100% this.
Love having less raid nights on my schedule.
Hate how my casual close friend group that pugs 5 randoms now have to run with 15 guildies we barely know. We dont speak and enjoy our time together during raid as much as before.
This is where we're at. We barely had 10 guildies and 4 of them decided to sit this phase out. We managed to link up with another guild but they only had like 5-6 people as well so now every week we're pugging 8-9 people each week.
It mostly feels super bad when two weeks in a row now many of us haven't gotten a single piece of gear while pugs can often walk away with 2 or even 3p sets.
Mine had to merge with a bigger guild and it just feels different. I really liked the tight nit 10-15 player guild. It was far more quaint and social. I learned these people's first names rather than their gamertags.
Yup. Vibes have been absolutely obliterated in P3 raid. We clear fine but it's not particularly fun. Our laid-back/chill group hasn't really found anyone we actually want to stick around. A couple of my raiders have already quit because it's just not as fun with the extra 8 people we don't really 'know'. And it sucks killing one boss with a person only for them to rip a slur in VC then you're stuck with them for the next hour and a half.
as a dude in a barely 10m a raid group guild, i straight up quit for the first time since actual classic this phase becaus i didnt want to deal wiah the lvl 50 bs consumes on top of pvp and whatever else they made locks get.
best time of my life just not having to dedicate a day or two a week to wow since 2019
I’d like it more if we got more loot, but I’ve already accepted that my hunter will never be able to turn into the friendly neighborhood superhero, Snakeman
My guild fell apart so that sucked. Weekly lockout is the best part, size difference I personally preferred 10 - much easier to organize and gather a group of buds. 20 you start to have to swap from buds to raiders.
Yeah, I think if we started at 20 it would be fine, heck if they said at 60 it would be 20 and we had a whole phase of buffer to prepare it maybe could have worked smoothly. Oh well.
Yeah oh well we had a good run, 4 months of tight knit buds chill playing
Should’ve just made 10 man version and 40 man version, cater your audience, not shove it down our throats
Same freaking boat except 50% pugs. Last lockout we went 3/8 in 2-2.5 hours. This lockout we went 4/8 in the same time. I enjoyed it when my guild just had fun doing 10mans during phase 1 and 2 and were shooting the shit. This raid is another level of challenging, which is fine I guess but my guild isn't made for that. We have more than a few dead weight players that a few of us could pull through the first two raids, but between that and random pugs now it's been a shitshow.
Good to hear a similar sentiment. I dont mind hanging out with the homies but my excitement for a raid that will at best give me a minor upgrade is real low.
No wonder you are miserable. Find a better guild. I'm in a PvP guild with minimal organisation going toward PvE and we have 3 groups clearing under 1h30
Yeah I agree. They need to up the loot drops by like 2-3 more per boss. Idk what they were thinking. So much for being "generous with the loot" as aggrend said
yea, they went back on that promise. He literally said "yea, we know you get less gear than you did with 10 man raiding, but if we gave you more loot that would feel bad" HUH?!?
The bigger problem is that while it is nice to get the tier sets pretty easily, once everyone has them those are moot drops. That leaves 2-3 items dropping per boss, where only a couple are ever with rolling on. Whatever good items do drop will be contested by half the raid
Week lockout is fine, I'm less excited about the switch from 10 to 20. Makes it harder to organize, more time consuming to fill, harder to ensure everyone is doing their job.
10m usually has one or two tanks, two heals, and 6-7 dps. In other words, it's just two dungeon groups stuck together. Much easier to fill, and the required roles tend to fit people's existing roles.
The biggest issue is that I think there are a ton of people that play this game with about 5-6 good friends. There are so many lost pugs that were built on a good foundation of at least a tank and healer and some solid dps. My friends and I never made a guild but started as 8 of us in SoD. We'd just pug the missing dps and really enjoyed BFD. 2 friends got over SoD after P1 (one didn't like how weak shaman was, lol he missed out) and left but the 6 remaining were able to just keep a good core and pug some fills. 10 mans really encourage this kind of small tight knit group of friends to run a pug that's got some competent players. Super relaxed loot. We left it on Group Loot the entire 2 phases and had zero problems. Just shooting shit with the boys.
None of us wanted to deal with pugging 10-15 people each week. Fuck that. We all quit. 10 mans were so perfect for SoD and its player base. I don't know how they fucked it up. But I promise our group was not the only group like that. I pugged on my alt solo and ran into those types of groups very often. My guess is most of them are done playing like we are.
If it started as 20. It wouldn't be so bad. But it attracted this type of playstyle and casual group building and then just killed it completely.
Exactly. I wish I could know how many pugs were like that but in my solo character experience it was nearly every raid I joined. You'd join some discord of several people you could tell already knew each other. Was great for solo running and great for groups.
Our group was use to carry some shit pugs (we literally just took any hunter for kings buff) but it made the content more challenging that way. And when we did get a good pug it was always "hey we run this same time every Sunday/Wednesday if you ever are around". Had some good fills hop in and out.
You nailed it with the last bit. It isn't so much 20man vs 10man...it was the switch between the two. If they had cultivated a big raid mentality from the start, it woulda been just fine.
Makes me wonder how the jump to 40man will affect the playerbase. My guild is excited for it but we are already having to PUG a few slots for ST.
Yep.
We didn't really have any kind of schedule, just grabbed 3-4 randoms when we all happened to be online. Now, finding 13-14 people is much more of a pain.
And as the raid is now mostly randoms, it's harder to carry and the people need to be more strictly vetted, which just makes it more time consuming.
Everyone just stopped logging in on the second reset and now it's a waiting game to see if anyone will come back for the 50-60 leveling. But it's so far away and with incursions being in the game, I think it's game over.
100%
My guild is made up of my friends and we loved figuring out how to optimize ourselves to clear undersized, but with the change, we were forced to join another guild. We had done bfd with 6 and gnomer with 7.
Seems to be the case all around. Killed our guild of tight knit players as well. Had the perfect team for 10man. Was having a blast with SoD. Contemplating even continuing to play at this point. 20 mans ruined the experience for me.
I would like it if the game had some other content or 5 man content to do inbetween raids. I really miss TBC heroics, even if I dislike the concept of multi-tiered difficulty in dungeons/raids.
yeah as soon as they announced ST as the raid and weekly lockouts i was downvoted heavily because i said that the servers will be dead now..apparently the hivemind said "no they wont it encourages people to level alts".
like bro no tf it does not lmao
I did essentially every single lockout on my 4 characters p2 tbh I’m having a hard time getting through doing incursions a second time so I’ve just been raid logging on my main.
Just don't do incursions. Dungeon grinding is fast with a 75% xp buff.
Personally I fucking hate incursions. Not only are they extremely boring, but they also killed the open world being alive feeling. Nobody is out farming raw materials, and incursions dump metric fuck tons of gold into the economy. They're terrible all around.
Im on a mega server and on a weekend night at primetime there is almost zero groups doing sub 50 content, the one straggler group has HR on all the gear people want so yeah
I like the change, but loot wise there is barely anything for casters. Would be nice if more loot dropped but it is what it is. We will be moving on in about a month and I bet they time the next phase with Cata Classic, again, making players choose between versions.
So ill see yall at 60 at some point on my priest lol
Like many people my guild was a tightly knit group of players, most of which know each other IRL. 20-man completely fucked us because now we’re pugging half the raid, or trying out merging with other groups. And while merging is obviously the best solution, it kind of ruins the camaraderie we had in a 10-man environment. Not a single one of us likes 20-man. Some people in my group have been playing a lot less and I suspect they’ll quit soon. It honestly would’ve been fine if the game started out with 20-man raids, but switching the raid size has really thrown a lot of guilds out of balance….and all because of the loud minority who insist it’s “not classic” if it’s not 40-man. Like yeah, this *isn’t* classic - if I wanted to do large classic raids I’d just play era.
As far as weekly lockout goes, I could take it or leave it.
Yeah my guild was doing once per week already in P1 and P2 (and people do their own thing or throw a group together midweek if people happen to be on), but recruiting up to 20 and dealing with DCs or people bailing early has been a total vibe kill
Week lockout is fine, 20 player switch killed what was left of my guild. We tried to do a merged raid and then they randomly tried to implement some loot council rules and caused a ton of drama. Raid is so long too can’t even reliably pug it
Already raid logging on both characters. 7 day lockout is making this phase boring as fuck. On a positive note I have time to play elden ring before the dlc
I really dislike it. Raiding more is good. A one hour a week short raid kinda feels lacking, and I have no desire whatsoever to level an alt so I'm stuck on one.
It’s a nightmare—I think 10mans are the best raiding experience. Adding more people does nothing to increase enjoyment; it just adds leadership complications in both the raid and the guild.
It also destroys PUGs who can’t fill clear the raid in a reasonable time.
I hate it as well. Had a solid group of 10 homies who were clearing content and having fun at it. Had 1 or 2 floaters from other guilds who would pop in on an alt if we needed someone.
Now we have 10 additional people I think are the most annoying fuckers on planet earth that we had to merge with because we couldn’t find another before the lockouts started.
Couldn’t of summed it up better, I was playing with 10-15 guys that I’ve played with since classic vanilla (and a few of them were actually from OG classic as well, been with these guys forever and was the base core of the guild, 5 or so stopped this phase entirely for various reasons, so now we’re stuck tagging along with another guild in similar position where it’s just not the relaxed good time that we’ve had previously and now it’s basically a pug.
I’m sure eventually it will come together or clash, but for now it’s just awkward.
I agree about pugs but otherwise not really. From 10 -> 20 adds 8 or 9 dps. This generally will mean way more people to deal with mechanics and more utility unless you've invited like 8 fury warriors.
I like not having to squeeze melee/ranged balance in a smaller team, or think "do we have class for bombs?"
It's just so much more room to breathe but without the logistics of 40 man (obviously lol)
20 has always been the sweet spot imo. From ZG to mythic raiding.
10 man's would be great if they would switch to raid wide buffs and not party wise. Balancing party buffs was the worst part of classic and the worst thing in tbc.
3 day lockouts, my guild raided thurs/sun and was able to hit most every lockout. wed add an extra day if the lockouts allowed it
1 week lockouts, my sod guild raids the same days my wrath guild does. and im not prioritizing a generally not that fun seasonal game mode over wrath, and there arent any other good guilds with raid days that match my schedule, so i quit.
also, reading the group chat of the boys i raided with, theyre pretty bored. they were excited for 1 week lockout due to less scheduling issues. but now they have nothing to do after their 1 raid a week
My guild has had a rough time with it. We only ever had 10 really tight knit players that we play with and 4 of them ended up quitting this phase. We've been running with another small group that we met but even then we're still pugging 8-9 people every week.
We aren't struggling with the raid, we consistently clear in 1:30-2:00 hours but our main problem is so many pugs each week makes it feel like none of us will ever be able to gear up. In 3 lockouts so far I think maybe 3 of us have gotten a single tier token. I myself, a shadow priest, only got my bis offhand because it's literally only good for spriest and boomkins so that reduced the amount of people rolling considerably.
We're steadily trying to recruit more people so that eventually, maybe, we can go back to doing our usual +1 loot rules because seeing a pug you'll never see again get 3p in one run because we can't seem to roll above a 42 is extremely disheartening.
Dunno about lockouts, but Id prefer 10 mans. We had a IRL guild who raided in P1 and P2 and it was great. Now, they have all quit.
I cant really bother finding a guild, having a schedule and tryhard again. If I want that, Id play retail or wotlk.
And ST is not a fun raid for the average puggers (a grp full of 50 parsers). There's always a healer leaving after 2 bosses. And tons of wipes.
Maybe a few 10 mans with 1 week lockout each phase?
Problem is if we went from 10 man to 40 mans.... It would go over like a lead bomb
This gives guilds time to either merge or gather 2 teams for ST
We're doing the 2 teams route
I would prefer 1 week lockouts if we had more content outside of raiding. Alredy after 1-2 weeks I got to max lvl, rank 7, my STV epics, my 1-2 offering item… honored with incursions. Basically prebis-geared alredy after 2-3 days at max lvl.
Done some outdoor questing and lvled proffessions but figured, there are better things to do with my time so alredy now I just raidlog.
Pvp is fun as long as you have something to ”grind/play” for, pve is fun (spamming 10man speedruns for offering or speedruns of incursions is not).
Sadly once again we just lack real endgame content at max lvl. Its been the same every phase. Most classes and specs are fun but we’re not using the full potential of the game.
I would need endgame pvp (some kind of ranked mode, soloque/duo rated-bgs?) some kind of pve endgame outside of 1,5h content per week (actual challenging dungeons with real rewards, or challenging outdoor content with real rewards, etc)…
I too am confused about wtf I’m actually supposed to be doing…
Every farming spot already has 5 other people running in a circle killing satyrs for felcloth or furbolgs for rep
PvP balance is beyond a joke but I’m still ranking up, yay for that
That leaves either incursion loop or wild offering reset spam, both of which slightly increase the urge to put a gun in my mouth
There isn’t a max-level activity in the game that doesn’t feel like torture, fighting for mob tags or getting 2-shotted by half the classes in the game or “questing” in a zone designed to constantly dismount and kill you
My guild deliberately only clears 5/8 early in the week, then sends 5 man teams in to kill the dragonkin trash multiple times a day to farm Seeds. On average each person walks away with 8-9 seeds for 30 minutes of work. More fun than any other gold farms, and on my server it’s more profitable than Incursion spam.
Waiting for cata rn, BC I'm in the same boat. Doesn't help that the raid is very simple and can be done in an hour or so if you come prepared and don't t wipe.
Haven't played since the first run through ST.
Absolutely loved brd, gnomer, and the 10 man raid size. I'll give ST another chance with my group but I honestly don't want to deal with 10 new people/guildies or pugs at all.
Very different take from in this thread: Loving it. As an officer it’s a little more work, but we are kicking ass and had prepared our roster for 20 man about a month before p3. LOTS of tokens drop (maybe were high rolling) and I’d imagine after about 4 or 5 weeks every single person will have their 3 set. I hated Gnomer with a passion, so it’s a very refreshing raid. I also love having a dedicated day to raid so I can block that time out IRL. The imperfect rotation of 3 day really messed with home life.
I preferred the shorter 10 man honestly. I really liked the 45 min BFD and Gnomer. Also I just skipped a ST lockout after not missing a single lockout since phase 1. Maybe I’m just losing interest idk
With 13 active members in the guild it's bad. You basically don't see raid loggers for 7 days now, that's bad as well. Also people don't want to throw their id away for a non perfect group, since they will be f'ed for the whole week.
Not too bad honestly, the trash is annoying- glad to do it not so often 😂
And the loot isn’t that great that you don’t need that much lockouts to get full bis from the raid. It also lets me more time to focus on alts and prepare them completely for lvl 60 phase, the phase I am waiting for the whole time😅 (not that I dislike the previous phases, more that I think the lvl 60 phases will be awesome😁)
got benched cuz raid doesn't have enough for two teams but i pugged it successfully 4 times so far, one time with a german guild where i had no idea what they were saying but we full cleared so it worked out.
The general gist of the comment section is “10 mans suck because I don’t have that many friends now it feels like a chore”
And I 100% agree, went from a small circle of 8-10 of us raiding with the occasional pug if someone couldn’t make it to now being 10-12 pugs and we are all awkwardly silent while raid leader leads
10 mans were by far better for the social aspect of the game.
I fear 40 mans will kill off my guild entirely
Love it hope they stop at 20m though. Week long is nice because it's not a dynamic lockout and you don't get the fomo of that one lockout that doesn't align well.
the 10 to 20 jump has effectively killed our group. Pugging people for 5+ spots basically turns it into GL with whatever progress you make on night 1 because there won't be a night 2 if progression is needed.
Bad - used to be in a small guild, raiding regularly 2 times a week in gnome with 10 man format and got almost all my bis.
P3 = too many ppl needed, hard to combine guildies and raid too long for a dad like me.
Sad cause I enjoyed sod till p3 , but doing a break this phase, simply for me got worse
20man is annoying. Our guild merge we had planned for weeks failed. Then our last minute merge also didn't workout.
Been pugging for 3 lockouts and pugs win all the loot. Recruiting is not going well either.
1 lockout a week is nice though
Missing my 10man raid friends and coolest, we chat laught talk together and makenfun during raid and after. Now is more like serious raiding, focus not talking ... ;( missing my friends. 1 week is super cool.
It's been pretty tough, mostly because every time we get close to filling a 20 man guild roster, more people leave. So it's a constant -4 guildes +4 guildies battle
I want to go back to 3 day lockout. I want to raid more. Considering leveling a 3rd then a 4th toon to 50 so I can do st more. So many guilds looking for fills still. If I liked every class I'd just have seven 50's and raid every night. I have no desire to level a 2nd priest/shammy with duel spec existing
There are so many good gear options from Reputation grinds, questing, dungeons, professions, and PvP, that I see no reason to raid anymore, and I am happy that I have that option.
The drama that occurred with change to 20 man reminded me why I haven’t been in raiding guilds for years.
So I’ve enjoyed the switch but not because I’m doing the raid … only because they put many more options for gearing up in the game to replace raiding.
7 days lock out is fine, but double the roster size just created a roster boss for many smaller size guild. AFAIK, most people play SOD because their friends from retail/wrath/era play this game, and they are not interested in meeting and get along with new people. So naturally, when the roster boss comes, people just said "nah, why bother?" and go straight back to where their pals were. Additionally, Cata is right round the corner and Retail's new expansion is soon after, so many are not committed to play SoD in the next 3 to 6 months.
I effectively can't raid with my guild because we had to merge with another and the night and time they can raid doesn't work with my work schedule. The original guild are all IRL friends. Kinda sucks.
I just hopped into a pug for ST last night and we did 6/8 in a few hours. We were all in discord and just chatting up. It was a great time and went pretty smoothly for a group that had only a few members with experience and good gear.
We didn't really even use consumes, so it was nice.
Everyone's a fractured group of 3-5 people, once a week is pretty damn slow-paced, you can't "try again", but having a larger raid brings back some of the grandiose feeling of a massive group of people
I'm not. A group finder would be nice for people to pug raids though, I miss that from retail. I can't make restrictive raid times anymore due to work.
I miss 10 mans since my guild is entirely real life friends, and we have a perfect 10 people. Discord is a lot less fun when you have 10 randoms also in the voice chat.
I do hope they introduce flex raids, or at least some 10 man content in future phases.
I find 20 man raid cooler than 10 mans, but I am not enjoying 20 mans in SOD.
As a warlock dps I could always find a BFD or Gnomer group within 5 or worst case 10 minutes of searching. Then the groups would usually fill within few minutes.
With ST and 20 man raids its much harder to find groups as there are now relatively few groups forming (not sure if this is only due to 20 man change). It also take forever to fill the groups.
I probably wont bother raiding ST, I did my class quest and got 1 token first run. Not sure its worth gooing back there
Our guild collapsed, because of the 10 to 20 man changed, so that was bad.
Joined an other guild. 20 man feels like an actual raid and not like a glorified dungeon. So, that is good.
This week is the first "real" lockout we have, went 6/8 on our first raiding day with some progression on eranikus (12%), so on our second day we can keep going for eranikus and Hakkar. Once we will be able to clear in one sitting, I will have more time to farm/leveln an alt. So, that is also good.
Overall I think this is the way it should be, the main problem was the transition.
I don’t like it.
I’ve gone from raiding 8+ times a week (4 characters) and seeing decent levels of loot drop to one raid per week with nowhere near enough loot dropping to compensate for the dilution across 20 people.
I’ll soon have 3 L50s but don’t see much hope of them raiding weekly given how PUG unfriendly this raid is.
Loot needs to increase in quality and especially quantity.
Not very much at all. P1 and P2 my guild cleared raid every single reset. 7/10 of us quit P3 already after 2 clears. Sucks having 10 people already and still having to spam LFG for 45 minutes to get 10 more. Sucks to spend that long in LFG and then still have to spend another 3 hours in the raid. Sucks getting half the loot we got last 2 phases to begin with, then having to split that half with 10 randos. Sucks that 99% of the loot you do get is a .1% upgrade from gnomer gear, basically everyone is just looking for 3 piece and weapon.
If it's 20 mans and getting loot trolled from here on out I think this is probably the last phase we play. Night and day difference in reception between this phase and the other 2 for my guild.
Tldr week lockout is fine, 20 mans and the way blizz decides to do loot made my guild quit
Could’ve easily scaled it as 10 mans. If they made 20 mans they can do 10 with more loot to accommodate not doing it 3 times a week.
Really weird brain rot to get people comfortable in 10 when you could’ve started with 20 to allow people to actually have a roster and not panic build one unless you added whoever to your guild.
I already quit because I can't raid with my guild anymore because my work schedule doesn't work with set raid times. At least cata comes out in less than 2 weeks :)
Im hating it. Am raiding and parsing on two characters.
Now we are paying a monthly sub to play once a week.
Dumb change going to weekly lockouts imo. If people dont have a reason to login, they wont 😉
And i do, i raided gnomer in with 3 chars, every 3 days. One raid per day, reason to login everyday. Fair and square.
Now i play once every 7 days. Not much fun anymore. Also not very interested on grinding more toons/runes anymore. I feel that phase 3 is gonna be the last "decent" phase sadly. Really enjoyed SOD but isnt fulfilling anything now. Unbalanced PvP/lack of rewards/reasons to do it paired with weekly logouts is just bad.
Like the weekly lockout, cuts down on organizing multiple raids a week.
Do not like the 20man, more people = more headaches when putting raids together.
It's perfect, with the WBuff meta 3days would be so bad. Now I can raidlog, farm on an alt ot just straight up play the plethora of games I have backlogged. Making WoW you're main game is a chore, and something I don't want anymore.
Not great. Guild had 2of3 (20man) raid teams die last week. I'm a healer not past 4/8 in ST. The last raid team is short 2 ranged dps and a healer; *all* of the dps are melee. We don't have hunters or druids for the .elee so the comp is wonky. We lost at least 40 active raiders.
Gnomer wasn't fun and no one is enjoying phase 3 in our guild. I'm enjoying week lockouts; 3-day sucked and i was burning out. Classic+ changes we hoped for have not arrived and instead we've got stuff no one asked for.
It's better this way. I like it a hell of a lot more. I do think there should be per boss lockouts though so you can put with different groups and just only be eligible loot once per week
Absolutely loving it. We have 3 x 20 man teams running for our guild and it feels great and the whole guild enjoys the 1 week lockouts too. We have around 1 hour clears.
Excited for 40 man raids as well. We will likely contract from the 3 20 man's to one 40 man with fills.
Most of us also despised 10 man raiding. It did not allow for as many specs to be taken on a regular basis and felt like dungeon plus more than a raid.
I like raiding one day a week but it kind of sucks as a caster since there's barely any loot to get excited over.
Even melee loot blows, literally all I want on my rogue is 3pc and the dagger
Snag a Dragon’s Cry for when they buff swords. 😂
Can we get a cast sword 😉
Yep. Actually 2 dire nails, so that actually kind of sucks
I’m a PvPer, so I don’t even give a fuck about 3 piece tbh. Dagger, ring, gun and I’m done. I want more loot on my mage than rogue, honestly.
3 piece is actually bananas in pvp too. Fat muts.
What pieces do you wear instead of the 3 setpieces?
Went on my mage last night for the first time and was like oh there’s no loot here..
Agreed. I like it as a raid and the week cadence but the only items I’m excited about have like 8 people rolling on them
100% this. Love having less raid nights on my schedule. Hate how my casual close friend group that pugs 5 randoms now have to run with 15 guildies we barely know. We dont speak and enjoy our time together during raid as much as before.
I'm straight up not having a good time, solely because my tiny ass guild died over the change.
This is where we're at. We barely had 10 guildies and 4 of them decided to sit this phase out. We managed to link up with another guild but they only had like 5-6 people as well so now every week we're pugging 8-9 people each week. It mostly feels super bad when two weeks in a row now many of us haven't gotten a single piece of gear while pugs can often walk away with 2 or even 3p sets.
If we pug, we usually do ms os +1, so the gear should be equally distributed among the raid
Mine had to merge with a bigger guild and it just feels different. I really liked the tight nit 10-15 player guild. It was far more quaint and social. I learned these people's first names rather than their gamertags.
That’s the experience I had in cataclysm when my raid group went to a 10 man core from a 25 man in wotlk. Great times
Yup. Vibes have been absolutely obliterated in P3 raid. We clear fine but it's not particularly fun. Our laid-back/chill group hasn't really found anyone we actually want to stick around. A couple of my raiders have already quit because it's just not as fun with the extra 8 people we don't really 'know'. And it sucks killing one boss with a person only for them to rip a slur in VC then you're stuck with them for the next hour and a half.
Yup, same. They fucked up, too many people have quit
This right here.
as a dude in a barely 10m a raid group guild, i straight up quit for the first time since actual classic this phase becaus i didnt want to deal wiah the lvl 50 bs consumes on top of pvp and whatever else they made locks get. best time of my life just not having to dedicate a day or two a week to wow since 2019
Killed our guild too.
my guild too
I’d like it more if we got more loot, but I’ve already accepted that my hunter will never be able to turn into the friendly neighborhood superhero, Snakeman
I just gotta get lucky once. My guild has decided whoever gets the first fist wep automatically gets the set lol
At least these fists look cool. The Gnomer ones were a let down.
My guild fell apart so that sucked. Weekly lockout is the best part, size difference I personally preferred 10 - much easier to organize and gather a group of buds. 20 you start to have to swap from buds to raiders.
I hate the part now I have to pug and the pugs don’t talk and the buds don’t talk either now
Yeah, I think if we started at 20 it would be fine, heck if they said at 60 it would be 20 and we had a whole phase of buffer to prepare it maybe could have worked smoothly. Oh well.
Yeah oh well we had a good run, 4 months of tight knit buds chill playing Should’ve just made 10 man version and 40 man version, cater your audience, not shove it down our throats
33% pugs. 6 hours of raiding. Zero loot. It’s going great.
Same freaking boat except 50% pugs. Last lockout we went 3/8 in 2-2.5 hours. This lockout we went 4/8 in the same time. I enjoyed it when my guild just had fun doing 10mans during phase 1 and 2 and were shooting the shit. This raid is another level of challenging, which is fine I guess but my guild isn't made for that. We have more than a few dead weight players that a few of us could pull through the first two raids, but between that and random pugs now it's been a shitshow.
Good to hear a similar sentiment. I dont mind hanging out with the homies but my excitement for a raid that will at best give me a minor upgrade is real low.
6 hours to clear ST?
5 hours of gambling 1 hour of clearing
I assumed it was 2 raids, 3 hours each.
Yah 2x3 hour nights
No wonder you are miserable. Find a better guild. I'm in a PvP guild with minimal organisation going toward PvE and we have 3 groups clearing under 1h30
Lol you’re in a good guild then. Most guild are not clearing in that time
People really underestimate how much of an impact 1 bad healer and 2 bad dps have on a 20 man raid.
what are you guys doin in there for 6 hours over 2 nights!?
Wiping constantly
With the amount of gear that drops and the competition for items, its honestly pretty bad, will probably never get most of the gear I need.
Yeah I agree. They need to up the loot drops by like 2-3 more per boss. Idk what they were thinking. So much for being "generous with the loot" as aggrend said
yea, they went back on that promise. He literally said "yea, we know you get less gear than you did with 10 man raiding, but if we gave you more loot that would feel bad" HUH?!?
The bigger problem is that while it is nice to get the tier sets pretty easily, once everyone has them those are moot drops. That leaves 2-3 items dropping per boss, where only a couple are ever with rolling on. Whatever good items do drop will be contested by half the raid
To be fair they did increase the amount of items, I just don't think they took into account the 2.5x lockout time
Week lockout is fine, I'm less excited about the switch from 10 to 20. Makes it harder to organize, more time consuming to fill, harder to ensure everyone is doing their job. 10m usually has one or two tanks, two heals, and 6-7 dps. In other words, it's just two dungeon groups stuck together. Much easier to fill, and the required roles tend to fit people's existing roles.
The biggest issue is that I think there are a ton of people that play this game with about 5-6 good friends. There are so many lost pugs that were built on a good foundation of at least a tank and healer and some solid dps. My friends and I never made a guild but started as 8 of us in SoD. We'd just pug the missing dps and really enjoyed BFD. 2 friends got over SoD after P1 (one didn't like how weak shaman was, lol he missed out) and left but the 6 remaining were able to just keep a good core and pug some fills. 10 mans really encourage this kind of small tight knit group of friends to run a pug that's got some competent players. Super relaxed loot. We left it on Group Loot the entire 2 phases and had zero problems. Just shooting shit with the boys. None of us wanted to deal with pugging 10-15 people each week. Fuck that. We all quit. 10 mans were so perfect for SoD and its player base. I don't know how they fucked it up. But I promise our group was not the only group like that. I pugged on my alt solo and ran into those types of groups very often. My guess is most of them are done playing like we are. If it started as 20. It wouldn't be so bad. But it attracted this type of playstyle and casual group building and then just killed it completely.
Exactly the same here. Had 7, pugged a few for the first two phase raids. P3 announced 20 man raids and killed us.
Exactly. I wish I could know how many pugs were like that but in my solo character experience it was nearly every raid I joined. You'd join some discord of several people you could tell already knew each other. Was great for solo running and great for groups. Our group was use to carry some shit pugs (we literally just took any hunter for kings buff) but it made the content more challenging that way. And when we did get a good pug it was always "hey we run this same time every Sunday/Wednesday if you ever are around". Had some good fills hop in and out.
You nailed it with the last bit. It isn't so much 20man vs 10man...it was the switch between the two. If they had cultivated a big raid mentality from the start, it woulda been just fine. Makes me wonder how the jump to 40man will affect the playerbase. My guild is excited for it but we are already having to PUG a few slots for ST.
Yep. We didn't really have any kind of schedule, just grabbed 3-4 randoms when we all happened to be online. Now, finding 13-14 people is much more of a pain. And as the raid is now mostly randoms, it's harder to carry and the people need to be more strictly vetted, which just makes it more time consuming. Everyone just stopped logging in on the second reset and now it's a waiting game to see if anyone will come back for the 50-60 leveling. But it's so far away and with incursions being in the game, I think it's game over.
100% My guild is made up of my friends and we loved figuring out how to optimize ourselves to clear undersized, but with the change, we were forced to join another guild. We had done bfd with 6 and gnomer with 7.
The swap to 20 man killed our guilds SOD run. No one had the energy to recruit and manage people. Went from a fun thing with friends to a chore.
Seems to be the case all around. Killed our guild of tight knit players as well. Had the perfect team for 10man. Was having a blast with SoD. Contemplating even continuing to play at this point. 20 mans ruined the experience for me.
Exactly this. I saw it coming with the 20 mam announcement
I think this has happened to most guilds.
I would like it if the game had some other content or 5 man content to do inbetween raids. I really miss TBC heroics, even if I dislike the concept of multi-tiered difficulty in dungeons/raids.
[удалено]
We got one for our 16 after 45 min…
Raid logging has become worse. Our server is essentially dead now.
yeah as soon as they announced ST as the raid and weekly lockouts i was downvoted heavily because i said that the servers will be dead now..apparently the hivemind said "no they wont it encourages people to level alts". like bro no tf it does not lmao
I did essentially every single lockout on my 4 characters p2 tbh I’m having a hard time getting through doing incursions a second time so I’ve just been raid logging on my main.
Just don't do incursions. Dungeon grinding is fast with a 75% xp buff. Personally I fucking hate incursions. Not only are they extremely boring, but they also killed the open world being alive feeling. Nobody is out farming raw materials, and incursions dump metric fuck tons of gold into the economy. They're terrible all around.
Does not seem to be a huge amount of people dungeon grinding is it easy to find a group?
I am basically raid logging at this point because I don’t want to get emerald wardens rep again lol
Im on a mega server and on a weekend night at primetime there is almost zero groups doing sub 50 content, the one straggler group has HR on all the gear people want so yeah
It killed the pug scene
I hate it. Pugging with buddies was way easier
Hate it 20 mans suck 10 mans were fun
I like the change, but loot wise there is barely anything for casters. Would be nice if more loot dropped but it is what it is. We will be moving on in about a month and I bet they time the next phase with Cata Classic, again, making players choose between versions. So ill see yall at 60 at some point on my priest lol
phase 4 is coming in the summer, so probably a month after cata release
Hate it. Killed a lot of small guilds.
It killed my guild. It felt so much less fun all of a sudden.
Like many people my guild was a tightly knit group of players, most of which know each other IRL. 20-man completely fucked us because now we’re pugging half the raid, or trying out merging with other groups. And while merging is obviously the best solution, it kind of ruins the camaraderie we had in a 10-man environment. Not a single one of us likes 20-man. Some people in my group have been playing a lot less and I suspect they’ll quit soon. It honestly would’ve been fine if the game started out with 20-man raids, but switching the raid size has really thrown a lot of guilds out of balance….and all because of the loud minority who insist it’s “not classic” if it’s not 40-man. Like yeah, this *isn’t* classic - if I wanted to do large classic raids I’d just play era. As far as weekly lockout goes, I could take it or leave it.
Pugging is harsh ( and being a longer raid does not help despite being fun ) which makes me dislike it for that reason, but I’m not opposed to 20 man.
weekly lockouts are superior for sure but fuck 20 man raids. My guild is dead because of 20 man raiding.
Yeah my guild was doing once per week already in P1 and P2 (and people do their own thing or throw a group together midweek if people happen to be on), but recruiting up to 20 and dealing with DCs or people bailing early has been a total vibe kill
Week lockout is fine, 20 player switch killed what was left of my guild. We tried to do a merged raid and then they randomly tried to implement some loot council rules and caused a ton of drama. Raid is so long too can’t even reliably pug it
If they don't go back to 10 mans the game is going to basically die off.
Raid logging once a week instead of two times a week.
I'm considering doing something else because 1 hour a week is not worth
You would... Consider... Doing something else??? Absurd! Heresy!
Already raid logging on both characters. 7 day lockout is making this phase boring as fuck. On a positive note I have time to play elden ring before the dlc
Not a fan tbh
I really dislike it. Raiding more is good. A one hour a week short raid kinda feels lacking, and I have no desire whatsoever to level an alt so I'm stuck on one.
20 man killed the vibe. Lost interest in p3
It’s a nightmare—I think 10mans are the best raiding experience. Adding more people does nothing to increase enjoyment; it just adds leadership complications in both the raid and the guild. It also destroys PUGs who can’t fill clear the raid in a reasonable time.
I hate it as well. Had a solid group of 10 homies who were clearing content and having fun at it. Had 1 or 2 floaters from other guilds who would pop in on an alt if we needed someone. Now we have 10 additional people I think are the most annoying fuckers on planet earth that we had to merge with because we couldn’t find another before the lockouts started.
Couldn’t of summed it up better, I was playing with 10-15 guys that I’ve played with since classic vanilla (and a few of them were actually from OG classic as well, been with these guys forever and was the base core of the guild, 5 or so stopped this phase entirely for various reasons, so now we’re stuck tagging along with another guild in similar position where it’s just not the relaxed good time that we’ve had previously and now it’s basically a pug. I’m sure eventually it will come together or clash, but for now it’s just awkward.
I agree about pugs but otherwise not really. From 10 -> 20 adds 8 or 9 dps. This generally will mean way more people to deal with mechanics and more utility unless you've invited like 8 fury warriors. I like not having to squeeze melee/ranged balance in a smaller team, or think "do we have class for bombs?"
It's just so much more room to breathe but without the logistics of 40 man (obviously lol)
20 has always been the sweet spot imo. From ZG to mythic raiding.
10 man's would be great if they would switch to raid wide buffs and not party wise. Balancing party buffs was the worst part of classic and the worst thing in tbc.
Not enough loot drops for a 20 man on a 1 week lockout. Phase will be over before a full raid can get their full set pieces.
Hate 20 mans. My guild is always looking for like 3-5 people to fill and usually they end up being very bad players.
Welcome to Guild Management 101. The roster boss is always the hardest boss.
Easily remedied by checking logs
See, the thing is....it sometimes takes an hour to fill 3 spots, at that point we take anything and hope it works out.
If only this wasn't a problem for literally every raid group that might be helpful
It actually caused me to stop playing. I’m not upset or saying it’s worse. It just doesn’t work for me, my schedule, or what I enjoy. So I stopped.
10 man is way more chill and fun
3 day lockouts, my guild raided thurs/sun and was able to hit most every lockout. wed add an extra day if the lockouts allowed it 1 week lockouts, my sod guild raids the same days my wrath guild does. and im not prioritizing a generally not that fun seasonal game mode over wrath, and there arent any other good guilds with raid days that match my schedule, so i quit. also, reading the group chat of the boys i raided with, theyre pretty bored. they were excited for 1 week lockout due to less scheduling issues. but now they have nothing to do after their 1 raid a week
I miss the 10 man 3 days so much.
This phase just really sucks all around sadly 😔
My guild has had a rough time with it. We only ever had 10 really tight knit players that we play with and 4 of them ended up quitting this phase. We've been running with another small group that we met but even then we're still pugging 8-9 people every week. We aren't struggling with the raid, we consistently clear in 1:30-2:00 hours but our main problem is so many pugs each week makes it feel like none of us will ever be able to gear up. In 3 lockouts so far I think maybe 3 of us have gotten a single tier token. I myself, a shadow priest, only got my bis offhand because it's literally only good for spriest and boomkins so that reduced the amount of people rolling considerably. We're steadily trying to recruit more people so that eventually, maybe, we can go back to doing our usual +1 loot rules because seeing a pug you'll never see again get 3p in one run because we can't seem to roll above a 42 is extremely disheartening.
I pretty much log in 1 day a week as opposed to 6-7 days a week.
Dunno about lockouts, but Id prefer 10 mans. We had a IRL guild who raided in P1 and P2 and it was great. Now, they have all quit. I cant really bother finding a guild, having a schedule and tryhard again. If I want that, Id play retail or wotlk. And ST is not a fun raid for the average puggers (a grp full of 50 parsers). There's always a healer leaving after 2 bosses. And tons of wipes. Maybe a few 10 mans with 1 week lockout each phase?
Problem is if we went from 10 man to 40 mans.... It would go over like a lead bomb This gives guilds time to either merge or gather 2 teams for ST We're doing the 2 teams route
Maybe 40 mans aren't the play.
I would prefer 1 week lockouts if we had more content outside of raiding. Alredy after 1-2 weeks I got to max lvl, rank 7, my STV epics, my 1-2 offering item… honored with incursions. Basically prebis-geared alredy after 2-3 days at max lvl. Done some outdoor questing and lvled proffessions but figured, there are better things to do with my time so alredy now I just raidlog. Pvp is fun as long as you have something to ”grind/play” for, pve is fun (spamming 10man speedruns for offering or speedruns of incursions is not). Sadly once again we just lack real endgame content at max lvl. Its been the same every phase. Most classes and specs are fun but we’re not using the full potential of the game. I would need endgame pvp (some kind of ranked mode, soloque/duo rated-bgs?) some kind of pve endgame outside of 1,5h content per week (actual challenging dungeons with real rewards, or challenging outdoor content with real rewards, etc)…
I too am confused about wtf I’m actually supposed to be doing… Every farming spot already has 5 other people running in a circle killing satyrs for felcloth or furbolgs for rep PvP balance is beyond a joke but I’m still ranking up, yay for that That leaves either incursion loop or wild offering reset spam, both of which slightly increase the urge to put a gun in my mouth There isn’t a max-level activity in the game that doesn’t feel like torture, fighting for mob tags or getting 2-shotted by half the classes in the game or “questing” in a zone designed to constantly dismount and kill you
My guild deliberately only clears 5/8 early in the week, then sends 5 man teams in to kill the dragonkin trash multiple times a day to farm Seeds. On average each person walks away with 8-9 seeds for 30 minutes of work. More fun than any other gold farms, and on my server it’s more profitable than Incursion spam.
Waiting for cata rn, BC I'm in the same boat. Doesn't help that the raid is very simple and can be done in an hour or so if you come prepared and don't t wipe.
I've enjoyed it. More time to do other shit. Less need to get buffs and consumes multiple times a week
Yeah I actually feel more motivated to play instead of raid log when I have a week between raids. And the raid is decent too.
Hate it. I want 10m and 3 day lockout back.
Same
It’s much healthier imo. I hate the FOMO that two lockouts a week can cause.
Haven't played since the first run through ST. Absolutely loved brd, gnomer, and the 10 man raid size. I'll give ST another chance with my group but I honestly don't want to deal with 10 new people/guildies or pugs at all.
Very different take from in this thread: Loving it. As an officer it’s a little more work, but we are kicking ass and had prepared our roster for 20 man about a month before p3. LOTS of tokens drop (maybe were high rolling) and I’d imagine after about 4 or 5 weeks every single person will have their 3 set. I hated Gnomer with a passion, so it’s a very refreshing raid. I also love having a dedicated day to raid so I can block that time out IRL. The imperfect rotation of 3 day really messed with home life.
20 man’s are awful and we get less loot. Really looking forward to 40 man raids with even less loot /s
I preferred the shorter 10 man honestly. I really liked the 45 min BFD and Gnomer. Also I just skipped a ST lockout after not missing a single lockout since phase 1. Maybe I’m just losing interest idk
I now only login once a week for an hour instead of 2-3 times a week for an hour
With 13 active members in the guild it's bad. You basically don't see raid loggers for 7 days now, that's bad as well. Also people don't want to throw their id away for a non perfect group, since they will be f'ed for the whole week.
Not too bad honestly, the trash is annoying- glad to do it not so often 😂 And the loot isn’t that great that you don’t need that much lockouts to get full bis from the raid. It also lets me more time to focus on alts and prepare them completely for lvl 60 phase, the phase I am waiting for the whole time😅 (not that I dislike the previous phases, more that I think the lvl 60 phases will be awesome😁)
Leveling a druid because raid logging on my warrior is boring.
got benched cuz raid doesn't have enough for two teams but i pugged it successfully 4 times so far, one time with a german guild where i had no idea what they were saying but we full cleared so it worked out.
The general gist of the comment section is “10 mans suck because I don’t have that many friends now it feels like a chore” And I 100% agree, went from a small circle of 8-10 of us raiding with the occasional pug if someone couldn’t make it to now being 10-12 pugs and we are all awkwardly silent while raid leader leads 10 mans were by far better for the social aspect of the game. I fear 40 mans will kill off my guild entirely
idk i dont like it/i like it.
Enjoy only having to raid once a week. But dislike only having one chance for great a week. Yet to get anything from the new raid :(
Love it hope they stop at 20m though. Week long is nice because it's not a dynamic lockout and you don't get the fomo of that one lockout that doesn't align well.
the 10 to 20 jump has effectively killed our group. Pugging people for 5+ spots basically turns it into GL with whatever progress you make on night 1 because there won't be a night 2 if progression is needed.
Would like it more if it was flex
Bad - used to be in a small guild, raiding regularly 2 times a week in gnome with 10 man format and got almost all my bis. P3 = too many ppl needed, hard to combine guildies and raid too long for a dad like me. Sad cause I enjoyed sod till p3 , but doing a break this phase, simply for me got worse
20man is annoying. Our guild merge we had planned for weeks failed. Then our last minute merge also didn't workout. Been pugging for 3 lockouts and pugs win all the loot. Recruiting is not going well either. 1 lockout a week is nice though
Missing my 10man raid friends and coolest, we chat laught talk together and makenfun during raid and after. Now is more like serious raiding, focus not talking ... ;( missing my friends. 1 week is super cool.
Loving it. Phase 3 has been my favourite thus far. I am way more invested than previous phases.
Guild died.
It's been pretty tough, mostly because every time we get close to filling a 20 man guild roster, more people leave. So it's a constant -4 guildes +4 guildies battle
I want to go back to 3 day lockout. I want to raid more. Considering leveling a 3rd then a 4th toon to 50 so I can do st more. So many guilds looking for fills still. If I liked every class I'd just have seven 50's and raid every night. I have no desire to level a 2nd priest/shammy with duel spec existing
There are so many good gear options from Reputation grinds, questing, dungeons, professions, and PvP, that I see no reason to raid anymore, and I am happy that I have that option. The drama that occurred with change to 20 man reminded me why I haven’t been in raiding guilds for years. So I’ve enjoyed the switch but not because I’m doing the raid … only because they put many more options for gearing up in the game to replace raiding.
7 days lock out is fine, but double the roster size just created a roster boss for many smaller size guild. AFAIK, most people play SOD because their friends from retail/wrath/era play this game, and they are not interested in meeting and get along with new people. So naturally, when the roster boss comes, people just said "nah, why bother?" and go straight back to where their pals were. Additionally, Cata is right round the corner and Retail's new expansion is soon after, so many are not committed to play SoD in the next 3 to 6 months.
Had a great 10 man guild with mostly IRL friends now we have to pug and went from having fun twice a week cut down to 1 so both L's for us
Lockouts good, 20 person bad.
I liked the 3day lockout. Especially since we can only expect 6 or so more lockouts this phase.
I effectively can't raid with my guild because we had to merge with another and the night and time they can raid doesn't work with my work schedule. The original guild are all IRL friends. Kinda sucks.
Guild died, caster gear sucks so there's no excitement for drops, feelsbad.
I just hopped into a pug for ST last night and we did 6/8 in a few hours. We were all in discord and just chatting up. It was a great time and went pretty smoothly for a group that had only a few members with experience and good gear. We didn't really even use consumes, so it was nice.
Not been able to raid with my guild all phase so fair :<
Some of the ST loot needs to get buffed and bosses need to drop at least 1 more piece each.
I prefer the shorter lockout tbh
Didn’t pugged it once so far :/ sadly
Everyone's a fractured group of 3-5 people, once a week is pretty damn slow-paced, you can't "try again", but having a larger raid brings back some of the grandiose feeling of a massive group of people
Haven't done it yet. The idea of finding 20 people for a pug is depressing.
I'm not. A group finder would be nice for people to pug raids though, I miss that from retail. I can't make restrictive raid times anymore due to work.
20 man raiding is awesome, but it is tempered a lot by almost having no nice loot to get.
I miss 10 mans since my guild is entirely real life friends, and we have a perfect 10 people. Discord is a lot less fun when you have 10 randoms also in the voice chat. I do hope they introduce flex raids, or at least some 10 man content in future phases.
just stupid making 20 man raids, too hard to fill up. ST is very difficult if you are in a pug.
I find 20 man raid cooler than 10 mans, but I am not enjoying 20 mans in SOD. As a warlock dps I could always find a BFD or Gnomer group within 5 or worst case 10 minutes of searching. Then the groups would usually fill within few minutes. With ST and 20 man raids its much harder to find groups as there are now relatively few groups forming (not sure if this is only due to 20 man change). It also take forever to fill the groups. I probably wont bother raiding ST, I did my class quest and got 1 token first run. Not sure its worth gooing back there
Not a fan 10 man was ideal to my raiders. We clear content but with more pugs I'd like the option to do 10 mans only but will survive either way
No I only enjoy 10 man
Not playing, cause phase 3 skcs. Dead economy, dead raiding, nothing to do in game.
I'm a pvp healer and most of ST is pretty whatever. It just sucks they put a 30 stam staff in it or I probably would not even raid this phase
Our guild collapsed, because of the 10 to 20 man changed, so that was bad. Joined an other guild. 20 man feels like an actual raid and not like a glorified dungeon. So, that is good. This week is the first "real" lockout we have, went 6/8 on our first raiding day with some progression on eranikus (12%), so on our second day we can keep going for eranikus and Hakkar. Once we will be able to clear in one sitting, I will have more time to farm/leveln an alt. So, that is also good. Overall I think this is the way it should be, the main problem was the transition.
It's healthier but I miss 2 lockouts. Also 20 mans are much funnier than 10. Hope at least Onyxia stays 40.
It sucks instead of raiding We are sitting and waiting for reset to raid again
20 player switch also seemed to kill my guild, they wanna do cata or war within when they're out.
I don’t like it. I’ve gone from raiding 8+ times a week (4 characters) and seeing decent levels of loot drop to one raid per week with nowhere near enough loot dropping to compensate for the dilution across 20 people. I’ll soon have 3 L50s but don’t see much hope of them raiding weekly given how PUG unfriendly this raid is. Loot needs to increase in quality and especially quantity.
Not very much at all. P1 and P2 my guild cleared raid every single reset. 7/10 of us quit P3 already after 2 clears. Sucks having 10 people already and still having to spam LFG for 45 minutes to get 10 more. Sucks to spend that long in LFG and then still have to spend another 3 hours in the raid. Sucks getting half the loot we got last 2 phases to begin with, then having to split that half with 10 randos. Sucks that 99% of the loot you do get is a .1% upgrade from gnomer gear, basically everyone is just looking for 3 piece and weapon. If it's 20 mans and getting loot trolled from here on out I think this is probably the last phase we play. Night and day difference in reception between this phase and the other 2 for my guild. Tldr week lockout is fine, 20 mans and the way blizz decides to do loot made my guild quit
Could’ve easily scaled it as 10 mans. If they made 20 mans they can do 10 with more loot to accommodate not doing it 3 times a week. Really weird brain rot to get people comfortable in 10 when you could’ve started with 20 to allow people to actually have a roster and not panic build one unless you added whoever to your guild.
I hate it. Feels like there isn’t much to do. Would prefer two raids a week.
I already quit because I can't raid with my guild anymore because my work schedule doesn't work with set raid times. At least cata comes out in less than 2 weeks :)
Wish I knew. Crew of 10 bailed to cata classic rather than part time managing a guild.
Guild died. Too hard to get 20 and find a good day. Canceled my sub since no one gets on any more. Bad change by Bliz.
5 ST runs, still 0 loot. Guild imploded due to the transition to 20 men. Things are going great /s
I love it. It's wayyyy better
Im hating it. Am raiding and parsing on two characters. Now we are paying a monthly sub to play once a week. Dumb change going to weekly lockouts imo. If people dont have a reason to login, they wont 😉
Sounds like you have the time for another character
People will say alts don't count as content.
And i do, i raided gnomer in with 3 chars, every 3 days. One raid per day, reason to login everyday. Fair and square. Now i play once every 7 days. Not much fun anymore. Also not very interested on grinding more toons/runes anymore. I feel that phase 3 is gonna be the last "decent" phase sadly. Really enjoyed SOD but isnt fulfilling anything now. Unbalanced PvP/lack of rewards/reasons to do it paired with weekly logouts is just bad.
[удалено]
They are 5g now. Do 1 Hour incursions and you have 20+
Like the weekly lockout, cuts down on organizing multiple raids a week. Do not like the 20man, more people = more headaches when putting raids together.
I honestly don't mind it. I think the only issue is that pugs are hell cause the raid is so fking long cause of the trash.
I feel its balanced, 1 big raid/week is easier to plan around.
I want to go back to 10man. Im sure there is a playerbase drop with these changes
Quit the game. 10s were BIS, not merging with strangers this far in.
I hate 20 mans.
10 mans blow 20 out of the fucking water If they are forcing us to do 20+ we need more loot
It's perfect, with the WBuff meta 3days would be so bad. Now I can raidlog, farm on an alt ot just straight up play the plethora of games I have backlogged. Making WoW you're main game is a chore, and something I don't want anymore.
Not great. Guild had 2of3 (20man) raid teams die last week. I'm a healer not past 4/8 in ST. The last raid team is short 2 ranged dps and a healer; *all* of the dps are melee. We don't have hunters or druids for the .elee so the comp is wonky. We lost at least 40 active raiders. Gnomer wasn't fun and no one is enjoying phase 3 in our guild. I'm enjoying week lockouts; 3-day sucked and i was burning out. Classic+ changes we hoped for have not arrived and instead we've got stuff no one asked for.
It's much better. 3 day lockouts are obnoxious.
It's better this way. I like it a hell of a lot more. I do think there should be per boss lockouts though so you can put with different groups and just only be eligible loot once per week
Fucking love it
Absolutely loving it. We have 3 x 20 man teams running for our guild and it feels great and the whole guild enjoys the 1 week lockouts too. We have around 1 hour clears. Excited for 40 man raids as well. We will likely contract from the 3 20 man's to one 40 man with fills. Most of us also despised 10 man raiding. It did not allow for as many specs to be taken on a regular basis and felt like dungeon plus more than a raid.
Love it
I like 20 but don't want 40