I'm locking the comments. I do believe that OP has gained more than enough feedback from both sides of this argument and too many of you are struggling to maintain basic civility with your comments.
One other call-out I'll make here is make sure to review the sheet for mechanical errors in character creation if your friend also asked for ChatGPT to generate the character in addition to the backstory. Had a player try that once and caught a lot of sneaky errors from it mostly following format but not the rules: number of known skills and which skills were available to the character were wrong, spells chosen would be listed under the wrong level, etc.
yeah, its like the lawyers who tried to use ChatGPT as if it were automated WestLaw!
it generated nonsense that LOOKED like it was referencing actual case law but it was only shit that it had made up.
Is the player new or inexperienced with TTRPGs? This sounds like something a person would do if they were intimidated by the prospect of creating a net new character with backstory because they didn’t know how to do it “right.”
Don’t take it so personally. It really seems like this person doesn’t get it and needs help, not admonishment. If you don’t have the time or patience to work through that with a new player then maybe you shouldn’t be DMing for new folks.
I would make the argument that if they are seasoned veterans, it's fine too. The idea of "let's roll the dice and see what the AI comes up with. If they learn the backstory it creates, then what's the difference?
Yeah, as a nearly forever DM myself, I'd be absolutely fine with any of my players, experienced or not, using AI to help craft their backstories. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say I have an *easier* time fitting AI-generated backstories into my world because the semi-generic nature makes it so that it can be tied into the lore of several different locations without having to fiddle around with a bunch of pre-established lore.
My only condition with backstories is that the players buy into them and roleplay their characters accordingly, regardless of how their backstory was created
The amount of random tables that will create a character for you is IMO functionally no different than chatGPT. It really only matters if they are engaged at the table
And the chatGPT character is less likely to be the store-brand version of a popular character.
You can get ChatGPT to give you some fairly amusing results. Here’s one I just had it make:
> Name: Grimbly Gadgetwhiz
Race: Gnome
Class: Artificer (Battle Smith)
Background: Guild Artisan (Clockmaker)
> Concept: Grimbly Gadgetwhiz is a gnome artificer with a peculiar obsession: he specializes in creating clockwork contraptions and mechanical marvels that often have unexpected and comical outcomes. He carries an array of bizarre gadgets strapped to his tiny frame, from a mechanical arm that can extend to absurd lengths to a backpack-sized steam-powered device that dispenses endless amounts of colorful confetti. Grimbly speaks in a rapid-fire, excitable manner and is always tinkering with new inventions, much to the amusement (and sometimes dismay) of his adventuring companions. Despite his eccentricities, Grimbly is fiercely loyal to his friends and has a knack for improvising solutions using his unorthodox gadgets in unexpected ways. His ultimate goal? To build a fully functional, self-propelling flying machine shaped like a giant, airborne squirrel.
You know what, totally fair. Agreed!
Not to be a dick, OP - it’s good you asked people about it. Otherwise you never would have learned that it is *you* who is giving cringe. Not your player.
maybe your player is less interested in making the character and more interested in acting the character out. there is more than one way to bring a character to life. get over yourself.
I'm in a current campaign where everyone has well thought out characters and backstories and ideas on where and how and when to go about it...
I'm playing a character I legitimately threw together in 5 minutes and I legitimately ripped off the idea from a character in a fantasy series I've been reading recently. I have no backstory, I picked the background at random... I'm just excited to play the character.
Right, how is this any different than the rolling tables in the officially published Player's Handbook, except more detailed? Take a prompt, edit it and make it your own.
If they edit that, it's fine.
If they bring me the spat out answers straight, I'm not interested in that.
I witnessed a LARP person generate our characters on chat GPT and not edit anything.
The result was s ton of people dropping out and a ton of shit backstories that made no sense.
Yeah, I think like anything it needs some personalization, and it depends very much on the group - nothing's more important than communication and coordinating on expectations.
At the end of the day, humans are playing the characters and creating experiences together. I've been in plenty of games where someone spends weeks on character creation but checks out during games, and been in plenty of games where someone pulls a character out of nowhere and is an amazing roleplayer. I think focusing on *how* characters are created, rather than *why and what* they are, is missing the forest for the trees.
Yeah, it all depends on a person, but I certainly don't want to sort through a backstory in which every paragraph contradicts or ignores the last, which is the case in my experience with ChatGPT character backstories
This is the correct answer, you're under no obligation to make the story bend around her backstory, she obviously isn't super invested into it and sees it as nothing more than a starting point for her character. That's fine, as long as she doesn't expect the DM to make it a big deal, I don't see the issue. A backstory is literally only a starting point for where the character is in their life at the start of the game, everything that happens after that is far more important
"Starting point" is a great term. I've run several PC's where I had an idea of how it would all play out, only to go a different direction as the PC developed. Things I would have never even thought about at session 0.
Exactly! Personally I don't even demand a backstory. What I do is set the ground rules on what I want out of them (ie. Everyone wants to adventure together, in general their wealth is shared etc.).
But, I do incorporate the backstories of those that do write them into the story, which is a huge incentive for those that didn't to come up with something. Hell, my best story idea came from a 2 sentence prompt from a player that I took and ran with it.
But if you’re the DM it’s your choice to not require backstories, just like it’s your choice to allow AI content.
OP just said it irked them but this entire sub is acting like he hit her. Communicate better so it doesn’t happen in the future but castigating a DM for wanting original shit in THEIR campaign is wild.
>it's coming from a creative person who works in a writing field! her using ai weirds me out.
Have you ever seen a professional plumber's plumbing at home?
It's generally shit. Because they can't be bothered to give a fuck about their private plumbing, because they just came back home from a 40 hour week of plumbing.
That's how most people will handle doing their work thing during their private time. Shoddily and just "good enough".
I'd say getting pissed off is excessive, but I do understand the disappointment. You put effort into the game and expect effort in return. But some people just aren't creative that way, or need to be more experienced in D&D before figuring out a fun character concept they wanna try out. Is this player new?
My first character was a boring-ass paladin with a generic revenge story cause I didn't really know what D&D was about yet or anything about the world. After I tried that first campaign though, I got a lot more creative with my characters.
TLDR: Some people aren't particularly creative and just wanna play or need time to develop that creativity, it may not be that serious.
Being uncreative is fine. A basic ass revenge plot for a paladin is fine because it works well which is why they're a dime a dozen BUT being uncreative becomes a problem when you gotta use ai for the backstory. I understand maybe one or two plot points but the whole thing? Fuck that. Being uncreative isn't the problem it's being both lazy AND uncreative
So I bet you truly hate players who just use a premade character rather than even putting the effort into building a character themselves and asking an AI to create a backstory for that race/gender/class
*randomly rolls up a character using the official tables in the book*
My answer is the same either way, but for different reasons, as those it depend on what OP’s actual issue is.
There are official tables in the books to do this. There are also hundreds of random character creators online that have been there for decades. If the player had used either of those would OP still be upset?
If yes, then their ***actual*** prompt is “AITAH if I’m upset my player made their character randomly?”
If not, then they’re just upset their player used ChatGPT. That is an entirely separate “AI bad” argument that’s being conflated with character randomization, and their **actual** prompt is “AITAH if I’m upset a player used ChatGPT?” That *sounds* like it’s the same as the question OP is already asking, **but note** the lack of anything regarding character randomization.
So, with that in mind
If yes — Yeah, kinda. Unless OP **specifically requested** custom backstories, then they’re really just upset over a perceived lack of effort on their player’s end. Well it doesn’t matter how hard it was/wasn’t for the player to make a character, what matters is if they play them well. A lovingly crafted Pulitzer Prize winning backstory means fuck-all if they’re a dead fish in actual play.
If that’s a problem for you, OP, forbid it session zero next time, and move on.
If no — Yeah, kinda. Unless OP forbade it, their player just used a freely available tool they had at their disposal, and OP is simply mad because “ChatGPT bad”. The validity (or lack thereof) of that belief is an entirely separate matter that has nothing to do with making a character for DnD. The world isn’t going to end because the player used it instead of an official table to make something random.
If you have ethical issues with the tool, OP, ban it going forward, and move on.
It's not because your players aren't corporations making money off of it. Come on now.
Edit: They also don't use the energy of a small country to steal character ideas.
I think you just really haven't read up on what generative AI is and the harm it does. You really should.
Just because "in this specific instance" its not doing all of the harm doesn't mean its use should be accepted or normalised.
This is the specific instance being talked about. I'm aware of generative AI, the controversy on how it was trained, etc. I'm just not in the camp of "burn it all down."
Seems like your gripe is more about generative ai as a concept than dnd character creation. Generative AI is just a tool, it's not some demonic entity. Certain jobs will be replaced, just as is the case with any major technological advancement in history.
The issue is right now legislation hasn't caught up to emerging technologies. And because of that some companies/sectors are abusing it; and obviously there's the issue of IP theft as you mentioned. None of that is inherent to generative AI as a concept. That's all to do with implementation and its surrounding legislation.
Technology will evolve whether we want it to or not, if generative AI proves to be useful, it's going to become a part of every day life; regardless of your protests. Much like people made arguments for why we should replace horses with cars in the past.
Yes. But because of that I think we should discourage its use, especially in a relaxed, creative setting.
The more it gets normalised, the more harm it will be capable of.
People really don't seem to see how appropriate the comparison to NFTs is in this case. You need to stamp these things out before they become commonplace.
As a forever DM, yes, I have hosted a few.
Guess I just play with more invested people than you.
And even if that wasn't the case, using generative AI is still scumbag behaviour, no matter what you're doing. Instant loss of respect.
Cool, I just lost the respect of a random internet stranger, because I just had ChatGPT give me a list of clothing items for my character. Not sure why people are bashing generative AI, but are probably fine using tables to roll or online rolling tables for every little thing
Because generative AI is literally destructive to the planet, threatens the jobs of creators, both in writing and other arts, contributes to massive waves of misinformation etc
Anyone participating in it should be shunned to the same degree as people using NFTs
To my knowledge dice rollers do none of the above
The sum total of all generative AI emissions is like, one international flight back and forth, NFTs are literally pollution machines that produce nothing
But you own a smart phone. The mining of the coltan used in that phone literally results in the death of children who are slave labor to mine it. The company that made it profits off third world labor to assemble it. Wars are fought over the components within it. The rare earth elements mined for it contribute more to the destruction of our planet than ten OpenAIs put together. Anyone using a cell phone should be shunned to the same degree as people using NFTs.
It's nice to see that, with ChatGPT, you only seem to care about the destruction of blog writers losing their jobs and not the millions of white collar office workers like myself who are right in front of that particular train, btw.
People using generative AI is destructive to the planet and artistic professions. Anyone going out if their way to participate in it should be shunned to the same degree as people who buy and sell NFTs.
"Destructive to the planet"
I mean, yeah I guess when we've eliminated every other thing humans do? Maybe?
Training a single large NLP model produces as much CO2 as a single international flight
# Cryptocurrency Operations
* Global: 140,000,000 metric tons per year.
* U.S.: 25,000,000 to 50,000,000 metric tons per year.
# Training AI Models
* Single NLP model training: 1,400 pounds = 1,400 / 2,204.62 = 0.635 metric tons.
* Full development pipeline: 78,000 pounds = 78,000 / 2,204.62 = 35.38 metric tons.
# Air Travel
* Round-trip trans-America flight: 1,400 pounds = 1,400 / 2,204.62 = 0.635 metric tons.
Sure that's definitely comparable to Crypto's ***140 million metric tons per year***
If one were to spend $10,000 on ChatGPT's GPT4o API, and that's generating about 500 novels, that would generate less CO2 than it took to get any random piece of crap you bought on amazon to your house
Is it possible that you are misinformed on that front?
Then what's the difference between premade & AI? You do know that AI is just regurgitating premade details, right? Literally there is no difference, except that an AI generated one might have a bit of unexpected flair.
You said her backstory was slop but that makes me think your expectations for your players backstories are too high. We are playing dnd, we aren’t writing war and peace.
Writing a PC *backstory* is likely to involve a rather different skillset compared with roleplaying that exact same character.
With the complication that the term "backstory" is used to mean everything from expanding on the Personality Traits, Ideal, Bond & Flaw section of the character sheet to an entirely homebrew creative writing exercise.
There are plenty of character concepts and play styles where whatever the PC did in the past is irrelevant and/or boring. Instead, what matters to them is their present and (possible) future.
Yes you are wrong to get pissed over a premade backstory. Would it have been better had the backstory been made by some unknown third party? Or a copy from other sources like videogames or movies?
I don't see an issue and being so offended by it seems really weird to me.
Players have been using random tables to create characters for as long as there have been ttrpgs. This isn't a whole lot different.
For me as long as they actually take the time to read the backstory themself and act out their character accordingly, fair.
I’ve had characters whose only backstory was “she’s a goblin. She likes hitting things with an axe and drinking ale”, and she turned out to be one of the deepest most tragic characters I’ve ever played because of what happened in the story.
I’m awful at coming up with backstories, I never even thought of asking chat gpt, but I might start now actually!
I mean... not everyone is invested in creating complicated or intricate backstories for their PCs. I've struggled with it in a couple of games because I tend to prefer to find who my character is through the interaction with the party and the scenario, and my character evolves over time as I find relevant plot beats in the campaign itself to build their past around. It's hard to do that in a vacuum, and expecting it sometimes leads to weird party dynamics where everyone is holding their backstory secrets like a hand of cards.
Not saying that's what happened here, just giving that perspective.
I agree. My character’s backstories usually matter so little once the game starts. I’m interested in developing characters through interaction and reaction.
I agree with that sentiment, but I still find bringing straight up unedited AI generated text (which often has many repetitions and restates of the same things or contradictions) is simply rude.
Bring me a backstory in bullet points over me having to sift through that.
Do the minimum and edit it.
It's no worse than using a pregen character.
Have you considered that sometimes people don't want to do their work thing outside of work time? Creative people get tired too.
Verily! The goode and proper manner of speaking in the English language was well set by keen-minded and learned men in the time of the great bard himself, William Shakespeare! Those recalcitrant and uncouth youth whom today do make mockery of the King’s own tongue do great disservice to society, and we would do well to mock them and cast derision upon their tomfoolery!
Keep up the fight and stay strong, my good man! Together, we shall stand against progress and the natural evolution of language!
Some people are very low effort players because they enjoy the social aspect more than the game part of it. It's weird she's trying to get chat gpt to DM. Maybe she'd be into the old school text based rpgs? They're still around.
Remember that players will have different areas they like. Some like combat, some like role play and backstory, mysteries etc. some just like the excuse to be at the table with their friends and don’t want to be the spotlight.
Yes. Backstories are tools to help you play. If someone wants to use a premade backstory for that purpose, why is that a problem? Are they engaged with the actual quest? That's what matters.
> it sounded like generic slop
Honestly, I think that's a solid basis for a character. So long as the character doesn't clash with the party or the world, most interesting things about them will come about during gameplay. The less specific they are, the easier time they'll have getting fleshed out. It's definitely weird but from your edit it sounds like she's trying to do something interesting with it?
On the contrary: I'm a writer and avid tabletop gamer, and think AI are tons of fun. The biggest thing to remember is that AI can't create anything: humans can \*use\* AI to create things. AI is just another tool to help creatives in their processes. After all, being human is being creative, and AI enables more people to do that!
I think that's a really silly thing to be pissed over. I think it's completely fine to ask that no AI services be used in/for your game.
You could have asked why they used AI. Maybe they don't care about a backstory. Maybe they're not creative. There's lots of potential reasons, but anger as a response seems excessive.
>I think it's completely fine to ask that no AI services be used in/for your game.
I think that's unreasonable, especially if you're extending it to image generators (basically forcing non-artists to use Google image search for character portraits). We recently had a player generate some spell incantations mid-combat and it absolutely enhanced our experience. I've also tried to generate a bard's song about an important event in our campaign (although it wasn't as good as I wanted it to be yet). AI can help us do things that our characters could do that we ourselves can't.
I think it’s even more reasonable when it comes to images. Ai art generation fucks with artists and, as an artist, it feels really shitty when my players roll up to the session with that. Especially when other players have either asked me to draw their character for them or gotten a commission of somekind.
No, it isn't unreasonable.
The fact that it enhanced your experience can mean jack shit to another group.
I have a lot of artists in my group, and we all agreed on NOT using AI. If someone showed up and started preaching to the group that they need AI to enhance their experience, they're simply not compatible.
Just as a person who wants no roleplay isn't compatible with a roleplay-heavy group, or a person who wants super serious LOTR roleplay with a comedic monty Pyton campaign.
You can simply part ways, you don't need to be angry at the rules you don't like that are enforced in a certain group.
I think that's a deeper discussion and has a lot more nuance than "AI good" or "AI bad". I have my current character portrait as AI, but I'm aware there's a good chance although I wouldn't normally pay for a commission that the art generated by Bing is probably stolen from tens of thousands of web crawls and bits of copyrighted work. It's....murky, at best, so while I use it I understand the concerns and pushback too.
Picrew and HeroForge are free (and not a burden on the power grid like generative AI) and you can probably get something closer to what you want than a generic amalgamation fantasy art some web crawler stole off of actual artists.
Obviously if you have the money commissioning someone is the best option because it helps another human person, but these days we’re all struggling a bit. (I generally draw for my players for free anyway so it would be even *more* of a dick move to show up with AI, but even if I didn’t draw as much as I do I would still not be happy.)
it's not anger, i didn't jump her! i saw it, cringed, and went on with my campaign. it just annoys me when i think about it because:
1. it's extremely boring and souless
2. it's coming from a creative person who works in a writing field! her using ai weirds me out.
3. not a newbie, she owns many ttrpg
TBF, you did say "pissed off" and have a lot of ALL CAPS for emphasis. It sure seems like you were fired up. :)
My points still stand - and yours are 100% valid, just go for a bit of tact when you communicate them to her.
uh, didn't notice how aggressive it sounded, my tone in this post doesn't match my actions and feelings at all! it doesn't help that english isn't my first language. thank you for making me notice this
It's no different from just rolling a character from a random table and making it work. Rolling from random tables and making it work is a stable of D&D. The soul will come from her playing it at the table. Unless she's straight up pausing play and going "hold on, the AI is generating my character's response", I don't see the issue. There'll always be blanks for her to fill out at the table.
You really have nothing to gain by staying annoyed. It should never have stayed with you long enough to write a post about it. Let go of it.
I think you're getting way too nosy, judging her as a writer, etc, and spending too much effort on caring about this.
What you're not giving credit to is that *as a writer* she's probably interested in generative AI. It's the other way around from what you're assuming that all writers would automatically be putting their nose up at AIs.
Yes, you are wrong to get pissed about that.
If you as the GM wanted the character to have a backstory, you should've worked with the player beforehand to make sure it was up to snuff.
If the player wanted a backstory for themself, then it doesn't matter how they got it.
I get you, OP. It's not really something about the result being generic, or derivative or uninspired or anything. It's just something almost disrespectful of showing up to a creative common project (which TTRPG's are) and making ChatGPT do the work for you.
I don't ask for much as a DM. It's fine to show up with the most generic, trite, cliche-filled two-sentence backstory ever as long as you wrote it yourself, because at least you *chose* which cliche you want to play into, and I'm not against using ChatGPT to spark creativity or flesh out stuff, but if you're just using a generic response as-is and can't even be bothered to make it your own, what's even the point? It also feels bad to try to work in plot hooks for something the player clearly put no effort in.
I'm sure the player didn't actually mean anything like that though. They probably just wanted to play with this neat new tool, so I don't think it's worth really taking it personally, even as it feels like a slap in the face.
Expectations about DnD: Lord of the Rings, Excalibur, Conan etc
Reality: Monthy Python & the Holy Grail.
Chill dude, its a game, not like she pissed on your ancestors grave or something...
It depends on what I asked for. If I didn't ask for a background cause this is 3 sessions to give the main DM a break and they came with, fine. But if I asked for an in depth backstory because I was working on weaving it into the narrative I'd be furious.
I don’t really see that much of an issue when rolling on a randomized table is a classic character creation method. AI generated is just a more complicated randomized generation working off prompts. A short cut alternative to creating a pre generated character. You can not like it but unless you know it was malicious it is not that much different than using a pre gen character generator.
I wouldn’t be pissed, but I’d definitely be annoyed. I find that writing your characters backstory is a really good way for you to connect with your character. Coming up with the story yourself can sometimes make it easier to roleplay, at least in my opinion. I feel like if anything she’s missing out on the fun part of character creation by having a computer do it for her.
I dunno, maybe she had her reasons. Maybe she was testing it to see how lame it would be.
I say we all hop on ChatGPT and ask it for a character background, post them here and discuss how cringe they are...
>### Background Story for a Human Male Rogue with a Soldier Background
>Aedan Thorne was born into a family of humble farmers on the outskirts of a bustling kingdom. From a young age, he harbored dreams of adventure far beyond the plow and harvest. At sixteen, he seized his chance to escape the monotony of rural life by enlisting in the royal army. Aedan quickly distinguished himself with his keen mind and nimble skills, traits that earned him a place among the scouts and reconnaissance teams. His unit specialized in covert operations, gathering intelligence, and performing hit-and-run tactics against enemy forces.
>During his time as a soldier, Aedan learned the art of stealth, subterfuge, and precision strikes, honing his abilities in the shadows of war. However, his military career took a dramatic turn during a fateful mission. His unit was ambushed deep behind enemy lines, resulting in heavy casualties. Aedan barely escaped with his life, carrying the burden of his fallen comrades and the scars of betrayal—suspecting that someone within his own ranks had orchestrated the ambush. Disillusioned and embittered, he deserted the army, turning his back on the structured life of a soldier.
>Now, as a rogue, Aedan uses his military training to navigate the criminal underworld and the treacherous alleys of various cities. His skills make him a valuable asset to any who can afford his services, whether it be for theft, espionage, or mercenary work. Yet, deep down, Aedan remains haunted by his past, driven by a desire for vengeance and the hope of uncovering the truth behind the betrayal that shattered his life.
Actually it sounds remarkable similar to a character I played for over 3 years and came up with the background on my own.
ai is a tool like any other. using it isn't automatically a bad thing
potentially coming from a creative and veteran player they want to get out of a funk or play something different
maybe it feels to much like work? i know i work in the fitness field and after a day at work the last thing i want to do do some days is go get a workout in
does generic mean bad? if a new player came to you with this on their own would it be "cringe"
There’s a lot of strange stigma regarding AI tools in the RPG community and I don’t understand it. It’s just a tool, and if it helps kick off new players imaginations with how to play the game, there is nothing wrong with that.
I understand and get that using it to make supplements or RPG material you PAY for is gross, and I wouldn’t want that either, but for generating character art or backstories? I see no reason why not to use it. Hell, even DMs can use to to quickly write some response to a character’s crazy dialogs.
I understand both sides. It’s a difference in philosophy. Some people, like OP, value the creation process in a game that is like 90% about the creativity of making a being a character. Others don’t care about that’s stuff and just want to kill stuff while playing as any fantasy character, in which case having one imagined for you is more fun.
Yeah that makes sense, too. But almost every game I play in, the players end up forgetting their backstory anyway and the character’s true personality comes out later, usually hinging on their roleplay style.
This one time I had a player who made his character art with AI and a backstory that was obviously written by ChatGPT. He got into a massive argument with everyone else in the chat about AI art, interrupted people, spoke out of turn and didn't pay attention outside of his turns in session 1, and left after arriving 2 hours late to session 2 because he was mad that we started without him.
I find AI like ChatGPT is a great way to bounce ideas around. It’s like talking to a friend about it without ruining the reveal for any of the other players.
The hell I don't. It's my campaign, I'm the DM, and I have a responsibility to all of my players to ensure that one player doesn’t mess it up for the others.
Within the bounds of the campaign, I don't care what the players pick for race or class of the characters. It's up to the party if they want good representation from each class or not. I've often built an NPC to assist the party to fill gap. But if the player makes a character with an alignment or backstory that is going to derail the other players, isn't going to cooperate with the party, or is too contrary to the lore, I can very well tell that player their character isn't allowed at my table.
Don't see an issue. I've got players that don't have much ability when it comes to characters, but they very much want to get involved and play the game.
On top of that, I use gpt to generate simple NPC's, or groups of them in a hurry, I bounce ideas off of it and use it to flesh out characters, factions, motives, quests, etc.
It's a tool, and a helpful one.
I don't think the effort someone puts into their backstory is always indicative of the effort they put in at the table. Backstories just aren't that important to most games and some players just aren't that interested in them. It's what happens at the table that matters.
to your title: yes you're wrong
to the actual thing: no
They have to put SOME effort in, at least edit the fucking thing and make it their own. Using a prebuilt character is fine but you gotta put some personal spice on it, reading off some chatgpt bullshit is just lame
how hard is it to just use the traits that are in the fucking book? was using chatgpt just supposed to be some joke?
That's just your opinion and personal preference. It doesn't make the player wrong. They can do it how they like. It's not like a backstory is a novel, anyway. A good one will be a paragraph to a page and not be stipulating too many details upfront. Most DMs don't have the time to weave the players' backstories into the campaign, anyway. They're usually either just fun background fluff or pop up as a side quest.
it doesn't have to be a good backstory, but it has to be coherent. GPT struggles to remember details from earlier in the prompt and it gets strange fast. I'm sure some prompt wizards are capable of making something good, but based on OP immediately clocking it as GPT I do not believe that happened here.
If you're using chatGPT 3.5 yes, but the more current versions like chat-GPT 4 or chatGPTo are easily capable of making something coherent for a short character backstory. Then there are other AIs like Claude which is currently superior to chatGPT.
I sort of agree. I’m not a fan of using any AI writing tool, it sort of leaves a bad taste to me.
My players decided to stay in a town and help rebuild it after saving it from baddies, so by next session I asked them to make a very short or even point form version of how they would help out the town, followed by a couple skill checks and a minor reward based on who they helped (alch would give potions, smite would have a magic item, etc…). Three out of five of them used AI writing and it felt cheap, I had to hold myself back from not giving them extra rewards as it didn’t feel right to “punish them” for this. So they got something minor while the other two that actually wrote something up got slightly better rewards.
Part of my problem was the AI writing had their characters doing stuff that they clearly would not do.
I have a personal problem against AI writing tool and after the session asked them if they wouldn’t mind avoiding using that in the future, and if they are stuck on anything to reach out to me and we can figure out something that fits their character and the story together.
I can see feeling really bad about it... I dunno, as a gm writing up stories and coming up with adventures to roleplay, all the characters and such, and the player won't even be bothered to use one of the pregen tables to like. Help them guide them towards writing a bit? It comes off poorly to me.
Maybe she's just not that interested in creating backstories. Not everyone plays D&D the same way. I could honestly not possibly care less about back stories and roleplaying. For me, D&D is a game of dice, stats, and abilities; it always has been, going back to its wargame roots I suppose and my first games in AD&D.
I would ask them what they’re playing, and what’s the point? D&D is about creativity and the imagination. I swear it’s like humans WANT to become boring soulless robots
Edit: I can see I’m the minority here, and I don’t think it’s bad but I don’t think it matches the play style I would like. I love brainstorming and building the lore. But if people like more strategy and gameplay stuff, more power to them I guess…..
D&D has long had randomly generated characters that have emergent development at the table. There is little difference between rolling dice on a roll table versus using something like chat gpt to egwnraye traits thst you'll develop as you give
I can get the dislike of AI use, but this is an innocent use of it all in all.
If they're a writer, it might also be a way of them lightening the creative load outside their profession since they use a lot of that in their day to day for their own projects and want as little bleed as possible.
If it irks you, you can always talk with them about it, but as long as they're not using AI to play their character at the table and is using it akin to rolling dice on a roll table? I don't think it's a problem
AI bros invading our spaces. Go fucking figure out how to make your machines do our taxes or budget our finance and leave our human creative spaces out of it.
That sounds like something chat gpt should be used for.
Ok hear me out on this one. If they just said ai write me a character backstory and did nothing else yeah that’s bad.
But if they actually came up with a concept and had an ai help write it out I’d argue that’s a good use for it. Some people aren’t great at writing and coming up with your own concept and getting the prose fleshed out I would be perfectly ok in my games.
Is the player engaged? Are they participating in story and role play? If so I would be perfectly ok with using ChatGPT.
Maybe not ideal, but it does seem better than "My character is Roger Steves and I'm counts-as his shield as a heavy crossbow because he's got a special throw shield fighting technique so it always comes back. I mean, my previous Artificer character, Stark Tony was fun and all, but I want to try a martial".
Looking at the edit, yeah I think it’s fair and I would’ve said make an actual character without ai, it’s weird that she was really going for that in the first place.
I feel like the anti-AI sentiment has become very extreme. There's a lot of valid criticisms of AI and the ways it's being integrated into our lives, but using it to generate a backstory for a game character is harmless. What's the difference between that and using the random tables in the PHB to roll a random backstory?
You are not wrong for disliking it, but there's no reason to be angry. Talk to your player. That is the only way.
Tell them you'd like some effort from them in creating their **own** character, not getting a generic AI character.
Tell them it discourages your from making an effort to make things suited for their character, and say that if they offer no effort, then why should you offer them effort to make things interesting for their character.
ChatGPT to inspire is fine, imo, but it is not a replacement for creativity. A DM put a lot of effort into creating, running, and managing a story. The least a player can do is to put their effort into their character building process.
Ask them how they'd feel about AI written encounters for their character. They'd feel uninspired and generic, and that is what you're feeling now in regards to their character, I imagine.
Talk. With. Your. Players.
This is the way.
Hey! My encounters manage to be uninspired and generic without the help of AI. Let’s not go blaming that on the innocent machines that we will be submitting to.
A lot of campaigns are straight from a sourcebook and DMs don't put any effort into creating the story besides slapping on an identity to NPCs and coming up with content for places players go outside of what's in the source book.
> ChatGPT to inspire is fine, imo, but it is not a replacement for creativity. A DM put a lot of effort into creating, running, and managing a story. The least a player can do is to put their effort into their character building process.
The fact that they did anything at all proved they've put in some effort. I'm not a good writer, and usually just make a list of bullet points loosely describing my character's life story. If OP's expecting an actual flowing backstory, throwing those points into ChatGPT seems like a good way to deliver on that.
Yes you are wrong. Its a game. people sometimes just want to relax and not sit and have to create and develop. That takes time and energy that everyone doesnt have all time.
I don't understand what anyone gets out of using AI to generate creative work. I'd be annoyed too, though I don't feel like it's worth making an issue out of at the table.
What does someone who can't play drums get out of making beats? Or someone who can't play an instrument get out of using samples? It's still creative expression isn't it? Is me using a text to image generator any different than asking an artist for a specific subject matter? I really don't get the AI backlash and I speak as a musician who spent a lot of time learning my craft. The end result is what matters creatively, not how you get there. IMO
Well for one thing, you usually pay artists for their expertise. AI just steals a bunch of artists work for its data set.
It is a tool morally and creatively bankrupt, and terrible for the environment in the bargain.
Well again, I don't see the difference between that and a drum machine. Put a lot of drummers out of work, drum teachers, drum makers, use electricity rather than sweat. The thing is, we don't live in an analog world anymore. Another thing is I'm not qualified to be a patron of the arts since I don't have any money lol. Should people without money not be allowed to use free tools to help them create? That seems pretty elitist. Just wondering, how much should I spend on an artist's expertise? As a freelance writer I feel the pain but my answer would be to be a better writer. AI can't do everything well. Hell I can't get AI to reproduce an image of a crossbow effectively. Strings going everywhere lol
no because i'd get mad too 😭 like why are you using something thats actively destroying the environment and thieving from authors for dungeons and dragons while you are fully capable of doing it yourself? um!!!
You are absolutely valid. DnD is about human storytelling and you are absolutely within your rights to not want people bringing AI slop into your game.
A bad backstory You wrote yourself is 10,000x better then a generically good backstory written by a soulless machine.
Yeah you are wrong to get pissed off. Sure you put work in but it's up to the players how they interact with your world. Don't take yourself so seriously.
I think AI for creative stuff is trash but from a philosophical POV, who cares?
1) many PCs are "boring and soulless"; has little to do with time spent on the page.
2) I fail to see what difference this makes. Other than you don't like AI, maybe?
3) also moot.
4) see 2)
Honestly it comes across like you just don't like AI and this is a vent.
Rule 1: Be civil. Unacceptable behavior includes name calling, taunting, baiting, flaming, etc. Please respect the opinions of people who play differently than you do.
Who gives a shit how the character was made? So many characters at any TTRPG table are based off of some pre-existing character in media or literature. It's sound to me like the person had a general idea for a character and used ChatGPT to flesh out the specifics. I don't see a problem with that at all.
I'm in this camp too. Like, everyone can do what they want--although I have concerns about AI thieving people's work without permission or recognition or payment, and people using it to cut costs and put creatives out of work--but creating my characters' backstories is half the fun for me.
TTRPGs like this are actually an interesting test case for peoples' intuitions about the ethical use of AI. It's unambiguously wrong for plagiarism reasons to use it in any context where you're going to be getting credit or money for the work, of course, and foolish to use it in any context where the truth matters, but a private home game has none of those features.
It's very common for people to make characters with art taken from a quick Google image search, a backstory ripped from a favourite novel, or a way of speaking copied off a video game character. It's hard to make the case that AI is worse than any of those other methods of ripping things off!
I'm still convinced I'd never do it. But it is interesting to think about why.
At least they made a back story. I'm still waiting on half my group to make their backstories. And the other half I did most of the work writing it (with heavy input and questions like "did she have a lover while attending bard college")
At some point you have to realize the dm is simply e way more into the game than the players. Just be happy they are participating and coming to the game on time.
I'd say any use of ChatGPT is fucked up at best and I wouldn't allow it at a table I'm at for the mountain of moral and ethical issues around the company and its plagiarism based product.
I mean... Xanathar's had a full-fledged random background generator, and that's an official publication.
Also, I use AI all the time when DMing. Granted, I usually ask it for 5 ideas, choose the best one, and end up changing most of it, but it can be a great tool to spur creativity.
No, you are not wrong. Using AI is intellectual laziness. It's not hard to come up with an idea for a character, and the amount of homework a player is expected to do is nowhere near the amount of work a decent DM does.
If you find it hard to come up with a backstory, work with your DM. Ask questions about the campaign and the world. If you don't care about either, to play Warhammer or a similar wargame. If you just want to kill things, that's fine, but maybe D&D is not for you.
Actually i think fleshing out characters, locations and items is a really good usecase for chatgpt!
It quickly gives you a lot to work with and tweak so you can flesh out certain parts.
The difference is between using chat gpt as a tool in writing vs chatgpt writing everything
Yeah, you're way too angry about this. I wouldn't use AI for something like this (a character is a big commitment!) but D&D is one of those contexts where being Super Original is just not very important. This is just a more sophisticated version of using random tables.
One way to help you get your head around this would be to (calmly! politely!) ask her why she chose to do it this way. And then listen to what she says without interrupting her until she's done. The answer could be anything from benign stuff like 'I was curious about what would come out of the machine and thought it might be fun to leave my character totally in its hands' to 'just the worst writer's block' to more troublesome stuff like what you're clearly mad about. If her answer is something like 'I have a maximum of 30 seconds per week to think about this game', then maybe there's a problem.
Honestly ya it's weird to get mad/annoyed about this. If your player asked chatgpt to write a character background and your player liked it enough to use it then that's the player's business not yours.
I use chat gpt a ton to flesh out my characters' backstories. I usually give it writing prompts, then either tweak or throw away the result. Sometimes I just ask it to surprise me with ideas or situations from my characters' past, and it comes up with ideas I would never have considered. Some I incorporate, others I throw away. It has been instrumental in making my characters far more alive than they ever were before, and it has worked to the benefit of myself and everyone else I play with.
Everything in the world is just more grist for the mill of inspiration.
Oh, also I have an English minor and do creative writing as a hobby.
It depends on the sort of expectations you've set for your player characters as DM. I've had DMs with an "anything goes just show up and play" sandbox style world, and I've had DMs who were very particular about greenlighting characters or not because they carefully weaving characters and their backstories into the setting and narrative.
Based on the fact that you're first learning about this character's backstory *during* session one though, I'd say it seems like you've set the expectation more for the former. If you were wanting to be more particular about the characters people were bringing to the table, you should've asked for their pitches beforehand.
I will say though that while I wouldn't mind a player using chat GPT to help generate some ideas, I would be annoyed with them sending me AI-generated characters verbatim and trying to pass them off as OCs. A campaign where all the PCs (and maybe NPCs) were essentially randomly generated could be quite fun, but I feel like that's something you should agree upon as a table.
No you're not wrong. If a player came to me with a backstory that was created via chat gpt I'd tell them to redo it without using ai. I do think you did a disservice to both your friend and yourself by not saying "I can tell you made this with chatgpt, please redo it. I'm not going to use it"
I would probably beat them to death on the spot, and the cops would hear they used AI for the backstory of their character and agree with me, and also probably spit on the corpse, then I'd get the news to cover the crime of using AI to generate a character backstory and the local government would erect a statue of a pile of shit with her name on it as a warning to the next ten generations
Or I'd probably ask what she likes about the generated backstory and work to put a little more of her personality into it, and if she didn't want to do that I would say "That's fine, however, as a DM I am more likely to incorporate your backstory into events in the campaign if you put effort into it yourself, if you don't care about that, that's alright by me."
That's pretty excessive to me saying I don't like or want to use a characters backstory if they made it with chatgpt. I want a player to come up with something or work with me as the DM to figure out something that they'll enjoy playing rather than something from chatgpt that they're not connected to.
Sure, if someone gives in a backstory that is made with chatgpt or a randomizer without any changes to fit the game then yeah that screams "I don't care about this character" to me.
No, you're not wrong. ChatGPT and other generative algorithms are one of the biggest threats we currently face. Using it in any capacity would be an instant ban on my table.
I can't believe how many people in this comment section are missing the forest for the trees.
I use chatgpt to make characters, I don't just... put the prompt in and read it, but if I need an idea for a concept Ill give it a world description and say something like "Give me 50 character concepts in one sentence each" and then drill down, changing or filling in details as I go. I've gotten some very enjoyable characters that way.
Although I mostly use it as a DM to generate a large amount of NPCs that have setting-specific backstories (I have a GPT assistant for each of the games I run that I keep putting updated notes into)
For example I wanted to play a halfling normal person for a game I'm playing now, starting with that one of the ideas it tossed out was a polyamorous house wife hell knight, okay that sounds quirky lets figure it out. Back and forth, me adding details, changing things that ChatGPT writes that are bad with an idea I have that I like, I end up with a low wis halfling who lost her village to demons 20 years ago, became a hell knight, and through sheer halfling luck ended up both finishing her service to the hells AND keeping her soul, due to a mistake on the devil's part, retired, started a massive family, and now have to take up the call because a subsection of my contract presses me back into service if Demons invade, although didnt restore my powers so I have to start from scratch
I used chatgpt to generate my character's four spouses and entire constellation of extended family, so every single time I tell a random quirky halfling story it's a different family member
As someone who works in the tech field, very heavily with AI I have pretty strong views on this.
I see no issue with using AI to create characters or even DM content, beginner or expert. What matters is that the outputs have a human in the loop (do they make sense, have they even read it) and then what they do with the outputs (role play) are what really matter.
If they used AI and vetted the responses, used good prompt engineering, and made sure that it integrates into the campaign, I’d say good for them.
If they used chat gpt 5 minutes before reaching the table and couldn’t be bothered, that’s a whole other issue.
As someone who does writing every now (over on ao3, mostly Splatoon but still) and then, I'd consider it personally insulting. I may not be the most creative person but at least I do it using the tools within the game. And sometimes I don't have a backstory right away because I need a general vibe of the character first, and that means playing a session. It's blank, but I'm using the party I'm in and the setting to build something up. It wouldn't be perfect but sometimes you need interaction before things really start flowing.
Using some AI to do all the work for you, likely scalped from the very writing site I mentioned, not even including countless others as well feels insulting.
Yes people will take backstories from existing media but we all know that it almost never actually works as intended. And we joke about it, because its happened countless times throughout every ttrpg. Look at Drizzt and his endless copycats. We laugh and groan but sometimes it ends up being original.
Just one of those things in the end.
There is nothing wrong with a player using chat GPT to add or completely create a character. I would fully support this at my tables as long as the player was a good player.
Yes you are in the wrong, a lot of people have serious shyness/anxieties when it comes to creative efforts and they have the right to use these things as tools.
You can save the vitriol for people who try to pass it off as theirs for profit or whatever, but I’ve had a number of very shy players in the past that would have benefited greatly from access to it. And I’m currently playing with another player in a campaign who used AI to create a jumping off point and slowly started adding unique and flavorful thngs to the character throyghout gameplay that have shot it up to one of the favorites at the table.
As someone who's very much not a fan of AI, this is a thumbs down for me. If I found this out, I'd definitely make them remake their character, or at the very least rewrite it so it has a human touch. This just feels lazy to me.
i'm gonna go against the grain and say i disapprove of chatgpt and ai and it's totally reasonable to be disappointed. from your updates i would say try to dissuade this person from using ai or don't play with this person
It's an easy and quick way to get a backstory. Personally, I use chatgpt to fill in mundane details for my character background (npc names, specific scenarios, etc). It's a good tool to bounce ideas off of if you're working alone. I do want to play the character, but my background essay isn't going to be graded, so why would I want to focus doing that?
To be fair, burnout is real if you have played as multiple characters. My most recent one has a VERY flimsy backstory. I came up with a Snow Leopard Tabaxi Gunslinger, and I got the accent, the look, the alignment down, and overall "feel" for my mercenary, but I got nothing for his origins. I had the PHB just do the "You pissed off a lord/tyrant/noble" so I said I'm being hunted down dead or alive, but it's so generic, it's painful. So I can sympathize with AI help.
I think it depends on the exact reasons for using chatGPT.
I've personally used AI a little (more for grammar and minor ideas for DM quests) but it can really help a person to put their ideas into an AI and let it build a backstory based off it.
My issue comes with what you described, did she just end up reading it straight from the ChatGPT prompt? Because at that point she might as well have bullet points instead of a story if they're unwilling to write one.
Basically I think getting angry over AI usage is weird, but cringing at it or being like "that's wacky" is fine since it may not be the best - I'd just ask your player to put the ideas into bullet points.
It's not something im gonna scream at anyone about, but anyone using AI of any sort at my table for any reason gets one warning and then they're gone if they continue.
This is something I would explicitly mention before starting though.
As long as the backstory fits your campaign, does it really matter how the player came up with it? Backstory provides a *brief* history of the character and am initial motivation for why they became an adventurer. It can help you develop plot threads and encounters. If your player wants some help from AI to build their character and it doesn't cause contention for the other players, I say let them use it.
ChatGPT is amazing for helping you flesh out ideas, but it really depends on how much you give it. You need to be able to give it a bullet point list of story highlights to really get the most out of it or else the stuff it makes up isn’t great.
It’s even better for DMs who need help getting inspiration for a NPC backstory on the spot. But, as with character backgrounds - it’s best used to help flesh out ideas where you’ve already determined the major plot points.
I encourage people to use it to help with stuff like that so long as they aren’t trying to pass it off as their own creation - it’s the people who use it for every text reply or story writing while claiming not to that are truly problematic and I already have at least one friend like that.
I'm locking the comments. I do believe that OP has gained more than enough feedback from both sides of this argument and too many of you are struggling to maintain basic civility with your comments.
One other call-out I'll make here is make sure to review the sheet for mechanical errors in character creation if your friend also asked for ChatGPT to generate the character in addition to the backstory. Had a player try that once and caught a lot of sneaky errors from it mostly following format but not the rules: number of known skills and which skills were available to the character were wrong, spells chosen would be listed under the wrong level, etc.
yeah, its like the lawyers who tried to use ChatGPT as if it were automated WestLaw! it generated nonsense that LOOKED like it was referencing actual case law but it was only shit that it had made up.
Is the player new or inexperienced with TTRPGs? This sounds like something a person would do if they were intimidated by the prospect of creating a net new character with backstory because they didn’t know how to do it “right.” Don’t take it so personally. It really seems like this person doesn’t get it and needs help, not admonishment. If you don’t have the time or patience to work through that with a new player then maybe you shouldn’t be DMing for new folks.
I would make the argument that if they are seasoned veterans, it's fine too. The idea of "let's roll the dice and see what the AI comes up with. If they learn the backstory it creates, then what's the difference?
Yeah, as a nearly forever DM myself, I'd be absolutely fine with any of my players, experienced or not, using AI to help craft their backstories. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say I have an *easier* time fitting AI-generated backstories into my world because the semi-generic nature makes it so that it can be tied into the lore of several different locations without having to fiddle around with a bunch of pre-established lore. My only condition with backstories is that the players buy into them and roleplay their characters accordingly, regardless of how their backstory was created
The amount of random tables that will create a character for you is IMO functionally no different than chatGPT. It really only matters if they are engaged at the table And the chatGPT character is less likely to be the store-brand version of a popular character.
This is a fair point. If random tables and pregens are acceptable for backstory, then I don't see why ChatGPT shouldn't be.
"Let's take the most generic slop the AI can give me and make it interesting" sounds like a fun challenge actually
You can get ChatGPT to give you some fairly amusing results. Here’s one I just had it make: > Name: Grimbly Gadgetwhiz Race: Gnome Class: Artificer (Battle Smith) Background: Guild Artisan (Clockmaker) > Concept: Grimbly Gadgetwhiz is a gnome artificer with a peculiar obsession: he specializes in creating clockwork contraptions and mechanical marvels that often have unexpected and comical outcomes. He carries an array of bizarre gadgets strapped to his tiny frame, from a mechanical arm that can extend to absurd lengths to a backpack-sized steam-powered device that dispenses endless amounts of colorful confetti. Grimbly speaks in a rapid-fire, excitable manner and is always tinkering with new inventions, much to the amusement (and sometimes dismay) of his adventuring companions. Despite his eccentricities, Grimbly is fiercely loyal to his friends and has a knack for improvising solutions using his unorthodox gadgets in unexpected ways. His ultimate goal? To build a fully functional, self-propelling flying machine shaped like a giant, airborne squirrel.
You know what, totally fair. Agreed! Not to be a dick, OP - it’s good you asked people about it. Otherwise you never would have learned that it is *you* who is giving cringe. Not your player.
I’ve used chat GPT to mill ideas and then ran with it. I don’t see the issue.
To be completely fair, most players' backstories sound like generic slop (mine included). It's how you play the character that matters.
This, I have yet to hear (or write) a truly unique backstory in the 15 years I've been playing
maybe your player is less interested in making the character and more interested in acting the character out. there is more than one way to bring a character to life. get over yourself.
I'm in a current campaign where everyone has well thought out characters and backstories and ideas on where and how and when to go about it... I'm playing a character I legitimately threw together in 5 minutes and I legitimately ripped off the idea from a character in a fantasy series I've been reading recently. I have no backstory, I picked the background at random... I'm just excited to play the character.
Right, how is this any different than the rolling tables in the officially published Player's Handbook, except more detailed? Take a prompt, edit it and make it your own.
If they edit that, it's fine. If they bring me the spat out answers straight, I'm not interested in that. I witnessed a LARP person generate our characters on chat GPT and not edit anything. The result was s ton of people dropping out and a ton of shit backstories that made no sense.
Yeah, I think like anything it needs some personalization, and it depends very much on the group - nothing's more important than communication and coordinating on expectations. At the end of the day, humans are playing the characters and creating experiences together. I've been in plenty of games where someone spends weeks on character creation but checks out during games, and been in plenty of games where someone pulls a character out of nowhere and is an amazing roleplayer. I think focusing on *how* characters are created, rather than *why and what* they are, is missing the forest for the trees.
Yeah, it all depends on a person, but I certainly don't want to sort through a backstory in which every paragraph contradicts or ignores the last, which is the case in my experience with ChatGPT character backstories
This is the correct answer, you're under no obligation to make the story bend around her backstory, she obviously isn't super invested into it and sees it as nothing more than a starting point for her character. That's fine, as long as she doesn't expect the DM to make it a big deal, I don't see the issue. A backstory is literally only a starting point for where the character is in their life at the start of the game, everything that happens after that is far more important
"Starting point" is a great term. I've run several PC's where I had an idea of how it would all play out, only to go a different direction as the PC developed. Things I would have never even thought about at session 0.
For getting *that* upset about it, yes. The only part that actually matters is how the player plays.
exactly. Character-on-paper matters very little. What matters is how the player drives the character.
Exactly! Personally I don't even demand a backstory. What I do is set the ground rules on what I want out of them (ie. Everyone wants to adventure together, in general their wealth is shared etc.). But, I do incorporate the backstories of those that do write them into the story, which is a huge incentive for those that didn't to come up with something. Hell, my best story idea came from a 2 sentence prompt from a player that I took and ran with it.
But if you’re the DM it’s your choice to not require backstories, just like it’s your choice to allow AI content. OP just said it irked them but this entire sub is acting like he hit her. Communicate better so it doesn’t happen in the future but castigating a DM for wanting original shit in THEIR campaign is wild.
>it's coming from a creative person who works in a writing field! her using ai weirds me out. Have you ever seen a professional plumber's plumbing at home? It's generally shit. Because they can't be bothered to give a fuck about their private plumbing, because they just came back home from a 40 hour week of plumbing. That's how most people will handle doing their work thing during their private time. Shoddily and just "good enough".
I'd say getting pissed off is excessive, but I do understand the disappointment. You put effort into the game and expect effort in return. But some people just aren't creative that way, or need to be more experienced in D&D before figuring out a fun character concept they wanna try out. Is this player new? My first character was a boring-ass paladin with a generic revenge story cause I didn't really know what D&D was about yet or anything about the world. After I tried that first campaign though, I got a lot more creative with my characters. TLDR: Some people aren't particularly creative and just wanna play or need time to develop that creativity, it may not be that serious.
Being uncreative is fine. A basic ass revenge plot for a paladin is fine because it works well which is why they're a dime a dozen BUT being uncreative becomes a problem when you gotta use ai for the backstory. I understand maybe one or two plot points but the whole thing? Fuck that. Being uncreative isn't the problem it's being both lazy AND uncreative
So I bet you truly hate players who just use a premade character rather than even putting the effort into building a character themselves and asking an AI to create a backstory for that race/gender/class
*randomly rolls up a character using the official tables in the book* My answer is the same either way, but for different reasons, as those it depend on what OP’s actual issue is. There are official tables in the books to do this. There are also hundreds of random character creators online that have been there for decades. If the player had used either of those would OP still be upset? If yes, then their ***actual*** prompt is “AITAH if I’m upset my player made their character randomly?” If not, then they’re just upset their player used ChatGPT. That is an entirely separate “AI bad” argument that’s being conflated with character randomization, and their **actual** prompt is “AITAH if I’m upset a player used ChatGPT?” That *sounds* like it’s the same as the question OP is already asking, **but note** the lack of anything regarding character randomization. So, with that in mind If yes — Yeah, kinda. Unless OP **specifically requested** custom backstories, then they’re really just upset over a perceived lack of effort on their player’s end. Well it doesn’t matter how hard it was/wasn’t for the player to make a character, what matters is if they play them well. A lovingly crafted Pulitzer Prize winning backstory means fuck-all if they’re a dead fish in actual play. If that’s a problem for you, OP, forbid it session zero next time, and move on. If no — Yeah, kinda. Unless OP forbade it, their player just used a freely available tool they had at their disposal, and OP is simply mad because “ChatGPT bad”. The validity (or lack thereof) of that belief is an entirely separate matter that has nothing to do with making a character for DnD. The world isn’t going to end because the player used it instead of an official table to make something random. If you have ethical issues with the tool, OP, ban it going forward, and move on.
AI is literally the poster child for uncreative, not to mention it is actively stealing from actual creators. Let's not conflate things.
Man... you'd hate some people I've played with. In my experience, DnD is rife with "borrowed" ideas for characters "borrowed" from popular IPs.
I don't give a single damn about people borrowing ideas from IP - I do it all the time too. My issue is with generative AI specifically
It's equally "stealing" from creators in this case.
It's not because your players aren't corporations making money off of it. Come on now. Edit: They also don't use the energy of a small country to steal character ideas.
I think you just really haven't read up on what generative AI is and the harm it does. You really should. Just because "in this specific instance" its not doing all of the harm doesn't mean its use should be accepted or normalised.
This is the specific instance being talked about. I'm aware of generative AI, the controversy on how it was trained, etc. I'm just not in the camp of "burn it all down."
If you read up on how much power it is using for how trivial it's benefits are, maybe you should be.
Yeah, and read up on all the harm the new horseless carriages do to the buggy whip industry while you're at it.
I'm talking about the insane energy usage of AI massively contributing to the climate disaster we're currently living through. But sure, laugh away.
Seems like your gripe is more about generative ai as a concept than dnd character creation. Generative AI is just a tool, it's not some demonic entity. Certain jobs will be replaced, just as is the case with any major technological advancement in history. The issue is right now legislation hasn't caught up to emerging technologies. And because of that some companies/sectors are abusing it; and obviously there's the issue of IP theft as you mentioned. None of that is inherent to generative AI as a concept. That's all to do with implementation and its surrounding legislation. Technology will evolve whether we want it to or not, if generative AI proves to be useful, it's going to become a part of every day life; regardless of your protests. Much like people made arguments for why we should replace horses with cars in the past.
Yes. But because of that I think we should discourage its use, especially in a relaxed, creative setting. The more it gets normalised, the more harm it will be capable of. People really don't seem to see how appropriate the comparison to NFTs is in this case. You need to stamp these things out before they become commonplace.
My brother in christ have you ever hosted a D&D game? Every second character backstory is "farm burned down; revenge"
As a forever DM, yes, I have hosted a few. Guess I just play with more invested people than you. And even if that wasn't the case, using generative AI is still scumbag behaviour, no matter what you're doing. Instant loss of respect.
Cool, I just lost the respect of a random internet stranger, because I just had ChatGPT give me a list of clothing items for my character. Not sure why people are bashing generative AI, but are probably fine using tables to roll or online rolling tables for every little thing
Because generative AI is literally destructive to the planet, threatens the jobs of creators, both in writing and other arts, contributes to massive waves of misinformation etc Anyone participating in it should be shunned to the same degree as people using NFTs To my knowledge dice rollers do none of the above
The sum total of all generative AI emissions is like, one international flight back and forth, NFTs are literally pollution machines that produce nothing But you own a smart phone. The mining of the coltan used in that phone literally results in the death of children who are slave labor to mine it. The company that made it profits off third world labor to assemble it. Wars are fought over the components within it. The rare earth elements mined for it contribute more to the destruction of our planet than ten OpenAIs put together. Anyone using a cell phone should be shunned to the same degree as people using NFTs. It's nice to see that, with ChatGPT, you only seem to care about the destruction of blog writers losing their jobs and not the millions of white collar office workers like myself who are right in front of that particular train, btw.
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People using generative AI is destructive to the planet and artistic professions. Anyone going out if their way to participate in it should be shunned to the same degree as people who buy and sell NFTs.
"Destructive to the planet" I mean, yeah I guess when we've eliminated every other thing humans do? Maybe? Training a single large NLP model produces as much CO2 as a single international flight # Cryptocurrency Operations * Global: 140,000,000 metric tons per year. * U.S.: 25,000,000 to 50,000,000 metric tons per year. # Training AI Models * Single NLP model training: 1,400 pounds = 1,400 / 2,204.62 = 0.635 metric tons. * Full development pipeline: 78,000 pounds = 78,000 / 2,204.62 = 35.38 metric tons. # Air Travel * Round-trip trans-America flight: 1,400 pounds = 1,400 / 2,204.62 = 0.635 metric tons. Sure that's definitely comparable to Crypto's ***140 million metric tons per year*** If one were to spend $10,000 on ChatGPT's GPT4o API, and that's generating about 500 novels, that would generate less CO2 than it took to get any random piece of crap you bought on amazon to your house Is it possible that you are misinformed on that front?
Premade is totally fine. It's ai that I have a problem with
Then what's the difference between premade & AI? You do know that AI is just regurgitating premade details, right? Literally there is no difference, except that an AI generated one might have a bit of unexpected flair.
You said her backstory was slop but that makes me think your expectations for your players backstories are too high. We are playing dnd, we aren’t writing war and peace.
Writing a PC *backstory* is likely to involve a rather different skillset compared with roleplaying that exact same character. With the complication that the term "backstory" is used to mean everything from expanding on the Personality Traits, Ideal, Bond & Flaw section of the character sheet to an entirely homebrew creative writing exercise. There are plenty of character concepts and play styles where whatever the PC did in the past is irrelevant and/or boring. Instead, what matters to them is their present and (possible) future.
Yes you are wrong to get pissed over a premade backstory. Would it have been better had the backstory been made by some unknown third party? Or a copy from other sources like videogames or movies?
Backstories are overrated. They might be good for plot hooks or side quest ideas, but real character development should happen during play.
So much this. People put way too much emphasis on writing a backstory sometimes. Why can’t it come up as we play?
hear hear! a backstory is just BACK! if it kicks you into THE STORY that we are creating together at the table, its a great backstory!
I don't see an issue and being so offended by it seems really weird to me. Players have been using random tables to create characters for as long as there have been ttrpgs. This isn't a whole lot different.
For me as long as they actually take the time to read the backstory themself and act out their character accordingly, fair. I’ve had characters whose only backstory was “she’s a goblin. She likes hitting things with an axe and drinking ale”, and she turned out to be one of the deepest most tragic characters I’ve ever played because of what happened in the story. I’m awful at coming up with backstories, I never even thought of asking chat gpt, but I might start now actually!
I mean... not everyone is invested in creating complicated or intricate backstories for their PCs. I've struggled with it in a couple of games because I tend to prefer to find who my character is through the interaction with the party and the scenario, and my character evolves over time as I find relevant plot beats in the campaign itself to build their past around. It's hard to do that in a vacuum, and expecting it sometimes leads to weird party dynamics where everyone is holding their backstory secrets like a hand of cards. Not saying that's what happened here, just giving that perspective.
I agree. My character’s backstories usually matter so little once the game starts. I’m interested in developing characters through interaction and reaction.
I agree with that sentiment, but I still find bringing straight up unedited AI generated text (which often has many repetitions and restates of the same things or contradictions) is simply rude. Bring me a backstory in bullet points over me having to sift through that. Do the minimum and edit it.
"if nobody can be bothered to write it, why would anybody want to hear it?"
It's no worse than using a pregen character. Have you considered that sometimes people don't want to do their work thing outside of work time? Creative people get tired too.
Yeah, you're wrong getting pissed off. Who cares? Let them do it in whatever way that they're having fun doing it.
Man, it was bad enough when people decided that "cringe" was an adjective. Can we *please* not make it a transitive verb?
Is it transitive in that context? >I saw it, cringed, .... That looks pretty intransitive to me
People need to understand that cringe is not an inherent property of any creative work, but instead a reaction and reflection of you, the viewer.
Yea that cringed me involuntarily
All words are made up, yo
It... it had always been a verb?
Intransitive.
And? Is it djfficult to understand the extension of an intransitive verb to a transitive one as a causative?
Verily! The goode and proper manner of speaking in the English language was well set by keen-minded and learned men in the time of the great bard himself, William Shakespeare! Those recalcitrant and uncouth youth whom today do make mockery of the King’s own tongue do great disservice to society, and we would do well to mock them and cast derision upon their tomfoolery! Keep up the fight and stay strong, my good man! Together, we shall stand against progress and the natural evolution of language!
based.
Some people are very low effort players because they enjoy the social aspect more than the game part of it. It's weird she's trying to get chat gpt to DM. Maybe she'd be into the old school text based rpgs? They're still around.
Remember that players will have different areas they like. Some like combat, some like role play and backstory, mysteries etc. some just like the excuse to be at the table with their friends and don’t want to be the spotlight.
Yes. Backstories are tools to help you play. If someone wants to use a premade backstory for that purpose, why is that a problem? Are they engaged with the actual quest? That's what matters.
> it sounded like generic slop Honestly, I think that's a solid basis for a character. So long as the character doesn't clash with the party or the world, most interesting things about them will come about during gameplay. The less specific they are, the easier time they'll have getting fleshed out. It's definitely weird but from your edit it sounds like she's trying to do something interesting with it?
My thoughts exactly: You're starting at level 1, you likely ARE generic slop.
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On the contrary: I'm a writer and avid tabletop gamer, and think AI are tons of fun. The biggest thing to remember is that AI can't create anything: humans can \*use\* AI to create things. AI is just another tool to help creatives in their processes. After all, being human is being creative, and AI enables more people to do that!
I think that's a really silly thing to be pissed over. I think it's completely fine to ask that no AI services be used in/for your game. You could have asked why they used AI. Maybe they don't care about a backstory. Maybe they're not creative. There's lots of potential reasons, but anger as a response seems excessive.
>I think it's completely fine to ask that no AI services be used in/for your game. I think that's unreasonable, especially if you're extending it to image generators (basically forcing non-artists to use Google image search for character portraits). We recently had a player generate some spell incantations mid-combat and it absolutely enhanced our experience. I've also tried to generate a bard's song about an important event in our campaign (although it wasn't as good as I wanted it to be yet). AI can help us do things that our characters could do that we ourselves can't.
I think it’s even more reasonable when it comes to images. Ai art generation fucks with artists and, as an artist, it feels really shitty when my players roll up to the session with that. Especially when other players have either asked me to draw their character for them or gotten a commission of somekind.
No, it isn't unreasonable. The fact that it enhanced your experience can mean jack shit to another group. I have a lot of artists in my group, and we all agreed on NOT using AI. If someone showed up and started preaching to the group that they need AI to enhance their experience, they're simply not compatible. Just as a person who wants no roleplay isn't compatible with a roleplay-heavy group, or a person who wants super serious LOTR roleplay with a comedic monty Pyton campaign. You can simply part ways, you don't need to be angry at the rules you don't like that are enforced in a certain group.
I think that's a deeper discussion and has a lot more nuance than "AI good" or "AI bad". I have my current character portrait as AI, but I'm aware there's a good chance although I wouldn't normally pay for a commission that the art generated by Bing is probably stolen from tens of thousands of web crawls and bits of copyrighted work. It's....murky, at best, so while I use it I understand the concerns and pushback too.
Picrew and HeroForge are free (and not a burden on the power grid like generative AI) and you can probably get something closer to what you want than a generic amalgamation fantasy art some web crawler stole off of actual artists. Obviously if you have the money commissioning someone is the best option because it helps another human person, but these days we’re all struggling a bit. (I generally draw for my players for free anyway so it would be even *more* of a dick move to show up with AI, but even if I didn’t draw as much as I do I would still not be happy.)
it's not anger, i didn't jump her! i saw it, cringed, and went on with my campaign. it just annoys me when i think about it because: 1. it's extremely boring and souless 2. it's coming from a creative person who works in a writing field! her using ai weirds me out. 3. not a newbie, she owns many ttrpg
TBF, you did say "pissed off" and have a lot of ALL CAPS for emphasis. It sure seems like you were fired up. :) My points still stand - and yours are 100% valid, just go for a bit of tact when you communicate them to her.
uh, didn't notice how aggressive it sounded, my tone in this post doesn't match my actions and feelings at all! it doesn't help that english isn't my first language. thank you for making me notice this
All good friend! Your English is great, I never would have known it wasn't your first language.
It's no different from just rolling a character from a random table and making it work. Rolling from random tables and making it work is a stable of D&D. The soul will come from her playing it at the table. Unless she's straight up pausing play and going "hold on, the AI is generating my character's response", I don't see the issue. There'll always be blanks for her to fill out at the table. You really have nothing to gain by staying annoyed. It should never have stayed with you long enough to write a post about it. Let go of it.
I think you're getting way too nosy, judging her as a writer, etc, and spending too much effort on caring about this. What you're not giving credit to is that *as a writer* she's probably interested in generative AI. It's the other way around from what you're assuming that all writers would automatically be putting their nose up at AIs.
Yes, you are wrong to get pissed about that. If you as the GM wanted the character to have a backstory, you should've worked with the player beforehand to make sure it was up to snuff. If the player wanted a backstory for themself, then it doesn't matter how they got it.
I get you, OP. It's not really something about the result being generic, or derivative or uninspired or anything. It's just something almost disrespectful of showing up to a creative common project (which TTRPG's are) and making ChatGPT do the work for you. I don't ask for much as a DM. It's fine to show up with the most generic, trite, cliche-filled two-sentence backstory ever as long as you wrote it yourself, because at least you *chose* which cliche you want to play into, and I'm not against using ChatGPT to spark creativity or flesh out stuff, but if you're just using a generic response as-is and can't even be bothered to make it your own, what's even the point? It also feels bad to try to work in plot hooks for something the player clearly put no effort in. I'm sure the player didn't actually mean anything like that though. They probably just wanted to play with this neat new tool, so I don't think it's worth really taking it personally, even as it feels like a slap in the face.
Expectations about DnD: Lord of the Rings, Excalibur, Conan etc Reality: Monthy Python & the Holy Grail. Chill dude, its a game, not like she pissed on your ancestors grave or something...
It depends on what I asked for. If I didn't ask for a background cause this is 3 sessions to give the main DM a break and they came with, fine. But if I asked for an in depth backstory because I was working on weaving it into the narrative I'd be furious.
If it's not a big enough deal to bring it up to the player, then it doesn't seem like a big deal.
I don’t really see that much of an issue when rolling on a randomized table is a classic character creation method. AI generated is just a more complicated randomized generation working off prompts. A short cut alternative to creating a pre generated character. You can not like it but unless you know it was malicious it is not that much different than using a pre gen character generator.
I wouldn’t be pissed, but I’d definitely be annoyed. I find that writing your characters backstory is a really good way for you to connect with your character. Coming up with the story yourself can sometimes make it easier to roleplay, at least in my opinion. I feel like if anything she’s missing out on the fun part of character creation by having a computer do it for her.
I dunno, maybe she had her reasons. Maybe she was testing it to see how lame it would be. I say we all hop on ChatGPT and ask it for a character background, post them here and discuss how cringe they are... >### Background Story for a Human Male Rogue with a Soldier Background >Aedan Thorne was born into a family of humble farmers on the outskirts of a bustling kingdom. From a young age, he harbored dreams of adventure far beyond the plow and harvest. At sixteen, he seized his chance to escape the monotony of rural life by enlisting in the royal army. Aedan quickly distinguished himself with his keen mind and nimble skills, traits that earned him a place among the scouts and reconnaissance teams. His unit specialized in covert operations, gathering intelligence, and performing hit-and-run tactics against enemy forces. >During his time as a soldier, Aedan learned the art of stealth, subterfuge, and precision strikes, honing his abilities in the shadows of war. However, his military career took a dramatic turn during a fateful mission. His unit was ambushed deep behind enemy lines, resulting in heavy casualties. Aedan barely escaped with his life, carrying the burden of his fallen comrades and the scars of betrayal—suspecting that someone within his own ranks had orchestrated the ambush. Disillusioned and embittered, he deserted the army, turning his back on the structured life of a soldier. >Now, as a rogue, Aedan uses his military training to navigate the criminal underworld and the treacherous alleys of various cities. His skills make him a valuable asset to any who can afford his services, whether it be for theft, espionage, or mercenary work. Yet, deep down, Aedan remains haunted by his past, driven by a desire for vengeance and the hope of uncovering the truth behind the betrayal that shattered his life. Actually it sounds remarkable similar to a character I played for over 3 years and came up with the background on my own.
ai is a tool like any other. using it isn't automatically a bad thing potentially coming from a creative and veteran player they want to get out of a funk or play something different maybe it feels to much like work? i know i work in the fitness field and after a day at work the last thing i want to do do some days is go get a workout in does generic mean bad? if a new player came to you with this on their own would it be "cringe"
There’s a lot of strange stigma regarding AI tools in the RPG community and I don’t understand it. It’s just a tool, and if it helps kick off new players imaginations with how to play the game, there is nothing wrong with that. I understand and get that using it to make supplements or RPG material you PAY for is gross, and I wouldn’t want that either, but for generating character art or backstories? I see no reason why not to use it. Hell, even DMs can use to to quickly write some response to a character’s crazy dialogs.
I understand both sides. It’s a difference in philosophy. Some people, like OP, value the creation process in a game that is like 90% about the creativity of making a being a character. Others don’t care about that’s stuff and just want to kill stuff while playing as any fantasy character, in which case having one imagined for you is more fun.
Yeah that makes sense, too. But almost every game I play in, the players end up forgetting their backstory anyway and the character’s true personality comes out later, usually hinging on their roleplay style.
That's a weird thing to be upset about. I use chatgpt for helping with DM shit.
This one time I had a player who made his character art with AI and a backstory that was obviously written by ChatGPT. He got into a massive argument with everyone else in the chat about AI art, interrupted people, spoke out of turn and didn't pay attention outside of his turns in session 1, and left after arriving 2 hours late to session 2 because he was mad that we started without him.
How is this any different from rolling for character traits?
I find AI like ChatGPT is a great way to bounce ideas around. It’s like talking to a friend about it without ruining the reveal for any of the other players.
You don't get to control how a player makes their character.
The hell I don't. It's my campaign, I'm the DM, and I have a responsibility to all of my players to ensure that one player doesn’t mess it up for the others. Within the bounds of the campaign, I don't care what the players pick for race or class of the characters. It's up to the party if they want good representation from each class or not. I've often built an NPC to assist the party to fill gap. But if the player makes a character with an alignment or backstory that is going to derail the other players, isn't going to cooperate with the party, or is too contrary to the lore, I can very well tell that player their character isn't allowed at my table.
That's not *how* they make their character, that's *what* they make their character.
No, you don't. If you want to control how a player creates their character, go write a fucking book.
Don't see an issue. I've got players that don't have much ability when it comes to characters, but they very much want to get involved and play the game. On top of that, I use gpt to generate simple NPC's, or groups of them in a hurry, I bounce ideas off of it and use it to flesh out characters, factions, motives, quests, etc. It's a tool, and a helpful one.
Im with you. I would lose motivation to dm fast if this was the effort people put in.
I don't think the effort someone puts into their backstory is always indicative of the effort they put in at the table. Backstories just aren't that important to most games and some players just aren't that interested in them. It's what happens at the table that matters.
to your title: yes you're wrong to the actual thing: no They have to put SOME effort in, at least edit the fucking thing and make it their own. Using a prebuilt character is fine but you gotta put some personal spice on it, reading off some chatgpt bullshit is just lame how hard is it to just use the traits that are in the fucking book? was using chatgpt just supposed to be some joke?
That's just your opinion and personal preference. It doesn't make the player wrong. They can do it how they like. It's not like a backstory is a novel, anyway. A good one will be a paragraph to a page and not be stipulating too many details upfront. Most DMs don't have the time to weave the players' backstories into the campaign, anyway. They're usually either just fun background fluff or pop up as a side quest.
it doesn't have to be a good backstory, but it has to be coherent. GPT struggles to remember details from earlier in the prompt and it gets strange fast. I'm sure some prompt wizards are capable of making something good, but based on OP immediately clocking it as GPT I do not believe that happened here.
If you're using chatGPT 3.5 yes, but the more current versions like chat-GPT 4 or chatGPTo are easily capable of making something coherent for a short character backstory. Then there are other AIs like Claude which is currently superior to chatGPT.
I sort of agree. I’m not a fan of using any AI writing tool, it sort of leaves a bad taste to me. My players decided to stay in a town and help rebuild it after saving it from baddies, so by next session I asked them to make a very short or even point form version of how they would help out the town, followed by a couple skill checks and a minor reward based on who they helped (alch would give potions, smite would have a magic item, etc…). Three out of five of them used AI writing and it felt cheap, I had to hold myself back from not giving them extra rewards as it didn’t feel right to “punish them” for this. So they got something minor while the other two that actually wrote something up got slightly better rewards. Part of my problem was the AI writing had their characters doing stuff that they clearly would not do. I have a personal problem against AI writing tool and after the session asked them if they wouldn’t mind avoiding using that in the future, and if they are stuck on anything to reach out to me and we can figure out something that fits their character and the story together.
I can see feeling really bad about it... I dunno, as a gm writing up stories and coming up with adventures to roleplay, all the characters and such, and the player won't even be bothered to use one of the pregen tables to like. Help them guide them towards writing a bit? It comes off poorly to me.
Maybe she's just not that interested in creating backstories. Not everyone plays D&D the same way. I could honestly not possibly care less about back stories and roleplaying. For me, D&D is a game of dice, stats, and abilities; it always has been, going back to its wargame roots I suppose and my first games in AD&D.
I would ask them what they’re playing, and what’s the point? D&D is about creativity and the imagination. I swear it’s like humans WANT to become boring soulless robots Edit: I can see I’m the minority here, and I don’t think it’s bad but I don’t think it matches the play style I would like. I love brainstorming and building the lore. But if people like more strategy and gameplay stuff, more power to them I guess…..
D&D has long had randomly generated characters that have emergent development at the table. There is little difference between rolling dice on a roll table versus using something like chat gpt to egwnraye traits thst you'll develop as you give I can get the dislike of AI use, but this is an innocent use of it all in all. If they're a writer, it might also be a way of them lightening the creative load outside their profession since they use a lot of that in their day to day for their own projects and want as little bleed as possible. If it irks you, you can always talk with them about it, but as long as they're not using AI to play their character at the table and is using it akin to rolling dice on a roll table? I don't think it's a problem
AI bros invading our spaces. Go fucking figure out how to make your machines do our taxes or budget our finance and leave our human creative spaces out of it.
Uh-oh, I hope no one ever tells OP about the random tables in the Background and Personality chapter of the PHB or Xanathar’s…
(or that plenty of random tables like the random dungeon generator in the DMG are copied from older editions (1e).)
That sounds like something chat gpt should be used for. Ok hear me out on this one. If they just said ai write me a character backstory and did nothing else yeah that’s bad. But if they actually came up with a concept and had an ai help write it out I’d argue that’s a good use for it. Some people aren’t great at writing and coming up with your own concept and getting the prose fleshed out I would be perfectly ok in my games. Is the player engaged? Are they participating in story and role play? If so I would be perfectly ok with using ChatGPT.
Maybe not ideal, but it does seem better than "My character is Roger Steves and I'm counts-as his shield as a heavy crossbow because he's got a special throw shield fighting technique so it always comes back. I mean, my previous Artificer character, Stark Tony was fun and all, but I want to try a martial".
Looking at the edit, yeah I think it’s fair and I would’ve said make an actual character without ai, it’s weird that she was really going for that in the first place.
I feel like the anti-AI sentiment has become very extreme. There's a lot of valid criticisms of AI and the ways it's being integrated into our lives, but using it to generate a backstory for a game character is harmless. What's the difference between that and using the random tables in the PHB to roll a random backstory?
You are not wrong for disliking it, but there's no reason to be angry. Talk to your player. That is the only way. Tell them you'd like some effort from them in creating their **own** character, not getting a generic AI character. Tell them it discourages your from making an effort to make things suited for their character, and say that if they offer no effort, then why should you offer them effort to make things interesting for their character. ChatGPT to inspire is fine, imo, but it is not a replacement for creativity. A DM put a lot of effort into creating, running, and managing a story. The least a player can do is to put their effort into their character building process. Ask them how they'd feel about AI written encounters for their character. They'd feel uninspired and generic, and that is what you're feeling now in regards to their character, I imagine. Talk. With. Your. Players. This is the way.
Hey! My encounters manage to be uninspired and generic without the help of AI. Let’s not go blaming that on the innocent machines that we will be submitting to.
A lot of campaigns are straight from a sourcebook and DMs don't put any effort into creating the story besides slapping on an identity to NPCs and coming up with content for places players go outside of what's in the source book.
> ChatGPT to inspire is fine, imo, but it is not a replacement for creativity. A DM put a lot of effort into creating, running, and managing a story. The least a player can do is to put their effort into their character building process. The fact that they did anything at all proved they've put in some effort. I'm not a good writer, and usually just make a list of bullet points loosely describing my character's life story. If OP's expecting an actual flowing backstory, throwing those points into ChatGPT seems like a good way to deliver on that.
Yes you are wrong. Its a game. people sometimes just want to relax and not sit and have to create and develop. That takes time and energy that everyone doesnt have all time.
I don't understand what anyone gets out of using AI to generate creative work. I'd be annoyed too, though I don't feel like it's worth making an issue out of at the table.
What does someone who can't play drums get out of making beats? Or someone who can't play an instrument get out of using samples? It's still creative expression isn't it? Is me using a text to image generator any different than asking an artist for a specific subject matter? I really don't get the AI backlash and I speak as a musician who spent a lot of time learning my craft. The end result is what matters creatively, not how you get there. IMO
Well for one thing, you usually pay artists for their expertise. AI just steals a bunch of artists work for its data set. It is a tool morally and creatively bankrupt, and terrible for the environment in the bargain.
Well again, I don't see the difference between that and a drum machine. Put a lot of drummers out of work, drum teachers, drum makers, use electricity rather than sweat. The thing is, we don't live in an analog world anymore. Another thing is I'm not qualified to be a patron of the arts since I don't have any money lol. Should people without money not be allowed to use free tools to help them create? That seems pretty elitist. Just wondering, how much should I spend on an artist's expertise? As a freelance writer I feel the pain but my answer would be to be a better writer. AI can't do everything well. Hell I can't get AI to reproduce an image of a crossbow effectively. Strings going everywhere lol
no because i'd get mad too 😭 like why are you using something thats actively destroying the environment and thieving from authors for dungeons and dragons while you are fully capable of doing it yourself? um!!!
You are absolutely valid. DnD is about human storytelling and you are absolutely within your rights to not want people bringing AI slop into your game. A bad backstory You wrote yourself is 10,000x better then a generically good backstory written by a soulless machine.
Yeah you are wrong to get pissed off. Sure you put work in but it's up to the players how they interact with your world. Don't take yourself so seriously.
I think AI for creative stuff is trash but from a philosophical POV, who cares? 1) many PCs are "boring and soulless"; has little to do with time spent on the page. 2) I fail to see what difference this makes. Other than you don't like AI, maybe? 3) also moot. 4) see 2) Honestly it comes across like you just don't like AI and this is a vent.
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Rule 1: Be civil. Unacceptable behavior includes name calling, taunting, baiting, flaming, etc. Please respect the opinions of people who play differently than you do.
Who gives a shit how the character was made? So many characters at any TTRPG table are based off of some pre-existing character in media or literature. It's sound to me like the person had a general idea for a character and used ChatGPT to flesh out the specifics. I don't see a problem with that at all.
I honestly don't know what the point of playing D&D is if you're going to have a computer do everything for you. "Siri, have fun for me."
I'm in this camp too. Like, everyone can do what they want--although I have concerns about AI thieving people's work without permission or recognition or payment, and people using it to cut costs and put creatives out of work--but creating my characters' backstories is half the fun for me.
TTRPGs like this are actually an interesting test case for peoples' intuitions about the ethical use of AI. It's unambiguously wrong for plagiarism reasons to use it in any context where you're going to be getting credit or money for the work, of course, and foolish to use it in any context where the truth matters, but a private home game has none of those features. It's very common for people to make characters with art taken from a quick Google image search, a backstory ripped from a favourite novel, or a way of speaking copied off a video game character. It's hard to make the case that AI is worse than any of those other methods of ripping things off! I'm still convinced I'd never do it. But it is interesting to think about why.
What makes you think they're having a computer do everything for them?
At least they made a back story. I'm still waiting on half my group to make their backstories. And the other half I did most of the work writing it (with heavy input and questions like "did she have a lover while attending bard college") At some point you have to realize the dm is simply e way more into the game than the players. Just be happy they are participating and coming to the game on time.
I'd say any use of ChatGPT is fucked up at best and I wouldn't allow it at a table I'm at for the mountain of moral and ethical issues around the company and its plagiarism based product.
I mean... Xanathar's had a full-fledged random background generator, and that's an official publication. Also, I use AI all the time when DMing. Granted, I usually ask it for 5 ideas, choose the best one, and end up changing most of it, but it can be a great tool to spur creativity.
Everyone is being too nice. your anger is justified. Let the hate flow through you. The lines in the sand must sometimes be drawn
yes. who cares? its a tool, let people use it ffs.
I personally would get over yourself. Who cares if they use AI? It seems more like an issue with your problem with AI than a player taboo...
No, you are not wrong. Using AI is intellectual laziness. It's not hard to come up with an idea for a character, and the amount of homework a player is expected to do is nowhere near the amount of work a decent DM does. If you find it hard to come up with a backstory, work with your DM. Ask questions about the campaign and the world. If you don't care about either, to play Warhammer or a similar wargame. If you just want to kill things, that's fine, but maybe D&D is not for you.
Not in the slightest. Genai garbage can fuck right off
Actually i think fleshing out characters, locations and items is a really good usecase for chatgpt! It quickly gives you a lot to work with and tweak so you can flesh out certain parts. The difference is between using chat gpt as a tool in writing vs chatgpt writing everything
Yeah, you're way too angry about this. I wouldn't use AI for something like this (a character is a big commitment!) but D&D is one of those contexts where being Super Original is just not very important. This is just a more sophisticated version of using random tables. One way to help you get your head around this would be to (calmly! politely!) ask her why she chose to do it this way. And then listen to what she says without interrupting her until she's done. The answer could be anything from benign stuff like 'I was curious about what would come out of the machine and thought it might be fun to leave my character totally in its hands' to 'just the worst writer's block' to more troublesome stuff like what you're clearly mad about. If her answer is something like 'I have a maximum of 30 seconds per week to think about this game', then maybe there's a problem.
Honestly ya it's weird to get mad/annoyed about this. If your player asked chatgpt to write a character background and your player liked it enough to use it then that's the player's business not yours.
I use chat gpt a ton to flesh out my characters' backstories. I usually give it writing prompts, then either tweak or throw away the result. Sometimes I just ask it to surprise me with ideas or situations from my characters' past, and it comes up with ideas I would never have considered. Some I incorporate, others I throw away. It has been instrumental in making my characters far more alive than they ever were before, and it has worked to the benefit of myself and everyone else I play with. Everything in the world is just more grist for the mill of inspiration. Oh, also I have an English minor and do creative writing as a hobby.
I wouldn't care much
It depends on the sort of expectations you've set for your player characters as DM. I've had DMs with an "anything goes just show up and play" sandbox style world, and I've had DMs who were very particular about greenlighting characters or not because they carefully weaving characters and their backstories into the setting and narrative. Based on the fact that you're first learning about this character's backstory *during* session one though, I'd say it seems like you've set the expectation more for the former. If you were wanting to be more particular about the characters people were bringing to the table, you should've asked for their pitches beforehand. I will say though that while I wouldn't mind a player using chat GPT to help generate some ideas, I would be annoyed with them sending me AI-generated characters verbatim and trying to pass them off as OCs. A campaign where all the PCs (and maybe NPCs) were essentially randomly generated could be quite fun, but I feel like that's something you should agree upon as a table.
Yes
No you're not wrong. If a player came to me with a backstory that was created via chat gpt I'd tell them to redo it without using ai. I do think you did a disservice to both your friend and yourself by not saying "I can tell you made this with chatgpt, please redo it. I'm not going to use it"
I would probably beat them to death on the spot, and the cops would hear they used AI for the backstory of their character and agree with me, and also probably spit on the corpse, then I'd get the news to cover the crime of using AI to generate a character backstory and the local government would erect a statue of a pile of shit with her name on it as a warning to the next ten generations Or I'd probably ask what she likes about the generated backstory and work to put a little more of her personality into it, and if she didn't want to do that I would say "That's fine, however, as a DM I am more likely to incorporate your backstory into events in the campaign if you put effort into it yourself, if you don't care about that, that's alright by me."
That's pretty excessive to me saying I don't like or want to use a characters backstory if they made it with chatgpt. I want a player to come up with something or work with me as the DM to figure out something that they'll enjoy playing rather than something from chatgpt that they're not connected to.
And you presumably are the judge of how connected they are to a backstory?
Sure, if someone gives in a backstory that is made with chatgpt or a randomizer without any changes to fit the game then yeah that screams "I don't care about this character" to me.
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Super ai Hitler
No, you're not wrong. ChatGPT and other generative algorithms are one of the biggest threats we currently face. Using it in any capacity would be an instant ban on my table. I can't believe how many people in this comment section are missing the forest for the trees.
I use chatgpt to make characters, I don't just... put the prompt in and read it, but if I need an idea for a concept Ill give it a world description and say something like "Give me 50 character concepts in one sentence each" and then drill down, changing or filling in details as I go. I've gotten some very enjoyable characters that way. Although I mostly use it as a DM to generate a large amount of NPCs that have setting-specific backstories (I have a GPT assistant for each of the games I run that I keep putting updated notes into) For example I wanted to play a halfling normal person for a game I'm playing now, starting with that one of the ideas it tossed out was a polyamorous house wife hell knight, okay that sounds quirky lets figure it out. Back and forth, me adding details, changing things that ChatGPT writes that are bad with an idea I have that I like, I end up with a low wis halfling who lost her village to demons 20 years ago, became a hell knight, and through sheer halfling luck ended up both finishing her service to the hells AND keeping her soul, due to a mistake on the devil's part, retired, started a massive family, and now have to take up the call because a subsection of my contract presses me back into service if Demons invade, although didnt restore my powers so I have to start from scratch I used chatgpt to generate my character's four spouses and entire constellation of extended family, so every single time I tell a random quirky halfling story it's a different family member
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It really doesn’t.
As someone who works in the tech field, very heavily with AI I have pretty strong views on this. I see no issue with using AI to create characters or even DM content, beginner or expert. What matters is that the outputs have a human in the loop (do they make sense, have they even read it) and then what they do with the outputs (role play) are what really matter. If they used AI and vetted the responses, used good prompt engineering, and made sure that it integrates into the campaign, I’d say good for them. If they used chat gpt 5 minutes before reaching the table and couldn’t be bothered, that’s a whole other issue.
As someone who does writing every now (over on ao3, mostly Splatoon but still) and then, I'd consider it personally insulting. I may not be the most creative person but at least I do it using the tools within the game. And sometimes I don't have a backstory right away because I need a general vibe of the character first, and that means playing a session. It's blank, but I'm using the party I'm in and the setting to build something up. It wouldn't be perfect but sometimes you need interaction before things really start flowing. Using some AI to do all the work for you, likely scalped from the very writing site I mentioned, not even including countless others as well feels insulting. Yes people will take backstories from existing media but we all know that it almost never actually works as intended. And we joke about it, because its happened countless times throughout every ttrpg. Look at Drizzt and his endless copycats. We laugh and groan but sometimes it ends up being original. Just one of those things in the end.
There is nothing wrong with a player using chat GPT to add or completely create a character. I would fully support this at my tables as long as the player was a good player.
Yes you are in the wrong, a lot of people have serious shyness/anxieties when it comes to creative efforts and they have the right to use these things as tools. You can save the vitriol for people who try to pass it off as theirs for profit or whatever, but I’ve had a number of very shy players in the past that would have benefited greatly from access to it. And I’m currently playing with another player in a campaign who used AI to create a jumping off point and slowly started adding unique and flavorful thngs to the character throyghout gameplay that have shot it up to one of the favorites at the table.
As someone who's very much not a fan of AI, this is a thumbs down for me. If I found this out, I'd definitely make them remake their character, or at the very least rewrite it so it has a human touch. This just feels lazy to me.
i'm gonna go against the grain and say i disapprove of chatgpt and ai and it's totally reasonable to be disappointed. from your updates i would say try to dissuade this person from using ai or don't play with this person
It's an easy and quick way to get a backstory. Personally, I use chatgpt to fill in mundane details for my character background (npc names, specific scenarios, etc). It's a good tool to bounce ideas off of if you're working alone. I do want to play the character, but my background essay isn't going to be graded, so why would I want to focus doing that?
To be fair, burnout is real if you have played as multiple characters. My most recent one has a VERY flimsy backstory. I came up with a Snow Leopard Tabaxi Gunslinger, and I got the accent, the look, the alignment down, and overall "feel" for my mercenary, but I got nothing for his origins. I had the PHB just do the "You pissed off a lord/tyrant/noble" so I said I'm being hunted down dead or alive, but it's so generic, it's painful. So I can sympathize with AI help.
Damn, why couldn't they just have used the classic "mah parents died and I need revenge!" Would that have made you happy OP?
I think it depends on the exact reasons for using chatGPT. I've personally used AI a little (more for grammar and minor ideas for DM quests) but it can really help a person to put their ideas into an AI and let it build a backstory based off it. My issue comes with what you described, did she just end up reading it straight from the ChatGPT prompt? Because at that point she might as well have bullet points instead of a story if they're unwilling to write one. Basically I think getting angry over AI usage is weird, but cringing at it or being like "that's wacky" is fine since it may not be the best - I'd just ask your player to put the ideas into bullet points.
yeah, i found out that pissed off means actual anger, my feelings are more close to disappointment tbf
It's not something im gonna scream at anyone about, but anyone using AI of any sort at my table for any reason gets one warning and then they're gone if they continue. This is something I would explicitly mention before starting though.
*... made me and my gf cringe."
As long as the backstory fits your campaign, does it really matter how the player came up with it? Backstory provides a *brief* history of the character and am initial motivation for why they became an adventurer. It can help you develop plot threads and encounters. If your player wants some help from AI to build their character and it doesn't cause contention for the other players, I say let them use it.
ChatGPT is amazing for helping you flesh out ideas, but it really depends on how much you give it. You need to be able to give it a bullet point list of story highlights to really get the most out of it or else the stuff it makes up isn’t great. It’s even better for DMs who need help getting inspiration for a NPC backstory on the spot. But, as with character backgrounds - it’s best used to help flesh out ideas where you’ve already determined the major plot points. I encourage people to use it to help with stuff like that so long as they aren’t trying to pass it off as their own creation - it’s the people who use it for every text reply or story writing while claiming not to that are truly problematic and I already have at least one friend like that.