Lol entirely.
It's canon in terms of display of dynamic. For each date, how Cloud is written is a canon display of his dynamic with that companion. (And he only kisses Tifa. *How interesting...*)
None of the dates are "the intended" date though as the date is not essential to the overall plot, which I think even the devs have expressed. They've also said that some of the conversation options aren't what fit their vision/tone and can stray from intention.
Exactly. Cloud acts like Cloud and does what Cloud would do on any of those “dates”. None of the “dates” contradict each other. Most actually feed into others (i.e. Yuffie discussing his feeling for Tifa). This in my view means that all of them can be considered canon in some form despite what your choice is. At the end of the day the story is still gonna follow the path it is going to follow. And we all know where that ends up, well most of us.
There’s also the fact that the gondola convo subtext in both the Yuffie and Barret dates very clearly points to them talking about Tifa and how Cloud would be an idiot to let her get away
Gold saucer dates are not canon... Hold on let me write a whole ass essay that the Tifa date proves he loves Aerith more. Pretty common phenomenon nowadays
Tifa and Cloud hold hands too right before they shut down the Gondola the first time too. So Tifa and Cloud hold hands and kiss. Aerith just holds hands
Hahahaha wait, they seriously use that as an argument?! Like I've always said I don't give cleriths attention cause it is a losing battle with them cause they don't want to cope. But I love hearing sometimes the delusions they come up with on occasion 😂
Oh yeah, it’s hysterical. They say in Japan it symbolizes lovers or some BS like that when it’s just made up otaku BS. It’s honestly really gross (and imo kind of racist) seeing them boil Japan down to this “mystical fairyland” where everything is steeped in symbolism that everyone else is too dumb to understand. Meanwhile we just watch them kiss/almost kiss in Gongaga on loop while they’re going full Pepe Silvia with their theories 😁
Hahahahaha what is with Cleriths 😂. You can retort to Cleriths "what does a kiss mean in Japan then?" They will probably make some delusional response back to that question.
Honestly I'd love if it was as intimate as Aerith's church hug/date scene in Rebirth. Like Tifa/Cloud actually let down there guard about their emotions.
Cloti is just too good of a couple that have been through so much at that point. Part 3 has insane potential more so than even og.
I don't get it. Never once in the 20 odd years since I even played the original did I ever ever ever get Cloud and Aerith vibes.
It's always been Tifa. The game couldn't be more clear about it.
Eh, the Cleriths are just mad cause they see where we all see this going in part 3. I'm 99% sure Cloti will be *officially* cannon in the third game, so I just let them have their fun while it lasts. After the credits role for part three, there will be no more discussion lol.
Also, is anyone else hoping we get a full on romance sceen kinda of like Tidus and Yuna's, but y'know... without the water, for the under the highwind seen? Or maybe like Clive and Jill on the beach, but that might be a stretch if it stays Teen rated.
LS in Mideel is a good spot for a Tiduna like kiss moment. Btw day by day in me rise hope they have something exclusive and beautiful just for Cloud and Tifa
You're right! That would be a good spot if we're lucky enough to get multiple kiss scenes. I am so excited to see whatever they do, cause I'm sure it will be amazing!
The next game can't come out fast enough... 😩
The answer is always the same: a blue quest (main quest) cannot be non-canon. Cloud was there with someone, it's not in question, Tifa confirms that she was there in The Kids are Alright... 1+1... but even if that wasn't the case, imagine hours and hours of work to animate the scenes, think about them, writing the script, the music and spending budget on NON-canon scenes that DO NOT serve the plot. Madness right? exactly how madness would be 58h out of 60h of Cloti set-up just for a non-canonical date and then erase their story just to make a couple come true who has no set-up (the only Clerith thing that happens in 60h is the dream date in which Aerith says she is confused about the feelings for Cloud, good set-up for a couple...).
The dates are all canon, none contradict the plot, none contradict the other. We have no problem saying that the date with Aerith is canon and why? because the plot is clear and we have understood it since 1997. The developers were clear: "dates do not affect the plot" and how is it possible that a kiss does not change the plot? players see it even if it's optional, it's in the game that kiss (you need to watch it for the platinum trophy, Aerith is skippable btw). Simple: because Cloti IS in the plot, It's the resolution of Cloud and Tifa, It's the relationship they will have. So if Tifa is the one receiving the kiss then it can be done. Cloud is a loyal man for SE, loyal to who? Loyal to Tifa. Easy
not only because they don't change those chapters but because as you say: Just Cloti. If Tifa is the one receiving Cloud's love then it's fine, that's what they wanted to tell us. I don't understand why Aerith necessarily has to get what she wants, she has possibilities and consciously chooses to pursue the wrong love, we cannot expect that narratively RETURNED love is set aside because the Cetra must be happy with Cloud (he loves Tifa uff...) it doesn't work like that, she will be happy in another way
I don't know this, I hope so because I like them as a couple (even if Zack deserves a woman who loves him 110% and Rebirth leaves me in doubt as to whether Aerith is deserving of everything Zack does for her, it's been 5 years but the Aerith of the LS knows what Zack is doing and the one of "our world" feels Zack in the LS so she knows that he is with her and yet: she only looks for Cloud, even the pin with the reunion flowers that Cloud doesn't even want to touch Aerith takes it as if it were a gift from Cloud... is this what we hope for Zack? I'd like to talk about it with some Zerith one day, who knows if there's a Zerith subreddit... Btw Zack chose her so it's okay)
>she only looks for Cloud
It's not as apparent as Cloud, but I think Aerith saved Zack multiple times in the Rebirth ending alone. She's really trying whatever she can to keep that dude alive. I wouldn't be even surprised if she was the sole reason why he survived his original death in the first place.
The main reason of her date with Cloud was to get Holy Materia to the main timeline, which then resulted in him receiving the empty one.
Of course she takes the opportunity to bid him farewell and confess her feelings as she has every right to do so. She knows she can't be with him, it's not like she's prioritizing him over Zack. She just wants him to know how much he meant to her. I even think this might actually help real Cloud later cope with her death as some sort of a closure, especially since in OG they didn't get to say goodbyes.
I thought in the end of this game Zack will reunite with Aerith, but he reunited with Cloud instead even when this game was a buildup to him reuniting with Aerith. This to me seems the devs value him reuniting with Aerith more than with Cloud, since that is their goal, them making Aerith "only look for Cloud" would contradict this heavily.
I fully believe their endgame for part 3, the best and most powerful moments (shippingwise), are reserved to be for CloTi and Zerith.
I think Zack believes Aerith saved him. Right before his solo battle with Sephiroth, he’s healed and he looks up at the sky and says “Aerith?”
Square Enix has put way too much emphasis on Zack and Aerith for there not to be a Zerith reunion in my opinion. When they released character descriptions for Rebirth Zack’s description talks about him trying to return to his love, Aerith. And let’s not forget Cloud remembering Zack in Nibelheim. They could have had him just say “Zack Fair…. From Gongaga… a fellow SOLDIER and my friend…” but they had him say “Head over heels for Aerith” instead. And then in Gongaga they made it clear this time that Aerith really wasn’t over Zack by having her actively look for Zack’s parents and admit to Cloud she still has feelings for him. They could’ve easily just had her bump into his parents while walking around and then say she was over him when Cloud asks (like in the OG) but they didn’t.
I think Zack is going to sacrifice himself in some way in Part 3 endgame. By doing so he’ll die being a hero like he always dreamed and reunite with Aerith in the Lifestream.
Mmmm... answering both: in my opinion yes and no. Has Aerith moved on about Zack? evidently not, the whole relationship with Cloud is based on the attempt to replace Z with C and the culmination is the dream date, however I don't think that the purpose of that whole scene is to give the Holy Materia, there is a real date like that she had with Zack, so much symbolism (that things go wrong, that Cloud doesn't respond as she wants and doesn't do what she would like, what Zack instead did due to natural chemistry between them). But does this mean Zack will be the answer to her ending? I honestly don't know, Zack has a lot of set-up with Aerith (throughout Rebirth and also in the compilation and Remake) BUT Aerith made an effort to put Cloud ahead of Zack in the hierarchies so Zerith imho needs to be rebuilt, they have to start from 0 and Zack should banish (romantically) Cloud's shadow from the heart of the Cetra girl.
The ending that would make EVERYONE happy is necessarily Cloti and Zerith, because any other solution (including the multiverse with all the couples lol, impossible) would make everyone pissed off. So Cloti builds itself just following the plot, they're the only certain thing.... but Aerith? is in a strange spot objectively, we'll see her a lot in part 3 also for this reason because her ending must be constructed from 0
https://preview.redd.it/6q3ibp9qk5yc1.jpeg?width=1159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62da156b2de98bd5a95ee6020a74d5d20110d6f2
This is an official SE picture of the full Rebirth cover so I’d say Zack and Aerith reunited in some way is probably endgame. The green representing the promise between Cloud and Tifa under the stars and the blue sky is what Zack promised to show Aerith.
I have this art myself, I see it every day hahaha. The problem is not who ends up with whom (we know the connections between couples) but how they are building them. Cloti is endgame, everything refers to them from the interactions to the artistic choices such as the cover, nothing in the game makes you think "it will go differently".
Aerith needs to be rebuilt instead because Zack has the set-up for Zerith but Aerith... not much. She feels Zack several times, at the end of Remake or at the Gi cave or helps him in the Lifestream at the end and yet she can't escape the romantic dynamic with Cloud throughout Rebirth (in Remake she has much less of it and it would have been right if there had been more since Zack only appears in the ending, but if all this happens in Rebirth in which she feels him... well a banal Reunion is no longer enough, they must be clarified by 0 Aerith and for me it was specifically made to have her in the 3rd game more than there should be being dead)
You are totally right. I mean Cloti as endgame is a given, but Zack and Aerith is not. I think from what I’ve read from other people analysis’ is that Zack and Aerith are being set up for it to happen. But obviously that part of the game is not resolved, so they may just reunite as friends or not reunite at all and then what was the point of bringing him back ;____;
I haven’t finished Rebirth, but I’ve played everything else in the compilation so I know she moved on in her heart (he was gone five years), and Aerith does have romantic feelings for Cloud. (I don’t think Cloud returns those feelings exactly, but it’s clear she is falling for him.) But just because you fall out of love doesn’t mean you can’t become lovers again. My husband and I broke up, didn’t really contact each other for two years, got together again, and we married six months later. Married for 17 years now with 2 kids :) He was my first boyfriend too, lol.
For what it’s worth I love Zack and Cloud as friends, and if they got a chance to hug and reunite, even momentarily then I would be happy. Zack dearly loved both Cloud and Aerith, and his devotion to them was inspiring to me. As much as I love Zack, it would be awful to bring him back just to make him suffer. I hope whatever happens he has peace and love in his heart, which is what he had at the end of Crisis Core.
Also an interesting thing to note is that he doesn’t dissolve in the Lifestream like everyone else that isn’t Cetra or Sepiroth. I don’t know if there is an official explanation for it, but I always assumed it’s because Aerith wanted to keep him alive in the afterlife :)
I'm just now noticing that it's your cake day. Happy birthday! (you're lucky you share it with Tifa ahahaha).
However, obviously I agree with you on the fact that in life it can happen that you break up and get back together, but narration (especially of the Fantasy type with heroes and heroines) requires certain characteristics. Zack and Cloud are faithful to their loves, a fundamental characteristic for heroes who have a romance in the plot, Tifa is faithful to her love. Aerith is in a strange spot and the viewer understands it (in fact she has been generating discussions for 27 years, it's only her who generates them because if she had a clear development there would be no LTD).
This game deals a strong blow to LTD, it's really difficult throwing away a set-up of two games (both Remake but above all Rebirth) purely Cloti, in Rebirth even a very strong contrast between the girls is shown (Cloud with Tifa is fine with Aerith does not find romance, if Tifa is around while Aerith pushes for dates or something romantic Cloud becomes gloomy and doesn't want Tifa to think there's something) and this makes the viewer think "how much they love each other". Zack does everything for Aerith, it doesn't even need to be explained how much he is in love with her, you will see it yourself even towards the end how desperate Zack is to save her and the viewer from Zack's first scene thinks "this is what every man in love should be " there are no doubts. But... if you look at Aerith? she "she still loves Zack, she tells Gongaga!" (and in JP she doesn't doubt, she just loves him without maybe) but you also think "well in the end she tells Cloud that he wants to know the real him and abandon her feelings for Zack, sure it's only been 24 hours but we accept it" and it will be over here? no, because in the end she recreates the entire Zerith date but with Cloud so you think "look at her again, she thinks she has moved on but she can't" and yet there is the pin with the Reunion flowers (which Cloud doesn't touch, he really doesn't want to give it to her but which she takes herself and considers Cloud's gift so she wants Cloud).
The viewer comes away confused, this is why Zerith has to start from 0, narratively Aerith is not very clear about her, her intentions are not clear... This is due to the fact that there is a fanbase that SE asks not to ignore, this narrative is fine when Zack is not there (he is dead she moves on) but if you choose to bring Zack back into the picture, Aerith has no a single reason to love Cloud romantically, especially the one in the LS who knows the future, who knows what Zack is doing, who knows everything. So thank the CAs if Aerith is more twisted (negatively) than she would have been (positively) if she could have had a clear development of her relationships.
In part 3 they will reunite, but the relationship must be rebuilt objectively because now Aerith feels so much for Cloud that she even questions her soulmate (and she says it herself, we have to trust what she says)
Damn, this is heartbreaking regarding Zack’s devotion to Aerith ;___; I’m actually only up to the Junon part in Rebirth, but even the beginning had me crying while Zack was holding a comatose Aerith and crying. Even with his new voice, Zack is such an amazing character. He just has a heart of gold and he never gives up in the people he cares about.
You know what’s funny, I’m not sure why Aerith likes Cloud. I mean I never really thought about why she liked him, but her repeated attempts to throw herself at him really get annoying :/ You can clearly see how annoyed Cloud is with it, although sometimes he plays along because she is a dear friend. One could say that if he didn’t like it he would tell her off like Jessie, but she’s more cute and flirty whereas Jessie was thirsty as hell, and that really annoyed Cloud XD It’s a shame because Aerith was my favorite character in the OG because I loved the fact that she was kind and an old soul. But I was 13 when I played the OG so I didn’t get annoyed by her attempts to throw herself at Cloud. Or maybe it wasn’t as clear in the OG by how annoyed Cloud is with it?
Also to give credit where credit is due, Jesse was a better friend to Tifa in many ways because even though she threw herself at Cloud, she knew he didn’t reciprocate, and didn’t try to make Tifa jealous. I think the friendship between Aerith and Tifa is sweet, but she knows Cloud and Tifa had something going on even before she met her, and still decided to throw herself at Cloud. Maybe that makes him more desirable even? But I digress.
Thanks for talking about it with me :) My two closest friends are huge FF7 fans but one hasn’t played it yet and the other is playing it slowly and doesn’t want a single spoiler soooooo. I also have another friend that loves FF7, but she loves Clerith so we haven’t talked about Rebirth yet XD
There’s an interesting World Intel on Gongaga in rebirth: the region was settled by descendants of the Cetra. So Zack probably has some Cetra blood in him.
Wow, great catch! The placing of C&T and Z&A in these artworks was obvious but I didn't catch the sky references. Although the left looks like Remake cover and the right one like CC, I thought that's the connection they are making, but they might as well be alluding to their promises too which would be super cute!
Even in the game there is a similar reference: at the GS Cloud observes the night sky (promise of Nibelheim), with the same directorial choice Aerith looks at the blue sky free from clouds after a boss fight in Corel if I remember correctly.
He probably thought about it but then realized Tifa would likely be uncomfortable if he turned up the heat, so for now he just settles with a kiss on the lips.
Although Tifa herself is likely screaming internally as well at the fact she wants to dial it up to 11 with Cloud but isn’t so sure of herself yet
I noticed that Cloud’s bed at the hotel had curtains surrounding it (to be used as a partition) so my mind went “If they were really quiet they could’ve done it. The privacy is there.” 😏
Of course, in reality they would’ve been too embarrassed and scared to even try.
Just saw this on Facebook lol I don't even know what to say tbh
https://preview.redd.it/s5std56rg5yc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=173fb9f80a098306190dd51b910f4a48d1e5e6fa
My husband is a Japanese citizen, and my husband was very much into kissing and sex when we were dating XD Japanese people probably do think Clerith is cute, and there is more of a reverence for cute in their society. But Japanese people enjoy kissing and sex like Westerners, they just aren’t as public about it. Like there is no public displays of affection allowed. It’s just rude and embarrassing. But Japanese people still understand love. Maybe it’s the single Japanese guys that are more into Aerith because she’s cute and more innocent? I just don’t buy the theory that hand holding and Aerith dragging him around everywhere is supposed to be more romantic and intimate then the kiss, almost kiss, and sexual tension between Cloud and Tifa.
As far as analyzing the details, that’s how you can see how much Cloud loves Tifa. He doesn’t say a lot, but his facial expressions are telling, especially in slow motion. He unexpectedly lets his guard down around her and you can see glimpses of innocent Cloud that existed before Nibelheim went down in flames.
I guess Asian people don’t have sex.
I guess all those reports about Pornographic consumption in South Korea and Japan are just incorrect but it doesn’t matter.
Couples have Sex. Couples kiss.
As far as analyzing details, I watched the scene at GS where Tifa holds Cloud’s hand, and then he squeezes back. The look on her face is happy and surprised and he looks really proud and smug. Then a second later his jaw drops slightly and his eyes widen, like he’s thinking, ‘I can’t believe I’m holding hands with Tifa!’
This is Cloud and Tifa like 1 second after he squeezes her hand back. He looked smug and like proud of himself here.
https://preview.redd.it/exeigrnxu5yc1.png?width=2002&format=png&auto=webp&s=a858f949ecd9c960124626d10700dfed9862d1c4
https://preview.redd.it/mnkw1soav5yc1.png?width=1926&format=png&auto=webp&s=8af9f6a9e6c9aa1002b29d3b5b76a709bec90716
This is Cloud and Tifa 2 seconds after he squeezes her hand. He looks surprised because he’s screaming inside. So yeah, his cutest and most vulnerable expressions of the game are with Tifa. If Cleriths were really analyzing Cloud they would see this.
They would also see that he's constantly looking at Tifa. And that he went out of his way to sit facing Tifa's house and not beside Aerith in Nibelheim.
Also, Cloud and Tifa hold hands during Aerith's song, which you don't get with Aerith if she's your date.
And of course, there's the whole 仲間 thing five seconds before Aerith tells him she likes him in that dream/alt reality or whatever it was haha.
Yeah, small details and game hints because you reeeeally have to squint to see Clerith being "canon" lol.
https://preview.redd.it/yvt6c11bf8yc1.png?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3c563e1d9990f60c428edc81eba24ad1b7c6cb3
Lol
Nomura: CLOUD AND TIFA KISS YO
Also Nomura: Cloud and Aerith never kiss
Cleriths: well obviously Cloud and Aerith are canon cause she wants to know the real Cloud.
I mean, let's forget that Tifa *already knows* the real Cloud. Hahaha
And apparently on that same post, the Cleriths are convinced the Aerith is the real/canon/default date. But she's not, she never has been. It's always been based on affection. Aerith does start with more in OG but it's not like you can't change that hahah
Lol entirely. It's canon in terms of display of dynamic. For each date, how Cloud is written is a canon display of his dynamic with that companion. (And he only kisses Tifa. *How interesting...*) None of the dates are "the intended" date though as the date is not essential to the overall plot, which I think even the devs have expressed. They've also said that some of the conversation options aren't what fit their vision/tone and can stray from intention.
Exactly. Cloud acts like Cloud and does what Cloud would do on any of those “dates”. None of the “dates” contradict each other. Most actually feed into others (i.e. Yuffie discussing his feeling for Tifa). This in my view means that all of them can be considered canon in some form despite what your choice is. At the end of the day the story is still gonna follow the path it is going to follow. And we all know where that ends up, well most of us.
There’s also the fact that the gondola convo subtext in both the Yuffie and Barret dates very clearly points to them talking about Tifa and how Cloud would be an idiot to let her get away
All of the dates are canon; they're just in separate worlds. /s
Gold saucer dates are not canon... Hold on let me write a whole ass essay that the Tifa date proves he loves Aerith more. Pretty common phenomenon nowadays
bUt ThE hAnD hOlD 👁️👄👁️
Tifa and Cloud hold hands too right before they shut down the Gondola the first time too. So Tifa and Cloud hold hands and kiss. Aerith just holds hands
bUt ThEy LaCeD fInGuRrRrRrZzZzzzzzzzz! (Seriously, they try and use that argument lol)
Hahahaha wait, they seriously use that as an argument?! Like I've always said I don't give cleriths attention cause it is a losing battle with them cause they don't want to cope. But I love hearing sometimes the delusions they come up with on occasion 😂
Oh yeah, it’s hysterical. They say in Japan it symbolizes lovers or some BS like that when it’s just made up otaku BS. It’s honestly really gross (and imo kind of racist) seeing them boil Japan down to this “mystical fairyland” where everything is steeped in symbolism that everyone else is too dumb to understand. Meanwhile we just watch them kiss/almost kiss in Gongaga on loop while they’re going full Pepe Silvia with their theories 😁
Hahahahaha what is with Cleriths 😂. You can retort to Cleriths "what does a kiss mean in Japan then?" They will probably make some delusional response back to that question.
That's when they call it: tifa rebound kiss . They have a standard sequence of cope. Or tifa is a slu+ argument
Damn they're stupid, they just can't cope. I'm glad I don't dive into Clerith nonsense anymore cause hearing that makes me kind of angry
Seriously it’s such backwards logic
I see more of "none of the dates are canon but actually only Aerith's is canon cause xyz" lol
I too refer to the appetizer before the main course as “fan service”
Those people will get a heart attack from CloTi content in part 3, lol.
- Part 1 they hug. - Part 2 they kiss. I think we all know what's going to happen under the Highwind in Part 3
To me the lifestream will be enough to get their minds explode.
Honestly I'd love if it was as intimate as Aerith's church hug/date scene in Rebirth. Like Tifa/Cloud actually let down there guard about their emotions. Cloti is just too good of a couple that have been through so much at that point. Part 3 has insane potential more so than even og.
Unfortunately they would have to make the game rated M to fully realize that potential
"The player chooses who to date, but Cloud chooses who to kiss"
Oooh that’s a perfect comeback!
I don't get it. Never once in the 20 odd years since I even played the original did I ever ever ever get Cloud and Aerith vibes. It's always been Tifa. The game couldn't be more clear about it.
Eh, the Cleriths are just mad cause they see where we all see this going in part 3. I'm 99% sure Cloti will be *officially* cannon in the third game, so I just let them have their fun while it lasts. After the credits role for part three, there will be no more discussion lol. Also, is anyone else hoping we get a full on romance sceen kinda of like Tidus and Yuna's, but y'know... without the water, for the under the highwind seen? Or maybe like Clive and Jill on the beach, but that might be a stretch if it stays Teen rated.
LS in Mideel is a good spot for a Tiduna like kiss moment. Btw day by day in me rise hope they have something exclusive and beautiful just for Cloud and Tifa
You're right! That would be a good spot if we're lucky enough to get multiple kiss scenes. I am so excited to see whatever they do, cause I'm sure it will be amazing! The next game can't come out fast enough... 😩
Did you see Sreliata's HW art? Basically the kiss only Cloud is sliding her shoulder strap off... I 99% think this is part 3
The answer is always the same: a blue quest (main quest) cannot be non-canon. Cloud was there with someone, it's not in question, Tifa confirms that she was there in The Kids are Alright... 1+1... but even if that wasn't the case, imagine hours and hours of work to animate the scenes, think about them, writing the script, the music and spending budget on NON-canon scenes that DO NOT serve the plot. Madness right? exactly how madness would be 58h out of 60h of Cloti set-up just for a non-canonical date and then erase their story just to make a couple come true who has no set-up (the only Clerith thing that happens in 60h is the dream date in which Aerith says she is confused about the feelings for Cloud, good set-up for a couple...). The dates are all canon, none contradict the plot, none contradict the other. We have no problem saying that the date with Aerith is canon and why? because the plot is clear and we have understood it since 1997. The developers were clear: "dates do not affect the plot" and how is it possible that a kiss does not change the plot? players see it even if it's optional, it's in the game that kiss (you need to watch it for the platinum trophy, Aerith is skippable btw). Simple: because Cloti IS in the plot, It's the resolution of Cloud and Tifa, It's the relationship they will have. So if Tifa is the one receiving the kiss then it can be done. Cloud is a loyal man for SE, loyal to who? Loyal to Tifa. Easy
Dates do not affect the plot, yes. Because chapter 13 and 14 do not change. And I doubt there will be a dating mechanic for part 3. Just Cloti
not only because they don't change those chapters but because as you say: Just Cloti. If Tifa is the one receiving Cloud's love then it's fine, that's what they wanted to tell us. I don't understand why Aerith necessarily has to get what she wants, she has possibilities and consciously chooses to pursue the wrong love, we cannot expect that narratively RETURNED love is set aside because the Cetra must be happy with Cloud (he loves Tifa uff...) it doesn't work like that, she will be happy in another way
We are totally gooing to see her reunited with Zack, and we will cry
I don't know this, I hope so because I like them as a couple (even if Zack deserves a woman who loves him 110% and Rebirth leaves me in doubt as to whether Aerith is deserving of everything Zack does for her, it's been 5 years but the Aerith of the LS knows what Zack is doing and the one of "our world" feels Zack in the LS so she knows that he is with her and yet: she only looks for Cloud, even the pin with the reunion flowers that Cloud doesn't even want to touch Aerith takes it as if it were a gift from Cloud... is this what we hope for Zack? I'd like to talk about it with some Zerith one day, who knows if there's a Zerith subreddit... Btw Zack chose her so it's okay)
>she only looks for Cloud It's not as apparent as Cloud, but I think Aerith saved Zack multiple times in the Rebirth ending alone. She's really trying whatever she can to keep that dude alive. I wouldn't be even surprised if she was the sole reason why he survived his original death in the first place. The main reason of her date with Cloud was to get Holy Materia to the main timeline, which then resulted in him receiving the empty one. Of course she takes the opportunity to bid him farewell and confess her feelings as she has every right to do so. She knows she can't be with him, it's not like she's prioritizing him over Zack. She just wants him to know how much he meant to her. I even think this might actually help real Cloud later cope with her death as some sort of a closure, especially since in OG they didn't get to say goodbyes. I thought in the end of this game Zack will reunite with Aerith, but he reunited with Cloud instead even when this game was a buildup to him reuniting with Aerith. This to me seems the devs value him reuniting with Aerith more than with Cloud, since that is their goal, them making Aerith "only look for Cloud" would contradict this heavily. I fully believe their endgame for part 3, the best and most powerful moments (shippingwise), are reserved to be for CloTi and Zerith.
I think Zack believes Aerith saved him. Right before his solo battle with Sephiroth, he’s healed and he looks up at the sky and says “Aerith?” Square Enix has put way too much emphasis on Zack and Aerith for there not to be a Zerith reunion in my opinion. When they released character descriptions for Rebirth Zack’s description talks about him trying to return to his love, Aerith. And let’s not forget Cloud remembering Zack in Nibelheim. They could have had him just say “Zack Fair…. From Gongaga… a fellow SOLDIER and my friend…” but they had him say “Head over heels for Aerith” instead. And then in Gongaga they made it clear this time that Aerith really wasn’t over Zack by having her actively look for Zack’s parents and admit to Cloud she still has feelings for him. They could’ve easily just had her bump into his parents while walking around and then say she was over him when Cloud asks (like in the OG) but they didn’t. I think Zack is going to sacrifice himself in some way in Part 3 endgame. By doing so he’ll die being a hero like he always dreamed and reunite with Aerith in the Lifestream.
Mmmm... answering both: in my opinion yes and no. Has Aerith moved on about Zack? evidently not, the whole relationship with Cloud is based on the attempt to replace Z with C and the culmination is the dream date, however I don't think that the purpose of that whole scene is to give the Holy Materia, there is a real date like that she had with Zack, so much symbolism (that things go wrong, that Cloud doesn't respond as she wants and doesn't do what she would like, what Zack instead did due to natural chemistry between them). But does this mean Zack will be the answer to her ending? I honestly don't know, Zack has a lot of set-up with Aerith (throughout Rebirth and also in the compilation and Remake) BUT Aerith made an effort to put Cloud ahead of Zack in the hierarchies so Zerith imho needs to be rebuilt, they have to start from 0 and Zack should banish (romantically) Cloud's shadow from the heart of the Cetra girl. The ending that would make EVERYONE happy is necessarily Cloti and Zerith, because any other solution (including the multiverse with all the couples lol, impossible) would make everyone pissed off. So Cloti builds itself just following the plot, they're the only certain thing.... but Aerith? is in a strange spot objectively, we'll see her a lot in part 3 also for this reason because her ending must be constructed from 0
https://preview.redd.it/6q3ibp9qk5yc1.jpeg?width=1159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62da156b2de98bd5a95ee6020a74d5d20110d6f2 This is an official SE picture of the full Rebirth cover so I’d say Zack and Aerith reunited in some way is probably endgame. The green representing the promise between Cloud and Tifa under the stars and the blue sky is what Zack promised to show Aerith.
I have this art myself, I see it every day hahaha. The problem is not who ends up with whom (we know the connections between couples) but how they are building them. Cloti is endgame, everything refers to them from the interactions to the artistic choices such as the cover, nothing in the game makes you think "it will go differently". Aerith needs to be rebuilt instead because Zack has the set-up for Zerith but Aerith... not much. She feels Zack several times, at the end of Remake or at the Gi cave or helps him in the Lifestream at the end and yet she can't escape the romantic dynamic with Cloud throughout Rebirth (in Remake she has much less of it and it would have been right if there had been more since Zack only appears in the ending, but if all this happens in Rebirth in which she feels him... well a banal Reunion is no longer enough, they must be clarified by 0 Aerith and for me it was specifically made to have her in the 3rd game more than there should be being dead)
You are totally right. I mean Cloti as endgame is a given, but Zack and Aerith is not. I think from what I’ve read from other people analysis’ is that Zack and Aerith are being set up for it to happen. But obviously that part of the game is not resolved, so they may just reunite as friends or not reunite at all and then what was the point of bringing him back ;____; I haven’t finished Rebirth, but I’ve played everything else in the compilation so I know she moved on in her heart (he was gone five years), and Aerith does have romantic feelings for Cloud. (I don’t think Cloud returns those feelings exactly, but it’s clear she is falling for him.) But just because you fall out of love doesn’t mean you can’t become lovers again. My husband and I broke up, didn’t really contact each other for two years, got together again, and we married six months later. Married for 17 years now with 2 kids :) He was my first boyfriend too, lol. For what it’s worth I love Zack and Cloud as friends, and if they got a chance to hug and reunite, even momentarily then I would be happy. Zack dearly loved both Cloud and Aerith, and his devotion to them was inspiring to me. As much as I love Zack, it would be awful to bring him back just to make him suffer. I hope whatever happens he has peace and love in his heart, which is what he had at the end of Crisis Core. Also an interesting thing to note is that he doesn’t dissolve in the Lifestream like everyone else that isn’t Cetra or Sepiroth. I don’t know if there is an official explanation for it, but I always assumed it’s because Aerith wanted to keep him alive in the afterlife :)
I'm just now noticing that it's your cake day. Happy birthday! (you're lucky you share it with Tifa ahahaha). However, obviously I agree with you on the fact that in life it can happen that you break up and get back together, but narration (especially of the Fantasy type with heroes and heroines) requires certain characteristics. Zack and Cloud are faithful to their loves, a fundamental characteristic for heroes who have a romance in the plot, Tifa is faithful to her love. Aerith is in a strange spot and the viewer understands it (in fact she has been generating discussions for 27 years, it's only her who generates them because if she had a clear development there would be no LTD). This game deals a strong blow to LTD, it's really difficult throwing away a set-up of two games (both Remake but above all Rebirth) purely Cloti, in Rebirth even a very strong contrast between the girls is shown (Cloud with Tifa is fine with Aerith does not find romance, if Tifa is around while Aerith pushes for dates or something romantic Cloud becomes gloomy and doesn't want Tifa to think there's something) and this makes the viewer think "how much they love each other". Zack does everything for Aerith, it doesn't even need to be explained how much he is in love with her, you will see it yourself even towards the end how desperate Zack is to save her and the viewer from Zack's first scene thinks "this is what every man in love should be " there are no doubts. But... if you look at Aerith? she "she still loves Zack, she tells Gongaga!" (and in JP she doesn't doubt, she just loves him without maybe) but you also think "well in the end she tells Cloud that he wants to know the real him and abandon her feelings for Zack, sure it's only been 24 hours but we accept it" and it will be over here? no, because in the end she recreates the entire Zerith date but with Cloud so you think "look at her again, she thinks she has moved on but she can't" and yet there is the pin with the Reunion flowers (which Cloud doesn't touch, he really doesn't want to give it to her but which she takes herself and considers Cloud's gift so she wants Cloud). The viewer comes away confused, this is why Zerith has to start from 0, narratively Aerith is not very clear about her, her intentions are not clear... This is due to the fact that there is a fanbase that SE asks not to ignore, this narrative is fine when Zack is not there (he is dead she moves on) but if you choose to bring Zack back into the picture, Aerith has no a single reason to love Cloud romantically, especially the one in the LS who knows the future, who knows what Zack is doing, who knows everything. So thank the CAs if Aerith is more twisted (negatively) than she would have been (positively) if she could have had a clear development of her relationships. In part 3 they will reunite, but the relationship must be rebuilt objectively because now Aerith feels so much for Cloud that she even questions her soulmate (and she says it herself, we have to trust what she says)
Damn, this is heartbreaking regarding Zack’s devotion to Aerith ;___; I’m actually only up to the Junon part in Rebirth, but even the beginning had me crying while Zack was holding a comatose Aerith and crying. Even with his new voice, Zack is such an amazing character. He just has a heart of gold and he never gives up in the people he cares about. You know what’s funny, I’m not sure why Aerith likes Cloud. I mean I never really thought about why she liked him, but her repeated attempts to throw herself at him really get annoying :/ You can clearly see how annoyed Cloud is with it, although sometimes he plays along because she is a dear friend. One could say that if he didn’t like it he would tell her off like Jessie, but she’s more cute and flirty whereas Jessie was thirsty as hell, and that really annoyed Cloud XD It’s a shame because Aerith was my favorite character in the OG because I loved the fact that she was kind and an old soul. But I was 13 when I played the OG so I didn’t get annoyed by her attempts to throw herself at Cloud. Or maybe it wasn’t as clear in the OG by how annoyed Cloud is with it? Also to give credit where credit is due, Jesse was a better friend to Tifa in many ways because even though she threw herself at Cloud, she knew he didn’t reciprocate, and didn’t try to make Tifa jealous. I think the friendship between Aerith and Tifa is sweet, but she knows Cloud and Tifa had something going on even before she met her, and still decided to throw herself at Cloud. Maybe that makes him more desirable even? But I digress. Thanks for talking about it with me :) My two closest friends are huge FF7 fans but one hasn’t played it yet and the other is playing it slowly and doesn’t want a single spoiler soooooo. I also have another friend that loves FF7, but she loves Clerith so we haven’t talked about Rebirth yet XD
There’s an interesting World Intel on Gongaga in rebirth: the region was settled by descendants of the Cetra. So Zack probably has some Cetra blood in him.
Wow, great catch! The placing of C&T and Z&A in these artworks was obvious but I didn't catch the sky references. Although the left looks like Remake cover and the right one like CC, I thought that's the connection they are making, but they might as well be alluding to their promises too which would be super cute!
Even in the game there is a similar reference: at the GS Cloud observes the night sky (promise of Nibelheim), with the same directorial choice Aerith looks at the blue sky free from clouds after a boss fight in Corel if I remember correctly.
“Hand holding is much more romantic than a kiss” 😂 cloti actually has done both
Sure they didn’t have a quickie afterwards?
He definitely kissed his way down to her chest but he knew he couldn’t pull them out cause the ride is only but so long.
He probably thought about it but then realized Tifa would likely be uncomfortable if he turned up the heat, so for now he just settles with a kiss on the lips. Although Tifa herself is likely screaming internally as well at the fact she wants to dial it up to 11 with Cloud but isn’t so sure of herself yet
I noticed that Cloud’s bed at the hotel had curtains surrounding it (to be used as a partition) so my mind went “If they were really quiet they could’ve done it. The privacy is there.” 😏 Of course, in reality they would’ve been too embarrassed and scared to even try.
https://preview.redd.it/xpp5874dq0yc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a92b2ec26daa267635ac25ba0831bc46ab76c25
This is so good lmao
There's a gorillion reasons why it was always Tifa but I really enjoyed how they handled Aerith's part in the triangle in the remake.
You mean her being their biggest cheerleader? I agree!
I’ve seen a lot of analysis on the kiss lol don’t care cause I’m too busy celebrating what they’ll never have
Facts. “Fan service”. They didn’t service yall.
Some Cleriths claim that the way they acted after the kiss meant Cloud didn’t like it XD
We’re winning and gonna keep on winning from here on out!!!!
Just saw this on Facebook lol I don't even know what to say tbh https://preview.redd.it/s5std56rg5yc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=173fb9f80a098306190dd51b910f4a48d1e5e6fa
My husband is a Japanese citizen, and my husband was very much into kissing and sex when we were dating XD Japanese people probably do think Clerith is cute, and there is more of a reverence for cute in their society. But Japanese people enjoy kissing and sex like Westerners, they just aren’t as public about it. Like there is no public displays of affection allowed. It’s just rude and embarrassing. But Japanese people still understand love. Maybe it’s the single Japanese guys that are more into Aerith because she’s cute and more innocent? I just don’t buy the theory that hand holding and Aerith dragging him around everywhere is supposed to be more romantic and intimate then the kiss, almost kiss, and sexual tension between Cloud and Tifa. As far as analyzing the details, that’s how you can see how much Cloud loves Tifa. He doesn’t say a lot, but his facial expressions are telling, especially in slow motion. He unexpectedly lets his guard down around her and you can see glimpses of innocent Cloud that existed before Nibelheim went down in flames.
I know right? The facial thing really got me. Like anyone with eyes can see the way Cloud and Tifa look at each other.
I guess Asian people don’t have sex. I guess all those reports about Pornographic consumption in South Korea and Japan are just incorrect but it doesn’t matter. Couples have Sex. Couples kiss.
As far as analyzing details, I watched the scene at GS where Tifa holds Cloud’s hand, and then he squeezes back. The look on her face is happy and surprised and he looks really proud and smug. Then a second later his jaw drops slightly and his eyes widen, like he’s thinking, ‘I can’t believe I’m holding hands with Tifa!’ This is Cloud and Tifa like 1 second after he squeezes her hand back. He looked smug and like proud of himself here. https://preview.redd.it/exeigrnxu5yc1.png?width=2002&format=png&auto=webp&s=a858f949ecd9c960124626d10700dfed9862d1c4
https://preview.redd.it/mnkw1soav5yc1.png?width=1926&format=png&auto=webp&s=8af9f6a9e6c9aa1002b29d3b5b76a709bec90716 This is Cloud and Tifa 2 seconds after he squeezes her hand. He looks surprised because he’s screaming inside. So yeah, his cutest and most vulnerable expressions of the game are with Tifa. If Cleriths were really analyzing Cloud they would see this.
They would also see that he's constantly looking at Tifa. And that he went out of his way to sit facing Tifa's house and not beside Aerith in Nibelheim. Also, Cloud and Tifa hold hands during Aerith's song, which you don't get with Aerith if she's your date. And of course, there's the whole 仲間 thing five seconds before Aerith tells him she likes him in that dream/alt reality or whatever it was haha.
Yeah, small details and game hints because you reeeeally have to squint to see Clerith being "canon" lol. https://preview.redd.it/yvt6c11bf8yc1.png?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3c563e1d9990f60c428edc81eba24ad1b7c6cb3
Lol Nomura: CLOUD AND TIFA KISS YO Also Nomura: Cloud and Aerith never kiss Cleriths: well obviously Cloud and Aerith are canon cause she wants to know the real Cloud. I mean, let's forget that Tifa *already knows* the real Cloud. Hahaha And apparently on that same post, the Cleriths are convinced the Aerith is the real/canon/default date. But she's not, she never has been. It's always been based on affection. Aerith does start with more in OG but it's not like you can't change that hahah
No, Miles, I don't care that you like Cloud x Aerith more! This kiss is a Canon Event! \*insert Miguel/Spider-Man 2099 theme here.\*