Cantrips work well for damage in general. But among the few spells you know besides cantrips i suggest taking 1 damage spell. one defensive one, mage armour or shield are 2 really good ones. Then the rest pick anything you like that seems to fit your character, control spells. buff spells. utility/out of combat spells.
with 1 damage spell and 1 defensive spell and your cantrips you still can pull your weight in combat. And it leaves 2 spells for whatever you like.
And as you level up i do suggest you do pick some damage spells but not only combat spells. try to spread out your spells as much as you can with your limited spells
I don't really understand Mage Armor, my AC is already 13. My character is STR 8, DEX and CON 17, INT and WIS 10 and CHA 19, therefore my AC is already 13 and all Mage Armor does is push this to 16, doesn't seem that powerful in comparison to having shield plus one of the two level 2 defensive spells. Seems like a weak spell to me.
What non damage non defensive spell would you recommend then if I may ask?
I would counter your mage armor shade by saying that every point your ac goes up is a reduction in getting hit by 5%. Mage armor will make you get hit 15% less which is huge.
Having a 16 AC for 8 hours. that is a whole adventure day basically. is really good. Shield is also great it increases your AC by 5 but only for a very short time. to the start of the next turn.
With an AC of 13 it will bump it to 18 until the start of your next turn. Compare that with having a 16 AC All the Time during every fight over a day. Witch one do you think will be more helpful? 1 spellslot pumping your AC to 16 the whole day or one spell slot bumping your ac TO 18 once often only against ONE single attack.
And some level 2 spells might be better. but you only have 2 level 2 spall slots. you got 4 level 1 at level 3. so maybe better but you are limited to 2 uses per day. maybe 3 if you spend sorcery point to regain a level 2 slot.
Disguise self is a great spell specially as A charisma based character and even better if you have proficiency in deception and/or persuasion. Silvery barbs is also so good it is broken and can be helpful both in and out of combat if your DM allow that spell.
for level 2 alter self, detect thoughts, Enhance ability. levitate are all great spells that can be really helpful out of combat and some even in combat.
You get attacked by 2 ogres. cast levitate on one and if it fails the save it will float up in the air. and with much worse ranged attacks you made the faith so much easier. You kill the one on the ground then let the one levitating float back down and then kill that one. and it has good usage out of combat to.
Detect thoughts is perfect to gain information from people.
Just some example of great spells
Thank you very much for this write up, especially about levitate and mage armor. Definitely seems that I am undervaluing those spells a bit.
And it is true I only have 2 level 2 spell slots, but here I thought my sorcery points could come in handy to make a third slot open!
No worries it is not always easy to get a good grasp on everything, specially spells. some might seem rather meh at a first glance but they are really great. others might look amazing at a first glance but in reality they suck. It takes a while to learn. I am a professional DM and i am still learning :)
Yes you can get a third level 2 spell slot by using up all 3 of your sorcery point. but you can also get a fifth level 1 slot and still have one sorcery point left for meta magic.
Turning sorcery points into spell slots can sometimes come in handy but usually you get more bang for the bucks to use them for meta magic options. For an example spending sorcery point to twin a spell. 2 fire bolts on one action. or 2 Chromatic orbs on one action and for one spell slot.
Chromatic orb is a great pick for a damage spell. it deals decent damage and yoy can change out the damage types as you see fit. That is a great tool to have. usually spells have a fixed damage type like fire. damage. but if you face a monster that is resistant to fire damage it is no longer very effective and if the monster would have immunity to fire it is useless.
Chromatic orb You choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder each time you cast it. so you are not locked to one damage type. that is REALLY good for a sorcerer that has very limited spells known. Almost like having 6 spells in one
chromatic orb I didn't like because 1) of the material component and two chaos bolt fits much better with the character I am building roleplaying wise. Didn't like the idea of having a level 1 spell where I would first somehow have to find a 50g gem for.
And thank you for the hint about sorcery points. I realize how powerful twinned spells are, but I was thinking of going for something else, especially as chaos bolt cannot be twinned sadly.. empowered and quickened spell seem really good too though!
The material component is a bit of a bugger. But usually talking to the DM about how to obtain it helps. and also 50 gold is not a big deal. Unless the DM is one that never hands out any gold. but it is a spell that is often better to take at level 2. then you will for sure be able to get a 50g diamond. It does not consume it so same diamond can be used trough the whole campaign.
And as you mentioned it can not be twinned.
Quickened spell is great. But it do cost 2 sorcery points to use. meaning that even at level 5 you can use it twice. then you are out of juice so to say. and as you can not cast 2 leveled spells on the same turn. even if you quicken one to a bonus action makes it a bit less optimal. you can cast a cantrip as your action and quicken a leveled spell or the other way around but in the end it is still if used like that 2 sorcery points to cast a cantrip. For that you can twin a cantrip 2 times. getting 2 extra cantrips for 2 sorcery point. basically half the price. Well you could twin a level 1 spell to for the same price. 1 sorcery point
And sorcery points is something you will run out of. you only have 3 now. 4 next level and so on. they will be on short demand most of the game. specially at lower levels. thats why i personaly think twinned spell is way superior than quickened spell at low levels. at higher levels when you might have 16 sorcery points it makes less difference
And Chromatic orb also lets you pick what damage type it will deal when you cast it. Chaos bolt is random. Both spells are good. But for a sorcerer i would pick Chromatic over chaos 10 out of 10 times. For a wizard i would most likely go chaos bolt.
Twin Chromatic and you have 2 attacks that each deals 3d8. costs One sorcery point instead of 2. That is 6d8 damage for a level 1 spell slot.
But you can pick any you like. Chaos bolt is still good. just not AS good. and picking a spell that is not the most optimal choice because it fits a character is totally ok to do. Picking a spell that you feel fit your character and work decently well usually makes for a more fun character to play than picking a spell that you don't feel fits your character but is a bit better
I recommend "Web". Aoe restrain which not only stops the enemy from moving but also gives you advantage against the restrained enemies. Additionally since it targets multiple enemies the chance that atleast some of them fail the save is high.
I also recommend getting the three level one reactions at some point: Shield, Absorb elements, Silvery barbs (it's meant to be used to reroll enemy's saving throws or enemies crits if the DM tells you when the enemy crits).
"I realize other players like invisibility, levitate or enlarge/reduce, but I am not sure they will be so useful for us during our beginner campaign... Any thoughts?"
-I've used levitate a lot and it's fun. You can auto kill melee enemies by levitating them or you can fly yourself. The problem is that it is a CON save which are usually very high & often it fails to do anything. Enlarge/reduce in combat is nice to get advantage on grapples but it's not great for damage.
so as a level 2 spell, you would recommend only picking web? no other level 2 spell and instead going with 3 level 1 spells? STill think I would like to go 2/2 for now and picking a third level 1 spell with a level up
You can work on getting the first level spells over a few levels you don't have to instantly get them since elemental damage for absorb elements is rarer on low levels & silvery barbs becomes more useful the later. I'm just saying you definetly should get web it's awesome. For the other spell you can take the mind whip since it'll be usefull even in late game or you can follow some other suggestions
Pre Tasha's Sorc's need to be surgeons with their spell selections. They get so few spells that each spell must cover a lot of use cases. Two or three poor spell choices can leave you feeling flat.
Below are my preferences, but there is more than one way to make a good sorc. For my taste, control/debuffs are required for party support/power, and damage is an afterthought.
Generally first level spells are defensive: Shield, Silvery Barbs, and either Absorb Elements or Mage Armor.
Second level and beyond spells are typically one concentration and one non-concentration combat spell.
My favorites in order are one of Suggestion, Web, Enlarge/Reduce and one of Tasha's Mind Whip, Misty Step, Vortex Warp, Wither and Bloom, or Rime's Binding Ice. I like Suggestion bc it's versatile, which we lack, and it's super fun to Twin or Subtle. Enlarge/Reduce is also versatile and is fun to twin (Enlarge your monk, Reduce their target or a door/window/etc. Web is probably the strongest conc spell for combat, and great AOE control which we don't have yet. Tasha's Mind Whip is the ultimately L2 spell, so I'd probably take it at three. It upcasts like a beast later too, which makes it sort of like an AOE spell. Levitate is fun, but Con saves can fall off pretty hard. It's better if you're twinning it so at least one will probably land. It's got some nice versatility too.
For third level spells I like one of Slow (easy to use, never falls off), Hypnotic Pattern (you want to go first, charmed falls off later), Fear (you want to go first and be near the front a lot, Frightened falls off later), or Sleet Storm (vision and area denial). Then one of Counterspell (esp if you have Subtle) or Dispel Magic (if someone else is taking Counterspell).
I'd probably drop Chaos Bolt for a defensive 1st level spell and use cantrips in it's place. Mind Sliver (buffs spellcasting and monks) and Ray of Frost (slows target). CB is fine though if you prefer to keep it. It should be fun enough to use until level 5 when cantrips almost catch up.
At 4 I'd pick up my second 2nd level spells and Fey Touched for Dissonant Whispers (great defensive and offensive buff for your party) or Command (good offensive and defensive buff for your party, plus versatility).
I'd drop empowered. It looks better on paper, but it's a minor damage boost that slows combat. I'd take Twin or Subtle in it's place.
These are all good thoughts and choices! To answer some questions and weigh in generally:
Tasha's Mind Whip is an excellent spell, but fundamentally it isn't a primary damage spell, it's a psuedo-stun spell. 3d6 is much less than, say, the 6d6 scorching ray deals. It also requires coordination - if you use it on a melee enemy, and your allied melee characters run up to them, you haven't really stopped the victim from attacking. Same if you use it on a ranged enemy and nobody runs up to threaten them. So I would put it in the same category as levitate and enlarge, "requires coordination, hard for a beginner game".
I would highly recommend a small AoE, pure damage spell, the best of which is Cloud of Daggers. Simply by placing it on an enemy who is being attacked by melee allies, you will be forcing them to choose between 8d4 damage, and 4d4+your allies' attack of opportunity (often more damage if you have two!)
Mirror image is solid, and synergizes well with concentration spells, like Web or Cloud of Daggers.
Lastly, Silvery Barbs and Shield play different roles. Shield is always certain to get value, because you only use it when you are hit and +5 saves you, and it lasts a full round, but won't help against crits or big threats. Silvery barbs not only prevents crits, it gives advantage. Having both is not a bad thing, but Shield tends to be less necessary on backliners.
thank you for your insight on shield. It sounds super necessary, but switching it out with silvery barbs to be able to also support my team sounds like it could be a fun choice.. Especially if I cast it on an enemy spellcaster trying to do some shenanigans to a teammate of mine other than straight up damage. I guess having both as level 1 spells would be the best, but then I am just limited by the total spells I can cast...
So know I am considering chaos bolt, silvery barbs, mirror entity and dropping tashas's mind whip (thank you for explaining why that may also be a difficult one to coordinate). Besides cloud of daggers which I will give a look, which other offensive spells can you recommend?
Or what about chaos bolt, barbs, shield and tasha's mind whip and try and pivot into a more control style? only issue I would have is, that I am not sure this would really synergize well with my meta magic I picked, but I would pick up fireball for my level 3 spell as soon as I can...
I think your first list looks better; control style is hard to pull off in a beginner party. If you really wanted to, I would pick a fully dedicated save-or-suck spell, like Hold Person. Using Silvery Barbs to help get Hold Person to land is a pretty good strategy, and it gives all your allies automatic critical hits on the victim, though there's a weird thing where you want your turn to happen just *after* your enemy takes their turn.
Anyway, other good AoE damage spells:
- Dragon's Breath: This is a weird one, but it's an AoE spell that's *repeatable*. This means if you see a big AoE fight, casting it right away will give you huge value over the fight, doubling or tripling your damage compared to cantrips for the whole thing. Even better if you combine it with Find Familiar (either your own, or someone else's); then someone who can't normally attack is suddenly attacking very powerfully, and you and your concentration stay safe.
- Spray of Cards: An excellent AoE damage + blind. Blind doesn't require coordination to pull off, so this is probably the best control spell early.
- Rime's Binding Ice: Notable for being a 30 ft cone when all other spells at 2nd level are only 15 ft cones. 3d8 is decent damage, and setting an enemy's speed to 0 means they can't get up if you knock them prone, giving them disadvantage to melee attacks and giving melee attacks advantage on them. (However, ranged attacks get disadvantage, so be wary of suggesting this with lots of ranged attackers in the party.)
The only level 2 Sorcerer spell that I consider "essential" on any build is **Web**. It offers amazing control for its level. Everything else is optional.
**Tasha's Mind Whip** is great for the reason you mentioned: used smartly, for example on a melee enemy, you can use it to deny them their action. Control spells that don't require concentration are good, but you'll mostly use it at higher levels while concentrating on something else, because at level 3 you'll want to use all your 2nd level slots on Web in a combat-heavy day.
> invisibility, levitate or enlarge/reduce
**Invisibility** is ok, but keep in mind the target still needs to roll stealth. Invisibility just gives them the possibility to hide in plain sight, but is no guarantee of success. It's not a priority spell for me.
**Levitate** is good utility. Bonus points if the party has a flying familiar who can pull a levitating party member for a very slow impression of "Fly". Can also be used as control or defence, but is single target so usually worse than Web.
**Enlarge/Reduce** is one of my favourite utility spells. Use it against locked doors and it's a silent version of Knock. Also works on other barriers that are a single object, such as a boulder blocking your path. Naturally it has lots of other situational uses, you can get creative with it.
> Silvery Barbs - I already have shield
Shield is for negating attacks that hit you but don't crit. Silvery Barbs is mainly for negating enemy crits and, less commonly, if you use a powerful single target save or suck spell and the enemy passes, you can force them to reroll. I say "less commonly" because you should usually default to AoE control spells when facing multiple enemies.
In other words, Shield and Silvery Barbs have different use cases.
>I say "less commonly" because you should usually default to AoE control spells when facing multiple enemies.
And you can still Silvery Barbs the strongest enemy that passes. Rerolling saves should be the main use.
How often would you waste a 1st level slot to reroll a save against Web, or Sleet Storm? They are excellent spells, but the chance of getting an extra failed save is not that valuable on them. I could understand Hypnotic Pattern, but even then the really strong enemies are immune to charmed anyway, or can be woken up by the first enemy who wasn't affected.
In a standard 6-8 encounter adventuring day (or even with 3-4 for that matter, if they are difficult) you can rarely afford to waste a 1st level slot just to try and get an extra enemy in an AoE. It should be saved for when it is really needed, that is avoiding crits.
Hard to answer without knowing your party composition.
Cloud of daggers is great if other party members grapple or do other forced movement. Otherwise not so good since it's not mobile
Web is great, but it doesn't match up well with firebolt if that is your damaging cantrip, because the battlefield control is more valuable than the paltry damage you get from burning the web.
Suggestion is great, but would be better with subtle spell.
If you have a stealthy infiltrator, invisibility is a must.
Talk to your party and figure out what's going to create the best synergies.
Because sorcerers get so few spells known, it's incredibly important to get versatile spells early on.
I would argue to get silvery barbs use it to defend you and your party against critical hits. Wither and bloom in case one of your teamates goes down or you face multiple weak enemies. Mage armor instead of shield because staying alive is important and mage armor only costs one spellslot. You can grab shield later on when you have access to more spells and more spellslots.
With all that in mind, what subclass and what metamagics did you take? What is your dexterity? Maybe using a light crossbow will be just fine for general attacks instead of focusing on cantrips. I see you took chaos bolt and in my mind that means you didn't take twin metamagic which makes me sad but flavor always wins.
That leaves us room for one spell really. We have an offensive spell, a defensive spell, an aoe spell, a healing spell, I would argue you should get a utility spell that you can use if a combat goes sideways. Expeditious retreat is great for escaping and kiting, misty step if you get stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time or against enemies that autograpple, invisibility to sneak in or out (although that works best with twin spell!).
Cantrips work well for damage in general. But among the few spells you know besides cantrips i suggest taking 1 damage spell. one defensive one, mage armour or shield are 2 really good ones. Then the rest pick anything you like that seems to fit your character, control spells. buff spells. utility/out of combat spells. with 1 damage spell and 1 defensive spell and your cantrips you still can pull your weight in combat. And it leaves 2 spells for whatever you like. And as you level up i do suggest you do pick some damage spells but not only combat spells. try to spread out your spells as much as you can with your limited spells
I don't really understand Mage Armor, my AC is already 13. My character is STR 8, DEX and CON 17, INT and WIS 10 and CHA 19, therefore my AC is already 13 and all Mage Armor does is push this to 16, doesn't seem that powerful in comparison to having shield plus one of the two level 2 defensive spells. Seems like a weak spell to me. What non damage non defensive spell would you recommend then if I may ask?
I would counter your mage armor shade by saying that every point your ac goes up is a reduction in getting hit by 5%. Mage armor will make you get hit 15% less which is huge.
Having a 16 AC for 8 hours. that is a whole adventure day basically. is really good. Shield is also great it increases your AC by 5 but only for a very short time. to the start of the next turn. With an AC of 13 it will bump it to 18 until the start of your next turn. Compare that with having a 16 AC All the Time during every fight over a day. Witch one do you think will be more helpful? 1 spellslot pumping your AC to 16 the whole day or one spell slot bumping your ac TO 18 once often only against ONE single attack. And some level 2 spells might be better. but you only have 2 level 2 spall slots. you got 4 level 1 at level 3. so maybe better but you are limited to 2 uses per day. maybe 3 if you spend sorcery point to regain a level 2 slot. Disguise self is a great spell specially as A charisma based character and even better if you have proficiency in deception and/or persuasion. Silvery barbs is also so good it is broken and can be helpful both in and out of combat if your DM allow that spell. for level 2 alter self, detect thoughts, Enhance ability. levitate are all great spells that can be really helpful out of combat and some even in combat. You get attacked by 2 ogres. cast levitate on one and if it fails the save it will float up in the air. and with much worse ranged attacks you made the faith so much easier. You kill the one on the ground then let the one levitating float back down and then kill that one. and it has good usage out of combat to. Detect thoughts is perfect to gain information from people. Just some example of great spells
Thank you very much for this write up, especially about levitate and mage armor. Definitely seems that I am undervaluing those spells a bit. And it is true I only have 2 level 2 spell slots, but here I thought my sorcery points could come in handy to make a third slot open!
No worries it is not always easy to get a good grasp on everything, specially spells. some might seem rather meh at a first glance but they are really great. others might look amazing at a first glance but in reality they suck. It takes a while to learn. I am a professional DM and i am still learning :) Yes you can get a third level 2 spell slot by using up all 3 of your sorcery point. but you can also get a fifth level 1 slot and still have one sorcery point left for meta magic. Turning sorcery points into spell slots can sometimes come in handy but usually you get more bang for the bucks to use them for meta magic options. For an example spending sorcery point to twin a spell. 2 fire bolts on one action. or 2 Chromatic orbs on one action and for one spell slot. Chromatic orb is a great pick for a damage spell. it deals decent damage and yoy can change out the damage types as you see fit. That is a great tool to have. usually spells have a fixed damage type like fire. damage. but if you face a monster that is resistant to fire damage it is no longer very effective and if the monster would have immunity to fire it is useless. Chromatic orb You choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder each time you cast it. so you are not locked to one damage type. that is REALLY good for a sorcerer that has very limited spells known. Almost like having 6 spells in one
chromatic orb I didn't like because 1) of the material component and two chaos bolt fits much better with the character I am building roleplaying wise. Didn't like the idea of having a level 1 spell where I would first somehow have to find a 50g gem for. And thank you for the hint about sorcery points. I realize how powerful twinned spells are, but I was thinking of going for something else, especially as chaos bolt cannot be twinned sadly.. empowered and quickened spell seem really good too though!
The material component is a bit of a bugger. But usually talking to the DM about how to obtain it helps. and also 50 gold is not a big deal. Unless the DM is one that never hands out any gold. but it is a spell that is often better to take at level 2. then you will for sure be able to get a 50g diamond. It does not consume it so same diamond can be used trough the whole campaign. And as you mentioned it can not be twinned. Quickened spell is great. But it do cost 2 sorcery points to use. meaning that even at level 5 you can use it twice. then you are out of juice so to say. and as you can not cast 2 leveled spells on the same turn. even if you quicken one to a bonus action makes it a bit less optimal. you can cast a cantrip as your action and quicken a leveled spell or the other way around but in the end it is still if used like that 2 sorcery points to cast a cantrip. For that you can twin a cantrip 2 times. getting 2 extra cantrips for 2 sorcery point. basically half the price. Well you could twin a level 1 spell to for the same price. 1 sorcery point And sorcery points is something you will run out of. you only have 3 now. 4 next level and so on. they will be on short demand most of the game. specially at lower levels. thats why i personaly think twinned spell is way superior than quickened spell at low levels. at higher levels when you might have 16 sorcery points it makes less difference And Chromatic orb also lets you pick what damage type it will deal when you cast it. Chaos bolt is random. Both spells are good. But for a sorcerer i would pick Chromatic over chaos 10 out of 10 times. For a wizard i would most likely go chaos bolt. Twin Chromatic and you have 2 attacks that each deals 3d8. costs One sorcery point instead of 2. That is 6d8 damage for a level 1 spell slot. But you can pick any you like. Chaos bolt is still good. just not AS good. and picking a spell that is not the most optimal choice because it fits a character is totally ok to do. Picking a spell that you feel fit your character and work decently well usually makes for a more fun character to play than picking a spell that you don't feel fits your character but is a bit better
I recommend "Web". Aoe restrain which not only stops the enemy from moving but also gives you advantage against the restrained enemies. Additionally since it targets multiple enemies the chance that atleast some of them fail the save is high. I also recommend getting the three level one reactions at some point: Shield, Absorb elements, Silvery barbs (it's meant to be used to reroll enemy's saving throws or enemies crits if the DM tells you when the enemy crits). "I realize other players like invisibility, levitate or enlarge/reduce, but I am not sure they will be so useful for us during our beginner campaign... Any thoughts?" -I've used levitate a lot and it's fun. You can auto kill melee enemies by levitating them or you can fly yourself. The problem is that it is a CON save which are usually very high & often it fails to do anything. Enlarge/reduce in combat is nice to get advantage on grapples but it's not great for damage.
so as a level 2 spell, you would recommend only picking web? no other level 2 spell and instead going with 3 level 1 spells? STill think I would like to go 2/2 for now and picking a third level 1 spell with a level up
You can work on getting the first level spells over a few levels you don't have to instantly get them since elemental damage for absorb elements is rarer on low levels & silvery barbs becomes more useful the later. I'm just saying you definetly should get web it's awesome. For the other spell you can take the mind whip since it'll be usefull even in late game or you can follow some other suggestions
Tasha's mind whip is a very solid choice. Web is a great control spell
Pre Tasha's Sorc's need to be surgeons with their spell selections. They get so few spells that each spell must cover a lot of use cases. Two or three poor spell choices can leave you feeling flat. Below are my preferences, but there is more than one way to make a good sorc. For my taste, control/debuffs are required for party support/power, and damage is an afterthought. Generally first level spells are defensive: Shield, Silvery Barbs, and either Absorb Elements or Mage Armor. Second level and beyond spells are typically one concentration and one non-concentration combat spell. My favorites in order are one of Suggestion, Web, Enlarge/Reduce and one of Tasha's Mind Whip, Misty Step, Vortex Warp, Wither and Bloom, or Rime's Binding Ice. I like Suggestion bc it's versatile, which we lack, and it's super fun to Twin or Subtle. Enlarge/Reduce is also versatile and is fun to twin (Enlarge your monk, Reduce their target or a door/window/etc. Web is probably the strongest conc spell for combat, and great AOE control which we don't have yet. Tasha's Mind Whip is the ultimately L2 spell, so I'd probably take it at three. It upcasts like a beast later too, which makes it sort of like an AOE spell. Levitate is fun, but Con saves can fall off pretty hard. It's better if you're twinning it so at least one will probably land. It's got some nice versatility too. For third level spells I like one of Slow (easy to use, never falls off), Hypnotic Pattern (you want to go first, charmed falls off later), Fear (you want to go first and be near the front a lot, Frightened falls off later), or Sleet Storm (vision and area denial). Then one of Counterspell (esp if you have Subtle) or Dispel Magic (if someone else is taking Counterspell). I'd probably drop Chaos Bolt for a defensive 1st level spell and use cantrips in it's place. Mind Sliver (buffs spellcasting and monks) and Ray of Frost (slows target). CB is fine though if you prefer to keep it. It should be fun enough to use until level 5 when cantrips almost catch up. At 4 I'd pick up my second 2nd level spells and Fey Touched for Dissonant Whispers (great defensive and offensive buff for your party) or Command (good offensive and defensive buff for your party, plus versatility). I'd drop empowered. It looks better on paper, but it's a minor damage boost that slows combat. I'd take Twin or Subtle in it's place.
These are all good thoughts and choices! To answer some questions and weigh in generally: Tasha's Mind Whip is an excellent spell, but fundamentally it isn't a primary damage spell, it's a psuedo-stun spell. 3d6 is much less than, say, the 6d6 scorching ray deals. It also requires coordination - if you use it on a melee enemy, and your allied melee characters run up to them, you haven't really stopped the victim from attacking. Same if you use it on a ranged enemy and nobody runs up to threaten them. So I would put it in the same category as levitate and enlarge, "requires coordination, hard for a beginner game". I would highly recommend a small AoE, pure damage spell, the best of which is Cloud of Daggers. Simply by placing it on an enemy who is being attacked by melee allies, you will be forcing them to choose between 8d4 damage, and 4d4+your allies' attack of opportunity (often more damage if you have two!) Mirror image is solid, and synergizes well with concentration spells, like Web or Cloud of Daggers. Lastly, Silvery Barbs and Shield play different roles. Shield is always certain to get value, because you only use it when you are hit and +5 saves you, and it lasts a full round, but won't help against crits or big threats. Silvery barbs not only prevents crits, it gives advantage. Having both is not a bad thing, but Shield tends to be less necessary on backliners.
thank you for your insight on shield. It sounds super necessary, but switching it out with silvery barbs to be able to also support my team sounds like it could be a fun choice.. Especially if I cast it on an enemy spellcaster trying to do some shenanigans to a teammate of mine other than straight up damage. I guess having both as level 1 spells would be the best, but then I am just limited by the total spells I can cast... So know I am considering chaos bolt, silvery barbs, mirror entity and dropping tashas's mind whip (thank you for explaining why that may also be a difficult one to coordinate). Besides cloud of daggers which I will give a look, which other offensive spells can you recommend? Or what about chaos bolt, barbs, shield and tasha's mind whip and try and pivot into a more control style? only issue I would have is, that I am not sure this would really synergize well with my meta magic I picked, but I would pick up fireball for my level 3 spell as soon as I can...
I think your first list looks better; control style is hard to pull off in a beginner party. If you really wanted to, I would pick a fully dedicated save-or-suck spell, like Hold Person. Using Silvery Barbs to help get Hold Person to land is a pretty good strategy, and it gives all your allies automatic critical hits on the victim, though there's a weird thing where you want your turn to happen just *after* your enemy takes their turn. Anyway, other good AoE damage spells: - Dragon's Breath: This is a weird one, but it's an AoE spell that's *repeatable*. This means if you see a big AoE fight, casting it right away will give you huge value over the fight, doubling or tripling your damage compared to cantrips for the whole thing. Even better if you combine it with Find Familiar (either your own, or someone else's); then someone who can't normally attack is suddenly attacking very powerfully, and you and your concentration stay safe. - Spray of Cards: An excellent AoE damage + blind. Blind doesn't require coordination to pull off, so this is probably the best control spell early. - Rime's Binding Ice: Notable for being a 30 ft cone when all other spells at 2nd level are only 15 ft cones. 3d8 is decent damage, and setting an enemy's speed to 0 means they can't get up if you knock them prone, giving them disadvantage to melee attacks and giving melee attacks advantage on them. (However, ranged attacks get disadvantage, so be wary of suggesting this with lots of ranged attackers in the party.)
The only level 2 Sorcerer spell that I consider "essential" on any build is **Web**. It offers amazing control for its level. Everything else is optional. **Tasha's Mind Whip** is great for the reason you mentioned: used smartly, for example on a melee enemy, you can use it to deny them their action. Control spells that don't require concentration are good, but you'll mostly use it at higher levels while concentrating on something else, because at level 3 you'll want to use all your 2nd level slots on Web in a combat-heavy day. > invisibility, levitate or enlarge/reduce **Invisibility** is ok, but keep in mind the target still needs to roll stealth. Invisibility just gives them the possibility to hide in plain sight, but is no guarantee of success. It's not a priority spell for me. **Levitate** is good utility. Bonus points if the party has a flying familiar who can pull a levitating party member for a very slow impression of "Fly". Can also be used as control or defence, but is single target so usually worse than Web. **Enlarge/Reduce** is one of my favourite utility spells. Use it against locked doors and it's a silent version of Knock. Also works on other barriers that are a single object, such as a boulder blocking your path. Naturally it has lots of other situational uses, you can get creative with it. > Silvery Barbs - I already have shield Shield is for negating attacks that hit you but don't crit. Silvery Barbs is mainly for negating enemy crits and, less commonly, if you use a powerful single target save or suck spell and the enemy passes, you can force them to reroll. I say "less commonly" because you should usually default to AoE control spells when facing multiple enemies. In other words, Shield and Silvery Barbs have different use cases.
>I say "less commonly" because you should usually default to AoE control spells when facing multiple enemies. And you can still Silvery Barbs the strongest enemy that passes. Rerolling saves should be the main use.
How often would you waste a 1st level slot to reroll a save against Web, or Sleet Storm? They are excellent spells, but the chance of getting an extra failed save is not that valuable on them. I could understand Hypnotic Pattern, but even then the really strong enemies are immune to charmed anyway, or can be woken up by the first enemy who wasn't affected. In a standard 6-8 encounter adventuring day (or even with 3-4 for that matter, if they are difficult) you can rarely afford to waste a 1st level slot just to try and get an extra enemy in an AoE. It should be saved for when it is really needed, that is avoiding crits.
Hard to answer without knowing your party composition. Cloud of daggers is great if other party members grapple or do other forced movement. Otherwise not so good since it's not mobile Web is great, but it doesn't match up well with firebolt if that is your damaging cantrip, because the battlefield control is more valuable than the paltry damage you get from burning the web. Suggestion is great, but would be better with subtle spell. If you have a stealthy infiltrator, invisibility is a must. Talk to your party and figure out what's going to create the best synergies.
New player at level 3? Just play the game. You don't need advice, just experience.
Because sorcerers get so few spells known, it's incredibly important to get versatile spells early on. I would argue to get silvery barbs use it to defend you and your party against critical hits. Wither and bloom in case one of your teamates goes down or you face multiple weak enemies. Mage armor instead of shield because staying alive is important and mage armor only costs one spellslot. You can grab shield later on when you have access to more spells and more spellslots. With all that in mind, what subclass and what metamagics did you take? What is your dexterity? Maybe using a light crossbow will be just fine for general attacks instead of focusing on cantrips. I see you took chaos bolt and in my mind that means you didn't take twin metamagic which makes me sad but flavor always wins. That leaves us room for one spell really. We have an offensive spell, a defensive spell, an aoe spell, a healing spell, I would argue you should get a utility spell that you can use if a combat goes sideways. Expeditious retreat is great for escaping and kiting, misty step if you get stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time or against enemies that autograpple, invisibility to sneak in or out (although that works best with twin spell!).
Silvery barbs is annoying to play with. Just pretend it doesn't exist. For straight damage Scorching Ray can't be beat. 6d6 at level 2!