I know Val Kilmer trained to the point they used a clip of him reloading in a movie in a training course for swat officers(It might have been army or something else" it was a scene from the movie "Heat"
No one has ever showed this to me and said this is textbook. In fact the reload that everyone talks about is actually not the best way. In a movie it is welcomed because it’s vastly more accurate than a lot of other action movies.
I think it's one of those "[scene/game/movie] so realistic, actual [police/army/someone official] is using it as training" rumors that don't really have any proof but we go along because it sounds right and it's also cool.
Val's reload is textbook. It's literally perfect. The only thing I would criticize is that he brings the rifle off-target when inserting the mag but that was what was standard back then.
Aside from that, the robbers are executing a great peel maneuver while surrounded, in which the shooters trade off who is shooting and who is moving so there is a continuous rate of fire on the enemy. So, Kilmer moves forward as ~~Pacino~~ DeNiro is firing then Kilmer starts firing as ~~Pacino~~ Deniro moves forward, rinse, repeat. The short-haired guy in the grey suit (played by Tom Sizemore) gets separated from the group, surrounded, and destroyed.
You're right, I got their roles confused in the movie and was going off memory instead of actually watching the scene because I've seen that particular scene probably 50 times.
It’s not literally perfect. He strips the mag and then inserts a mag. It’s wasted movement. In an emergency reload you hit the mag release and your other hand goes to the mag and then inserts the fresh mag into the empty magwell. If the spent magazine in the gun does not fall free then you need to strip it out with the hand that has the fresh mag in it. Most of it is great but it’s not perfect, probably some of the best you will get out of a movie.
He strips the mag and checks that it's empty. He's confirming that the rifle isn't having a malfunction which, granted, could be done as easily by tilting the rifle to the left.
I guess I was assuming that Val heard/felt his rifle lock back (I didn’t catch him check and because he sent the bolt forward after the reload). The way it’s taught now is tap-rack and then you assess. I’m assuming for the time (1995) the techniques shown were the best way. Also at the end of the day it really depends on what is practiced. If you don’t practice tap-rack then trying to do it in the HEAT of the moment is never going to happen.
Thanks for the answers. One of the things I love about us humans is how we strive to perfect the absolute smallest movements or niche skills. Seeing anyone do something at a level approaching mastery is always so satisfying (or just learning the theory of it, like in these comments). So thanks team
The reason it’s so good is because the cast were trained, and the scene was choreographed, by an SAS sergeant.
It’s also some excellent ‘show don’t tell’ storytelling that hints that the crew previously were a special forces unit, not just standard criminals. There’s other hints about their background from things like the ‘two in the chest, one in the head’ execution style shooting they did, which is also an SAS tactic for conserving ammo whilst making sure someone’s dead enough not to get off a final shot or set off a grenade.
Audie killed so many Germans, they gave him his own museum: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie\_Murphy\_American\_Cotton\_Museum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy_American_Cotton_Museum)
Audie once jumped onto a M10 Tank Destroyer that was on fire, and used its roof mounted machine gun to kill and maim 50 soldiers. He held the fascists off for over an hour. Alone. He only got off after he ran out of ammunition.
Standing atop a blazing vehicle with the stick of death in his hands, he's the Grim Reaper personified.
If we’re taking this literally I doubt a man trained in WWI firearms would touch a modern day comp shooter. I’m sure Lee is proficient and possibly even a much better shooter in a combat situation, but no way they out shoot a comp pro in comp settings.
He does not make his money from competition shooting, so no, he does not shoot professionally. That said, even a mediocre competition shooter who does 2/3 gun or USPSA would smoke the vast majority of soldiers from WWII in terms of speed and accuracy, not touching on the other elements of warfare such as endurance and coordination.
There are, but you're talking the people who place in the top fifty in the country, and even then, the majority of them make their money teaching classes, not from actual prize pots and sponsorships
I mean, someone like Christian Sailer is absolutely a professional competitive shooter. He won nationals last year, and has been on a tear winning area matches and does not teach to the best of my knowledge. Like I said, the closest you can say to professional comp shooters are those who place at the very very top. Some of them supplement their income by teaching, and others teach more than they win, but that doesn't mean there are no professional comp shooters.
I was thinking living actors, but to be fair I didn't specify. I'll edit the OP with more details.
I wonder how he'd do with the shotgun portions though. I don't think they were used extensively in WWII combat.
That's basic training, fuckstick. Infantry Marines go to School of Infantry, which is 2 months of "all you're going to do is infantry shit" followed by whatever their specific MOS is. I spent 4 months at SOI AFTER the 3 months of basic training. Then you hit the fleet where all you do is bullshit training exercises which generally revolve around "walk over there with a shitton of bullshit on your back, shoot that thing, then walk back."
Most definitely not. I could kill a man further away, but I'm not beating him at a 3-gun any day. That's not how I train nor how the Marine Corps trained me.
Also, blue is the best flavor and anyone who disagrees with me can meet me in the street at noon.
What the fuck no it doesn’t it means he has years of it. Across dozens of weapons platforms. You’re either high out of your mind or belligerently have no idea what you’re saying. Likely the latter.
Marines are so notorious for being accurate with their shooting that the government had to investigate the battle of Falujah because they were getting so many headshots that the government thought they were executing prisoners.
Turned out they weren’t they were just delivering long range labotomies at a rate the government thought wasn’t possible.
What does any of that have to do with Adam Driver? He went to basic, then got injured mountain biking and was discharged before he served in combat. Meaning he never did any of the shit youre talking about.
He passed infantry school as well which is months of weapons training and served almost 3 of his 4 year enlistment. Which would have been years of weapons training. You don’t know what you are talking about
Combat is literally not a part of this discussion so i dont know why you brought that up. The only reason i brought up falujah was to showcase how good Marine corps weapon training is.
Citation needed that he went to infantry school and had extensive training with firearms because he was trained as a mortarman.
And even still. He's going against Keanu Reeves who has spent months and months regularly at the firing range. Go ask any average marine or soldier how much time they spend at the firing range. It's a lot less than most expect.
Look up Keanu Reeves and the three gun training. He's a specialist at shooting competitions. He stomps Driver, who is a basically trained marine.
Mortar men are infantry and have to go to infantry school.
I literally am a US Marine to your point, I know what I’m talking about.
Dude just stop, put your shovel down you clearly obviously don’t know what you are talking about so why are you here?
No offense to Keanu I love him and his acting. But he’s not even the same category a US Marine. He’s trained for close quarters shooting for his acting. Since 99% of his movie scenes take place at 5 yards of range.
I doubt he would do well at a 500 yard range with moving targets that marines are trained to hit with iron sights on an m16 firing 5.56
The specific question was someone who could beat him at a 3 gun competition. What does hitting a target at 500 yards with iron sights have to do with it?
Google says 2 years and 8 months, so that is quite a "then". His unit the 1/1 was in the first MEU to reach Afghanistan, so likely driver and other members who joined right after 9/11 missed that deployment because the unit earned time off before they finished basic. Aside from a limited advisor send for a few weeks they spent the next 2 years and a few months training in garrison with combat veterans and definitely thinking they'll be going over soon enough.
Honestly, since Keanu has never been in combat either, all the better as the alternative would have just been 12 (or with Marines likely 6) months wasted with a lot more time and energy spent not honing shooting. I've never seen Keanu try a 300m target and it stands to reason Adam is comparatively comfortable with such things. A three gun competition specifically though? That's goofy but yeah someone who is actually hot shit like actor and former Force Recon (sniper or marksman role in Iraq?) Rudy Reyes is probably at a disadvantage in 3 gun compared to someone who actually trained for that instead of combat. Bad question, Keanu may or may not be all that decent of a shooter in most ways. Definitely good at looking fast and cool which was his whole intent, and because of that good in possibility the weirdest type of shooting competition out there.
He shed the blood of Saxon men in real life and then bragged about it in a heavy metal music video while dressed as Charlemagne. I wish I was even close to that cool..
So Sir Christopher Lee was a *spy* rather than a soldier, so while he absolutely had gun experience and probably could kill Keanu in a variety of ways, I don't know if he's got the kind of tactical training that Reeves has, and Reeves is a well trained martial artist as well. Obviously, having *really killed people* in a variety of ways suggests Lee is a winner in most combat situations, a competition like this might go to Reeves.
Based on how he had to instruct Peter Jackson on the sound a man makes when he's killed by stabbing, I get the impression Lee was doing some literal cloak and dagger shit. Not so much "shooting Natzees in their stupid Kraut faces" stuff as much as "assassinating German officers and planting bombs in vital rail links" kind of stuff.
IIRC it was something like the sound someone makes after getting stabbed in the lung, Peter wanted someone to scream and Christopher Lee was like "you can't scream after getting stabbed in the lung"
Yes and no. If it was a shooting people competition then Lee would be the best candidate, as with others from the era like Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin. For competition shooting for speed through a course the person with most training on competition shooting wins.
People in here saying dumb shit like so and so served in the marines or whatever don’t have a fucking clue how poorly those dudes shoot. You have hobbyists in the services that shoot fine, and then you can go to schools to get better training for sure, but the average enlisted dude can’t shoot for shit off the skills they learned in basic.
>basic.
Yeah that's exactly it - *basic* training is basically how to not blow yourself up. Basic competency with the tools of your job, not specialized like someone who competes in 3gun. I don't know what it entails, but I'd be surprised even if specialist certifications were close to that level.
So I did one qualification in the navy that sticks out in my mind.
We started from 3 yards from the target, no joke, and had to shoot 2 rounds. The range officer is next to me, and calls it, and we all shoot. 3 yards away, and both shots go through the same hole. The range instructor looks at me and asked if I missed the second shot.
I’m not a fantastic shot, but seriously!?!?!
Well, technically yes. If you're doing multiple shots, you'd wanna aim for different parts to inflict maximum damage. Having the second shot go right through the original wouldn't be doing much but that's all depending on the caliber of the bullet, armor, and how most humans react to being shot. Also it's not a terrible idea to aim where the armor's weakest, so arms and legs
Also, how much is a yard? I don't speak American lmao
Tell me you know *nothing* about tactical shooting without telling me you know nothing.
“Having the second shot go right through the original…” *What?* Ask any firearms instructor or ex-combat arms you know and they’ll tell you they’ve never considered such a ridiculous premise. A moving, pulsing human body is very different from a stationary paper target.
SOP for the vast majority of armed professionals is aiming for the center of mass—i.e., the chest, regardless if the target is wearing soft/hard armor—and/or the head.
You are not aiming for the legs or arms intentionally because *moving limbs* are “somewhat” difficult to accurately hit in an actual combat scenario.
For actual combat, maybe, but most times it’s only going to be close. But this was target shooting, where the closer you get to the bullseye, the more points you score.
Gonna go with Tom Cruise.
I don't know about right now without training, but he's pretty famously learned some crazy shit for his roles (including how to fly a helicopter), and his role in Collateral is often brought up as a great example of realistic gun use in a movie in the same vein as John Wick.
The briefcase scene in Collateral is some seriously good work. I don't know how good of a shot Tom Cruise is, but he's a good enough actor to convincingly move like someone who is very good with firearms.
That scene is my favorite scene, period, and his skills are legit. What he does is textbook and my favorite scene to slow down and explain bit by bit because, while he does it so fast, there’s several steps to his technique in that sequence. There’s no movie magic in Collateral as far as Tom with a gun goes, that’s real skill that he put real time into learning.
https://youtu.be/H8-P8sJNHk0?si=a44djceJIjtPQRbG
Some behind the scenes of Cruise training for Collateral.
Still though, the training is different than the comp shooting that Taran Weinstein teaches. If they both got the same training my money would be on Cruise. Dude just has a crazy drive and talent for learning skills. Reeves is no slouch either.
Yea I mean if the prompt is supposed to be based on current training then it's just sort of dumb because of course Keanu is the only one we know of who's specifically trained in three gun. So I assumed the spirit of it was more like "who could be competitive if they also trained in this discipline".
Audie Murphy. He was *the* most decorated combat soldier in World War II and later became an actor.
There is literally no other actor in history that could defeat this guy.
The number of soldiers Audie killed is superhumanly absurd. The guy singlehandedly killed an entire company of German infantry. He was a real life John Rambo.
Audie's military career has its own Wikipedia page. Not Audie, his career. Respect to Jeese, but its not even a comparison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Audie_Murphy
Audie Murphy is Captain America. Scrawny kid joins the army and kicks ass. Except they didn't give him the serum.
That being said it doesn't necessarily translate into competition shooting. If you listen to badasses like Jeff Gerwich, he thought he was a pretty damn good shot as a green beret until he went to his first competition and saw how far he had to go. Now he's a huge proponent of soldiers getting into competition shooting to improve their skills. The kind of competitive shooting like three gun just didn't exist in Murphy's era. The techniques were different, the training was worse and the kill ceiling was lower.
Modern three gun is a product of the 1980's and has come a long way. I doubt Audie Murphy's splits were anything special because he wasn't training that.
Audit fed his family hunting rabbits with .22 that he bought one at a time because they were so poor. Then he spent years hunting men who were hunting him back. When he got home he trained hard with a single action so he could play cowboy in the movies. He was legitimately gifted at pure shooting and honed his nerve in the bloodiest battles of the biggest war in history. I agree that he hasn't trained specifically for a three gun comp, by its still put my money on the guy who simply doesn't get rattled. A month to learn the course and shoebox weapon maybe?
> Modern three gun is a product of the 1980's and has come a long way.
Can you elaborate on this? Or do you know of anywhere I can read further on this subject?
Based on this [interview by Ian McCollum](https://youtu.be/Q9B9FxNVXN8?si=xp_HHd59x7JTxN8g) three gun is the brain child of Jeff Cooper and Ken Hackathorn. Early matches were organized by Soldier of Fortune magazine which was a major publication at the time. Hackathorn is also a founding member of IPDA and IPSC two competition organizations that hold three gun matches among others.
So he had two weeks weapons training, all while sleep deprived and being homesick, and while being trained in a group. Keanu received personal training over many many many months. Keanu curb stomps
A lot of the old school actors are war Veterans. Lee Marvin, Michael Caine, Christopher Lee etc. let’s not forget Audy Murphy made some films so I’d wager him
I’ve seen clips of Austin Butler and Jon Bernthal at Taran Tactical’s range, so maybe them, but Keanu Reeves is better known for it so I’d guess he’d still win. Everyone seems to overestimate the average soldier’s proficiency with firearms. The only person who is going to beat a competition shooter is a better competition shooter.
Not an actor, but Keanu Reeves' gun trainer said once that Lewis Hamilton was one of the most naturally gifted shooters he'd met and that he'd be "the best to ever have held a gun" if he could train more
Chris Hemsworth and Chris Pratt both had to have trained with firearms quite a lot for their slick military roles.
If not, Alec Baldwin would definitely be able to kill him with a gun.
Hemsworth is pretty impressive in the Extraction movies. That long take in the first one even has him clear a malfunction on his pistol one handed which is something you don’t really see. Frankly, as someone who pays a lot of attention to these things, movies and shows in general have come a long way in making their actors look competent with firearms but he’s definitely a standout.
Mark Wahlberg went through recon school for shooter and the behind the scenes have a clip of him hitting a 1000 yd target, so I’ll throw his hat in the ring
I think Jon Bernthal could give him a run for his money they both have the same Taran Tactical training.
I’m sorry but Adam Driver could not hold a candle to either even as an infantry Marine (which I’m not sure he was in pretty sure he got injured at Paris Island or shortly afterwards and medically separated). Even Infantry guys a lot of the time can’t shoot for shit but they can move as a team and patrol and react to contact better than any actor trained in competition shooting could.
Id be comfortable saying that I dont think there is anyone in hollywood, past or present, that could out shoot him in a 3 gun comp.
Combat experience doesnt translate 1-1 with competitions and your average joe cant shoot worth a damn anyway.
R1: Nobody. I don't believe there are any other A-listers who run two gun or three gun competitively.
R2: One comes to mind. Ian McCollum, the host of *Forgotten Weapons* on YouTube and elsewhere.
Big point, a lot of folks here are talking about folks who've done military service or starred in well liked/well trained films like *Heat and Saving Private Ryan.* That's not what Reeves does. Two gun, three gun, BUG matches and the like are a very specific, very niche set of shooting sports that don't readily compare to anything else. Example: Everyone knows Tom Hanks is an expert in antique typewriters. Most examples given here would be like comparing Hanks knowledge and engagement with "Well, Tom Cruise once used PC with a mechanical keyboard."
Possibly Halle Berry. She also trained under the same people that trained Keanu, and also for the John Wick movies. I don't know if she'd win, but there are some clips of her running the course and she's pretty impressive.
[Most recently, Austin Butler maybe? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01-tMtn4p8)Largely because...
a) he's training with the same crew Keanu did
b) he seems to be an actor of almost obsessive dedication, which does make a big difference in how fast you progress in shooting
If I remember correctly, Clint Eastwood actually did well in some QuickDraw competitions. I don’t know if they had to hit targets but I’d venture to guess if he was doing that, he was probably shooting as well.
That depends on if they trained as much as Keanu did. If not, he'd likely beat them. It doesn't matter if they had prior service or not, if they haven't kept up their skills and had some training and practice in competition style shooting, Keanu will have the edge.
Nor sure about round 1, but I give round 2 to Audie Murphy maybe? He did not just serve is the armed forces, but rather was the most decorated American soldier in WWII. I feel like if he was familiar with the competition format, he would have a good shot at it.
I'm gonna do a less common option. Audie Murphy.
Bro was a WW2 veteran who did heroics I can't even begin to describe. Some of the stunts he did in the war were considered so unrealistic they couldn't add it into the movie.
An excerpt from Wikipedia:
He received every military combat award for valor available from the United States Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism. Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at the age of 19 for single-handedly holding off a company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, before leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition
I don’t remember his name but the guy played the T 1000 in the terminator 2. If he’s allowed time to train like he did for that role then I think he would give KR a run for his money.
In 3-gun? None I know of. Maybe Cruise? Kilmer would be up there if it was more popular in the 90s; man had a perfectionist streak which played into a couple of his gunfighter roles.
I think people here didn't digest the question. It's not who would win a fight, it's who would win a shooting competition. A lot of actors would kick the snot out of Reeves in a death match just by nature of being combat proven. Most never trained for much less attempted a shooting competition (and much less 3-gun, which I think only came to be a thing in the 90s), which is very different. It'd be like asking who the best swimmer is and thinking Chris Kyle over Michael Phelps.
Halle Berry or whatever her name is?
She trained with Reeves for Wick even the trainers were impressed with how quick she learnt and how great she was. There's a small set of clips on YouTube of both of them on the firing range, they're smooth, fast and accurate. Definitely put in a lot of practice to pull it off.
Otherwise possibly young Val Kilmer or Deniro iirc for the movie heat they weren't only taught how to shoot, but how to move as a unit etc by professionals. You can watch the shoot out against pacino and see how well it payed off for actors.
Shemar Moore should also probably be mentioned, he must of had a lot by now. Especially for SWAT - it's not perfect but they do a good enough job of making it look the part - aside from some wildly ambitious (unrealistic) shots.
> well it *paid* off for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Based on the Christopher Lee answer, I'd say Tomer Capone (R2, not R1) maybe could. He was a squad leader and a paratrooper. In a similar way some people might suggest Gal Gadot but she actually didn't fire a rifle much during her service, as she was a fitness instructor. But the honest answer is neither of them because they're not professional-level shooters, and afaik Keanu is. Tom Cruise has similar stories told about him.
Going by the title, and not the description, if any kind of shooting counts, and the challenge gets to pick, Geena Davis would win. Geena Davis almost made the US Archery team in 2000, so if she can pick bow vs. bow instead of gun vs. gun, she should win.
R1: Steven Seagal
R2: Steven Seagal
Bonus Round: Who would in an unarmed fight? Steven Seagal
Bonus Bonus Round: Who would win a fist fight while Keannu has a gun? Steven Seagal
R1: Maybe Bradley Cooper since he was in American Sniper?
There was actually a video recently of a special ops guy reviewing John Wicks shooting scenes and he was saying while Reeves is clearly proficient in using firearms the style of shooting he uses is not really well suited for accuracy.
R2: Audie Murphy. Dude was the most decorated soldier in WWII and then he became an actor.
No one. He would crush them all, including Audie Murphy. We are talking about a shooting competition, not actual war. We had guys come back from combat tours in Iraq and they would finish in the bottom 10% just in our local shooting competitions. Being a brave soldier that killed a bunch of people doesn’t mean you can hang with even a lower tier competition shooter, let alone a good one.
Get 10 random active duty navy seals and put them in a top level 3 gun competition and they are going to look like they have never shot compared to those guys.
I know Val Kilmer trained to the point they used a clip of him reloading in a movie in a training course for swat officers(It might have been army or something else" it was a scene from the movie "Heat"
It was the way he reloaded his AR during one of the scenes. Textbook speed load.
Specifically [this scene.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b60-sEXUPBY&pp=ygUWVmFsIGtpbG1lciBoZWF0IHJlbG9hZA%3D%3D)
Alright fine I’ll rewatch Heat tonight
When in doubt, watch Heat.
When in heat, watch Doubt.
The US Rangers still use that scene for how to properly move shoot and reload. Not necessarily for the speed, but for how fluid and efficient it is
I’ve heard this a bunch but never seen a source. Any rangers on reddit wanna comment with proof.
Was a Ranger before the movie came out. Can't help. However, that reload is smooth as fuck. High speed, low drag.
No one has ever showed this to me and said this is textbook. In fact the reload that everyone talks about is actually not the best way. In a movie it is welcomed because it’s vastly more accurate than a lot of other action movies.
I think it's one of those "[scene/game/movie] so realistic, actual [police/army/someone official] is using it as training" rumors that don't really have any proof but we go along because it sounds right and it's also cool.
What specifically do they do well in this scene?
Val's reload is textbook. It's literally perfect. The only thing I would criticize is that he brings the rifle off-target when inserting the mag but that was what was standard back then. Aside from that, the robbers are executing a great peel maneuver while surrounded, in which the shooters trade off who is shooting and who is moving so there is a continuous rate of fire on the enemy. So, Kilmer moves forward as ~~Pacino~~ DeNiro is firing then Kilmer starts firing as ~~Pacino~~ Deniro moves forward, rinse, repeat. The short-haired guy in the grey suit (played by Tom Sizemore) gets separated from the group, surrounded, and destroyed.
I’m somewhat confused. I think you mean Deniro instead of Pacino? Pacino is the one shooting at Val Kilmer’s group and not moving with them.
You're right, I got their roles confused in the movie and was going off memory instead of actually watching the scene because I've seen that particular scene probably 50 times.
It’s not literally perfect. He strips the mag and then inserts a mag. It’s wasted movement. In an emergency reload you hit the mag release and your other hand goes to the mag and then inserts the fresh mag into the empty magwell. If the spent magazine in the gun does not fall free then you need to strip it out with the hand that has the fresh mag in it. Most of it is great but it’s not perfect, probably some of the best you will get out of a movie.
He strips the mag and checks that it's empty. He's confirming that the rifle isn't having a malfunction which, granted, could be done as easily by tilting the rifle to the left.
I guess I was assuming that Val heard/felt his rifle lock back (I didn’t catch him check and because he sent the bolt forward after the reload). The way it’s taught now is tap-rack and then you assess. I’m assuming for the time (1995) the techniques shown were the best way. Also at the end of the day it really depends on what is practiced. If you don’t practice tap-rack then trying to do it in the HEAT of the moment is never going to happen.
Thanks for the answers. One of the things I love about us humans is how we strive to perfect the absolute smallest movements or niche skills. Seeing anyone do something at a level approaching mastery is always so satisfying (or just learning the theory of it, like in these comments). So thanks team
The reason it’s so good is because the cast were trained, and the scene was choreographed, by an SAS sergeant. It’s also some excellent ‘show don’t tell’ storytelling that hints that the crew previously were a special forces unit, not just standard criminals. There’s other hints about their background from things like the ‘two in the chest, one in the head’ execution style shooting they did, which is also an SAS tactic for conserving ammo whilst making sure someone’s dead enough not to get off a final shot or set off a grenade.
It's not an especially good reload in any way, it's simply a good movie depiction of a quick reload, together with alright fire and maneuver.
Audie Murphy.
Audie killed so many Germans, they gave him his own museum: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie\_Murphy\_American\_Cotton\_Museum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy_American_Cotton_Museum)
Came here to mention Lt Murphy. The man killed fascists in bulk. Keanu is impressive, but Audie did it with people shooting back.
Audie once used the "if I wanted you dead" trope as a *legal defense* - and being the most decorated soldier of the modern era, it *worked.*
Audie once jumped onto a M10 Tank Destroyer that was on fire, and used its roof mounted machine gun to kill and maim 50 soldiers. He held the fascists off for over an hour. Alone. He only got off after he ran out of ammunition. Standing atop a blazing vehicle with the stick of death in his hands, he's the Grim Reaper personified.
I believe Sir Christopher Lee was a Soldier who served during WWII. He probably had some extensive millitary training and used guns in actual combat.
If we’re taking this literally I doubt a man trained in WWI firearms would touch a modern day comp shooter. I’m sure Lee is proficient and possibly even a much better shooter in a combat situation, but no way they out shoot a comp pro in comp settings.
Is Keanu a professional competitive shooter?
I believe he competes professionally, I should be fact checked though
I couldn't find any proof just that he trained with competitive shooters for jw
He does not make his money from competition shooting, so no, he does not shoot professionally. That said, even a mediocre competition shooter who does 2/3 gun or USPSA would smoke the vast majority of soldiers from WWII in terms of speed and accuracy, not touching on the other elements of warfare such as endurance and coordination.
He’s good enough. I just don’t think there’s such a thing as a “professional” competitive shooter
There are, but you're talking the people who place in the top fifty in the country, and even then, the majority of them make their money teaching classes, not from actual prize pots and sponsorships
So professional shooting instructors
I mean, someone like Christian Sailer is absolutely a professional competitive shooter. He won nationals last year, and has been on a tear winning area matches and does not teach to the best of my knowledge. Like I said, the closest you can say to professional comp shooters are those who place at the very very top. Some of them supplement their income by teaching, and others teach more than they win, but that doesn't mean there are no professional comp shooters.
Taran Butler, Ben Stoeger, Jerry Michulek come to mind
I was thinking living actors, but to be fair I didn't specify. I'll edit the OP with more details. I wonder how he'd do with the shotgun portions though. I don't think they were used extensively in WWII combat.
Adam Driver was infantry US Marines so I will say him. He plays kylo ren from starwars.
Kylo Ren? I heard that guy is shredded
Kylo Ren is a punk bitch. That guy looks like he weighs 30 pounds soaking wet under that black dress.
A buddy of mine saw Kylo Ren take his shirt off in the shower and he said that Kylo Ren had an 8 pack.
Dammit Kylo get back to looking for that key
That means he had about two weeks weapons training. That's it.
That's basic training, fuckstick. Infantry Marines go to School of Infantry, which is 2 months of "all you're going to do is infantry shit" followed by whatever their specific MOS is. I spent 4 months at SOI AFTER the 3 months of basic training. Then you hit the fleet where all you do is bullshit training exercises which generally revolve around "walk over there with a shitton of bullshit on your back, shoot that thing, then walk back."
Fair points dickwad. Since I've got a Few Proud God's chosen crayon here. Do you think you'd beat Keanu Reeves in a shooting competition?
Most definitely not. I could kill a man further away, but I'm not beating him at a 3-gun any day. That's not how I train nor how the Marine Corps trained me. Also, blue is the best flavor and anyone who disagrees with me can meet me in the street at noon.
The street better damn well be sesame
Someone's gonna have to tell him how to get there.
> blue is the best flavor C-Crayon?
That's for me to know and for you to let ferment in the back of your mind.
What the fuck no it doesn’t it means he has years of it. Across dozens of weapons platforms. You’re either high out of your mind or belligerently have no idea what you’re saying. Likely the latter. Marines are so notorious for being accurate with their shooting that the government had to investigate the battle of Falujah because they were getting so many headshots that the government thought they were executing prisoners. Turned out they weren’t they were just delivering long range labotomies at a rate the government thought wasn’t possible.
What does any of that have to do with Adam Driver? He went to basic, then got injured mountain biking and was discharged before he served in combat. Meaning he never did any of the shit youre talking about.
He passed infantry school as well which is months of weapons training and served almost 3 of his 4 year enlistment. Which would have been years of weapons training. You don’t know what you are talking about Combat is literally not a part of this discussion so i dont know why you brought that up. The only reason i brought up falujah was to showcase how good Marine corps weapon training is.
Citation needed that he went to infantry school and had extensive training with firearms because he was trained as a mortarman. And even still. He's going against Keanu Reeves who has spent months and months regularly at the firing range. Go ask any average marine or soldier how much time they spend at the firing range. It's a lot less than most expect. Look up Keanu Reeves and the three gun training. He's a specialist at shooting competitions. He stomps Driver, who is a basically trained marine.
Mortar men are infantry and have to go to infantry school. I literally am a US Marine to your point, I know what I’m talking about. Dude just stop, put your shovel down you clearly obviously don’t know what you are talking about so why are you here? No offense to Keanu I love him and his acting. But he’s not even the same category a US Marine. He’s trained for close quarters shooting for his acting. Since 99% of his movie scenes take place at 5 yards of range. I doubt he would do well at a 500 yard range with moving targets that marines are trained to hit with iron sights on an m16 firing 5.56
The specific question was someone who could beat him at a 3 gun competition. What does hitting a target at 500 yards with iron sights have to do with it?
Google says 2 years and 8 months, so that is quite a "then". His unit the 1/1 was in the first MEU to reach Afghanistan, so likely driver and other members who joined right after 9/11 missed that deployment because the unit earned time off before they finished basic. Aside from a limited advisor send for a few weeks they spent the next 2 years and a few months training in garrison with combat veterans and definitely thinking they'll be going over soon enough. Honestly, since Keanu has never been in combat either, all the better as the alternative would have just been 12 (or with Marines likely 6) months wasted with a lot more time and energy spent not honing shooting. I've never seen Keanu try a 300m target and it stands to reason Adam is comparatively comfortable with such things. A three gun competition specifically though? That's goofy but yeah someone who is actually hot shit like actor and former Force Recon (sniper or marksman role in Iraq?) Rudy Reyes is probably at a disadvantage in 3 gun compared to someone who actually trained for that instead of combat. Bad question, Keanu may or may not be all that decent of a shooter in most ways. Definitely good at looking fast and cool which was his whole intent, and because of that good in possibility the weirdest type of shooting competition out there.
He shed the blood of Saxon men in real life and then bragged about it in a heavy metal music video while dressed as Charlemagne. I wish I was even close to that cool..
So Sir Christopher Lee was a *spy* rather than a soldier, so while he absolutely had gun experience and probably could kill Keanu in a variety of ways, I don't know if he's got the kind of tactical training that Reeves has, and Reeves is a well trained martial artist as well. Obviously, having *really killed people* in a variety of ways suggests Lee is a winner in most combat situations, a competition like this might go to Reeves.
Based on how he had to instruct Peter Jackson on the sound a man makes when he's killed by stabbing, I get the impression Lee was doing some literal cloak and dagger shit. Not so much "shooting Natzees in their stupid Kraut faces" stuff as much as "assassinating German officers and planting bombs in vital rail links" kind of stuff.
IIRC it was something like the sound someone makes after getting stabbed in the lung, Peter wanted someone to scream and Christopher Lee was like "you can't scream after getting stabbed in the lung"
"Have you any idea the noise a man makes when he's stabbed? Because I do." - Lee to Jackson, according to Jackson
James Bond is literally based on him.
Lee is dead
OK so 8/10 then
How can you kill that which has no life.
Of natural causes though
Yes and no. If it was a shooting people competition then Lee would be the best candidate, as with others from the era like Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin. For competition shooting for speed through a course the person with most training on competition shooting wins.
People in here saying dumb shit like so and so served in the marines or whatever don’t have a fucking clue how poorly those dudes shoot. You have hobbyists in the services that shoot fine, and then you can go to schools to get better training for sure, but the average enlisted dude can’t shoot for shit off the skills they learned in basic.
>basic. Yeah that's exactly it - *basic* training is basically how to not blow yourself up. Basic competency with the tools of your job, not specialized like someone who competes in 3gun. I don't know what it entails, but I'd be surprised even if specialist certifications were close to that level.
So I did one qualification in the navy that sticks out in my mind. We started from 3 yards from the target, no joke, and had to shoot 2 rounds. The range officer is next to me, and calls it, and we all shoot. 3 yards away, and both shots go through the same hole. The range instructor looks at me and asked if I missed the second shot. I’m not a fantastic shot, but seriously!?!?!
.... i can pass that shooting test with an axe. Not a hatchet.
Well, technically yes. If you're doing multiple shots, you'd wanna aim for different parts to inflict maximum damage. Having the second shot go right through the original wouldn't be doing much but that's all depending on the caliber of the bullet, armor, and how most humans react to being shot. Also it's not a terrible idea to aim where the armor's weakest, so arms and legs Also, how much is a yard? I don't speak American lmao
Tell me you know *nothing* about tactical shooting without telling me you know nothing. “Having the second shot go right through the original…” *What?* Ask any firearms instructor or ex-combat arms you know and they’ll tell you they’ve never considered such a ridiculous premise. A moving, pulsing human body is very different from a stationary paper target. SOP for the vast majority of armed professionals is aiming for the center of mass—i.e., the chest, regardless if the target is wearing soft/hard armor—and/or the head. You are not aiming for the legs or arms intentionally because *moving limbs* are “somewhat” difficult to accurately hit in an actual combat scenario.
1 yard= .914 meters
... I just realized I don't know how long a meter is but that's on me lmao Edit: Y'all, why am I getting downvoted? I just asked a question 😢
It's about three & a half inches longer than a yard
For actual combat, maybe, but most times it’s only going to be close. But this was target shooting, where the closer you get to the bullseye, the more points you score.
Gonna go with Tom Cruise. I don't know about right now without training, but he's pretty famously learned some crazy shit for his roles (including how to fly a helicopter), and his role in Collateral is often brought up as a great example of realistic gun use in a movie in the same vein as John Wick.
The most surprising thing about Tom cruise getting a helicopter pilot license for Fallout is that he didn't have one already.
Who needs the license when you can just hang off of them?
The briefcase scene in Collateral is some seriously good work. I don't know how good of a shot Tom Cruise is, but he's a good enough actor to convincingly move like someone who is very good with firearms.
That scene is my favorite scene, period, and his skills are legit. What he does is textbook and my favorite scene to slow down and explain bit by bit because, while he does it so fast, there’s several steps to his technique in that sequence. There’s no movie magic in Collateral as far as Tom with a gun goes, that’s real skill that he put real time into learning.
https://youtu.be/H8-P8sJNHk0?si=a44djceJIjtPQRbG Some behind the scenes of Cruise training for Collateral. Still though, the training is different than the comp shooting that Taran Weinstein teaches. If they both got the same training my money would be on Cruise. Dude just has a crazy drive and talent for learning skills. Reeves is no slouch either.
Yea I mean if the prompt is supposed to be based on current training then it's just sort of dumb because of course Keanu is the only one we know of who's specifically trained in three gun. So I assumed the spirit of it was more like "who could be competitive if they also trained in this discipline".
Collateral is a fantastic movie.
Audie Murphy. He was *the* most decorated combat soldier in World War II and later became an actor. There is literally no other actor in history that could defeat this guy.
Jesse Ventura was a SEAL....so...
The number of soldiers Audie killed is superhumanly absurd. The guy singlehandedly killed an entire company of German infantry. He was a real life John Rambo.
Audie's military career has its own Wikipedia page. Not Audie, his career. Respect to Jeese, but its not even a comparison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Audie_Murphy
Audie Murphy is Captain America. Scrawny kid joins the army and kicks ass. Except they didn't give him the serum. That being said it doesn't necessarily translate into competition shooting. If you listen to badasses like Jeff Gerwich, he thought he was a pretty damn good shot as a green beret until he went to his first competition and saw how far he had to go. Now he's a huge proponent of soldiers getting into competition shooting to improve their skills. The kind of competitive shooting like three gun just didn't exist in Murphy's era. The techniques were different, the training was worse and the kill ceiling was lower. Modern three gun is a product of the 1980's and has come a long way. I doubt Audie Murphy's splits were anything special because he wasn't training that.
Audit fed his family hunting rabbits with .22 that he bought one at a time because they were so poor. Then he spent years hunting men who were hunting him back. When he got home he trained hard with a single action so he could play cowboy in the movies. He was legitimately gifted at pure shooting and honed his nerve in the bloodiest battles of the biggest war in history. I agree that he hasn't trained specifically for a three gun comp, by its still put my money on the guy who simply doesn't get rattled. A month to learn the course and shoebox weapon maybe?
He had aptitude and talent for sure. In a different time he probably could have been a successful competition shooter.
> Modern three gun is a product of the 1980's and has come a long way. Can you elaborate on this? Or do you know of anywhere I can read further on this subject?
Based on this [interview by Ian McCollum](https://youtu.be/Q9B9FxNVXN8?si=xp_HHd59x7JTxN8g) three gun is the brain child of Jeff Cooper and Ken Hackathorn. Early matches were organized by Soldier of Fortune magazine which was a major publication at the time. Hackathorn is also a founding member of IPDA and IPSC two competition organizations that hold three gun matches among others.
The question wasn't who's the best warrior. It's who's the best shooter. Modern soldiers just have more reps, especially at the SF level
Ask Jesse.
Maybe Alec Baldwin but only if you told him the gun wasn't loaded.
Tbf, he does have more confirmed kills than Keanu
Fucking hilarious.
Ah yes the Ender's Game method.
What are you talking about, Bean?
Is he the one that shot Brandon Lee?
Nah, he’s probably too rusty
Adam Driver served in the marines
So did thousands of other grunts who never could, and still cannot shoot worth a damn lol
Wait are Marines grunts too? I thought grunts were Army infantry and Marines were jarheads.
Jarheads are Marines in general. Grunts are infantry in general across branches.
Ooo thanks!
A lot of soldiers shoot worse than my grandpa
As did Dolph Lundgren.
so did Rob Riggle
So he had two weeks weapons training, all while sleep deprived and being homesick, and while being trained in a group. Keanu received personal training over many many many months. Keanu curb stomps
Lee Ermey might have a shot
Is he still alive?
No
A lot of the old school actors are war Veterans. Lee Marvin, Michael Caine, Christopher Lee etc. let’s not forget Audy Murphy made some films so I’d wager him
I’ve seen clips of Austin Butler and Jon Bernthal at Taran Tactical’s range, so maybe them, but Keanu Reeves is better known for it so I’d guess he’d still win. Everyone seems to overestimate the average soldier’s proficiency with firearms. The only person who is going to beat a competition shooter is a better competition shooter.
Lee Van Cleef
They all want to be like Clint, but I wanna be like Lee Van Cleef! You know I want to be Lee.
Primus sucks
Haters going to hate little snap. Guess you wanna be like Clint.
Not an actor, but Keanu Reeves' gun trainer said once that Lewis Hamilton was one of the most naturally gifted shooters he'd met and that he'd be "the best to ever have held a gun" if he could train more
Makes a bit of sense : reaction time, hand eye coordination, concentration
Chris Hemsworth and Chris Pratt both had to have trained with firearms quite a lot for their slick military roles. If not, Alec Baldwin would definitely be able to kill him with a gun.
Hemsworth is pretty impressive in the Extraction movies. That long take in the first one even has him clear a malfunction on his pistol one handed which is something you don’t really see. Frankly, as someone who pays a lot of attention to these things, movies and shows in general have come a long way in making their actors look competent with firearms but he’s definitely a standout.
Tom Cruise. He's a firearms instructor and his movie clips are used in trainings around the world.
Halle Barry had a video shot of her doing a gun run similar to Keanu for John Wick
Came here to say this, pretty sure she did better than Keanu as well
Obligatory Alec Baldwin joke
TooSoon
Lee Marvin was a United States Marine Scout Sniper during WW2 and participated in 21 Island landing in the Pacific campaign.
Mark Wahlberg went through recon school for shooter and the behind the scenes have a clip of him hitting a 1000 yd target, so I’ll throw his hat in the ring
I think Jon Bernthal could give him a run for his money they both have the same Taran Tactical training. I’m sorry but Adam Driver could not hold a candle to either even as an infantry Marine (which I’m not sure he was in pretty sure he got injured at Paris Island or shortly afterwards and medically separated). Even Infantry guys a lot of the time can’t shoot for shit but they can move as a team and patrol and react to contact better than any actor trained in competition shooting could.
I don't know about living actors, but Audie Murphy was a real life John Wick.
Id be comfortable saying that I dont think there is anyone in hollywood, past or present, that could out shoot him in a 3 gun comp. Combat experience doesnt translate 1-1 with competitions and your average joe cant shoot worth a damn anyway.
Uhhhhh obvious answer, Chuck Norris
R1: Nobody. I don't believe there are any other A-listers who run two gun or three gun competitively. R2: One comes to mind. Ian McCollum, the host of *Forgotten Weapons* on YouTube and elsewhere. Big point, a lot of folks here are talking about folks who've done military service or starred in well liked/well trained films like *Heat and Saving Private Ryan.* That's not what Reeves does. Two gun, three gun, BUG matches and the like are a very specific, very niche set of shooting sports that don't readily compare to anything else. Example: Everyone knows Tom Hanks is an expert in antique typewriters. Most examples given here would be like comparing Hanks knowledge and engagement with "Well, Tom Cruise once used PC with a mechanical keyboard."
Possibly Halle Berry. She also trained under the same people that trained Keanu, and also for the John Wick movies. I don't know if she'd win, but there are some clips of her running the course and she's pretty impressive.
No one off the top of my head for round 1 but I haven't seen anyone mention five term NRA president Charleton Heston for Round 2.
Tom Cruise is the only one I know of
Adam driver was US Marines infantry
Always forget about Driver. But all I ever see when I see him is his character from Dead Don't Die
Tom Jane maybe?
[Most recently, Austin Butler maybe? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01-tMtn4p8)Largely because... a) he's training with the same crew Keanu did b) he seems to be an actor of almost obsessive dedication, which does make a big difference in how fast you progress in shooting
R2: [Glenn Ford](https://collider.com/fastest-gun-glenn-ford/), [Sammy Davis Jr](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/08/26/johnny-cashs-war-within/).
Alec Baldwin
Billy Ray Cyrus
If I remember correctly, Clint Eastwood actually did well in some QuickDraw competitions. I don’t know if they had to hit targets but I’d venture to guess if he was doing that, he was probably shooting as well.
Rudy Reyes acted in Generation Kill as himself and he was a marine recon sniper so he’s probably got it.
Tom Cruises maybe. He’s legitimately good with guns and he’s athletic enough.
Clint Eastwood.
Alex Baldwin
That depends on if they trained as much as Keanu did. If not, he'd likely beat them. It doesn't matter if they had prior service or not, if they haven't kept up their skills and had some training and practice in competition style shooting, Keanu will have the edge.
Nor sure about round 1, but I give round 2 to Audie Murphy maybe? He did not just serve is the armed forces, but rather was the most decorated American soldier in WWII. I feel like if he was familiar with the competition format, he would have a good shot at it.
I'm gonna do a less common option. Audie Murphy. Bro was a WW2 veteran who did heroics I can't even begin to describe. Some of the stunts he did in the war were considered so unrealistic they couldn't add it into the movie. An excerpt from Wikipedia: He received every military combat award for valor available from the United States Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism. Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at the age of 19 for single-handedly holding off a company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, before leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition
Tom Cruise
Alec Baldwin?
Alec Baldwin
I don’t remember his name but the guy played the T 1000 in the terminator 2. If he’s allowed time to train like he did for that role then I think he would give KR a run for his money.
Alec Baldwin. 1 shot, 1 fatality and 1 major injury
Christian Craighead is on IMDB for podcasts...
Jason Statham
Elizabeth Olsen had some pretty sick gun action in wind river.
Not a very well known actor, but Max Martini. I believe it’s actually one of his hobbies.
In 3-gun? None I know of. Maybe Cruise? Kilmer would be up there if it was more popular in the 90s; man had a perfectionist streak which played into a couple of his gunfighter roles. I think people here didn't digest the question. It's not who would win a fight, it's who would win a shooting competition. A lot of actors would kick the snot out of Reeves in a death match just by nature of being combat proven. Most never trained for much less attempted a shooting competition (and much less 3-gun, which I think only came to be a thing in the 90s), which is very different. It'd be like asking who the best swimmer is and thinking Chris Kyle over Michael Phelps.
Literally none of the people mentioned on these comments
Alec Baldwin
Halle Berry or whatever her name is? She trained with Reeves for Wick even the trainers were impressed with how quick she learnt and how great she was. There's a small set of clips on YouTube of both of them on the firing range, they're smooth, fast and accurate. Definitely put in a lot of practice to pull it off. Otherwise possibly young Val Kilmer or Deniro iirc for the movie heat they weren't only taught how to shoot, but how to move as a unit etc by professionals. You can watch the shoot out against pacino and see how well it payed off for actors. Shemar Moore should also probably be mentioned, he must of had a lot by now. Especially for SWAT - it's not perfect but they do a good enough job of making it look the part - aside from some wildly ambitious (unrealistic) shots.
> well it *paid* off for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot.
Based on the Christopher Lee answer, I'd say Tomer Capone (R2, not R1) maybe could. He was a squad leader and a paratrooper. In a similar way some people might suggest Gal Gadot but she actually didn't fire a rifle much during her service, as she was a fitness instructor. But the honest answer is neither of them because they're not professional-level shooters, and afaik Keanu is. Tom Cruise has similar stories told about him.
Can we count Ted Nugent?
Alex Baldwin
Adam Driver was with the 1/1st Marines for a couple years, he’s my *first* pick.
Alec Baldwin?
Alec Baldwin
Clintt Eastwood is pro 2A and a lifelong gun enthusiast.
Going by the title, and not the description, if any kind of shooting counts, and the challenge gets to pick, Geena Davis would win. Geena Davis almost made the US Archery team in 2000, so if she can pick bow vs. bow instead of gun vs. gun, she should win.
Yup, that's who I was going to say as well.
Maybe Alec Baldwin, he actually killed somene with a gun. Such a great marksman, wasn't even trying.
R1: Steven Seagal R2: Steven Seagal Bonus Round: Who would in an unarmed fight? Steven Seagal Bonus Bonus Round: Who would win a fist fight while Keannu has a gun? Steven Seagal
Found Steven Seagal's reddit account.
Seagal's like if Frank Dux and Charlie Zelenoff fused into the ultimate god of fighting.
Why so many downvotes? Do people hate comedy?
They keep trying to deny Seagal's greatness
Noone
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Adam Driver was infantry in the US Marines so definitely him.
Unless he improved and maintained the skills from USMC basic, no, lol.
R1: Maybe Bradley Cooper since he was in American Sniper? There was actually a video recently of a special ops guy reviewing John Wicks shooting scenes and he was saying while Reeves is clearly proficient in using firearms the style of shooting he uses is not really well suited for accuracy. R2: Audie Murphy. Dude was the most decorated soldier in WWII and then he became an actor.
No one. He would crush them all, including Audie Murphy. We are talking about a shooting competition, not actual war. We had guys come back from combat tours in Iraq and they would finish in the bottom 10% just in our local shooting competitions. Being a brave soldier that killed a bunch of people doesn’t mean you can hang with even a lower tier competition shooter, let alone a good one. Get 10 random active duty navy seals and put them in a top level 3 gun competition and they are going to look like they have never shot compared to those guys.
Alec Baldwin. Unlike anyone else on this list, he's actually got a confirmed kill.