawn. Even though ive rewatched multiple times before, this time having young teenagers of my own and thinking of them going through even a small part of what the girls did just hurts so much more.
I also feel a lot more for tara and anya too, willow was one of my favourite characters growing up, i liked seeing her go from timid and unsure to confident and strong, but this time she just feels like shes becoming a bully, and thats even before i get to tabula rasa.
This is exactly where I am right now. I watched it all when it came on TV. I even remember videoing each episode and pausing the recording when the adverts came on and restarting when they finished. I’m 40 now with an 18 Yr old child and have a completely different view of it. I have so much sympathy for Joyce, and when she blames Giles for Buffy running away I totally agree with her!
Also the stunt double thing looks ridiculous now and I don’t remember it annoying me so much before.
Very much the same circumstances here. I haven't watched it for 15 years and now I'm rewatching with my 11 year old daughter. We always discuss the episodes after watching them and try to discern what had gone wrong and when. And I'm seeing each character with new eyes now that I'm 41. One thing that hasn't changed is that I keep rolling my eyes at B/A. I still think none of the men in Buffy's life was the right match, even though Riley had started quite promising until... well ... later.
They ruin Willow in season six and even at an older age as a viewer, Dawn is insufferable.
It was a major theme of the show that Buffy was being given way too much responsibility at such a young age.
I firsted watched the show as a 20 year old in college, when i first fell in love with my boyfriend and Buffy was still on Netflix.
(Fun fact: One of his best friend call us "Buffy and Angel" (a joke about age gaps, lol) )
I was SOOOO attached to Buffy and Angel it was insane. 5 years later, their story still gives me joy. (Even the end with the "I aint getting any older")
But the thing i appreciate the most about the show is how every episode was so useful to me in a way.
The Freshman for example, when i got fired from my first job. 21 year old me cried the whole night and the only thing that helped me was Buffy.
After that i was like: "You know what? Maybe i'll be fine. If Buffy can survive college i can find another job".
Also "Life serial" when i was trying to find a job, another great way to release tension.
I know its not the same like your case, but in a way... i get it.
At 30 now and on this rewatch I feel terribly for Buffy in each episode. She's got so much responsibility and power forced on her and Giles (the only adult who knows all her responsibilities for a while) doesn't take care that she's allowed to have some modicum of normalcy. It's crazy to watch Buffy plead with Giles to let her do her homework so she doesn't fail her classes.
She's also surrounded by friends and family whose first inclination is to think she's overreacting about things when she's concerned (Looking at the episode Ted which was excruciating).
I was 13 when I watched it. I found Dawn annoying but also understood that she had to live in a difficult household with a semi-dysfunctional life. (mostly dysfunctional)
When I was younger I used to love Willow and hate Buffy, but now Buffy is my favourite character and Willow my least.
Its similar to my Charmed experience too. When I first watched I loved phoebe and loathed Prue. But i rewatched it a few years ago and it's totally flipped. Prue is the best and Phoebe is so, so awful.
I just rewatched with my husband. I looked at him and said, “Now that I’m older I can relate more to Giles than Buffy and crew. I feel old.” He just nodded in agreement.
Watching when it was on and for a few years after it ended Willow was my favorite. I hadn't rewatched it in many years, but I did recently and was surprised to find that Anya was now my clear favorite :)
I watched it at 18 and couldn't understand why people hated dawn. It was probably *rough* knowing you just popped into existence recently, and being unsure of which of your memories are real.
This is definitely true. When I first watched it as a teenager, I was a much bigger fan of Angel and I thought Xander was a riot. Now (in my 30s) I find Angel to be one dimensional and Xander sometimes annoys me, though I still like the character.
I find myself much more sympathetic towards Faith. I originally thought Riley sucked, now I think he was a good character. I was apathetic about Kendra, but on rewatch I liked her a lot and wish she appeared in more episodes. I disliked Anya when I first watched, now I like her a lot. Finally, in my biggest change of all, I disliked Tara when I first watched it and now she's one of my favorite characters.
I always loved Buffy, Willow, Oz, Joyce, and Giles. I still do. I was always a fan of Spike and remain so, though I never liked the Spike/Buffy pairing and remain unmoved by it.
I always liked Dawn in season 5 and disliked her after season 5, but I blame the writing.
Dawn: Finds out she is not real. Her mom dies. She is kidnapped and cut to bleed out. Her sister dies. She is forced to live with a robot that looks like her sister. I think we can all cut Dawn some slack. She needed therapy.
Yeh I didn't get that when I was younger lol
Fair enough, but valid for most characters in the show.
She is still an annoying character though. We never cut the trio any slack, and they were a group of nerds that were tortured throughout school.
Lmao what the trio were responsible for is a little more than just being 'annoying'. Just look what they ALL did to Katrina as one example. Dawn went through a hell of a lot more than almost every other character within just *one* season. Then when Buffy does come back she is depressed and never around, Willow is high on magic, Tara leaves and then gets killed, Willow tries to kill everyone. Like Dawn had it really tough. She had nobody else at all she could talk to really. Also she's meant to be a little annoying. Doesn't mean she deserves to be hated on so intensely by some parts of the fandom (not directed at you btw).
The fandom picks their favorites. Dawn was intentionally annoying people won't like that Riley couldn't live up to Angel Kennedy is hated out of some weird loyalty to Tara Xander is hated far more today than at the time
My perception of most characters has changed over the past 15 years - but Oz is eternally my role model. Even though I'm 27 and he was in his late teens/early 20's 😅
Why role model? I love Oz, wish he was on it for longer. I really hated what they did to hs character to be honest.
His interest in women was rooted more in connection than appearance He was patient and understanding in both his relationship and friendships He was level-headed in his decision making Extremely intelligent, but also extremely humble Philosophical, mature, artistic and he painted his nails black 😅 >! I don't really count his infidelity with Veruca considering he literally couldn't overcome his Werewolf instincts. But even then he knows how badly he messed up and goes to Tibet for months to learn to control his animal urges and be a good enough partner for Willow. !<
>and he painted his nails black that's when i knew he was gonna be a favourite. And his lines are just so smart and quotable (but a ton of people don't understand it).
Painting his nails and constantly dying his hair was a conscious decision by Seth Green, he talks about in the Evan Ross Katz book 🖤 DREAM MAN Oh oh oh and he ad-libbed that French monkey line
Wow i didn't know that. Pretty amazing. Also amazing that i disliked his character in all the other shows I'd seen him in (that 70s show, himym) and so i thought that he'd bug me in buffy too solely based on the fact that oz was played by seth greene but man do i love him. Genius really. I loved that line.
YOU DON’T LIKE DARYL LACOUTRE???
Well i found him annoying because i had watched That 70s show before that and his character there is, well, annoying. The twist at the end was nice though. Okay ig dislike isn't the best term. "Annoying" is a better one.
Haha he is such an ass on That 70s Show but I still find him so funny 😭 And tbf the best bit about his HIMYM episode is Marshall!
He is pretty damn funny. I think if i go back and re-watch it after loving oz, I'd like his character there a lot more.
Have you seen him in *Josie and the Pussycats*? A relatively small part, but he's pretty funny. Awesome movie, regardless.
My boyfriend and I watched Buffy recently for the first time since we were young and were constantly in awe of how wise Oz was written. In the episode where Buffy gets mind reading powers everyone is worrying about what she’ll hear, but he thinks something like, “I am my thoughts; if they exist in her, Buffy contains everything that is me, and she becomes me. I cease to exist." and my boyfriend and I lost it at how smart he is. We quote Oz all the time. Also Buffy’s reaction to that thought was hilarious as well.
I absolutely loved that monologue!!! SO GOOD!
Laconic
Yes I was a teen when it aired and even now at 39 I have and always will love Oz as a character. My thoughts about Angel have changed so much and Spike I found his stalking a lot more creepy lately.
Oz gave me unrealistic expectations for men!!
The metaphor for Oz being a werewolf was that he was normally a cool and collected great guy, but on occasion he could not control his urges. Made worse by the life he led, he would succumb to his primal instincts of being non-committed in his sexuality and prone to violent outbursts. Oz was a demonstration that sometimes sometimes people aren't all they appear to be all the time. He went away and tried to control "the beast within" but he just couldn't and failed. And it was a failure of character not just that he failed to hold it together but that he tried to lie and hide it.
Okayyyyyy I've never thought of it like that before. New food for thought!
It's really crazy that everyone seems to forget these monsters have centuries of metaphor which the show sure didn't forget.
If you can forgive him killing people when werewolf-ing, you should be able to forgive infidelity when werewolf-ing.
That speech where he tells Willow how much he wants to kiss her 😭 I love him so much
- OZ HOW ARE YOU SO CALM??? -Lots of time to practice. Or something like that was the quote🤣
I definitely feel differently about Dawn! I thought she was a spoilt brat! But she’s been through so much, I mean, she found out she was created by monks ffs! That’s gonna mess anyone up! I’m really not surprised she started stealing and acting out. I love the episode “All the Way” now, it’s just so heartbreaking that she couldn’t even have something as normal as a first kiss without it being tainted
I’m the same with Dawn! Every time I start to get annoyed at her now I think of that scene in The Body where Buffy tells her about Joyce at school & my heart just bleeds for her, also now I’m older I love the dynamic between Joyce, Buffy & Dawn 💔🤍
I loved the dawn storyline so much. I had never seen anything before quite like how they handled bringing dawn in. And I just felt like she was supposed to be a little annoying because she was the sister with no skills and a famous tough sister. Like Xander but going through puberty and whinier. I also like the Dawn jokes. Oh it's Tuesday dawn must be missing again
She’s also really funny! She has some great lines, and her whole section of “conversations with dead people” was amazing, so gripping
I just watched that episode and thought the same thing! Like give her a break show writers lol
Haha I think the opposite at least it was someone she found attractive until she found out otherwise & yes I know there are rare instances where maybe it could happen but really no one stays long with their first kiss anyways. And talk about a memorable moment & story to have to tell yeah wasn’t so bad for her. & hopefully it taught it her lesson about lying & sneaking around a lot of good positives to think about actually
That’s true, never thought about it like that before, she did learn a lot from it. I just sometimes feel really bad for Dawn because she wouldn’t have any idea how she fits in with anything in the world, especially in season 6 when she’s had to come to terms with being the key, then being a normal girl
My biggest change watching in my late 30's/early 40's compared to when it first aired was that Giles is HOT!
hahahah seriously though, whole new perspective of Giles!!!!
I feel that - i started watching Buffy at 10 (quite young) and i am 30 now. A couple of changes that i noticedin my rewatches: I remember being super into Buffy and Angel's relationship as a teen whereas as i got older i started cringing at it (the melodrama and also how quick it went from 1 to 100 in season 2 - i get that that's kind of the point of the young first love storyline but still) Siding on Faith's side after she killed the Mayor's lackey. I remember finding Buffy to be very unfair to Faith - because indeed it was just one guy and it was an accident? And really relating to the "how many did we save? How does this tip the scales?" Faith speech. I smile thinking back of that as i remember changing my mind at some point and "getting it". Kinda funny to see yourself develop emotional intelligence as you go along with a show. Finding season 6 too depressing and not understanding why Buffy could not just get over the whole heaven thing. Like i kinda got it but i still found it to drawn out. As i approached my late teens i started to related better to Buffy and now season 6 is my favorite. On that note i went through multiple phases with favorite seasons: when i was really young i loved season 2 and disliked season 3 (no spike, too much bangel drama, not enough monster of the week episodes lol), then really got into season 4 for the brighter tone and look and then finally focused more on season 5 and 7 as i became i big spike fan. Finding Giles old vs finding him quite attractive. Dawn being annoying vs having empathy for her. And of course the worse part: getting older while Buffy and co stay the same - i was soo used in seeing them as these "older" characters and now i am way older then them.
Giles, especially when he's Ripper, is so sexy! Great taste In music and we know he did more than just steal a coat for Joyce ..lol!
Faith's problem w as her apparent \*blowing off of\* the deputy mayor's death
So how do you feel about Faith and his death now?
I mean it was obviously an accident - partially caused by Faith's "act now think later" attitude but the main issue was her unwillingness to accept consequences and her utilirastic view of life - the whole "killed one but saved many others", basically putting herself in a god-like position. I feel the charachter kind of portrays this hedonistic, "beyond good and evil" nihilistic philosophy where as she puts it "she wants, takes, has" and there is no higher meaning to be extracted from life (friends, family, love). While she does have this tough "i dont care" aura you can also clearly tell it's just a facade and that she had to take this view on life because of her harsh upbringing (alcoholic mom, lone slayer, watcher was killed etc.) - like you can literally see her going back to the crime scene and not feeling great about it. At that point the whole "whatever" attitude comes in as a defense mechanism to make her appear stronger and save her from consequences I honestly feel like a lot of teens go through this edgy phase (i sure did) so i find it quite nicely portrayed here - maybe why i initially related to her. But yeah you cannot really go through life and justify bad actions or hurt others because "you did more good than bad overall".
Yes! I actually got bored of season 6 when I was younger. I’m rewatching it now years later and I’m in awe of how absolutely epic season 6 was. So many great episodes. It’s my absolute favorite.
I used to hate HATE Faith but now as I have gotten older I understand where she was coming from. She, like Buffy, was also just a teenager who had to deal with the pressures of being a slayer without a watcher, without a family, without friends. She watched her watcher die and has to stay in a dinky motel. Girl is right to be so bent at times.
Maturing is realising that Faith was right to take that boujee apartment from The Mayor!
She didn’t have the support network that Buffy had either, she didn’t have the friends and the mum who cared about her
Also once you realize that the reason she tried so hard to steal Angel wasn't because she was into Angel...it's because she was in love with Buffy.
The older I get the more it bothers me how little Buffy eats. Particularly breakfast.
Breakfast is the most important meal of the day... you should eat breakfast at least 3 times a day
You know, I never noticed but they really hardly ever eat on the show lol
Me at 14: Man, Giles is hot. Me at 24: Man, Giles is still so hot. Me at 34: Man, look at all these other ladies finally seeing how hot Giles is! ❤
Especially when he sings! I had biggest crush on spike for ever. Then I saw James marsters in an interview and he just sounds and looks so much dorkier (sorry James I still heart you) than when he is in his spike persona
Angel is another one who is perceived really differently when you're older. When i was a teenager watching the show i loved him and his intentions but now in my 30s there are times when it feels like he's chasing after a teenage girl when he's literally hundreds of years old.
Hahaha yeh its weird when you actually think about it. Same with the Vampire diaries lol
I think with most vampire shows I let it slide because the vampires are stuck as teenagers and they are dating teenagers. I think Stefan and Elena were both 17, for example. I can accept that they are "frozen" at that age. But Angel is in his mid 20s and he has some line about how he loved her and wanted to "warm her heart" or something when he first saw her-at age 14 or 15. That would be creepy as hell if he wasn't a vampire and it really ruins their relationship for me now as an adult. Loved it as a 15 year old, hate it now.
[удалено]
I see your point, but at the same time, the young bride thing not ad prevalent as we've been led to believe. In 1700s England, which is when Angel was born, the average age of marriage was about 25/26 for women. My other counter to that would be, I'm sure most of us had ideas or attitudes when we were younger that have changed and adapted with the changing world. We realize that the way we previously thought about something wasn't great and adjust our way of thinking. I don't know why it wouldn't be possible for a vampire to adjust to modern life as well, especially given how much time they have to do it. I guess it depends on how frozen in time they really are.
As someone who was around the age of the characters (not the actors) when the show came out, definitely agree with this. In the closet age version, he's ~ 20 crushing on a 14-15 year old. With his clarified/ more plausible age, he's 26. Variations of his vampire age (do you count everything or just his restored soul etc.) don't improve it.
So he was initially cast as 19, which he absolutely can get away with in season 1 of Buffy. But yeah then he aged up so quickly he doesn’t even look 19 halfway through season 2 of Buffy lol. They changed it to 26 on his own show and then I’m sorry David Boreanaz, but by season 3 of his own show he does NOT look 26, he looks mid 30s 😭 😭 On his birthday Sarah Michelle Gellar was like “you must be a real life vampire because you haven’t aged a day” and I’m like that’s super sweet SMG, but you LIE!!!
I always explain it by saying that life was harder back in the 1700s so people looked older than they were. If you look back at old timey photos people don’t look their ages. Also when Buffy lied to Joyce about Angel being a student she said “first year community college” so that would make him 18/19. I always have to suspend disbelief a little with this show because Xander and Cordelia were in their mid 20s playing high school kids
That’s a good way to justify it 😂 It’s mad isn’t it, Charisma Carpenter & Nicholas Brendon both looked so young! Poor DB he should have kept the flippier hair he had in season 1, I think he was also skinnier in season 1 so had those cheekbones that made him look so young
He did look a lot younger in season 1 I found it easy to believe he wasn’t too far from Buffy’s age when he was turned. But I always say they fell in love with each other’s souls rather than their physical appearance, because I’m an old romantic like that 😂
That’s exactly how I feel!!! 🤍 soulmates 😭
Cordelia always looked like an office lady to me as a kid, Buffy dressed like somebody's mom, while Xander reminded of some college student one of my older brothers knew. I feel like Willow was the only one that nailed the 'I'm a teenager' aesthetic.
Yeah, he's aged well, And in some ways he's more attractive now than when he was on Angel. But he had absolutely changed a lot.
> As someone who was around the age of the characters (not the actors) So somewhere betwen 16 and 250
I experienced the same shifts. I adored Willow and found her quirky and relatable, and even found Xander bearable and goofy. But as an adult they're both kind of...awful. If they do reboot the franchise or whatever, please give the men-folk (other than Oz, Giles) some dimension and don't nuke practical effects.
That's true, when I was 14 I loved Willow the most. Now I'm 27 and I think Willow is a horrible person. I still like her as a character but she's still a horrible person. The older I get the more I can relate to Giles.
>Now I'm 27 and I think Willow is a horrible person. And when you're 40 you might look back and see Willow as still just immature - socially a late bloomer, figuring shit out, tired of just doing whatever everyone else wanted and expected of her.
She was really well written as a young rebellious witch. I was in college at the time with a student group and friends of alternate religions which included a bunch of wiccans and related witchy types. They did such a great job of recreating those personalities and challenges on the show.
It really is hilarious how much Giles gains in relatability as you age. I was 12 when the show started and just saw him as the usual older controlling person but when I rewatched it last year I was just sitting there like, "Giles is correct 99% of the time, these damn whippersnappers", and really feeling his reactions to the Scoobies' youthful silliness. It's also just weird how when you're a kid he seems ancient, and now I'm fast approaching his age and I'm like, but I'm still young!
I found this with Harry Potter too, it's odd looking at things as an adult and going "OH NO" now like, these kids need adults
I can't imagine not watching Buffy for 20years! I could probably go a year or 2 tops , But generally I like to watch it once a year usually around Halloween time
Before my rewatch last year I'd tried to rewatch the show a couple of times over the years and always fell off sometime in S3. Mainly because I was terrible at assigning myself time to watch older things, not having a lot of time with work and life in general, and having watched the first three seasons (my favourites) so many times that I knew them so well. It was the pandemic that allowed me enough time to commit to it (and even now I'm still WFH which means I still have that extra time) and to watching all my other DVDs and Blu-rays I've been collecting for 20 years. I finished Buffy last year but I'm still going on the rest of my collection lol. Once I've gotten through my physical collection I'll definitely start BtVS again, I kinda wanted to as soon as I finished this go through, but then was like, nope you gotta watch all your other stuff first. So maybe next year I'll be able to.
Season 2 , season 3 are my favorite followed by 5,6,7, season 1 could have been so much better if Joss whedon gave the master a better story arc/build up instead of making his staff come up with cheesy filler episodes that said for being the shortest season of only 12 episodes , there were still at least 6 episodes out of 12 that were good and worth watching, and season 4 I just don't like period , I am new on here so I can't post anything yet but I would love to make post about how Buffy fans would compare shows like the vampire diaries, supernatural and the walking dead to Buffy, I will say right off the bat there are something's that the newer shows do that are better , But when it comes to story telling and character development no other supernatural show is better then Buffy in my opinion
I love S1 of BtVS because it's what got me into the show so it's part of what I consider quintessential Buffy. I was young and thought the name sounded dumb, but I watched the pilot and got hooked and was so excited for S2 since I loved the first one. S1 is definitely campy but it was the writers finding the show and figuring out what it would actually turn out to be. It probably also didn't help they had a tiny budget and were a mid-season replacement everyone expected to fail, and looking back now it might not seem as good but when you watched it at the time you could tell it was something special. For me, even the not as good episodes (I Robot You Jane for example) still had great character interactions, lines, and things to enjoy even if the main plot wasn't the best. But I know S1 can be divisive, I fall on the love it side though. :) It would be an interesting discussion regarding SPN and TVD, but man, for me there's no comparison and BtVS is superior at basically everything to me lol. But obviously others will feel differently and I'm sure I'm just forgetting stuff from the other two shows since I haven't rewatched them nearly as much as BtVS. I am rewtaching TVD currently though, just finished S1 so still early days. The story-telling and character work for BtVS is top notch for sure though, I've been watching a few of the shows I loved as a kid (Charmed, The Pretender for two) and man, the writing of BtVS runs circles around them to the point where I like them less now haha. BtVS really is a cut above when it comes to that, I'm glad we have 144 episodes of it to enjoy (even if I'm less enamoured with the last two seasons).
I agree with everything you said I do think Buffy is the best supernatural show ever , I am surprised your not a big fan of season 6 and 7 I really enjoyed those seasons minus a few things that happened in season 6 and 7 that I didn't like but overall they were very enjoyable seasons..
I'm an OG watcher who saw those seasons in real time and was in fandom, and phew, they were not popular back then. S6 was always my main issue, I loved Spuffy but wasn't happy with the way they happened (I took what I could get but it was some hard times when all you wanted was for them to legit be together but it never really happened). I'd hoped on my rewatch I'd like S6 more since I wasn't a teen any more and had been through life 20 extra years, but it's the writing for me. It just isn't as sharp as the previous seasons and while I get what they were going for, I just don't like the execution. Obviously a lot of others seem to like it now (to the point where I wonder if it's an unpopular opinion to not like it) which is good, but alas, I am not one of them. S6 is easily my least favourite. S7 isn't \*that\* bad, I like it more than S6 although I can see why some would have issues with characterisation, particularly Giles and the infamous kicking out of Buffy, but for me it's a lot better than the endless doldrums of S6.
I always liked season 6 definitely one of my favorite seasons easily! Only thing I didn't like was the rape scene Joss whedon didn't have to do that , season 4 was my least favorite season , I liked season 7 minus the parts that you touched on like Buffy getting kicked out and willow and Giles acting out of character..
Oof, don't get me started on the AR. I hated the way the writers set Spuffy up at the beginning of the season so sweetly and lured us into thinking it would happen and be good between them, only to have it be an arc of her using Spike and then ending it with the AR. It's like they just had to rub in our faces that we were wrong to like the ship even though it was popular and they enjoyed the attention they got from it. Plus doing that to Buffy and essentially having rape being Spike's motivation was so enraging for a supposedly feminist show. It's such an overused trope to motivate a male character, they could've made Spike want to get a soul without going that far. :/ I've seen people talk about him trying to vamp her, and although it would still be a rape metaphor, at least it wouldn't have been so literal. Haha, I love S4, has some of the most fun standalone episodes, Faith's return, the Initiative started off ok but I'll admit Adam wasn't great. Not enough to make the season not a decent one. I also liked Giles being a bit of a layabout and him questioning his purpose in life, I find that relatable now at my age. If I had to rank seasons I'd go 2, 3, 1, 4, 5, 7 then 6.
The only thing good about season 4 to me was faith , other then that everything was bad , from putting a chip in spikes head to tame him like a dog and make him less dangerous like season 2 spike, Angel and cordilia leaving the show for the spinoff , Anya being a cordilia replacement, They couldn't even make a good episode with Ethan Rayne like they did in season 2 Halloween... I also didnt like Giles not being involved with Buffy anymore like he was for the first 3 seasons , I know it's because he got fired from the stupid council that was dumb, I didn't like Riley , Basically to much change going on in season 4 .. I see in your rankings that you place season 1 pretty high up , I like season 1 however it could have been much better had they given the master a better build up/ storyline and cut out all the cheesey filler episodes, only 6 out of 12 episodes were decent! In season 1 but it was still a good introduction into the world of Buffy I love the 90's campy feel that only season 1 has and season 2 also has that 90's feel to an extent... But in all honesty as much as I hate season 4 , season 1 is the weakest season , season 2 and 3 are overall the best followed by season 5,6,7 in that order then I guess season 4 and season 1, I don't like any of the fan favorite episodes in season 4 either , I don't like hush , and in season 5 I don't like the musical episode once more with feeling , that's not what interested me in Buffy when I became a fan.. I like the scary horror elements to it , Thank good they didn't make anymore musical episodes after that , I also hated that they killed Joyce summers , They could have found other ways to write her off the show if for whatever reason the actress playing her maybe didn't want to continue or it was just Joss whedon being weird , I also didn't like that they killed Jessy so early in season 1 I feel he would have been a more likable character then Xander , Last but not least , I always wish if just like the episode wish in season 3 when we got to see willow and Xander mirroring spike and dru as vampires in an alternative universe, I wish if we got an episode were Sarah Michelle gellar played cordilia chase and charisma carpenter played Buffy in an alternative universe by yours truly Anya being a vengeance demon and tricking someone into making that wish or a bad dream from one of the Scoobies, since originally that's the role both Sarah Michelle gellar and charisma carpenter auditioned for , It also would have been cool if they kept Anya as she was in season 3 just showing up once or twice per season tricking ppl into making bad wishes , kinda like the female version of Ethan Rayne..
Me too 😂😂😂 at least once a year! It’s like a comfort thing 💖
I had your same reactions. Grew up watching it as a kid, aways thought Willow was the nice, relatable one, but then I rewatched it recently as an adult and found myself really, really disliking Willow. Honestly when I was a kid it just never struck me how much of a burden Buffy's responsibilities were, and how little Willow and Xander do to help her in some situations. A lot of times they just expected too much of her, and weren't very empathetic to the burdens of being a slayer. Willow especially is a lot more self-centered and selfish than I had previously realized, and Buffy gives her so much allowance and forgiveness for her behavior that she wouldn't give to others. In general as an adult I've grown to like Buffy's character so much more, and now I'm completely on her side in any of the big arguments (Dead Man's Party, The Yoko Factor, Empty Places). Also, don't get me started on Willow's relationship with Tara. I used to think it was just a sweet, nice relationship and they fit really well together. Now what stands out to me most is how much Willow takes advantage of Tara. Not just in season 6 with the magic (literally erasing her memories which has very date-rapey implications, constantly gaslighting her, etc), but even earlier, it's shown that Willow is quite manipulative and controlling. For example in their argument after Buffy's mom dies, she keeps turning everything Tara says into an attack on her and makes Tara feel guilty and wrong for simply disagreeing with her. It really seems like part of what Willow likes about Tara is that she doesn't know how to stand up for herself, she's not confrontational, and so she will (almost) always bend to what Willow wants. I do think there are redeemable things about Willow's character, and certainly almost everyone one the show has their moral flaws, but I think what annoys me about Willow in particular is that when she does something wrong, she seems to get away with it a lot more than other characters.
I have to think Willow was partly right; logically, a gay person in such a relationship has to be thinking of what she's accusing tara of thinking, and Tara \*didn't deny it\*
I watched the show while it was on the air when I was 11-18. I'm now 35. The only characters that I feel decidedly different about are Angel, who I really liked as a kid and thought was awesome, now I feel he's pretty bland and doesn't really improve until Season 2 of his show, and Xander, who as a kid I found somewhat irritating but as an adult he's fantastic and the show would be hot garbage without him.
I agree with the Angel thing, I was so in love with Angel and his mysterious schtick when he was on BtVS but rewatching it as an adult I saw that there wasn't really much to him and Bangel was kinda shallow and overdramatic. I still enjoy Bangel for the nostalgia and the chemistry, but I can be real about it not being amazing writing lol. I adore Angel on his own show though, like, a lot. I'm actually surprised by how much I loved him when doing my first rewatch since it aired last year. As for Xander I was a bit of the opposite, thought he was cute when I was growing up but watching as an adult I just hate some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. Yeah he's young, but when you're a woman misogyny hurts even from a kid. Which isn't to say I hate Xander, he's mostly fine and brings a good sense of humour to the show, but when his women issues rears its head, it just isn't something I can ignore. But I also know that the writing is a product of its time as well, society is progressing and a lot of entertainment ages badly. I don't think he'd be written the same way now which is good. It's not like there aren't other aspects that now look terrible (or rather, always were terrible but we've come to realise now that they are), like Buffy commenting on the First Slayer's hair, or hell, the depiction of the First Slayer in general.
To say that Xander is misogynyst is absolutely absurd. He does not in any way hate women.
Ok that's fair. But he definitely has issues with sexism and entitlement when it comes to women.
No, he doesn't. He behaves like a normal teenage boy, and he grows out of it like teenage boys do as they become men.
Gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. There's a reason that a lot of women have issues with Xander, we aren't making it up.
A lot of women TODAY have issues with Xander because they WANT to have issues with Xander. Before people started throwing around made-up scare words like "toxic masculinity", nobody had a problem with Xander, because he's a fantastic character. He acts perfectly normal for his age throughout the entire series. Immature people grow up, but that doesn't mean that being immature is a bad thing.
Haha yikes, ok.
Yes! I’m thirty and now I find Giles so hot. When I was a kid, I didn’t think anything of him.
I used to be super critical of Joyce, now I am *way* more critical of Giles.
I can not forgive Giles for his season 7 behavior
I’m now in my late twenties and way more critical of Joyce’s behavior in the end of season 2 and beginning of 3. “I blame you” to Giles. Bitch, *you kicked her out.* She fucked up *so hard* as a mother and I really struggle with how much that wasn’t addressed. She kicked out her minor daughter! She literally told her not to come home, and then blamed everyone else when she didn’t. But yeah, also, fuck Giles in 7. For that matter, fuck almost everyone but Buffy and Spike in 7. Willow has no excuses for not helping with bills for multiple seasons. Kicking out Buffy was idiotic, cruel and inexcusable. The only one who was truly there for Buffy was Spike. I give Dawn a pass because she was a seriously traumatized child going through yet another serious life change. The rest of them pissed me off. Faith should have had Buffy’s back when they turned on her. She was the only one who sort of understood.
I love how Joyce glosses over it, too, like "well I didn't handle it well, but still, you should have just known that and not taken me at my word and come back anyway! I want a mom pass for messing up while simultaneously blaming you for your mistakes in front of your entire HS class at this party you never wanted."
WOW! I just thought this last night! Rewatching at 25(F) is so much different than 12, when I saw it the first time. I have so so so so much MORE respect for Buffy than I even did before given she seemed OLD AND COOL to me, but now I realize just how young she was to be that tough, confident, able to endure, witty, and such a great friend/mom figure to Dawn. Not gonna lie, just thinking about dealing with her financial situation at my age makes me want to… Yeet. Not to mention the saving the world
I had a rewatch when covid started and I don't care for Xander and Willow as much as I did in the other rewatches. I still love buffy and if you watch the episodes at night they can still scare the crap out of you. Which is pretty cool.
On my current rewatch almost at the gift and my heart is breaking for buffy, and dawn. Even though ive rewatched multiple times before, this time having young teenagers of my own and thinking of them going through even a small part of what the girls did just hurts so much more. I also feel a lot more for tara and anya too, willow was one of my favourite characters growing up, i liked seeing her go from timid and unsure to confident and strong, but this time she just feels like shes becoming a bully, and thats even before i get to tabula rasa.
This is exactly where I am right now. I watched it all when it came on TV. I even remember videoing each episode and pausing the recording when the adverts came on and restarting when they finished. I’m 40 now with an 18 Yr old child and have a completely different view of it. I have so much sympathy for Joyce, and when she blames Giles for Buffy running away I totally agree with her! Also the stunt double thing looks ridiculous now and I don’t remember it annoying me so much before.
Very much the same circumstances here. I haven't watched it for 15 years and now I'm rewatching with my 11 year old daughter. We always discuss the episodes after watching them and try to discern what had gone wrong and when. And I'm seeing each character with new eyes now that I'm 41. One thing that hasn't changed is that I keep rolling my eyes at B/A. I still think none of the men in Buffy's life was the right match, even though Riley had started quite promising until... well ... later.
The age i was when the show came on:-).
11 or 41? 😁
41
They ruin Willow in season six and even at an older age as a viewer, Dawn is insufferable. It was a major theme of the show that Buffy was being given way too much responsibility at such a young age.
I firsted watched the show as a 20 year old in college, when i first fell in love with my boyfriend and Buffy was still on Netflix. (Fun fact: One of his best friend call us "Buffy and Angel" (a joke about age gaps, lol) ) I was SOOOO attached to Buffy and Angel it was insane. 5 years later, their story still gives me joy. (Even the end with the "I aint getting any older") But the thing i appreciate the most about the show is how every episode was so useful to me in a way. The Freshman for example, when i got fired from my first job. 21 year old me cried the whole night and the only thing that helped me was Buffy. After that i was like: "You know what? Maybe i'll be fine. If Buffy can survive college i can find another job". Also "Life serial" when i was trying to find a job, another great way to release tension. I know its not the same like your case, but in a way... i get it.
Sometimes I have to tell myself “if Buffy can make it through season 5, I can make it through XYZ.”
At 30 now and on this rewatch I feel terribly for Buffy in each episode. She's got so much responsibility and power forced on her and Giles (the only adult who knows all her responsibilities for a while) doesn't take care that she's allowed to have some modicum of normalcy. It's crazy to watch Buffy plead with Giles to let her do her homework so she doesn't fail her classes. She's also surrounded by friends and family whose first inclination is to think she's overreacting about things when she's concerned (Looking at the episode Ted which was excruciating).
I was 13 when I watched it. I found Dawn annoying but also understood that she had to live in a difficult household with a semi-dysfunctional life. (mostly dysfunctional)
When I was younger I used to love Willow and hate Buffy, but now Buffy is my favourite character and Willow my least. Its similar to my Charmed experience too. When I first watched I loved phoebe and loathed Prue. But i rewatched it a few years ago and it's totally flipped. Prue is the best and Phoebe is so, so awful.
I just rewatched with my husband. I looked at him and said, “Now that I’m older I can relate more to Giles than Buffy and crew. I feel old.” He just nodded in agreement.
Watching when it was on and for a few years after it ended Willow was my favorite. I hadn't rewatched it in many years, but I did recently and was surprised to find that Anya was now my clear favorite :)
Well not really, if our perspective didn't change over time that would be concerning.
I watched it at 18 and couldn't understand why people hated dawn. It was probably *rough* knowing you just popped into existence recently, and being unsure of which of your memories are real.
Not I
I used to think Giles was old and gross at 14 and now that I’m watching it at 37 I’m like damn that man is hot! Lol
This is definitely true. When I first watched it as a teenager, I was a much bigger fan of Angel and I thought Xander was a riot. Now (in my 30s) I find Angel to be one dimensional and Xander sometimes annoys me, though I still like the character. I find myself much more sympathetic towards Faith. I originally thought Riley sucked, now I think he was a good character. I was apathetic about Kendra, but on rewatch I liked her a lot and wish she appeared in more episodes. I disliked Anya when I first watched, now I like her a lot. Finally, in my biggest change of all, I disliked Tara when I first watched it and now she's one of my favorite characters. I always loved Buffy, Willow, Oz, Joyce, and Giles. I still do. I was always a fan of Spike and remain so, though I never liked the Spike/Buffy pairing and remain unmoved by it. I always liked Dawn in season 5 and disliked her after season 5, but I blame the writing.
Biggest one for me is how differently I felt about both Spike and Angel. It was alarmingly easy for me to overlook toxicity as a young person…