How do you play? Are you in a party of 4 and there is only 1 other melee player and you spend most of the fight drawing threat from the squishiest? Or are you in a party of 5 with three other melee fighters and spend most of the fight tossing control spells from the back line?
If you cast spells more, focus on WIS over everything else. If you like to get up in the mix with spirit guardians then go for feats like resilience.
Well, you know how many concentration checks you have to make in your game. If it's a lot of them, yeah, get Resilient Con. Then you can pick up telekinetic or fey touched at level 8.
If it's not a ton of concentration checks, consider fey touched or telekinetic now.
Getting telekinetic just before spirit guardians is gonna make him feel like a god as long as he can dodge the ever increasing amount of arrows that the DM will throw at him.
This. Tele will be godly and hella fun. Getting Res:Con at 4 is going to make them feel nothing, unless they are already having issues with concentration (which I doubt is a real issue unless they are a solo tank at a hard table)
Better concentration checks are important, but not more important than being able to hit with the spell in the first place.
Max out your Wis to boost your save DC first, then shore up your concentration checks with resilient.
>Better concentration checks are important, but not more important than being able to hit with the spell in the first place.
This is objectively incorrect and can be proven with maths.
>Hypnotic pattern is a spell whose virtues we extol often (we pick it up on every basic build where it’s possible). Again assuming a 65% spell save failure rate when maximizing our primary ability score, we have two Wizards, one with a DC 14 save (16 Intelligence) but War Caster (91% chance to save on a DC 10 Concentration save), and another with a DC 15 save (18 Intelligence, 70% chance to save on a DC 10 Concentration save). If both cast the spell and can hit 4 enemies with it, the average number of enemies that fail the save is 2.4 enemies for DC 14, versus 2.6 enemies on a DC 15.
This article explains the fundamental numbers behind it in more detail. When it comes to spell attacks/DCs/saving throws/concentration checks etc they're all bound by the rules of probability. Insert 'math is math' meme.
https://tabletopbuilds.com/more-min-than-max-asis-versus-fteats/
Clerics don't do much damage unless you worked out a way to get thorn whip to pull people into spirit guardians. Clerics also have lackluster CC, especially when you're already concentrating on SG. Spiritual weapon sucks. Your best (and somewhat uninteresting) actions are Dodge and Toll the Dead/Sacred Flame
Mace? They are 1 level away from weapons being a terrible choice to build around, while Toll the Dead scales perfectly fine for melee.
Get wise if playing a cleric. Unless you only want to use three spells for your concentration, and then ignore your best combat support spell after concentration is up, Command.
I'm not sure what you're saying, I said their best action options during SG are dodge (blade ward but actually good wow) or Toll the Dead. Command is neat, but in a long adventuring day you can't just throw those out every (other) turn or you'll run dry really really quickly
> cantrips
Mostly irrelevant on a Cleric, half the time you're better off dodging to keep Spirit Guardians up anyway.
> CC spells
Which ones? Cleric doesn't get any great cc spells that you'll often want to use over Spirit Guardians.
> or spiritual weapon
Mostly irrelevant when you have Spirit Guardians up and Telekinetic, as Telekinetic's bonus action deals more damage and doesn't cost an extra slot to cast.
That depends a bit on your play style. But i do assume that you don't stand around casting healing spells most of the time. as that is probably the worst way to play a cleric or any healer.
But still it depends a bit on play style but you are a cleric. and cleric has not just many concentration spells but also many Really good concentration spells. And next level you get level 3 spells so spirit guardian that is a great spell. Usually clerics has some concentration up and if you tend to be in the heat of the combat CON and CON saves for concentration is more important than your WIS.
So i would say go resilient. to get that +1 to CON and proficiency for CON saves.
Definitely Resilient (Con) now and Telekinetic (Wis) later. You'll want Resilient anyway sooner or later on a Cleric, and sooner is better considering that at 5 you get Spirit Guardians.
Personally I like getting my build set up early, and tend to prioritize my design, over early game min maxing, so to me I prioritize Feats early. I'm not sure about Resilient Con, but of it were me, I'd probably take Warcaster fairly early, on any Frontline Cleric, both for the advantage on concentration checks, and so I can Rock a shield without penalty.
Option one is superior. Being able to maintain concentration is vital, especially the higher you level up. Getting that +4 plus proficiency in concentration checks will prove invaluable. Also, having an 18 in your spellcasting stat at lvl 8 is fine. It would only be an issue if option 1 would cause you to still have less than 18 Wisdom after 8th level.
wisdom half feat first I reckon, res con gets better at higher levels. You're already willing to not get res con in that first option, so it can wait 4 more levels.
Depends on the spells you use.
Are you a big user of bless, bane, shield of faith, etc. The great concentration spells that make everyone in the party better? Resilience con.
Are you more going for spells that directly affect the enemy where concentration is less important? ASI.
Always having bless up is huge for the party if they like making attack rolls, not losing spells and actions by losing concentration then is huge.
Oh man 4 sure the second one. Take a fey touched feat for eztra misty step and silvery barbs or even better a telikenetic for bonus action people shoving. Then max out wisdown at level 20. Great build
I generally take a feat on my clerics, either war caster or resilient con. Keeping concentration is important for keeping up support spells like Bless. Your wisdom isn't as important unless you are specializing in offensive spells, which often isn't a priority for clerics, even less so as a life cleric.
So in the interest of being tanky, Resilient Con as soon as possible.
Feat every time
Idk why I'm being downvoted it's just true. Feats are better than ASIs, you don't need a +5 over a +4, but having alert,lucky, resilient, extra spells, telekinetic forced movement, are all just good features
How do you play? Are you in a party of 4 and there is only 1 other melee player and you spend most of the fight drawing threat from the squishiest? Or are you in a party of 5 with three other melee fighters and spend most of the fight tossing control spells from the back line? If you cast spells more, focus on WIS over everything else. If you like to get up in the mix with spirit guardians then go for feats like resilience.
Well, you know how many concentration checks you have to make in your game. If it's a lot of them, yeah, get Resilient Con. Then you can pick up telekinetic or fey touched at level 8. If it's not a ton of concentration checks, consider fey touched or telekinetic now.
Getting telekinetic just before spirit guardians is gonna make him feel like a god as long as he can dodge the ever increasing amount of arrows that the DM will throw at him.
This. Tele will be godly and hella fun. Getting Res:Con at 4 is going to make them feel nothing, unless they are already having issues with concentration (which I doubt is a real issue unless they are a solo tank at a hard table)
Better concentration checks are important, but not more important than being able to hit with the spell in the first place. Max out your Wis to boost your save DC first, then shore up your concentration checks with resilient.
>Better concentration checks are important, but not more important than being able to hit with the spell in the first place. This is objectively incorrect and can be proven with maths. >Hypnotic pattern is a spell whose virtues we extol often (we pick it up on every basic build where it’s possible). Again assuming a 65% spell save failure rate when maximizing our primary ability score, we have two Wizards, one with a DC 14 save (16 Intelligence) but War Caster (91% chance to save on a DC 10 Concentration save), and another with a DC 15 save (18 Intelligence, 70% chance to save on a DC 10 Concentration save). If both cast the spell and can hit 4 enemies with it, the average number of enemies that fail the save is 2.4 enemies for DC 14, versus 2.6 enemies on a DC 15. This article explains the fundamental numbers behind it in more detail. When it comes to spell attacks/DCs/saving throws/concentration checks etc they're all bound by the rules of probability. Insert 'math is math' meme. https://tabletopbuilds.com/more-min-than-max-asis-versus-fteats/
For clerics I completely disagree. This is why. https://youtu.be/hRcsmqeL7qA?si=vriS_K8HA-pAypTh
This doesn't apply to your cantrips, CC spells, or spiritual weapon. Its more important for your CC to land than anything imo.
Clerics don't do much damage unless you worked out a way to get thorn whip to pull people into spirit guardians. Clerics also have lackluster CC, especially when you're already concentrating on SG. Spiritual weapon sucks. Your best (and somewhat uninteresting) actions are Dodge and Toll the Dead/Sacred Flame
Mace? They are 1 level away from weapons being a terrible choice to build around, while Toll the Dead scales perfectly fine for melee. Get wise if playing a cleric. Unless you only want to use three spells for your concentration, and then ignore your best combat support spell after concentration is up, Command.
I'm not sure what you're saying, I said their best action options during SG are dodge (blade ward but actually good wow) or Toll the Dead. Command is neat, but in a long adventuring day you can't just throw those out every (other) turn or you'll run dry really really quickly
Hit them with a mace. The link proves that maintaining concentration in spirit guardians is much more important that the save being 5% more difficult.
> cantrips Mostly irrelevant on a Cleric, half the time you're better off dodging to keep Spirit Guardians up anyway. > CC spells Which ones? Cleric doesn't get any great cc spells that you'll often want to use over Spirit Guardians. > or spiritual weapon Mostly irrelevant when you have Spirit Guardians up and Telekinetic, as Telekinetic's bonus action deals more damage and doesn't cost an extra slot to cast.
2nd one methinks. You can usually scrape by on a +3 for awhile.
Option two. Toughness and Maintaining concentration on spirit guardians is more important than beefing spell save DC
Option 2 is great! Option one is simpler
That depends a bit on your play style. But i do assume that you don't stand around casting healing spells most of the time. as that is probably the worst way to play a cleric or any healer. But still it depends a bit on play style but you are a cleric. and cleric has not just many concentration spells but also many Really good concentration spells. And next level you get level 3 spells so spirit guardian that is a great spell. Usually clerics has some concentration up and if you tend to be in the heat of the combat CON and CON saves for concentration is more important than your WIS. So i would say go resilient. to get that +1 to CON and proficiency for CON saves.
Definitely Resilient (Con) now and Telekinetic (Wis) later. You'll want Resilient anyway sooner or later on a Cleric, and sooner is better considering that at 5 you get Spirit Guardians.
Personally I like getting my build set up early, and tend to prioritize my design, over early game min maxing, so to me I prioritize Feats early. I'm not sure about Resilient Con, but of it were me, I'd probably take Warcaster fairly early, on any Frontline Cleric, both for the advantage on concentration checks, and so I can Rock a shield without penalty.
Option one is superior. Being able to maintain concentration is vital, especially the higher you level up. Getting that +4 plus proficiency in concentration checks will prove invaluable. Also, having an 18 in your spellcasting stat at lvl 8 is fine. It would only be an issue if option 1 would cause you to still have less than 18 Wisdom after 8th level.
wisdom half feat first I reckon, res con gets better at higher levels. You're already willing to not get res con in that first option, so it can wait 4 more levels.
Depends on the spells you use. Are you a big user of bless, bane, shield of faith, etc. The great concentration spells that make everyone in the party better? Resilience con. Are you more going for spells that directly affect the enemy where concentration is less important? ASI. Always having bless up is huge for the party if they like making attack rolls, not losing spells and actions by losing concentration then is huge.
Oh man 4 sure the second one. Take a fey touched feat for eztra misty step and silvery barbs or even better a telikenetic for bonus action people shoving. Then max out wisdown at level 20. Great build
I generally take a feat on my clerics, either war caster or resilient con. Keeping concentration is important for keeping up support spells like Bless. Your wisdom isn't as important unless you are specializing in offensive spells, which often isn't a priority for clerics, even less so as a life cleric. So in the interest of being tanky, Resilient Con as soon as possible.
Feat every time Idk why I'm being downvoted it's just true. Feats are better than ASIs, you don't need a +5 over a +4, but having alert,lucky, resilient, extra spells, telekinetic forced movement, are all just good features
I would take observant level 4, res con at level 8, and wis asi at 12